image dump (warning: disturbing/annoying objects present)

[nathan28]

Im not interested in any kind of games.
Was just inquiring out of curiosity.

My main interest being, what is reality, and what is life.
And what is freedom.

i think the stock answer is, "life is a serious game", so, no flippancy here

those are much more difficult than "what is this" and "who is it". though i probably ask myself those same questions every day. the "Secret Cheifs" are an optional part of that.

[Perelandra]

I'm curious, too, Penguin.

But I'm also as wary as nathan, to whom thanks for bringing up some material for further research.

I may be wrong, but it almost sounds like some of you are bringing pure synchronicity into this? Synchronicity storms, as a friend put it. They happen to me often, literally impossible shit. Sometimes more, sometimes less marvelous. Sometimes laugh out loud stuff. However, the phenomena seem fairly benign and are not the result of any magickal manipulation of mine.

Nonlocality, I guess. Perhaps getting used to the garden-variety stuff means REALLY weird stuff will manifest. I don't know yet.

[nathan28]

I'm curious, too, Penguin.

But I'm also as wary as nathan, to whom thanks for bringing up some material for further research.

I may be wrong, but it almost sounds like some of you are bringing pure synchronicity into this? Synchronicity storms, as a friend put it. They happen to me often, literally impossible shit. Sometimes more, sometimes less marvelous. Sometimes laugh out loud stuff. However, the phenomena seem fairly benign and are not the result of any magickal manipulation of mine.

Nonlocality, I guess. Perhaps getting used to the garden-variety stuff means REALLY weird stuff will manifest. I don't know yet.

oh, i think the better part of "magick" is one part manipulation of chance and one part "second attention". Quoth Genesis P: "Force thee hand ov chance"

that said, there's also just the outright "acausal" (i.e., "impossible") shit. Though "acausal" is a bad word--"energy release" would be better.

My paranoia is two-fold: first off, there's the politicalization of some of this stuff. See Changing Images of Man, and St. Yves (google "synarchy yves"). Particularly, the CIoM (i've got to read the damn book) was about creating a new faith/culture that would keep society together. It's not that the technologies or techniques are somehow bad (some of them are but those are pretty easy to spot, usually.); it's the amount of support they've gotten. Why the hell are there institutes trying to apply "contemplative wisdom to social problems?" Normally you apply what the buddhists call "morality" and the catholics call "charity" and the politicians call "social initiatives" to that.

second. there are a lot of crackheads and welfare queens on the astral plane posing as imposters or benevolent things. they will fuck with you if you aren't careful, and will even if you are. kind of an avocational hazard.

[Perelandra]

there are a lot of crackheads and welfare queens on the astral plane

You're funny. I do agree with a lot of what you say. What we know of life is variously dangerous, absurd, beautiful, and all the rest.

To paraphrase RAW, "archetypally, peculiar entities pay special attention to those who pay attention to them". Is motivation key, as alluded to in myth and legend? What are the entities' motivations? Enduring questions.

Edit to say: what and why peculiar entities?

[Perelandra]

She tells her love while half asleep,
In the dark hours,
With half-words whispered low:
As Earth stirs in her winter sleep
And puts out grass and flowers
Despite the snow,
Despite the falling snow.

[OP ED]

sorry for delayed response.

real world called.

lots here. give me a moment to collect it into something i can approach efffectively.

[OP ED]

Secret Cheifs:

from my casual reading, the Secret Cheif conceit dates to the 18th Century at least. There was a French secret society with a political-occult orientation that initiated a character who'd go on to found his own society and was fairly prominent. All the names escape me at the moment (i know some German, but french is foreign to me). These guys were so secret, though, that when they initiated this guy and met with him, they were always masked. Forget secret handshakes, these guys didn't even know what each other looked like.

Anyway, eventually they stop contacting this dude. In all likelihood these secret masters got executed, what with their agenda and all, save this one guy. Reign of Terror, etc. Anyway, a little later, he founds his own order, patiently waiting on the Secret Cheifs.

i have a comic book like that.

(why is it likely someone was excuted?)

why are we starting in the 18th century? (conceit?)

...

i think this may be a result of jargon literalism, i.e. mistaking the name of a thing for the thing.

So then St. Yves, "founder" of synarchy, grandfather of the Changing Images of Man project before SRI had even been founded, picks this up and runs with it. He inserts spiritual hidden masters from Agartha and Shambala into his racist-monarchist mystical narrative, and decides that these guys are so secret, they're not just masked, they don't physically exist. Theosophists go apeshit over this and it plays really well with Mdm Blavatsky's psychic schtick.

oh okay, if i have to have this conversation...
well yes, i know what "synarchy" is. my snarkic posture, as i saw it, was a pre-empting of the predictable "synarchical-martini-omni-conspiracy" (geo likes that shit) which always seems to come next. it isn't your fault, so please do not interpret any previous and/or future snark as being purposefully aggressive. (if i was attacking you, i'd say so)

mostly it is a result of my reactionary nature and my complete boredom and annoyance at the post-LaRouche-iness of the "martinist synarchist" super-theory of deep politics re: the New Left (and/or the "New Age" depending on whichever reductionist smear is more trendy this decade) and its supposedly Octopus-Like control of everything from Zionism to Communism. *YAWN*
(oh and they drink the blood of Christians, just like the Viet Minh)

(i also don't see what SRI has to do with "St. Yves" or his various offspring either, but that appears to be a minor digression so i'll simply note it for future reference in case it is relevant and i'm simply missing the point)

Anyway so a little later Aleister Crowley is out in the desert with is boyfriend Victor Neuberg, either invoking Choronzon or the spirit of an Egyptian workman (you decide!). To Mega T. is taking it the hard way and suddenly, white, robed figures appear before him. Probably pretty embarassing, but that's how it works. The Secret Cheifs of the Great White Brotherhood impart a whole bunch of knowledge about sex magick, sprituality, etc., or something like that. 0=2, 5=6, genitals as an appendage like the hand or foot blah blah blah, etc., etc.

[not exactly, this episode appears to be a conflation of two or three different things, but whatever]

[re: genitals = appendage re: Swedenbourg's "Divine Wisdom" also stolen from Indian subcontinent in general really; re: tantric toe sucking & etc; re: Blake's "Milton" and relevant bits of "Jerusalem"]

i don't recall anything quite so lurid. there are differing interpretations of the language, however...

There is probably a lot of conflation in this narrative, it's all from memory. It's also probably riddled with someone else's deliberate misinformation, though i'm presenting it in good faith.

there is lots of deliberate misinformation going around.

[what you describe sounds like a cartoon to me and not at all like what i am attempting to describe. more on that below]

So the Secret Cheifs are some head-honcho type non-physical entities out there to help humanity, or whatever. If you're a crypto-traditionalist like me, you'll say, "what's the point? i don't take orders from no entities" and if you're a little paranoid, you'll question why the Secret Cheif narrative has insinuated itself so thoroughly in the New Age, which sure lines up nicely with Changing Images of Man, don't it? etc.

i would certainly not describe most of the things i can account for as being non-physical. that would be strange indeed.

some of them are/were people.
(one was an amphibian, that was akward)

(changing images of man, btw, isn't exactly machiavelli, it always struck me as essentially christian in tone, despite the supposed eccentricities of its author)

I think there are more space bretheren in the "New Age" (whatever that means) than there are Secret Chiefs nowadays. The term "new age" is sort of vague for my tastes really, and is normally only used as pejorative stand-in for "new left ideas i am not fond of". the general implied meaning of the term, in that sense is carried across despite.

the continuous ubiquitous nature of an idea that has paleolithic roots [in ancestor worship] isn't really all that suprising to me, honestly. it has become specialized and/or heavily altered in many places it is obvious. The words in english/french/german/etc. "Secret Chiefs" are admittedly not much older than 17th century at best (depending on who was translating the R.C. stuff*) but like most of the ideas of its time it had been imported from elsewhere, along with significant baggage. There is no such thing as a new idea.


[*i like Rudolf Steiner's versions, some of his best work, less nutty than it gets in places with him]

...

if its the neo-jargony nature of the term that offends you, i can abandon it. there are several others i use when discussing the associated packages of paranormal phenomena with distinct groups of people.

alternative terms follow:

as you mention traditionalism, and later specifically catholicism and buddhism, i'll start with traditionalist terms.
this is made easier by the fact that Mr. St. Yves' occult-theosophistry is very post-Catholic/Lutheran and very infected by memetics from both traditions (and some Jacob Bohme). For the catholics, the equivalents would be the angels, and more especially the Saints. and/or also the "Elders" and other assorted kindred holdovers, some misunderstood, from the Hebrew Prophets. some of these Prophet-folks, re: Enoch & Elijah are literally "ascended masters" of sorts. If you prefer your post-Christianity to be of the NeoGnostic Phillip Dick sort you could call them "Grey Christians" (servants of the ZEBRA plasmate since 70 A.D.) seeking the emancipation of life from the Black Iron Prison. (or whatever)

Buddhism is even easier, as Agartha is a literal retelling of the Kalachakra's shamballa myths. re: "Secret Chiefs" = "Sambhogakayan Bodhisattvas". one of whom, Manjusri, is often credited (in tibet at least) with having exported the Kalachakra/Shamballa/Agartha teachings to Westerners (specifically 300,000 or so Semites of some sort) to begin with. I prefer him as Yamantaka wherein he aligns better with my more primordial leanings in regard to the interpretation of this phenomena.


(the master of fate, Secret Chief of Agartha)

with my companion St. Jerome (both a musician and a gangsta so he can get away with calling hisself that) and due to his leanings, i might consider using a term with even deeper roots, such as "Djoto-Djevi" to connote the ancestral Hougan, whether he be disembodied and bonded with a tripartite man as a vessel or embodied still (the anti-zombi) in mortal flesh.

[Voodoo mixes especially well with Catholicism and unmasks its Saintly Traditions for the Ancestor Worship they are.]

these are considered distinct although not neccessarily seperate from the "axionic entities" or etheric parasites of the goetic processes.

in my own cabal, filled with nerds who spoke Klingon in highschool, in our contemporary jargon applied to the study of global religious currents as a singular progression in the prophetic-literary tradition; I'd likely use the composite modern term Istari. Although outside of the local cabal, this term would seem silly to someone who didn't know any better.

[Blake's Imaginal-Literalist theory of Poetic Visionary Recreation, Phillip Dick's explanation of the undying character Elijah in "Divine Invasion", Crowley's insinuations of being the Great Beast (Eliphas Levi and Akfnkhonsu reincarnated), and Tim Leary's Personal Beliefs regarding his Divine Purpose as the Universal Gardener, are all representations of the same thing and all touch on the distinguishing line(s) between non-tripartite entities (demons) and the "ascended masters"]

there are probably better examples. Steiner's hierarchies are too dogmatically contructed for my tastes, personally.



...

"Space opera" was a coinage by L. Ron to describe his own myths.

indeed. i suppose it is kind of tangentially related. but I resent the implied comparison of my experiences to L. Ron Hubbard's fiction.




(i'm much more sophisticated than that)


...

I have a Jacques Vallee-esque attitude to some of this stuff... someone is benefitting from it, if they aren't controlling it (i doubt it can be controlled in a reliable way).

i understand "more abstract and possibly less human". It is like the 'angelic" and "archangelic" in Steiner's schema.

[see above re: Steiner]

but yes, sort of. except there are people too. just not in your attic.

well how hard is it to facilitate contact? triangle + incense (+ drugs)? a little bit of effort to seem serious enough? less comic books, more weird-ass shit!

if we're talking axionics, yes. but i had something a little more weighty in mind with my reference. you don't invoke them. they find you.

the post-Spare "chaos magick" (wanking in circles) doesn't really seem to do much for me. i need something that involves interacting with the world to get decent effects.

drugs help me to mop it up and learn states of consciousness. they're mostly useless for actually doing things in most regards, however. which is not a slur. i think recreation is a useful process in and of itself.

i'm too obsessive-compulsive and antisocial (Cluster A) for occult orders (Cluster B). most of the occultists i've met you wouldn't trust to to wake up to feed your dog, let alone start fucking with major energies, and are hopelessly out of touch with the rest of the world. I guess i'm really a square at heart.

i rarely participate in group functions directly. i am a member of several organizations. meeting people is easy.

most of the "occultists" i know are merely lazy buddhists.
(Buddhism for White People! now with even less work!)

I've never gotten real coherent narrative of that sort. i mean, i have, but way, way too boring. more like a character study than a narrative.
...
i don't think i could ever, ever impress this fully enough. anyone interested in this game should read about the sword of damocles and the monkey's paw.

i do not know what you mean by narrative. perhaps you could be more descriptive. i didn't get a cosmology or anything. i didn't ask for one.

i had a good highschool literature teacher, so i have your latter suggestion covered on my account.


...

what're you looking for, stories of weirdness? stock tips? secret handshakes?

stock tips? that's what goetia is for

(having cake and eating it too, yes?)

Im not interested in any kind of games.
Was just inquiring out of curiosity.

My main interest being, what is reality, and what is life.
And what is freedom.

i think the stock answer is, "life is a serious game", so, no flippancy here

those are much more difficult than "what is this" and "who is it". though i probably ask myself those same questions every day. the "Secret Cheifs" are an optional part of that.

not optional for traditionalists.

I'm curious, too, Penguin.

But I'm also as wary as nathan, to whom thanks for bringing up some material for further research.

I may be wrong, but it almost sounds like some of you are bringing pure synchronicity into this? Synchronicity storms, as a friend put it. They happen to me often, literally impossible shit. Sometimes more, sometimes less marvelous. Sometimes laugh out loud stuff. However, the phenomena seem fairly benign and are not the result of any magickal manipulation of mine.

Nonlocality, I guess. Perhaps getting used to the garden-variety stuff means REALLY weird stuff will manifest. I don't know yet.

oh, i think the better part of "magick" is one part manipulation of chance and one part "second attention". Quoth Genesis P: "Force thee hand ov chance"

that said, there's also just the outright "acausal" (i.e., "impossible") shit. Though "acausal" is a bad word--"energy release" would be better.

My paranoia is two-fold: first off, there's the politicalization of some of this stuff. See Changing Images of Man, and St. Yves (google "synarchy yves"). Particularly, the CIoM (i've got to read the damn book) was about creating a new faith/culture that would keep society together. It's not that the technologies or techniques are somehow bad (some of them are but those are pretty easy to spot, usually.); it's the amount of support they've gotten. Why the hell are there institutes trying to apply "contemplative wisdom to social problems?" Normally you apply what the buddhists call "morality" and the catholics call "charity" and the politicians call "social initiatives" to that.

second. there are a lot of crackheads and welfare queens on the astral plane posing as imposters or benevolent things. they will fuck with you if you aren't careful, and will even if you are. kind of an avocational hazard.

i think the synchronistic effects are useful for tracking these sorts of encounters. the problem is that the synch doesn't actually provide any useful information itself as to whether or not one is moving in the right direction. they may be trying to tell you to stop.

certainly any dealings with anyone, whether mortal or axionic should be dealt with carefully. although i'm not really talking about the astral plane, at least not as such. (talking bout Seven Mile)

re: Nathan/Paranoia: some suggestions:

everything is politicized. if you're looking for a popular belief system with no politicization you're going to have to look on some other planet.

No one seems to be making a big deal out of millions of buddhists studying this stuff. (you seem to be ignoring it, and pretending St. Yves made it up hisself) no one is pushing any new ideas. the only thing universal about new ageism is the multiplicity of foreign memes imported into western post-monotheism. these systems, i'd argue in contrast to the picture you paint, get considerably LESS support from PTB than the more "traditional" systems. i see more press against them than for them, most of it generated by the "traditional" protestant servants of the right wing.
(Baptist school is where i first heard about "the new age conspiracy", so perhaps you'll understand my distaste of anything that resembles it in form and shape)

if Buddhist "morality" and Catholic "charity" had the capacity to fix our problems, wouldn't they have already done so during the thousands of years they've ruled the hearts and minds of the majority world population?

(let the luciferians have their turn already)

...

I suggest that you should read the Saint-Yves Book. It really isn't so bad. I've personally coopted his triple branched system for fictional writings of my own. (heavily modified, of course)

Also read Bohme's "Aurora" which is where most of the these people have their roots, and explains the similarities (outside buddhism) of the various theosophists much better than links through synarchy or martinism.

You might also look into the actual Martinist writings. Not saints, of course, but not exactly sinister either. I'd suggest rather than starting with google (which will result in a plethora of Conspiracy Theory websites) you begin at the relevant wiki links. Start with the generally accepted information and then get into the stranger stuff. some of the martinist tracts, influential on some synarchism are available as pdf at the wiki site.

(note: the Martinist use of the Strict Observance Rite of Freemasonry makes their involvement in any Occultic-Secret-Society-Synarch-Conspircy somewhat less than likely, at least in my mind)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synarchism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_ ... 27Alveydre

I tend to regard most of these omni-theories as being resultant of Political Cult infighting amongst the Various New Agers.
(or used as smears from right wingers)

....
apologies for typos. will proofread afterwards.


more later, time for breakfast.

Love is the Law.
:: ::

[Penguin]

Thank you very much, OP ED, appreciated.
Ive noticed buddhists have some knowledge of this stuff - at a time when I was doubting my sanity, I met a music teacher who was also a buddhist. For some reason (yeah) I started talking to her about my experience, and she provided me with affirmation of their reality and occurrence by buddhist practises too. I wrote to you OP ED about some aspects of that experience, I think over a year ago.

[OP ED]

Thank you very much, OP ED, appreciated.
Ive noticed buddhists have some knowledge of this stuff - at a time when I was doubting my sanity, I met a music teacher who was also a buddhist. For some reason (yeah) I started talking to her about my experience, and she provided me with affirmation of their reality and occurrence by buddhist practises too. I wrote to you OP ED about some aspects of that experience, I think over a year ago.

indeed you did.

i still have the PM, i just never got to it. apologies. i stay behind on that sort of thing.

i was planning to respond to the posts you deleted from this thread next. they were here yesterday when i stopped in.

would that be okay? or did you delete them because you did not wish for them to be here?

(i copied the text before you deleted them)

[Penguin]

You can answer how you like
I simply thought they were somewhat incoherent, is all. I was a little distracted yesterday...

[Perelandra]

Interruption:
The poem above was a place holder so I could remember to wish everyone LOVE today.

[Penguin]

http://in.reuters.com/article/entertain ... 5720090214

MUMBAI (Reuters) - Indian police stood guard at colleges decorated with heart-shaped ballons in Mumbai on Saturday and arrested hundreds of militant Hindus across the country to quell Valentine's Day protests.

Dozens of party workers of the fundamentalist Shiv Sena, which has disrupted Valentine's Day celebrations for years, were arrested in Mumbai and in Gwalior, police officials said.

In Bangalore and in Mangalore, more than 400 party workers, including the leader of Sri Ram Sena party, were taken into preventive custody on Friday, hours after a local court ordered the state to check what it called "violent behaviour by moral policemen".

Well, thanks and happy Valentine anyway
I just had an anniversary too, last week.

Heres my lovey pics:

[nathan28]

Fair enough, as you can tell, my reading in this field is not very deep. And, likewise, I have given or thrown away most--and now, looking at my bookshelf, almost every--of the books I've had.

Hadn't meant to cause a stir with my Highlights approach but I was asking for it.

I don't give that much credence to the "synarchist" thing, since I'm quite aware that Larouche may have made all of it up, as well as god knows how much else. But that said, I'm simply not comfortable with the politics involved behind tripartite government overseen by the illuminated. I already read the Republic.

I'm also not comfortable with finding ads for Edgar Cayceites in the newsprint magazine at the gym. What the fuck is that? Do I really need to hear about how a Celtic-Atlantean warrior enslaved Africa eleven thousand years ago? I'd point to the Mad Cow Morning News segment on Heaven's Gate, then the fact that I read about Marshall Applewhite being one of Vallee's "Messengers of Deception" a quarter-century before the brainwashed cult killed itself. Did I mention their landlord has a Ph. D from a one-room office, writes recommendations for Saudi students and may be loosely connected to Mr. Atta? Somebody is fucking with this stuff.

Now, don't take it to mean I think the Theosophist narrative has been compromised by "synarchists," though it certainly borrowed. See also The Shell Game and The False Return for somebody's take on this.

================

I have had a handful of "higher" contacts. I still don't know how to unpack them, save that it involved a massive, massive amount of energy. It didn't and doesn't feel like I was put in touch with anything special. I'd go so far as to say it'd be very easy for someone with that sort of thing to lose perspective very quickly: i did at first.

But in retrospect it simply seems like it was a gradual process unfolding to get me in touch with the ordinary.

Which is part of the reason I don't get the Secret Chiefs stuff. And in part because I'm a Hinayanist nihilist. Like one teacher said, "everything will have those same three marks", i.e., how is it special? There are plenty of folks all over the internet posting about their amazing spiritual experiences--but who lack basic insight.

That's what I mean by "traditionalist"--I'm not a fan of intermediaries..

more later, eventually, save to say that Buddhists call morality "the first and last teaching" because it is relative and cannot be mastered, not even by "Buddhas"

[OP ED]

You can answer how you like
I simply thought they were somewhat incoherent, is all. I was a little distracted yesterday...

okay. just checking. i stopped in before turning in last nite and copy/pasted most of the last two pages into other programs so's i could work on it a bit at a time while offline.

i came back and yours were gone and i didn't want to stick them back here if that would be a problem.

...

Yeah.
Tread lightly, I try to remember. Cause no unnecessary suffering for any being. Take only what is necessary. And "no" is as good a decision as any.
I dont count on any beings, human or nonhumans, benevolence. Its a predatory universe out there, and Im quite certain that my energies are most tasty to many too. Fear is the mind killer. And freedom is my goal, not power or abilities.

indeed. as i said previously, i do not usually consider myself a particularly trusting person. especially to strangers of any species.

some of the people i've met eventually became my friends. it is normal to trust your friends to a greater or lesser extent, and i generally recommend it for those interested.

i do not discount nathan's suggestion that some of the varied phenomena may well benefit someone. i think we should reasonably expect most natural behaviors to be to the evolutionary advantage of one or more groups.

although i'd add that i much prefer the risks involved with regards to the benefits to the alternative, that is to "vain repetitions" that obviously do not benefit anyone.

just to be clear: in general, i do not suggest dabbling to anyone. it is not an lifestyle option. it is not something you can turn off easily. one of the primary reasons god invented medicine men is because he knew that most people wouldn't be interested in that shite once they learned what it was going to cost them. god needed crazier.

Ive had no option of turning back from my interest, not in 10 years or more. Back then we had a retreat with similar minded people (OP ED I wrote to you about parts of it a long time ago, you said youd comment on it but never did ), we all were totally quiet and asked simply "what is life? what is death? what is reality?" - and then each of us died and passed on - and the answer we got - from ourselves? from the universe? was such that I first thought I went mad, then realized that Its a weird world to live - and damn more interesting than Id been led to believe. And then I met a person, out of pure chance hehe who could tell me what I needed to know then. A real live flesh and blood person, yea.

again, apologies for never getting back to you properly. you should've bugged me about it until i did.

a lot of what you describe reminds me of drugmind effects. (see the third man thread and its related topics) i've had similar experiences. in some cases, group solidarity seems to greatly increase the odds of actual weirdness ensuing. i think special care should be taken when trying to interpret these happenings as there is strong evidence, IMO, for egregoric influences, which is to say: any interactions with "other" resulting can easily be obscured by the thoughts of your comrades (and yourself of course) and this should be taken into consideration.

some people seem to be more sensetive to the groupmind effects than others, and prolonged sessions seem to create a disjointed local reality at odds with the consensus field outside. an example: during a summer-long hallucinogen binging fest, there were times wherein myself and/or other associates would be tripped out on all sorts of things for days or weeks solid. eventually a sort of mind meld takes over. peoples' are synchronized as if choreographed. time dillates. outsiders who visit and do not take drugs end up tripping out anyway, because the local consensus is on drugs. several complaints are made.
(more people on than off drugs = druggie reality rule?)
....

For me, it goes far further than simple synchronicity. Synchs happen all the time, and Ive simply become accustomed to noticing them. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Thou I feel like they are related...

i use one as a marker to indicate proximity of the other.

And then theres the mind - reality interaction. Local disturbances in rules of reality. Impossible shit. Ive seen this manifest only once in a strong way, on that retreat I mentioned. It was so strong I was sure Id gone mad then. Too much, too much - be careful for what one asks, you just might get a glimpse of it. It made outsiders act according to its will - we could all see the field superimposed on reality, pulling and tugging people, buildings, us, according to its movements. Made one person sleepwalk to help me. I wonder what he remembered the next morning, of that....

seen/experienced time bends, poltergeists, apparitions, noises, lights, etc. as a result of continued/prolonged engagements like the one i described above.

lots of weird things followed that summer that got stranger and stranger. one of the reasons i've been avoiding your account, Penguin, is how closely (temporally/spatially speaking) these experiences preceeded or followed my mothman encounter which i've been trying to turn narrative for some time now. (fictionalize it, for my own safety, they are part of THAT story, in context, but make for fun adventures on their own. i plan to publish lots of real stories as fiction someday)

the Moth was the culmination, but it started with Goetics and Ouija Boards and DXM and Poltergeists and got progressively stranger. Strange things have happened since then, of course, too, but not on the same level of weirdness as that summer/fall.

spent an afternoon in another universe once.
(literally, like, in my own actual body in a place that doesn't exist, no drugs, and i wasn't alone. story to follow in later post)

[actually happened twice, but the second time i was alone, so it could've been a flashback or schizophrenia or something]

re: sleepwalkers.

first an digression into the chemical and psychiatric effects of dextromethorphan:
(invoke the wiki)

emphasis(es) mine:

At high doses, dextromethorphan is classified as a dissociative anesthetic and hallucinogen, similar to the controlled substances ketamine and phencyclidine (PCP).
....
Antitussive preparations containing dextromethorphan are legal to purchase from most pharmacies worldwide. Since dextromethorphan's use as a recreational drug usually involves only the ingestion of large quantities of an over-the-counter medication, no legal distinction currently exists between medical and recreational use, sale, or purchase, though some states, such as Illinois, now require signatures to purchase dextromethorphan medications and limit the purchase to two packages at a time.
....
Dextromethorphan, when consumed in low "recreational doses" (usually around or slightly more than 200 mg, or around 1.5 to 2.5 mg/kg), is described as having a euphoric effect. With middle doses (about 400 mg, or 2.5 to 7.5 mg/kg), intense euphoria (or dysphoria), vivid imagination, and closed-eye hallucinations may occur. With high doses (600 mg, or 7.5 mg/kg and over), profound alterations in consciousness have been noted, and users often report out-of-body experiences or temporary psychosis.[8][9] Frequent and long-term usage at very high doses could possibly lead to toxic psychosis and other permanent psychological problems.[1] Most users find such high doses to be extremely uncomfortable and are unwilling to repeat them. Flanging (speeding up or slowing down) of sensory input is also a characteristic effect of recreational use.
....
A document entitled "The DXM FAQ," by William E. White, classifies dextromethorphan's high-dose effects into five plateaus, each defined by a dosing range. The dosages are specified in ratios of milligrams (of the drug) per kilogram (of one's body mass). According to the FAQ, the plateaus occur as follows:[17]

First plateau: At a dosage of 1.5 to 2.5 mg/kg, effects include a sensation of alertness, stimulant effects such as restlessness, increased heartbeat, and increased body temperature, intensification of emotions, general euphoria, euphoria linked to music, alteration of sensations of gravity, loss of balance, slight intoxication, and for some users nausea.
Second plateau: At 2.5 to 7.5 mg/kg, effects include the same effects of the first plateau, with added choppy sensory input, entering a dreamlike state of consciousness, increasing detachment from outside world, a heavier "stoned" feeling than with first plateau, and/or closed-eye hallucinations.
Third plateau: At 7.5 to 15.0 mg/kg, effects include flanging of visual effects, difficulty recognizing people or objects, chaotic blindness, dreamlike vision, inability to comprehend language, abstract hallucinations, delayed reaction time, decision making impairment, feelings of peace and quiet, near complete loss of motor coordination, short-term memory impairment, and/or feelings of rebirth.
Fourth plateau: At 15.0 mg/kg or more, an individual may experience a perceived loss of contact and control with their own body, changes in visual perception, out-of-body experiences, perceptions of contact with "superior," supernatural, or other archetypal beings (ie. gods, aliens, vampires, etc.), other miscellaneous delusions, lack of movement or desire to move, rapid heart rate, complete blindness, increased hearing, and intensification of third plateau effects.

***Plateau Sigma:
2.5-7.5 mg/kg every three hours for 9-12 hours; There are some reports that suggest this fifth plateau occurs by prolonging dosage, rather than increasing it, ingesting small to moderate doses over time. White characterizes Plateau Sigma as bona-fide psychosis, a complete disconnection from reality, with prevalent, realistic, vivid open-eye visual and auditory hallucinations. For example, users have reported entirely realistic and vividly-recalled encounters with aliens and gods. Users have also reported a disconnection from emotion, such that inclinations and urges become auditory hallucinations of vocal commands to which the user is entirely obedient — as in, rather than simply feeling tired and sitting down, a user would hear a voice saying, "sit down now, you're tired," and feel inclined to obey. White says that of all the reports of Plateau Sigma experiences he received, over half were described as unpleasant, and users said they were unwilling to repeat the experience.

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OP ED's Note:

Plateau 6. (take 3X Level 5 Dose, try not to die)

i got all of the other effects, yes. During the sporadic OBEs a few hours later, amid the cacaphony of voices, i suddenly had this very clear vision of a wall of glass on the horizon, like an enormous mirror, moving towards me. a voice was saying to sit still, that it would be okay. just relax. closer and closer. eventually i could see myself reflected in the mirror, althouh the reflection was wrong, it was as if it was looking at me from the other side, left to right speaking, my reflection was faced the opposite of the proper direction. for some reason this unnerved me, and i stood up to run away from the mirror bearing down on me from my left. as i turned to the right, i was shocked to see that i had been outflanked by a second horizon of mirror, trapped as they broke upon me. the voices, and the everpresent chemical crackle in my head got louder and louder and i went competely dark. lost time. then i was alone again, and it was quiet inside. finally i ventured a "Hello?" into the emptiness that had replaced the chaos choir in my head.

"hello" it said. "this is your brain"

then the world turned back on. and i was laying on my porch, and the hallucinations and all had stopped, sort of. (though it should've lasted another 12-15 hours) the buzzing from the drug was still there. it would never go away. (still here now) and i had a peculiar sensation i'd never had before, that is difficult to describe. i call it: remembering you are trapped in a box. you, i mean. your brain. i could feel that i was a puppet, pulling myself along. very strange.

afterwards i went to the mall and did a number of impossible things on impulse. it seemed that everything was still moving a little too slowly, and no one seemed to be able to see me. i tried to get peoples' attention but everyone ignored me. if i got in their way, they'd go around me without ever looking at me. i felt strange and disconnected. eventually i thought to prove to myself that it was my imagination. i figured i knew how to get attention attracted to myself. i'd go to a store with shoplifting security and set it off. go too near the exit with something, make it beep. after the alarm went off, the security guards came and turned it off. they didn't notice me. so i went to try again. this time i actually left with the stolen goods, assuming i could out-run mall cops if required. again, they came and turned off the alarm and ignored me. i went back in and stole a number of brightly colored ornamental garments (funny hats, etc) and put them on. i set off the alarm again and jumped up and down in front of the security. i followed them back to their desk, yelling at them as they ignored me. stood on the desk. jumped up and down. getting bored i put the things back in the store, setting off the alarm again, and left the mall.

went home to sleep. when i woke up the next day, people could see me again, and the buzzing wasn't so loud.

maybe they had the most sophisticated anti-theft policy ever.
or
something very strange.

...

anyhow that's one of my strange tales.

...
my trip to universe B later.

...

Still, consider myself one ignorant mammal, in any case
And discussions like this are hugely hampered by a lack of vocabulary. Words are so severely lacking in meaning when you get down to it.

the world is weird.
there are no words to properly express how weird it is.

[Penguin]

i think special care should be taken when trying to interpret these happenings as there is strong evidence, IMO, for egregoric influences, which is to say: any interactions with "other" resulting can easily be obscured by the thoughts of your comrades (and yourself of course) and this should be taken into consideration.

Very true. Oftentimes its as fruitful as trying to make sense of some half remembered dreams...

Thats how it mostly was then - a vortex we created in our mindstate - as we were 3 and we all had agreed to do the same thing - be silent, meditate, and experience. We had lots of shared elements, but also personal parts. And the weirdest was how it affected other people, when I went out alone too. Especially as I realized Ive locked myself out at night in -15 C or so, with no way of getting in - then I "know" its ok - and I see a guy in his underwear walk to open the door for me, a glazed look in his eyes, never saying a word, not holding a thing in his hands - simply walks back in his flat after opening the door for a total stranger at 3 in the night.

Im still not sure about some stuff that happened then - the more scary stuff. The others cant really help there, since they had their own shit to handle as well...And because at that point, I was mostly reduced to a shivering scared creature wanting it all to be over already...And wondering why I was so stupid as to do that in the first place..Crazies indeed. But it was at this part that I think I felt a presence offering me - information? To show me something? And I answered hell no, get the fuck away and let me be. But I cant be sure since at the time I was reading some Castaneda books and it could just as well have been thematics from there...

And an old woman - I knew she would get very very scared and run when she would pass me - and as she did, she took one look in my eyes and started running for her life...The same happened once with a dog - it used to bite peoples ankles then - I started to play a puppy, sounds and all, and it started licking my face worriedly. But when I stopped whining and opened my eyes, the dog almost got a heart attack, and ran from me whimpering. Did not come near me again that night...

At moments we also were clearly playing parts for each other without knowing why or what, necessarily.

In any case, we have discussed the event among ourselves, even years after..It was equally important to all of us. And afterwards, my friend said the same thing - now it always feels like they are present a little. Same for them.

A little after that time I was together with one of those friends, at the same place. Im not sure If wrote of this one to you earlier..

We were sitting facing each other, cross legged, eyes closed. I started to feel warmth and light around my navel. My friend remarked to me that I am shining. I start to concentrate on the light, and it shoots up bright, to my head and thru the top of my head. At this my friend sways back and exclaims that it got really bright.

We change positions, again sitting facing each other, but in another direction. Im looking at his face, and it starts to go thru different faces. the eyes stay the same more or less, every time its as real looking as it gets, no hallucination quality. At times fat, at times skinny, with scars, now bearded, now moustached...It goes on for a couple of minutes.

After this we go out in the woods, didnt know at the time that he fears dark. We talk a little but soon realize that we can finish each others sentences and talking is hence useless. We walk around the dark forest, lay down here, then there, scout for good spots in the bushes, lie down. Only later he told me that he felt totally safe that night with me. Ive never been afraid of dark, or woods - one of my favourite places

And then there are the dreams that are true - happen the next day, usually. Or happen in reality at the same time as Im dreaming of them. This has happened a few times, with no drugs of any kind involved. One Ive written about here too, and that one I also told to a friend before calling the person I dreamed of - to have every little detail of the dream confirmed. Nowadays I sometimes know what people are going to say in a few seconds - word for word. I dont have any idea about how I do it - it just happens. Can be any trivial thing, but occasionally its been most important - like a person getting ready to punch me.

Later, Im very tired, gonna get some sleep.
Thanks again.

Btw, about universe B...My friend had something (similar?) happen that time. He smoked salvia in addition to what we took - I didnt dare, which was probably good. He sat there for a couple minutes eyes closed, and he described it as being pulled thru a pinhole in the sky, and pushed out the other side. And there he was - somehow tree-ish plants, but not trees from earth, rolling sandy hills covered in vegetation...He said it was as real as real, and all he could remember of this world was that small tugging pinhole in the back of his head / sky. He said it felt like he was there for hours, when suddenly the pinhole starts to pull him back, swooosh, and back in the room, and he opens his eyes.