The “Alternative Right"

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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby backtoiam » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:43 am

jerky

95% of the criticisms made against them are the product of a ferociously cult-like mentality and have nothing to do with reality, and the other 5%, when compared with the antics of their enemies, are entirely forgivable.


You are talking about the Clintons right? Was that supposed to be in green?

Ever heard of Iran Contra? When Clinton was governor of Arkansas he was the bulldog that helped keep the lid on the drops at Mena, Arkansas airport. He was involved in that up to his neck. I have lost track of the people murdered around that deal including two little kids who had their throat slit and were then put on a railroad track for a train to run over so it would appear to be an accident. They were curious kids and discovered what was happening. They decided to hide and try to watch an airdrop just out of youthful curiosity and they died for it.

He and his goons had lawyers and prosecutors so terrified they were quitting their jobs and fleeing because they were terrified to do their jobs.

And Obama has good intentions?
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Jerky » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:29 am

Yeah, I think you might want to revise your list of reputable sources there, fella. You're throwing the most discredited, least evidence-based accusations collected by the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife's hired goons as though it comes from the New York Times (no Clinton fans there) or PBS Frontline.

Go and try to find a single, solitary reputable source that gives any credence to any of the crap you just spewed about those poor little (17-year-old) darlings, who most likely were killed by the bikers whose cocaine they were trying to steal, it turns out, and about whom NOTHING related to Mena has ever been proven or even inferred by any but the most rabid anti-Clinton loons.

I know lots of people here think Snopes is "disinfo" or something, but you should still make it a part of your information intake, if only to prevent you from looking like a credulous fool ALL the damn time.

J

PS - Read The Hunting of the President and watch The Power of Nightmares to get a real feel for the lunatic lenghts to which the anti-Clinton forces - a real, bona-fide vast right wing conspiracy - were and are willing to go. You don't have to be a fan of their policies to see the truth about the vicious, say-anything-to-harm-them nature of their enemies.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Sounder » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:27 am

Among the cleanest and best-intentioned politicians in post-war American history, with maybe Jimmy Carter and Barrack Obama coming ahead of them. 95% of the criticisms made against them are the product of a ferociously cult-like mentality and have nothing to do with reality, and the other 5%, when compared with the antics of their enemies, are entirely forgivable.

I imagine Bill Clinton is among the world's greatest dinner companions, to this day. I realize this is a liberal variation on the conservative "I'd like to have a beer with that guy" argument, but unlike my theoretical conservative interlocutor, my wish to break bread with the man is NOT the reason why I'd would have voted for him if I could.

YOPJ


Wow, you are a brave man Jerky, to openly endorse and praise the Clinton's.

What has this world come to?
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby backtoiam » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:52 pm

Jerky, now that I know you are trolling me I won't bother to formulate a reply.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:00 pm

Jerky » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:29 am wrote:Yeah, I think you might want to revise your list of reputable sources there, fella. You're throwing the most discredited, least evidence-based accusations collected by the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife's hired goons as though it comes from the New York Times (no Clinton fans there) or PBS Frontline.


Centaur Rose, Jade Bridge, Project Donation, "Iran" Contra - all real, all documented. Clinton was involved.

Clinton really did fly around with Jeffrey Epstein. Discovery for one of the Epstein trials turned up 26 flight logs where ol' Bill took to Lolita Express.

"Whitewater" was a limited hangout. Targeting the "Clinton Crime Family" omits their employers. Targeting Hillary omits the Rose Law Firm; implicating Bob Nash omitted Jackson Stephens. Narratives are carefully crafted when US intel does it right; Langley hires very literate spooks.

CIA drug dealing is ongoing because the operational cover has worked for decades. Every subsequent "scandal" -- every time some front company or supply line gets blown -- they're only getting better at dealing with it. This is because of the same inherent biases and heuristics that Hugh was always lecturing us about, the hypnosis of narrative. Having a ready reference to dismiss new information makes it easier and easier to control the media and public fallout. "Jesus, that Whitewater crap again?"

Personally, I'd wager a good 40% of the Clinton hate is the result of sheer reality tunnel momentum -- "a ferociously cult-like mentality," say -- and inherent disgust for them, as images and as people.

But the bulk of it is their own documented actions. Politicians are often inherently entertaining people. They have lots of stories and decades of professional experience manipulating people -- being charming. I'd definitely have an indefinite number of beers with either of the Clintons, although Bill is of course the more natural performer of the two.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Searcher08 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:07 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:00 pm wrote:
Jerky » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:29 am wrote:Yeah, I think you might want to revise your list of reputable sources there, fella. You're throwing the most discredited, least evidence-based accusations collected by the likes of Richard Mellon Scaife's hired goons as though it comes from the New York Times (no Clinton fans there) or PBS Frontline.


Centaur Rose, Jade Bridge, Project Donation, "Iran" Contra - all real, all documented. Clinton was involved.

Clinton really did fly around with Jeffrey Epstein. Discovery for one of the Epstein trials turned up 26 flight logs where ol' Bill took to Lolita Express.

"Whitewater" was a limited hangout. Targeting the "Clinton Crime Family" omits their employers. Targeting Hillary omits the Rose Law Firm; implicating Bob Nash omitted Jackson Stephens. Narratives are carefully crafted when US intel does it right; Langley hires very literate spooks.

CIA drug dealing is ongoing because the operational cover has worked for decades. Every subsequent "scandal" -- every time some front company or supply line gets blown -- they're only getting better at dealing with it. This is because of the same inherent biases and heuristics that Hugh was always lecturing us about, the hypnosis of narrative. Having a ready reference to dismiss new information makes it easier and easier to control the media and public fallout. "Jesus, that Whitewater crap again?"

Personally, I'd wager a good 40% of the Clinton hate is the result of sheer reality tunnel momentum -- "a ferociously cult-like mentality," say -- and inherent disgust for them, as images and as people.

But the bulk of it is their own documented actions. Politicians are often inherently entertaining people. They have lots of stories and decades of professional experience manipulating people -- being charming. I'd definitely have an indefinite number of beers with either of the Clintons, although Bill is of course the more natural performer of the two.


Thank you for that, WR

Ahh, Jackson Stephens. In the days of J. Orlin Grabbe (RIP) I always thought he was the nearest thing to the 'Centre of the Cyclone'...

PROMISes, PROMISes.

I wonder what connections if any the Clintons have to (My Name is...) Earl Brian?
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:34 pm

The Clintons have served as a decent foil for folks with reactionary tendencies because- although they are probably equally "corrupt" as most any bourgeois politician on their level is- their problems are well known and easy to weave into the appropriate narrative, and they are branded as "liberal"...
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:56 pm

Image


The dark history of Donald Trump's rightwing revolt


Image
White segregationist demonstrators protesting in Little Rock, Arkansas, in 1959.

Of all the forces unleashed by the rise of Trump, the one that may pose the greatest threat to the relevance of the conservative intellectual establishment is the gleefully offensive movement known as the alt-right. Nurtured by online forums such as Reddit and 4chan, along with white-nationalist standbys such as American Renaissance, the alt-right has become a vehicle for the simmering anger of mostly white and mostly young men – with strong links to the earlier varieties of racialpolitik promoted by Francis, who is sometimes cited as a founder of the alt-right. Mainstream conservatives have reacted with shock and horror to this development. “The nasty mouth-breathers Buckley expelled from conservatism have returned,” declared a typical response from Commentary, one of the major journals of the establishment right.

But the new iconoclasts of the alt-right can’t be purged from a conservative movement they have no desire to join, especially when they can reach an audience of millions on social media. If there is an heir today to the young William F Buckley – who launched his career with exuberant attacks on the hypocrisy of the liberal establishment and managed to make conservatism look like a stylish rebellion against the powers-that-be – it might be someone like Milo Yiannopoulos, a professional provocateur who has become a spokesman for the alt-right. At one typical event this spring, Yiannopoulos, who refers to Trump as “Daddy”, delivered a lecture with the title Feminism Is Cancer after being ushered into the auditorium on a throne held aloft by students wearing “Make America Great Again” hats. Yiannopoulos’s critics are rightly concerned that his main agenda is promoting himself, but Brand Milo is a booming business.

The future looks more precarious for the guardians of True Conservatism. They have strong support from leading figures in the Republican party such as Paul Ryan, and retain control over an infrastructure of donors, thinktanks and journals. A landslide defeat for Trump could still revive their cause, but they could just as easily be swept aside by a rising generation of rightwing activists with a more Trumpian set of concerns.

Their brand of conservatism won’t disappear, but it could become more a curiosity than a movement, as it was in the days before the birth of the modern right over half a century ago. “The whole Buckley experiment may have been a passing phase,” says Lind – a strange interlude when a cohort of writers mistook their ideological preferences for the will of the people and, even stranger, provided the basis for an industry based on that delusion. The anxiety that its time has passed lurks underneath all the conservative establishment’s impassioned denunciations of Trump: a fear that his unprecedented victory in the Republican primary has demonstrated it is already obsolete. “I’m a conservative,” Trump said in April, “but at this point who cares?”


But Trump may have unintentionally pointed the way for a new kind of American conservatism, driven by resentment at the globalist diktats of the hated managerial class. Over the last year, that anger has emerged in surprising venues. In language that Francis would have recognised, the billionaire PayPal co-founder and Silicon Valley guru Peter Thiel declared that America is no longer a democracy – since it has become a country “dominated by very unelected, technocratic agencies”.

Thiel has been an outspoken libertarian since his days as an undergraduate at Stanford in the 1980s, and in 2008 he supplied $500,000 for an attempt to create manmade islands that would provide an “escape from politics in all its forms”, but lately he has started to associate himself with a different crowd. In July, following an outpouring of criticism, he cancelled a planned appearance in front of a group that has provided a meeting ground for libertarians and white nationalists, including Francis’s close friend Jared Taylor. But a similar public outcry did not persuade him to drop another speaking engagement earlier that month: a speech on the final night of the Republican national convention, where he had come as a delegate to cast his vote for Donald Trump.


Image
Republican presidential candidate Pat Buchanan at the Cross Roads of the West gun show in Phoenix, Arizona, 1996.



More at: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/a ... nald-trump
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby backtoiam » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:33 pm

american dream

The Clintons have served as a decent foil for folks with reactionary tendencies because- although they are probably equally "corrupt" as most any bourgeois politician on their level is- their problems are well known and easy to weave into the appropriate narrative, and they are branded as "liberal"...


What does that word mean exactly within the context you are using it? Serious question.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:58 pm

Backwards not forwards: towards White Supremacy, Homophobia, Capitalism, Patriarchy and all such traditional "American" values, in this case...
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby backtoiam » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:04 pm

American Dream » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:58 pm wrote:Backwards not forwards: towards White Supremacy, Homophobia, Capitalism, Patriarchy and all such traditional "American" values, in this case...


So people that notice the malignant behavior of the Clintons are gravitating toward White Supremacy, Homophobia, Capitalism, and Patriarchy?
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:13 pm

No, for people who want White Supremacy, Homophobia, Capitalism, Patriarchy and all such traditional "American" values, the Clintons have served as a decent foil because- although they are probably equally "corrupt" as most any bourgeois politician on their level is- their problems are well known and easy to weave into the appropriate narrative, and they are branded as "liberal"...
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:04 am

http://www.btlonline.org/2016/seg/16090 ... erlet.html

Alt-Right Racists Leading Trump Campaign Enter Upper Echelon of Mainstream U.S. Politics

Posted Aug. 31, 2016


MP3 Interview with Chip Berlet, author, investigative journalist and researcher on racism and intolerance of the "alt-right", conducted by Scott Harris

http://www.btlonline.org/2016/mp3/16090 ... berlet.mp3


ImageThe 2016 presidential election campaign, already marked by Donald Trump’s blatant appeals to bigotry and finding scapegoats to blame for the nation’s weak economy, sunk to a new low recently with the appointment of Steve Bannon as Trump’s new campaign CEO. Bannon’s surprising rise to a top spot in U.S. politics provoked many questions, because as executive chairman of Breitbart Media – a popular right-wing website, he had cultivated a sanctuary for white supremacist, misogynist and anti-Semitic expression. After Trump's leadership change, the media highlighted the ties between Bannon, Breitbart and a loose network of ultra-conservative, mostly online activists known as the alt-right, or alternative right.

Although those associated with the alt-right movement have no officially recognized ideology, commonly held views include opposition to multiculturalism, immigration and feminism – as well as an affinity for white nationalism, white supremacy, anti-Semitism and nativism. Democratic party nominee Hillary Clinton responded to Bannon’s leadership in the Trump campaign with a speech in Reno Nevada devoted to denouncing Trump’s divisive rhetoric appealing to the “emerging racist ideology known as the alt-right,” and warned that a nationalist conservative fringe had taken over the Republican Party.

Between The Lines' Scott Harris spoke with Chip Berlet, an investigative journalist, research analyst, scholar and activist who has written about racism and intolerance for over four decades. Here, he examines the belief system of the "alt-right," and the significance of their presence in the upper echelon of the Republican party and mainstream U.S. politics.

For more information about the link between the alt-right movement, racism and the Trump campaign visit Chip Berlet's blog: Research for Progress at researchforprogress.us/topic; What is Alt-Right? By Chip Berlet at researchforprogress.us/topic/concept/what-is-alt-right/ .
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:23 pm

https://antifascistnews.net/2016/09/06/ ... really-is/

Image


ALT LIGHT OR ALT RIGHT?: UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE ALT RIGHT REALLY IS

The reaction has been pretty stark.



In the ramp up to Hillary Clinton’s Alt Right speech and in the aftermath the Alt Right headed into the public media consciousness. Drawing together the appointment of Stephen Bannon with the conspiracy popularity of Infowars and the racist crew of Twitter trolls, she has allowed a layer of media scrutiny to somewhat misrepresent the Alt Right. Her speech was generally a positive move and none of us expected her to get all the details right. As profiles came from every major news outlet, few actually got the characterization of the Alt Right correct.

What this allowed for, and what was already happening as the Alt Right label became popular over the past few months, is received a layer of commentators and angry white voices have begun calling themselves Alt Right without holding the real ideological foundations. Breitbart, the Donald Trump campaign, Ann Coulter, Milo Yiannapoulos, and a whole range of Twitter commentators and Trump supporters have been labeled as Alt Right, either by the media externally or in a sort of self-imposed Edgelord identity.

This phenomenon has been labeled by those in the Alt Right as the Alt Lite, and while it has presented them with a huge boost in exposure, it has also created a problem for their ideological consistency.

The Alt Lite mainstreams most of the Alt Right’s most public and middle ground political positions. Immigration restriction, anti-political correctness, Islamophobic policies, anti-feminism, and other Trump-like proposals. These are all superstructural positions, manifestations of an underlying politic that many in the Alt Lite do not share. While places like Breitbart are helping to fight the Alt Right’s war on immigration and demonizing voices of color, they are not necessarily centered on their white nationalism, race and IQ beliefs, and vicious anti-Semitism

A recent story released by the Forward written by Josh Seidel called “I’m a Jews, and I’m A Member of the Alt Right” was the most cited of these, and likely the one that made the most Alt Right members angry. Here he pronounces a politically incorrect, Trump supporting opinion, one that is void of almost all the features that those of us who track far-right groups would actually ascribe to the Alt Right. He was one of the many commentators who have taken on the label, using the trendy term Alt Right to simply describe their own mildly controversial views, ones that are inconsistent among these voices and not set in the ideological roots that all actual Alt Right publications agree on.

Richard Spencer, who runs the National Policy Institute and the Radix Journal, is one of the centers of the Alt Right, and has been generally positive about this development. He calls himself “pro-Alt Lite,” but does say that they need to maintain ideological consistency and watch out for entryism. There is not likely to be actual conservative entryism into the Alt Right, but he is right that those with more middle ground views who simply want to appear “edgy” will help to moderate their movement.

The Right Stuff and its signature podcast, the Daily Shoah, was less happy when looking at this phenomenon, especially Jews calling themselves Alt Right. In an article called “I’m a Jews and I’m Party of the Alt Right, Trust Me Goy!” they provided an ironic commentary suggesting that conspiratorial Jews are trying to destroy the Alt Right from the inside. Here they outlined four key parts of the Alt Right that must be observed, including:

Opposing Illegal Immigration
No Globalist Elites
Natural gender roles
Anti-Semitism


The last was incredibly important to them, and one that they stress in this article that jokingly takes on a “Jewish” voice.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier there is a very vocal minority of people who claim to be part of the Alt-Right who spread anti-Semitic memes all across the Internet. They share pictures of Jews being shoved into ovens like it’s nothing. If you ask them about their disrespect they claim the Holocaust never even happened. Can you believe that? In the Current Year people still believe that the 6 million were not gassed and ovened. I got so angry one day that I asked one of these Alt-Right pretenders where they got the idea that the Holocaust never happened. The pompous brat rattled off some gibberish about there “not being any paperwork explicitly calling for the extermination of the Jews.” He even showed me a stupid coin that had a swastika (OY VEY) on one side and a Star of David on the other. As if that’s supposed to mean anything! Then he had the gall to link me to some despic–uh, I mean, confused gentile pastor who babbled on about high tech ovens and asked a funeral director about cremation times. These people are loco, amigo! So, to summarize my feelings on the matter, I don’t really care. American children are told the truth about the Holocaust and the 6 million from age 5 onward. They’re made to read Night at least 3 times and told about Hitler’s sexual derangement due to having one testicle (He was probably into butt stuff too, goys.) They’re taken on field trips to one of a dozen or so handsomely funded Holocaust Museums at least once in their school careers. A vocal minority on Twitter doesn’t scare me; although, those parentheses got real old, real fast.




The most popular podcast on the Alt Right, Fash the Nation, also stressed that Jews cannot be a part of the Alt Right since the Alt Right itself is anti-Jew. What they say very clearly, and what is echoed on almost the entire core Alt Right publications from Counter Currents to the New Alternative Right, is that Jews are responsible for undermining Western identity through globalism, immigration, feminism, queerness, and other “degeneracies” that stop White men from running a nation “in their interests.” Fash the Nation actually sites another Alt Right commentator, Lawrence Murray (a joking Semitic pseudonym) and their “principles” of what makes up the Alt Right.

(We are shortening these obviously, they clearly think that their LONG definitions are important, but you will get the drift.)

People are different.
Our world is tribal.
Our tribe is being suppressed
Men are not women and women are not men.
Freedom is a responsibility and not a right.
If we must be a democratic society, the franchise should be limited.
Jewish elites are opposed to our entire program.


While they try to have a conversational and inoffensive tone, the politic here is clear. This is ideologically in line with almost all neo-fascist programs, one that see the traditional gender roles as necessary, that racial groups are unequal, that democracy should only be for the racial “in group,” that freedom needs to be subsumed to only certain caste levels, and that Jews are the enemy. They go on to cite people like Kevin MacDonald, the anti-Semitic psychology professor who has made it his life’s work to prove that Judaism is a “group evolutionary strategy” to confuse Gentiles and undermine their nations.

Greg Johnson, the esoteric white supremacist founder of the Alt Right publishing house Counter Currents, posted an article that sums up a sentiment that we actually agree with completely. Called “The Alt Right Means White Nationalism…or Nothing at All” he outlines what the Alt Right is versus what the Alt Lite wants it to be.

Like paleoconservatism, the Alternative Right was simply a way that timid, status-conscious conservatives could flirt with racism and even anti-Semitism while maintaining some sort of pretense of mainstream credibility.

But when Richard Spencer started the Alternative Right webzine in 2010, the principal funders and writers regarded it simply as a vehicle for White Nationalist entryism, and they would have blown it up rather than see it become anything else. Today’s White Nationalists need to take the same strongly proprietary attitude toward the Alternative Right. It is a vehicle of White Nationalism, and we will give it the Howard Roark treatment if it is hijacked from us. Full stop

Johnson is not as sympathetic to the Alt Lite phenomon as others are because he notes that Counter Currents has not really seen a traffic bump through the search terms after the Clinton speech. This kind of analysis is a good metric for the development, one that Johnson has always been pretty apt at reading. Johnson’s work is ideologically consistent, one that shows the clear connection between the Alt Right and the esoteric mysticism, Germanic neopaganism, and occultism that many associate with the spiritual ideas that run parallel to fascist movements. While associating with the surface level of Alt Right “Shitlords” on popular websites and Twitter handles, Counter Currents continues to publish books by people like Savitri Devi, a white Hindu woman who believed that Hitler was a divine avatar and that the caste system should be enforced through authoritarian violence. While many on the Alt Right associate more with a atheist “race realist” perspective, there is still a reverence for these more occult and spiritual positions echoing through all Alt Right institutions, with some, like Neoreactionaries and the Radix Journal, being more explicit about the “spiritual” foundations for their racism.

Andy Nowicki, a writer who was popularized as a co-host of Vanguard Radio, the original podcast of Alternative Right, is now the editor of the New Alternative Right website (the original was deleted by Richard Spencer amid protest by Nowicki). In his article “What the Alt Right Means to Me (Hillary Clinton Remix),” echoes this sentiment, even though Nowicki himself is not a strict White Nationalist.

In general, places like American Renaissance, Red Ice Radio, and the vlogger Millennial Woes have all created “intro videos” for the Alt Right to help orient Alt Liters, all of which are explicit about their racism, anti-Semitism, and opposition to democracy and equality.

While the Alt Lite phenomenon may be difficult for those on the Alt Right, it also presents challenges for anti-fascists. If the Alt Right is dumbed down to just means iconoclastic American conservatism, it is harder to make the connections that their public ideas, like immigration restriction and Trump success, is rooted in white nationalism. That is the source of this politic even if some recent “converts” are using the Alt Right label without accepting all of its dirty laundry. What the Alt Right will do over the next several weeks is to double down on its more unsavory connections, something that will reverberate through the Alt Lite as it becomes more and more apparent what the phrase, and the ideology, really means.

For those on the anti-fascist left it means continuing to name names when it comes to the Alt Right, and to not let their silly arguments about crime, immigrations, and politically correct speech be the end of the conversation. Instead, we should help the Alt Right tell the truth, so to speak, so that they can consistently reveal who they are.



We need to call the Alt Right what it is: fascist.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:34 am

http://class-struggle-anarchism.tumblr. ... -sartre-on


Image

jean-paul sartre on the alt-right, 1946


Twitter trolls in a nutshell.
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