rigorousintuition.ca

In the last few days I tried to complete a reasonable post on Mind Control, for the ISraeli readership. I received a lot of help and advice here, and tried to use it. I came up with a 3 page long intro, and reading it, I am sure it will just not "do it" or penetrate the denial. I am frustrated. Another incident in my blog these days...in response to my previous post on NWD 101 (another attempt to introduce new stuff for ISraelis) I attracted the wrath of another blogger, rather established one who commented on this post that it is strange that a woman is interested in conspiracies, and so forth making it seem as though this is indicative of being "a loonie", and an "unfeminine" woman. Later, the next day he posted somehting about the protocols of the elders of zion, one version in Hebrew and another in English. i commented to him that the two versions differ greatly and is he giving us an illustration of how Israelis insulate information from foreigners. He was upset and next thing he published an entire post about ME, trying to imply that I am a bit "antisemitic" myself, self hating jew and most of all, dealing with issues that don't agree with being a woman or a lady. In his words :you must be the only woman who is interested in conspiracies, usually this is done only by men "with very distinct profile". And then he concludes "does that mean that women are starting to get into this field as well ?". <br>Eventually, the little storm quieted down. However, I was left with a chilling effect on how much I can write about those issues. For the time being I am suspending my MC post, until I can some up with a strategy to write it without alienting the readers AND incurring the wrath of the establishment.<br>A good feedback, though, came from a professor of science and nano technology who suggested I write something about "non lethal weapons" and on ethical problems in Israel, with a focus on the need to legislate against human experiments in non medical context. He suggested that he will add his comments to mine. This is important, but its not what I meant to do. <br>Can you imagine there is not even ONE person in ISrael who alleged SRA or MC ? or RA ? let alone websites like Lynn's with testimony of victims ? I guess for israeli women this would mean "they are not feminine enough" which is very chilling...<br> <p></p><i></i>

I've seen a few less than complimentary posts about Jeff and this blog, but the quality of his writing speaks for itself. Critics that that start with name calling and personal attacks just don't carry much weight. Especially if they start raving about the tired old Protocols nonsense. Hopefully your troll will go away if you don't feed him =)<br><br>I would agree with the prof who suggested starting with the human testing issues. There are plenty of 'official' sources that you can use to show your readers that governments have and probably still do sometimes treat people as human guinea pigs, and it overlaps the MC issues.<br><br>There is a lot of speculation and not much verifiable stuff about MC that I'm aware of (MKUltra was 50 years ago). So it may be difficult to explore those topics convincingly just on their own. Some of the most disturbing recent survivor testimony is from the US radiation testing hearings in the 90s.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

It's your blog. Remove the jerk. Whoever it is, is very successfully pulling your string. The other one (the professor) is the opposite kind of jerk; sounds sincere, suggests that you not deal with the very subjects that you are trying to bring out.<br><br>"Not feminine enough"? I always thought of Isreal as one of the few countries where women were equal, kibbutzers, military, and so on. But not in thought?<br><br>Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you're being more than trolled; you're being controlled. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

How about posting it here with a LINK to your blog?<br><br>The fact is that agents of the extreme right are watching this blog and all of us very closely. As an Israeli "dissident" of sorts you too will become a target of provocateurs and agents of the extreme right, especially those in your own country who are generally much more alert and active than the US operatives because there is more at stake and there is more idealogy and history in the mix of political conflict.<br><br>In Israel it is a fight for survival. In the US it is a fight for the survival of Democracy. It is not so in your face here and the provocateurs can be a little more laid back and simply watch and gather intel on all of us.<br><br>I see my role as trying to "turn" intel operatives by my knowledge of their inside thinking and to convince them that not only are they supporting crimes against humanity, but that they are being used and are merely the chattel of their handlers. Most in our intel know that already and are actually being scrubbed out by the BFEE and Porter Goss as we speak. But in Israel there are enough patriotic "true believers" as well as religious fundamentalists who do see the sacred or spiritual message of the Torah and the Prophets, but only take the "logos" literally as they are led by corrupt political-religious institutions and self-righteous hypocrites. We have the same problem here, but generally all the fundie Christian "leaders" KNOW they are hypocrites while in Israel, my experience has been, that they (many fundamentalists) truly believe the violent fluff they are fed by their manipulators and hence we end up with the assassination of Rabin, for example.<br><br>So tread cautiously.<br><br>It is impossible to know whether your antagonists are sincere or are merely manipulating you (or are simply loonie) or are agents trying to silence you.<br><br>These are choices you must make in the fight for democracy and freedom.<br><br>I made up my mind a long time ago that for my children's sake, and the lives of many children, I would give my life and no longer fear the agents of evil in the fight for peaceful and nonviolent change through wisdom and knowledge.<br><br>Hannah Arendt pointed it out so well: those who resisted the Nazis and ran away instead of cooperating had a much better chance of survival than those who got on the trains. I think her numbers (from "Eichmann in Jerusalem") were a 10% survival rate for those who went willingly and a 50% survival rate for those who went underground or resisted.<br><br>Maybe the odds are awful wither way. But my position is that we must stand up and speak the truth and NOT be like the "good Jews" and "Good Germans" in 1932 Germany who hoped for the best and went along to get along and ended up in a pit of death with their faces ripped open and their familes exterminated.<br><br>Let us see what it is you are saying and join in. Then let the voices of truth be heard.<br><br>Be not afraid. Truth is the Comforter.<br> <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Psychology is a very broad science, and what you are attempting is jumping in at the very deepest, least understood, murkiest end of the pool. Perhaps you could back up a bit to something less complicated. Have you considered studying cults? Most people accept their existance, and probably would be more open to learning more about how cults draw in converts through the process of thought reform. Lifton is a great person to start with on this subject.<br><br>Here is an informative site I found on a quick search, although I won't vouch for it until I have read it through. It's possible that it's a Christian site, but the info looks pretty good on a brief scan.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://changingminds.org/techniques/conversion/lifton_thought_reform.htm">changingminds.org/techniq...reform.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I'll see what else I can find.<br> <p></p><i></i>

Also, reach for credibility. Here is an article that would be hard to argue with, since it is an obituary in the Washington Post.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/15/AR2005061502685.html">www.washingtonpost.com/wp...02685.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>John K. Vance; Uncovered LSD Project at CIA<br><br>By Joe Holley<br>Washington Post Staff Writer<br>Thursday, June 16, 2005; Page B08 <br><br>John K. Vance, 89, a member of the Central Intelligence Agency inspector general's staff in the early 1960s who discovered that the agency was running a research project that included administering LSD and other drugs to unwitting human subjects, died May 27 of respiratory arrest.<br><br>He died at the Wilson Health Care Center of Asbury Methodist Village in Gaithersburg.<br><br> <br> <br>John Vance met people in the intelligence world while working as a military interpreter at the Nuremberg trials. (Family Photo - Family Photo) <br><br><br> <br>Code-named MKULTRA (and pronounced m-k-ultra), the project Mr. Vance uncovered was the brainchild of CIA Director Allen Dulles, who was intrigued by reports of mind-control techniques allegedly conducted by Soviet, Chinese and North Korean agents on U.S. prisoners of war during the Korean War. The CIA wanted to use similar techniques on its own POWs and perhaps use LSD or other mind-bending substances on foreign leaders, including Cuba's Fidel Castro a few years after the project got underway in 1953.<br><br>Heading MKULTRA was a CIA chemist named Sidney Gottlieb. In congressional testimony, Gottlieb, who died in 1999, acknowledged that the agency had administered LSD to as many as 40 unwitting subjects, including prison inmates and patrons of brothels set up and run by the agency. At least one participant died when he jumped out of a 10th-floor window in a hotel; others claimed to have suffered serious psychological damage.<br><br>Mr. Vance learned about MKULTRA in the spring of 1963 during a wide-ranging inspector general survey of the agency's technical services division. The inspector general's report said: "The concepts involved in manipulating human behavior are found by many people both within and outside the agency to be distasteful and unethical."<br><br>As a result of Mr. Vance's discovery and the inspector general's report, the CIA halted the testing and began scaling back the project. It was terminated in the late 1960s.<br><br>MKULTRA came to public light in 1977 as a result of hearings conducted by a Senate committee on intelligence chaired by Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho). Mr. Vance gave several long phone interviews to committee staff members but never had to testify.<br><br>Mr. Vance was born in Seward, Neb., and graduated magna cum laude from Doane College in Crete, Neb., in 1936. He received a master's degree in economics from Columbia University in 1937 and a bachelor's degree in library science from Columbia in 1939.<br><br>He began working on his doctorate at Harvard University during World War II but soon was serving in the Army. He was sent to language school to learn German and worked as a military interpreter at the postwar Nuremberg trials. In Nuremberg, he met people in the intelligence world.<br><br>His CIA career began in 1947. He was on the inspector's general's staff from 1960 to 1963, and then became the director of central reference until his retirement in 1971.<br><br>A member of the Maryland Ornithological Society and the Maryland Nature Conservancy, Mr. Vance helped in bird banding and also enjoyed gardening, biking, tennis and travel. He was a member of the Cedar Lane Unitarian Church in Bethesda.<br><br>Survivors include his wife of 64 years, Elizabeth E. Vance of Gaithersburg; three daughters, Sally Roman of Kensington, Julia Stewart of Columbus, Ohio, and Margie Kay of Timonium, Md.; eight grandchildren; and five great-grandsons.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

It isn't necessary to always argue your point--let "others" do it for you now and then. Here's an interesting site:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Articles/WashPostJune11,1975.html">www.frankolsonproject.org...,1975.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

More on thought reform:<br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.factnet.org/Thought_Reform_Exists.htm">www.factnet.org/Thought_R...Exists.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>also check out this sub link from above link:<br><br> Continuum of Influence and Persuasion <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Pulleaze! My mother (a conservative, a lifelong Republican, and a stay at home, girly woman) had every book on the Kennedy's, the assasination, had everything from Henry and Anita Hill's abduction, to books on the CIA. She never would have called herself a conspiracist, and I hae not crossed over to self-label myself that, because I think there is no "conspiracy" only unknown truths. A feminine perspective would probably drive many truths into the light.<br><br>Unfortunately, many woman are not welcome in suh circles, so we are maginalized, rather than co-opted, where more good can come of our talents. <p></p><i></i>

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Thank you all for the support. <br>Chillin - you are right, in a way, except that MKultra was never made public HERE, and I wonder how much of that was or is going on here as well. Radiation is a problem, and actually these are the same establishments doing both. There is an ongoing saga with workers in the nuclear plant who have cancer and are suing the government. The level of secrecy is so high here, that someone, a high official in an inverview to the pess said that workers are denied medical treatment for cancer because they might "chat too much" as they go to treatment...and feel bitter. He seriously thought they should be "sacrificed" and that they should also accept it "for the good of all". So much for Israel...and radiation. Naturally, the ability to expose the kind of unwitting nuking of patients like you had there with the declassification by Clinton, is unthinkable now.<br>MarykMusic - thanks and you are right about the attempt to control content through "stick and carrot". As for women's equality in ISrael, one of the biggest propanda lies. Women here suffer both from religious discrimination a la Iran (in marriage and stuff, we are still bound by religious laws...ancient ones according to which a woman is her husband's property) AND military discrimination, namely, since only men are high in the military hierarchy, women have a glass ceiling as high as their chest..because most social and career and political promotion is related to military old boys networks. Golda Meyer was PM thirty years ago, and as Thatcher et al, she was not exactly you feminist type..there were always such women in history, who climbed within the patriarchal rules.<br>Seventh - I just love your descriptions of Israel. Yes, some of our fruitcakes are sincerely brainwashed. This makes it a tragic human condition, and i tend to have a lot of compassion to those so called religious fanatics, because they are being played upon by pros, and are also scapegoated in terms of taking all the heat off the government and putting it on them (the "Settlers" so called, but who brought them there ? not God..).<br>Chiggerbit - Thank you for excellent links, I saved them, and what I think I'll do, is at some point compile a brief post with mainly links that speak for themselves rather than "do the work myself"., its a good suggestion. CUlts are the first issue coming up here with respect to this "complex of problems", it came up strong last year, but died out pretty fast. Thing is, that most Jewish Kabbalist cults, the most dangerous ones, I suspect, are still a "taboo" here. But yes, this is how it is happening anyway, there is one fairly new website for victims of cults, and people are speaking up, gradually, and there were several TV programs on it. But, its very slow. <br>Lilorphant - I totally agree with you, and more so, I think that women being able to speak up is the key to changing those dark things. There's a nice small movie/play from HUngary, by a Jewish writer, who explains the holocaust as a failure of the feminine to stand up to patriarchy. His character is a Jewish woman, who is rounded up by NAzis in Budapest, to be sent off to Auschwitz. In the train, her life passes before her eyes, and she remembers a scene when she was a little girl and her father, a doctor, would bribe her not to tell her mother that he is having an affair with the nurse. And she obeyed him, because he was manipulative. once she processes this event, she is able to stand up and go to the commander of the transport, and tell him she was mistakenly placed on the train, because she HAS the papers to stay in Budapest (this is a lie). FOr some reason he agrees, and sends her back to Budapest with a nazi officer. On the train back, the officer tells her how as a child, in church, the priest abused him and destroyed his faith. She is able to listen. And then he tells her to just get off the train and run, before he shoots her in the head. she escapes and survives the war. I felt this was a deep archetypal situation where the feminine summons the purity and courage to unravel scams. <br>SW - Oh, there is no connection between Jewish american doctors and ISraeli people. This is entirely a different opera. ISrael is basically a middle eastern state, people read and speak Hebrew (not English) and their general level of political sophistication and knowledge is low, certainly compared to the Jewish elite in the USA. A lot of information is blocked by virtue of language barriers. The Hebrew language is rather new (its an offshoot of the ancient Hebrew) and even by virtue of vocabulary, many subtle concepts cannot be captured by the raw and basic vocabulary. As I wrote earlier, somewhere, they were looking for a proper translation for MC, and came up with a very lame and long term literally saying :'psychological and spiritual captivity", eh ? <p></p><i></i>

Another thought might be to look at techniques used to get other people to do what is wanted as a continuum--if you have a comparable word for continuum--from persuasion on one end of the continuum to seduction, advertizing and propaganda, discipline, conversion, intimidation, coersion, all the way to mind control at the other end of the continuum. Some of it is intended for groups and some focused on specific individuals.<br><br>You are opening an interesting window for us, israelirealities. <p></p><i></i>

thanks chiggerbit,<br>I posted a brief version, where I put together a brief description of : 1/ mkultra 2/radiation 3/ non lethal weapons as three social problems that do not have response and legal safeguards, calling for legislation to regulate and prohibit human reasearch (non therapeutic). I placed your links for the MK Ultra, making it very solid, and the presidential advisory committee for the radiation and the wired coverage on non lethal weapon and the sunshine project. I think it is a convincing piece . so far, during the night, 70 entries and no comment, but 2 subscribers withdrew from my mailing list of blog...:-) I can almost hear them saying :"shit, why do I need this ? life is hard enough without her scary stuff...I'm done with this self torture...off i go..". <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=israelirealities@rigorousintuition>israelirealities</A> at: 10/9/05 9:16 pm<br></i>

I took a look at your blogs in both English and Hebrew (the Hebrew blog has SOME English in it and so it gives you an idea of the contant for those who cannot yet read Hebrew)<br><br>I was mightlily impressed with your courage and insight and chutzpah.<br><br>It reads a little like some off Jeff's blog. I especially wish I could understand the film clip you have linked that you filmed.<br><br>It would be great if you could provide an english transcript or subtitles by scene. Butr an interesting point of how nobody is willing to say on camera how bad the government is.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

I saw your page. I wasn't able to translate it fully, but I'll keep trying over the next few days. You are a brave soul. Thank you so much for posting this, and for using Lynns' Page as well. <br><br>I can tell you, I know there are survivors now residing in Israel. I cannot break confidence to say any more than that, but I'll do my best to share your site.<br><br>Keep up your courage, you will take hits, but this is important work. <p></p><i></i>