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My last lesson to you, thoughtographer

Postby johnny nemo » Fri May 19, 2006 1:06 pm

Thanks to my education, you now know that EFAXING DOES NOT REQUIRE A FAX MODEM.<br><br>You also learned that you can use your telephone with your computer via VoIP, as opposed to using a fax modem.<br><br>Now you will learn that Digital modems are, in fact, still MOdulator/DEModulators.<br>Obviously, there isn't an analog to digital conversion when you're going pure digital, however..... a cable modem sends and receives data in two slightly different fashions.<br>In the downstream direction, the digital data is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>modulated</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and then placed on a typical 6 MHz television channel, somewhere between 50 MHz and 750 MHz. Currently, 64 QAM is the preferred downstream modulation technique, offering up to 27 Mbps per 6 MHz channel. This signal can be placed in a 6 MHz channel adjacent to TV signals on either side without disturbing the cable television video signals. <br><br>The upstream channel is more tricky.<br>Typically, in a two-way activated cable network, the upstream (also known as the reverse path) is transmitted between 5 and 42 MHz. <br>This tends to be a noisy environment, with RF interference and impulse noise. Additionally, interference is easily introduced in the home, due to loose connectors or poor cabling. Since cable networks are tree and branch networks, all this noise gets added together as the signals travel upstream, combining and increasing.<br>Due to this problem, most manufacturers use QPSK or a similar <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>modulation</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> scheme in the upstream direction, because QPSK is more robust scheme than higher order modulation techniques in a noisy environment. The drawback is that QPSK is "slower" than QAM. <br><br>So, you may be all pissy-pants about being instructed, but the fact of the matter is that I've taught you more than you knew before, else you never would have said some of the stupid things you said.<br><br>So, I'm gonna let you pass with a D - and school is out.<br><br>n/t <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: My last lesson to you, thoughtographer

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Hahaha. Yes you're all about didactic condescension, but you're evading the point and will continue to do so. Thanks for the lesson in how the cable industry does everything ass-backwards though. Not all "broadband" options consist of digital-to-analog modems on the customer side. A cable modem is not the only means by which a consumer can use VoIP.<br><br>You went from posting links to sketchy "freeware" sites, to giving elaborate technical details about cable networks. I'd say that I did a pretty good job of getting you to think, regardless of whether you chose to beat the subject to death in an attempt to prove me (and Sepka) "wrong" about something that's a simple, harmless fact.<br><br>Fax modems are still not obsolete. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/19/06 11:33 am<br></i>
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Just wanted to clarify

Postby johnny nemo » Fri May 19, 2006 1:34 pm

To the forum members,<br><br>Some of you might have read this thread and felt bad for thoughtographer and thought that I treated him unfairly.<br>You shouldn't and I wasn't.<br><br>Thoughtographer is one of the people who go around accusing people of posting misinformation on this forum, and then misinforms hava about how internet faxing is done currently.<br>That is pure hubris.<br><br>He is a self-admitted member of a groupthink cult that has slogans like "Question Questioning" and delights in the death of others.<br>His cult preaches that UFOs will come and then the cult members will watch, and even join in, as aliens slaughter the earth's population.<br>They revel in the deaths, present, past and future, of people called "pinkboys", that they consider themselves superior to.<br><br>When I dared to call him on one of the cult leaders taking delight at the death of the Heaven's Gate cult, and pointed out his own group's complicity in misinforming the Heaven's Gate cult members, as well as their revelling in the death of "Normals" ( info which was found on the computers of the kids who shot people at Columbine), he became unhinged and attacked me.<br><br>I have been, in this thread, fighting fire with fire and showing him that disrespect is a two-way street.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Just wanted to clarify

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 1:38 pm

Hahaha. There it is! Finally, you show your true colors -- asshole.<br><br>P.S. - I can't find the thread you're talking about to illustrate how misinformative you're being, so if anyone wants to judge me based strictly on your incorrect summary, then they are also a total asshole. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/19/06 11:48 am<br></i>
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Never trust a cult member....

Postby johnny nemo » Fri May 19, 2006 2:05 pm

...they are programmed not to allow any independent thought or criticism of their cult.<br><br>And they are all assholes.<br>Stupid ones, at that.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Me gavte la nate</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Never trust a cult member....

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 2:07 pm

Uh huh -- you don't say -- go on...<br><br>(edit below)<br><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><br>For the masochistic, bored and/or reasonable people out there, here is the thread to which our friendly comic book character is making reference: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4250.topic">One saucer to rule them all, one saucer to bind them</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->. I'll let you draw your own conclusions, as it's not my place to speak for all people who consider themselves members of The Church of The SubGenius.<br><br>Further apologies to "dude h homeslice ix" for what happened on that thread.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.atakra.com/pictures/ebaycomics/magazines/johnny_nemo_magazine01.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>"Ce n'est pas un liège. Il n'y a aucun liège." (after Magritte) <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/19/06 2:16 pm<br></i>
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Re:update from Israel

Postby havanagilla » Fri May 19, 2006 4:24 pm

Just had a phone call (conference) with my cable provider and my cable phone provider, this is their response -<br>1. should be no problem to use the old 56k modem if I hook it to the <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">cable phone</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->, and then I can just fax from the PC as in the old time via regular landline.<br>2. my provider proudly said that all customers have VOIP, whatever that means.<br>3. however, they say they do not support the dial up option because its not part of their service pack, but generally all customers who did it, report that it is working.<br> <br>--<br>I will try it tomorrow, if it works, then the freeware you sent Jhonny, should be perfect. <br><br>thanks again, JN, and sorry for the hassle this created here, for some reason. cults everywhere these days. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Re:update from Israel

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 4:31 pm

What the fuck?<br><br>havanagilla:<br>I'm glad that you have what looks like several options now -- using your (fax) modem is one of those options, and since you already have it, it's arguably the least expensive and less complicated option. It seems that you've taken this dipshit on his word, so -- thanks for nothing. I won't stoop so low as to consider you guilty by your associations, but I guess I can't stop you from doing the same to me. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>
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Re: there's israel for you///

Postby havanagilla » Fri May 19, 2006 4:41 pm

oh, i'm not getting into the dispute I know nothing of. it started for me as a simple question on freeware for fax, JN placed some nice links, i wish to thank him for that. this is probably what is going to work for me, technically. the reason I wanted it, in addition to my fax is that when I have very long faxes that i write on the PC, why print them and then fax them ? I'd rather be able to directly fax them, they don't even require a signature its just a drag. Plus I heard about the efax and wanted to see what its all about, since this is very convenient to use email for fax...<br>--<br>then it turned into wwIII...<br>--<br>Cults ? I don't like them, but i really didn't read the thread about it, and so I am relying on JN's references thereto. But its really not the issue here.<br>--<br>I mentioned this little storm to my "support" person over at the cable providers and the guy there was very interested and amused. (he doesn't know much, he's just support over the phone, but said that he likes those "technical arguments", but then he didn't care to read thei board in English.). As a proud israeli he wanted to tell you "Israel is on the cutting edge of hi tech blah blah. but if anyone can offer him a technical job abroad, he is available.:Name is Avi, technical support Hot Cable Inc. :-)))<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: there's israel for you///

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 5:14 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Cults ? I don't like them, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>but i really didn't read the thread about it, and so I am relying on JN's references thereto</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. But its really not the issue here.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>All right! In that case, I've got nothing more to say to you at the moment. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i></i>
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You're welcome, hava

Postby johnny nemo » Fri May 19, 2006 5:51 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>thanks again, JN, and sorry for the hassle this created here, for some reason. cults everywhere these days.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>No problem, hava.<br>I'm glad everything worked out for ya.<br><br>BTW, since you seem to be very interested in the nitty gritty details, I thought I'd post this info for ya.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.cisco.com/univercd/illus/8/20/88120.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>During fax relay operation, the T.30 analog fax signals are received from the PSTN or from a directly attached fax machine. The T.30 fax signals are demodulated by a DSP on the gateway and then packetized and sent across the VoIP network as data. The TGW decodes the data stream and remodulates the T.30 analog fax signals to be sent to the PSTN or to a destination fax machine. <br><br><br>Simply put, a fax that is sent from a fax machine goes to the router and then the router changes it from analog to digital and sends it over the network and then converts it back to analog, right before it goes to the fax machine on the other end.<br>There really is no need for a fax modem anymore, because the router does all the modulation/demodulation.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: You're welcome, hava

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 5:54 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>There really is no need for a fax modem anymore, because the router does all the modulation/demodulation.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>In other words: the router has a built-in modem, whether it's a discrete component or not. "Demodulated by a DSP" equals "demodulated by a software modem (Digital Signal Processor)". <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/19/06 4:12 pm<br></i>
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Re: there's israel for you///

Postby Dreams End » Fri May 19, 2006 5:56 pm

This thread is surreal. It reminds me of that Dick Van Dyke episode where he had the weird dream...somehow there was a closet full of walnuts.<br><br>Here you have Johnny Nemo accusing Thoughtographer of providing disinformation...about FAXING. <br><br>then you have Hava asking about online faxing, when she has a fax modem all along...<br><br>For the record, you don't print out a document and then scan it back in and then fax it. That would be a tad redundant. Just fax the doc when you are done writing it. <br><br>I'm wondering if I'm actually the victim of an inside joke here. I mean, such opprobrium about faxing. Since I don't use Microsoft products I can't provide much guidance on the specifics...and I would HIGHLY recommend, unfortunately, not utilizing this forum to ask. Who knows, you might get into technical details about PPP vs. PPPoE and then the fur would REALLY fly. For the NSA, disinformation about dial-up internet is second in priority to obscuring the horrific truth behind the fax modem movement, who, as we speak, are making substantial progress in their gains to rid the world of VOIP. God protect us all.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: there's israel for you///

Postby thoughtographer » Fri May 19, 2006 6:13 pm

No, Dream's End -- it's quite real, sadly enough. It's pretty disappointing to me that this guy came out and admitted that he's being an asshole because he THINKS that I'm in a "cult" -- and nobody seems to care. What's worse is that havanagilla blindly accepts these lies because the person behind them looked something up on Google and posted some links.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>PPP vs. PPPoE<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>The latter is just an encapsulation of the former, so -- no argument here -- unless someone wants to refute THAT simple fact too. <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/19/06 4:19 pm<br></i>
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Thoughtographer PROVEN wrong, still cries.

Postby johnny nemo » Fri May 19, 2006 6:28 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>In other words: the router has a built-in modem, whether it's a discrete component or not. "Demodulated by a DSP" equals "demodulated by a software modem (Digital Signal Processor)"<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>In other words, you still don't know what you're talking about.<br>The DSP board is on the router now, removing the need for fax modems.<br>It is hardware, genius<br>That is what I have been saying all along, but you can't admit when you're wrong. <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It's pretty disappointing to me that this guy came out and admitted that he's being an asshole because he THINKS that I'm in a "cult" -- and nobody seems to care. What's worse is that havanagilla blindly accepts these lies because the person behind them looked something up on Google and posted some links.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I'm treating you like sh*t, because you treat others like sh*t.<br>It's an eye for an eye, loser.<br><br>The reason that no-one cares is because you run around here posting false information and then accuse people of misinformation.<br>You get what you deserve, asswipe.<br><br>You can cry all you like, but I've been telling the truth all along, namely that FAX MODEMS ARE OBSOLETE.<br>You have changed your story so many times, it's laughable.<br>Just like you. <p></p><i></i>
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