image dump (warning: disturbing/annoying objects present)

[OP ED]

OP ED's Merry Valentine's Deer

(w/tomatoes/potatoes/corn/pintos/butterbeans/spinach/celery/onions/red-green-white-peppers/basiloreganogarlic/greenbeans[dill]/carrots/bamboo&etc)

[Perelandra]

OP ED's Merry Valentine's Deer

Mmm. I'm jealous. You cook too.

Mine (+ garlic mashed potatoes and salad)


Zhivkov told me to say Hello to all friends and he hopes the day is happy all around.
Me too.

L8r

[Perelandra]

more later, eventually, save to say that Buddhists call morality "the first and last teaching" because it is relative and cannot be mastered, not even by "Buddhas"

Thanks, nathan. Was recently reading some RAW, in which he stated that morality is a cause of suffering. Have wanted to explore that and in the short interval, have not found much to help, although I'm sure I will.

[Perelandra]

One must have a mind of winter
To regard the frost and the boughs
Of the pine-trees crusted with snow;

And have been cold a long time
To behold the junipers shagged with ice,
The spruces rough in the distant glitter

Of the January sun; and not to think
Of any misery in the sound of the wind,
In the sound of a few leaves,

Which is the sound of the land
Full of the same wind
That is blowing in the same bare place

For the listener, who listens in the snow,
And, nothing himself, beholds
Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is.

[Penguin]

I love snow and winter. It seems to be a nice day with few degrees below zero - Im thinking of going winter biking a little. Studs and all in em tires...
Maybe bike to a good public sauna and let a lil steam off..

[nathan28]

Happy Valentine's Day. I'm a little altered and it's past my bedtime so let me see what I can say.



oh, DXM. makes you sweat a melting styrafoam smell.

I took a couple trips to the fourth plateau, and one final one to the Sigma plateau. As Op Ed has described, there is a black-out, but it has the quality of being not like one of those alcohol-induced blackouts, since the gaping hours upon hours of nothingness aren't lost to memory.

From where I am now, I feel comfortable calling that the "Seventh Jhana, 'Nothingness.'" Who knew? It had a name, and had been discovered millenia before.

On the other hand, I've usually been laid out for days on end metabolizing the multiple-gram doses well after the main trip ends, so I've never had a chance to take it for a walk. That said, for weeks afterwards i could manifest siddhi, like seeing through closed eyelids and through walls. On thing that is clear, however, is that aside from the gross psychological distortions, much of the experience isn't inaccessible outside of DXM (or other drug use). maybe later i will attempt to piece together some of these experiences and memories, though, frankly, they seem less important from a practical perspective than the immediate effects (i.e., the psychic shit, indicative of concentration/energy)--I didn't get this with acid or psilocybin, though did with ayahuasca and to a lesser extent salvia

At this point, my conclusion is that most drug use in this vein is a way of "borrowing" concentration needed to get into these higher realms. You'd be surprised the effect a couple hours in "Equanimity" will have on "local reality"

Is the Salvia D. experience really "universe b"? another "dimension" (literally) for sure, but what does everyone mean by "universe b?" All i know is that Michael Bertaiux thinks that invoking all the paths of the Klippothic Tree of Death allows access to "Universe B" and frankly that's a fucking stupid idea, I think Hermann Hesse called it "proving a point to yourself" and folk wisdom calls it "shooting yourself in the foot" and "cutting your nose off to spite your face".

that said, all of this really is a very subtle trap if not taken with perspective into its actual practical value and a sense of humor.

[Penguin]

I dont know - that hasnt happened to me - I just grabbed that since that was the word OP ED used. It was what my friend told me - he used the words "another world" - and described it as such. Dimension, world, what...

Salvia just takes me to that salvia time-continuum, and alters my perception like nothing else. It has potent healing abilities, psychological especially. Hasnt swooshed me to another world...
Ive smoked it only a few times and feel pretty reverent towards it. When I am there, I can feel all the previous times, like see them on a continuum. A second here is ages there.

Id be careful with that DXM, friends...It may cause Olneys lesions in your neurons, especially at those high doses. Thou that is controversial and probably only a danger in long term use. You dont use long term do you
Ive checked only up to plateau 3, and it felt damaging enough to make me not want to do it.

Yah, was a great bike trip - it was soo bright that my eyes watered, from the sun shining on the clean snow and ice. And a nice sauna as well...Sweated it all out

that said, all of this really is a very subtle trap if not taken with perspective into its actual practical value and a sense of humor.

Yeah. Sometimes the only thing that can save one is a good motherfucking belly laugh!

[Perelandra]

At this point, my conclusion is that most drug use in this vein is a way of "borrowing" concentration needed to get into these higher realms. You'd be surprised the effect a couple hours in "Equanimity" will have on "local reality".

Nicely said.
I have experienced psychic effects after lengthy concentration via reading on esoteric stuff. Probably doesn't cause brain damage.

[Penguin]

The buddhist woman I met years back also said that all drugs are just shortcuts for the concentration and practice that otherwise takes years.
And the risk of injuries is far smaller, of course. Usually drugs alone wont do much either, without some basic form of concentration wielded.

I guess you could crack some joke about sports and steroids here...
Thou it wouldnt be exactly the same in most cases. Steroids really fuck you up.

[OP ED]

Fair enough, as you can tell, my reading in this field is not very deep. And, likewise, I have given or thrown away most--and now, looking at my bookshelf, almost every--of the books I've had.

Hadn't meant to cause a stir with my Highlights approach but I was asking for it.

as you say. i never interpreted your statements as intended to be attacks, and i should hope that my responses are not seen this way either. sometimes i'm just drunk.

I don't give that much credence to the "synarchist" thing, since I'm quite aware that Larouche may have made all of it up, as well as god knows how much else. But that said, I'm simply not comfortable with the politics involved behind tripartite government overseen by the illuminated. I already read the Republic.

oh there are certainly pieces of it that are true. (Michael Bertiaux is an theosophistric-martinist/synarchist-psuedo-thelemite and almost certainly a black magician [BoKo] at the very least, for example, more on him below)

i had the advantage, i've mentioned, of having been educated by severe rightists who did a lot of my cultist sorting for me. they were wrong a lot, of course, but mostly they at least helped give me a list of names and vague associations. other than that it is mostly a matter of reading up and meeting people. both of these are easy.

I'm also not comfortable with finding ads for Edgar Cayceites in the newsprint magazine at the gym. What the fuck is that? Do I really need to hear about how a Celtic-Atlantean warrior enslaved Africa eleven thousand years ago? I'd point to the Mad Cow Morning News segment on Heaven's Gate, then the fact that I read about Marshall Applewhite being one of Vallee's "Messengers of Deception" a quarter-century before the brainwashed cult killed itself. Did I mention their landlord has a Ph. D from a one-room office, writes recommendations for Saudi students and may be loosely connected to Mr. Atta? Somebody is fucking with this stuff.

8bit and i have discussed some of this before, IIRC.

(i'd suggest lots of somebodies are fucking with this stuff)

...

Now, don't take it to mean I think the Theosophist narrative has been compromised by "synarchists," though it certainly borrowed. See also The Shell Game and The False Return for somebody's take on this.

i wasn't saying the theosophists were not compromised. most of the ones i know of after 1870 are. i simply do not see their compromises and/or failings as being part of any singular strategem, was all i was saying really. most of them were useless at best.

i've read both of those essays before. i largely agree with most of the assessments in them.

(Crowley's book Moonchild has parodies of both Mathers and Blavatsky [among others] as characters [villains] to whom he is not particularly sympathetic. i liked the book, in general, but it isn't his best work, not even in fiction)

I have had a handful of "higher" contacts. I still don't know how to unpack them, save that it involved a massive, massive amount of energy. It didn't and doesn't feel like I was put in touch with anything special. I'd go so far as to say it'd be very easy for someone with that sort of thing to lose perspective very quickly: i did at first.

what i meant with my original reference was something that would seem to observers to be particularly mundane and involves interaction with what appear to be flesh and blood people often in public.

none of the aparatus of ritual is often involved. although the specific contact experiences often intersect with ritualized setting occurrences which would have relevance to me similar to what you seem to be describing. call them "coincidences" in public with "strangers" who provide some service, all of which perhaps stemming from something occurring earlier with more of the trappings of such things as concentrated energies and ritual disciplines. my christian upbrings causes me to instinctively regard these people as angelic. i am not certain this is correct.

sometimes the effects of ritualized behavior, including chemical use, will interact in complex ways with these occurrences. although in my personal experience they are usually not simultaneous.

But in retrospect it simply seems like it was a gradual process unfolding to get me in touch with the ordinary.

Which is part of the reason I don't get the Secret Chiefs stuff. And in part because I'm a Hinayanist nihilist. Like one teacher said, "everything will have those same three marks", i.e., how is it special? There are plenty of folks all over the internet posting about their amazing spiritual experiences--but who lack basic insight.

indeed. that was almost exactly the first thing they said to me.

"we do this all the time"


(this principle is central to the teachings of my A:.A:. intermediary as relates to this subject)

That's what I mean by "traditionalist"--I'm not a fan of intermediaries..

more later, eventually, save to say that Buddhists call morality "the first and last teaching" because it is relative and cannot be mastered, not even by "Buddhas"

(not a particularly big fan of moral relativism)

also not a Buddhist. Not that i find them objectionable or anything.

(i buy all of my flowers from some monks just northwest of here, they have the best flowers and are exceptional conversationalists even if i largely disagree with their philosophies)


....

oh, DXM. makes you sweat a melting styrafoam smell.

I took a couple trips to the fourth plateau, and one final one to the Sigma plateau. As Op Ed has described, there is a black-out, but it has the quality of being not like one of those alcohol-induced blackouts, since the gaping hours upon hours of nothingness aren't lost to memory.

memory of nothing.

From where I am now, I feel comfortable calling that the "Seventh Jhana, 'Nothingness.'" Who knew? It had a name, and had been discovered millenia before.

a little abstract for my tastes, but it works as a close enough description.

On the other hand, I've usually been laid out for days on end metabolizing the multiple-gram doses well after the main trip ends, so I've never had a chance to take it for a walk. That said, for weeks afterwards i could manifest siddhi, like seeing through closed eyelids and through walls. On thing that is clear, however, is that aside from the gross psychological distortions, much of the experience isn't inaccessible outside of DXM (or other drug use). maybe later i will attempt to piece together some of these experiences and memories, though, frankly, they seem less important from a practical perspective than the immediate effects (i.e., the psychic shit, indicative of concentration/energy)--I didn't get this with acid or psilocybin, though did with ayahuasca and to a lesser extent salvia

myself and others i know have experienced these and similar effects with the DXM. so strong for something esssentially legal everywhere. the "i can read with my eyes shut" effect is something i'm familiar with as well. that is very odd. i first realized it when someone reminded me to turn some lights on.

i've often wondered if the Soviet PSI project, which included similar effects in some of its research, ever utilized this chemical because of its ready availability(like the Americans tried with LSD and etc).

there are techniques for assimilating the drug states in normal consciousness. that is, to recall them without further chemical encounters. as per the DXM particularly is easy for me, as i never got rid of my crackle completely. it turns back on a bit everytime i use any sort of chemical or other deliberate consciousness modification. (whatever you like, asana, prana, tantra, etc) even the modest stimulant of coffee or a psychoactive like weed make the crackle louder. i do not "trip" anymore, i.e. hallucinate, its just the noise, and the volume and frequency pitch seem directly related to my energy levels. its my control knob, if you like, for adjusting my state of mind. in a lot of the shamanic traditions i am familiar with, it is usually visual effect that are concentrated on or held in the mind until they manifest in subjective experience. mine is auditory first and foremost.

it is a potentially dangerous chemical.

(not a long term user, note to Penguin, as the story i told was largely my last time taking it, some years ago [seven or so] but i've been considering trying it again at some point in the future, although not likely to be anytime soon, once interacting with reality becomes impossible, it loses some of its attraction)

At this point, my conclusion is that most drug use in this vein is a way of "borrowing" concentration needed to get into these higher realms. You'd be surprised the effect a couple hours in "Equanimity" will have on "local reality"

indeed. the chemical can only provide impetus. it is normally difficult also to focus this energy in these states. as i said before, normally useless for actually doing things. cocktailing chemicals can actually help this, but become increasingly difficult to avoid risks of damage from the chemicals themselves.

(for example, an DXM/Ketamine/Ritalin/Taurine combo provides an excellently strong but extremely lucid tripping effect. i found i could largely exert influence on the flanging rate, for example, but mixing the proper dosages and timings [also] so as not to risk harming the cardiovascular system is complicated and not suggested in general)

but largely what i meant originally didn't have anything to do with drugs, at least not directly.

Is the Salvia D. experience really "universe b"? another "dimension" (literally) for sure, but what does everyone mean by "universe b?" All i know is that Michael Bertaiux thinks that invoking all the paths of the Klippothic Tree of Death allows access to "Universe B" and frankly that's a fucking stupid idea, I think Hermann Hesse called it "proving a point to yourself" and folk wisdom calls it "shooting yourself in the foot" and "cutting your nose off to spite your face".

while i've had the Salvia experience before, that wasn't what i was talking about. and i wouldn't describe my S.D. trips as being that literal. Although in large doses ingesting rather than smoking has induced complete OBE type effects for me, but i think i was rather in this universe. i floated around my house mostly.

Michael Beriaux may or may not be correct. i've never tried opening all of the spheres on the Tree of Death before, and i'm not so certain it is a good idea. i suppose it is entirely possible that a voice from the other side told him so, tho'.

His "O.T.O.A." is, for the record, strictly dark side of the force insofar as i'm concerned. they're the reason i'm pretty sure that Grant and his "typhonians" are infected as well. otherwise they'd just be silly.

unfortunately his books are popular. people who haven't been properly initiated themselves will likely have a hard time telling the difference. it is what makes people like Bertiaux so dangerous. Even seemingly good intentioned people make use of his work (Sherwin/Carrol or even Grant Morrison for that matter) because he actually puts just enough actual useful information in it to make it get past someone's outer defense grid.

stay away from him.

ahem.

re: "B"

arbitrary choice of designation, really. simply, the universe i live in is automatically "A" so whichever one i visit the second is "B".

i meant a real life physical place i got to one morning. by walking.

(i'll post a summary shortly, after i finish catching up to this thread)

that said, all of this really is a very subtle trap if not taken with perspective into its actual practical value and a sense of humor.

of course.

esp wrt chemical induced wonderment.

(practical value is harder to assess than it sounds tho')

[zhivkov]

Hi ya'll -hope everyone is doing beautifully- I was going to come over here and say this med I am taking to quit smoking is giving me the most horrific body odor-but then I saw all the smart stuff and thought 'I wont go into that'! The deer looked delish-I thought this pic and one more I will bring if connection holds were funny-I will remove them if no one else does-best to all of you!

[zhivkov]

wow I missed a lot -will have to go way back to see -I never read Messengers of Deception -fascinating Vallee named the Heavens Gate dude so early on-I am shocked anymore with how fast time passes-literally there are days for me that time should crawl -none of them do-if I remember correctly Heavens Gate was in 1997 -that seems like ancient times now! best to all of you-I am going to start reading the pages from whenever I last saw them-Z

[zhivkov]

well damn-I was so long in typing some thoughts down that when I hit submit -i didnt realize that i had been timed out!! ugggggh-probably some of the only things of any value I have ever said anywhere-ok -gonna take a break and will try again later-i had given you all a huge round of compliments and said each and every one of you was brilliant in your own ways-the images are astonishing and beautiful!! i am working my way backwards the important stuff later-if indeed it is important at all-i dont believe this -this has never happened -funny in a way-best to all of you!-Z

well that'll teach me not to be unnecessarily wordy! wonderful wonderful thoughts BTW what I had said before in my apparently too longly stated comment was in relation to Penguins statement about life, reality and freedom are and of course in regards to others comments was that I have always been very interested in TOEs -but I have come to the point in my life that I do not think any description of our reality will ever be complete-I have such bad OCD tendencies that I have always wanted to write something along the lines of PKDs Tractates Scriptura (something like this anyway-maybe mispelled). Here are some definite-altho with me always willing to change mind if other info presents itself
1) our reality is a matrix -or at least a great part of it is-not all and this is the good news so to speak
2) my original ideas on these thoughts started to develop when i read a bit by clifford pickover about how each and every one of us and every thing in our reality is encoded in transcendtal numbers -he used pi as example (ps i think i used wrong descriptor(mathematically) for pi and basically said hey no worries each and every one of us is encoded in pi and will live forever
3) I thought this much too simple an explanation for everything -altho as we shall see a very good start because he used a number
4) i thought even if we are encoded in pi-WTF I mean something would have to 'read' us out of the number -right? or it would be useless ?
5) Here is what I am developing -and of course this is not 'me' but because of the huge amount of literature i have read on the subj everything from physics to kabbalah to magic to acid trips NDEs etcetera
I think perhaps we are coded in some transfinite number -perhaps pi-i do not know-but somehow inter/transdimensionally or holographically the plane/level of existence 'we' are at has to get 'read' out of the number some way -how this happens i do not know-hold on let me post this

[zhivkov]

6) 'our' universe/ reality is prob untold ages old -i think infinitely perhaps/most astrophysicists say it all started like 13 billion yrs ago and the like -
7) to me the fact the we are here -there is a one so there must be a many-and this applies to time as well/i think to the degree that time is an illusion -that there is no possible way of ever finding out where we are if looked at sequentially -what I am trying to say is that if the universe/multiverse is here at all -and i think we only see/know one percent of it if even that -if all is infinite then of course using percentages is useless- ok clumsy so far -if lets just say reality is endless and timeless then there could be an infinity of time and space (which are prob all constructs of our animal brains anyway) before 'our' time
this is where the matrix bit (no pun intended) comes in going to Frank Tipler? work and others-if any sufficiently advanced race will always eventually recreate ancestral 'realities' in computers with huge computational power -then i would suppose it is more than likely we are in a simulation rather than the 'original' reality
9) do i think our suffering and love and lusts are real? yes i do -in fact the twin poles of suffering/bliss hate/love -things of that nature may be the most real things we can feel
10) this is where i think my ponderings are a bit different than some-even tho i think it is very likely our reality is a matrix -created how i do not know-maybe something along the scheme of the pi number being 'read' in some fashion(the reason i like anything created from numbers is that it would go a long way towards explaining why numbers are so effectual in explaining physics and our reality-tho not of course everything in it) i do believe there is a way out -or a part of reality that is not the matrix so to speak-this part of reality is primal and eternal and is always and will always be there
gotta stop for a little while-the original i did wasnt this bad and had a lot more in it with some reasons why i think the world around us is a projection or simulation (stuff in history /also a link i need to find about strange number synchronicties in history-not synchmyst-something i had saved to faves and cant find now) put basically a lot of my thinking was along the lines of PKD mixed in with many others-but that at the end of the day no matter how much 'unreal' our world is or gets there will always be this archetypal/causal background that it comes from that is truly infinite and eternal-best to all of you!-Z

[OP ED]

hello zhivkov. hope things are decent. still catching up myself.



(note that from a martian citizen's POV, Phobos and Deimos would appear to travel in opposite directions across the horizon. Phobos rises in the west, moves comparatively rapidly across the sky (in 4 h 15 min or less) and sets in the east, approximately twice a day (every 11 h 6 min).

this is not relevant to anything we've been discussing.