A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:43 am

Originally from the political left, he has moved via anti-Israel rhetoric and the fascist Front National (FN) to the establishment of his own Parti Anti Sioniste (PAS, or Anti-Zionist Party). Alongside him in the PAS is essayist and filmmaker Alain Soral, who underwent a similar journey from the Marxist left to the FN before finding a political home with Dieudonné.


……doesn’t surprise me……despite all this biological determinism crap where would fascism be without all the “Marxist” fuck-ups populating it ….

……( quick list off the top of my head )….


Upon his return to Italy, young Benito was an undistinguished member of the Socialist Party. He began to edit his own little paper, La Lotta di Classe (The Class Struggle), ferociously anti-capitalist, anti-militarist, and anti-Catholic. He took seriously Marx's dictum that the working class has no country, and vigorously opposed the Italian military intervention in Libya. Jailed several times for involvement in strikes and anti-war protests, he became something of a leftist hero. Before turning 30, Mussolini was elected to the National Executive Committee of the Socialist Party, and made editor of its daily paper, Avanti! The paper's circulation and Mussolini's personal popularity grew by leaps and bounds.

Mussolini's election to the Executive was part of the capture of control of the Socialist Party by the hard-line Marxist left, with the expulsion from the Party of those deputies (members of parliament) considered too conciliatory to the bourgeoisie. The shift in Socialist Party control was greeted with delight by Lenin and other revolutionaries throughout the world.

From 1912 to 1914, Mussolini was the Che Guevara of his day, a living saint of leftism. Handsome, courageous, charismatic, an erudite Marxist, a riveting speaker and writer, a dedicated class warrior to the core, he was the peerless duce of the Italian Left. He looked like the head of any future Italian socialist government, elected or revolutionary.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm



Berlin attorney Horst Mahler was a lawyer for the Extra-parliamentary Opposition (APO) at the end of the 1960s, joint founder of the Socialist German Student Federation (SDS) and a member of the terrorist Red Army Faction (RAF). Last weekend he applied to join the neo-fascist National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD).

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/09/red-s01.html



Alexander Raven Thomson (1899 – 1955) (usually known as Raven) was a Scottish politician best known for his membership of the British Union of Fascists and was considered to be the party's chief ideologue. He has been described as the "Alfred Rosenberg of British fascism".

Thomson's political career began with him joining the Communist Party of Great Britain, although his membership did not last long as he rejected notions of historical materialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Raven_Thomson



The close relationship between Crisis and RAR was facilitated by the fact that the punk group's bassist Tony Wakeford was a dues-paying member of the Socialist Workers Party. Equally fortuitously, rhythm guitarist Doug Pearce belonged to the International Marxist Group (Tariq Ali's operation) which helped the band to get Anti-Nazi League gigs, since IMG members worked themselves into positions of power within this broadly based alliance.


http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/dij.htm



Ex SWP music journalist Gary Bushell went on to the “oi” Skinhead movement & the NF


…and of course who could forget the most recent euro-dictator ole’ Slobbo himself :

Milošević went on to study law at the University of Belgrade's Law School, where he became the head of the ideology committee of the Yugoslav Communist League's (SKJ) student branch (SSOJ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:37 am

jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:53 am wrote:
Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:10 am wrote:
I do not even know what 'The Left' is in the U.K. anymore. I see people like Ed Millipede and hear people cocooned in rhetoric and privilege and Islington.



I do use the term 'The Left' quite loosely because it's not very evident in modern British Politics, and possibly should say the traditional Left. Whatever Blair turned his party into, I still thought of it the as 'The Left' as that was their origins.,


Actually, I forgot that you are a Brit (Semper too), in which case you will understand the reference of 'Socialist Worker types', and this is usually my image when I am being less than complementary about the Left (which is a lot of the time nowadays)

I've got into the habit of trying to avoid local references on the internet
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:13 am

semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:43 am wrote:
Originally from the political left, he has moved via anti-Israel rhetoric and the fascist Front National (FN) to the establishment of his own Parti Anti Sioniste (PAS, or Anti-Zionist Party). Alongside him in the PAS is essayist and filmmaker Alain Soral, who underwent a similar journey from the Marxist left to the FN before finding a political home with Dieudonné.


……doesn’t surprise me……despite all this biological determinism crap where would fascism be without all the “Marxist” fuck-ups populating it ….

……( quick list off the top of my head )….


Upon his return to Italy, young Benito was an undistinguished member of the Socialist Party. He began to edit his own little paper, La Lotta di Classe (The Class Struggle), ferociously anti-capitalist, anti-militarist, and anti-Catholic. He took seriously Marx's dictum that the working class has no country, and vigorously opposed the Italian military intervention in Libya. Jailed several times for involvement in strikes and anti-war protests, he became something of a leftist hero. Before turning 30, Mussolini was elected to the National Executive Committee of the Socialist Party, and made editor of its daily paper, Avanti! The paper's circulation and Mussolini's personal popularity grew by leaps and bounds.

Mussolini's election to the Executive was part of the capture of control of the Socialist Party by the hard-line Marxist left, with the expulsion from the Party of those deputies (members of parliament) considered too conciliatory to the bourgeoisie. The shift in Socialist Party control was greeted with delight by Lenin and other revolutionaries throughout the world.

From 1912 to 1914, Mussolini was the Che Guevara of his day, a living saint of leftism. Handsome, courageous, charismatic, an erudite Marxist, a riveting speaker and writer, a dedicated class warrior to the core, he was the peerless duce of the Italian Left. He looked like the head of any future Italian socialist government, elected or revolutionary.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm



Berlin attorney Horst Mahler was a lawyer for the Extra-parliamentary Opposition (APO) at the end of the 1960s, joint founder of the Socialist German Student Federation (SDS) and a member of the terrorist Red Army Faction (RAF). Last weekend he applied to join the neo-fascist National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD).

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/09/red-s01.html



Alexander Raven Thomson (1899 – 1955) (usually known as Raven) was a Scottish politician best known for his membership of the British Union of Fascists and was considered to be the party's chief ideologue. He has been described as the "Alfred Rosenberg of British fascism".

Thomson's political career began with him joining the Communist Party of Great Britain, although his membership did not last long as he rejected notions of historical materialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Raven_Thomson



The close relationship between Crisis and RAR was facilitated by the fact that the punk group's bassist Tony Wakeford was a dues-paying member of the Socialist Workers Party. Equally fortuitously, rhythm guitarist Doug Pearce belonged to the International Marxist Group (Tariq Ali's operation) which helped the band to get Anti-Nazi League gigs, since IMG members worked themselves into positions of power within this broadly based alliance.


http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/dij.htm



Ex SWP music journalist Gary Bushell went on to the “oi” Skinhead movement & the NF


…and of course who could forget the most recent euro-dictator ole’ Slobbo himself :

Milošević went on to study law at the University of Belgrade's Law School, where he became the head of the ideology committee of the Yugoslav Communist League's (SKJ) student branch (SSOJ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87


Excellent point about the flip from top-down, dogmatic Marxist-Leninist groups, to top down, dogmatic racist/fascist groups. That someone from the British SWP would go Nazi Skin is not completely surprising given the SWP's horrible record on rape and accountability of those perpetrators high up on their pyramid, its weak record on immigrant/black leadership and struggle (e.g. white, male Economism comes first), and etc.

Some of that may just be the (disillusioned) true believer mentality, but given the known need for large numbers of infiltrator/informant types from at least the 50's on- I've got to wonder how many of these folks were working for spooky sponsors at some or all points in their political careers- which might make them psychopathic types more than principled political people...
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:27 am

jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:37 pm wrote:
jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:53 am wrote:
Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:10 am wrote:
I do not even know what 'The Left' is in the U.K. anymore. I see people like Ed Millipede and hear people cocooned in rhetoric and privilege and Islington.



I do use the term 'The Left' quite loosely because it's not very evident in modern British Politics, and possibly should say the traditional Left. Whatever Blair turned his party into, I still thought of it the as 'The Left' as that was their origins.,


Actually, I forgot that you are a Brit (Semper too), in which case you will understand the reference of 'Socialist Worker types', and this is usually my image when I am being less than complementary about the Left (which is a lot of the time nowadays)

I've got into the habit of trying to avoid local references on the internet


I think that is a great habit to drop. :sun:

Some reflections:
I was involved part-time with a well known Brit union (IT stuff) and the thing that struck me was... how horribly the 'management' treated the 'workers' - it was at times like a re-enactment of Dilbert but with multiple 'Catbert' types. One could count on the fact that behind one's back, people who you didn't even know would be conspiring to fuck one over, hard. It was a real life case of enantiodromia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiodromia

I had the misfortune to encounter a few Socialist Workers Party types when I was at Uni up in Manchester. They were real 'Citizen Smith' stereotypes and talked in verbal copy pasta and had raging 'emotional B.O.' - their personal worlds were full of fear and their approach to creative thinking (for example in considering alternatives) was that it was 'very very dangerous'.

Later I ran into the nascent Demos think tank - (I was at the launch event) where I discovered a group of folks who were thrilled at the launch of a force for creative thinking - except it had the creative thinking ability of a... <insert rude term of your choice here> -This was in the days of the growth of 'champagne socialism' - it was really like they were speaking an 'insider language'. The 'thought pieces' that emerged from Demos reminded me of the SWP conversations, but with a Politics, Philosophy and Economics degree from Oxford but the same old binary thinking bullshit.
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:29 am

Regarding Spooky sponsors........

John Tyndall's insistence that Combat-18 were mainly an MI5 organisation very likely had some truth to it.

The trouble is that in Tyndall's era, it was very difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff (It's been hard enough under Griffin), so any accurate claims got thrown in with obviously wild ones.

What was certain is that, whatever their sources, on the ground Combat-18 were carrying on the NF/BNP tradition of increasing racial tension and combating the Left, so on a day to day practical basis, there wasn't a lot to grumble about.

ETA: Added 'title' to hint at post's origin.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:37 am

American Dream » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:13 pm wrote:
semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:43 am wrote:
Originally from the political left, he has moved via anti-Israel rhetoric and the fascist Front National (FN) to the establishment of his own Parti Anti Sioniste (PAS, or Anti-Zionist Party). Alongside him in the PAS is essayist and filmmaker Alain Soral, who underwent a similar journey from the Marxist left to the FN before finding a political home with Dieudonné.


……doesn’t surprise me……despite all this biological determinism crap where would fascism be without all the “Marxist” fuck-ups populating it ….

……( quick list off the top of my head )….


Upon his return to Italy, young Benito was an undistinguished member of the Socialist Party. He began to edit his own little paper, La Lotta di Classe (The Class Struggle), ferociously anti-capitalist, anti-militarist, and anti-Catholic. He took seriously Marx's dictum that the working class has no country, and vigorously opposed the Italian military intervention in Libya. Jailed several times for involvement in strikes and anti-war protests, he became something of a leftist hero. Before turning 30, Mussolini was elected to the National Executive Committee of the Socialist Party, and made editor of its daily paper, Avanti! The paper's circulation and Mussolini's personal popularity grew by leaps and bounds.

Mussolini's election to the Executive was part of the capture of control of the Socialist Party by the hard-line Marxist left, with the expulsion from the Party of those deputies (members of parliament) considered too conciliatory to the bourgeoisie. The shift in Socialist Party control was greeted with delight by Lenin and other revolutionaries throughout the world.

From 1912 to 1914, Mussolini was the Che Guevara of his day, a living saint of leftism. Handsome, courageous, charismatic, an erudite Marxist, a riveting speaker and writer, a dedicated class warrior to the core, he was the peerless duce of the Italian Left. He looked like the head of any future Italian socialist government, elected or revolutionary.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm



Berlin attorney Horst Mahler was a lawyer for the Extra-parliamentary Opposition (APO) at the end of the 1960s, joint founder of the Socialist German Student Federation (SDS) and a member of the terrorist Red Army Faction (RAF). Last weekend he applied to join the neo-fascist National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD).

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/09/red-s01.html



Alexander Raven Thomson (1899 – 1955) (usually known as Raven) was a Scottish politician best known for his membership of the British Union of Fascists and was considered to be the party's chief ideologue. He has been described as the "Alfred Rosenberg of British fascism".

Thomson's political career began with him joining the Communist Party of Great Britain, although his membership did not last long as he rejected notions of historical materialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Raven_Thomson



The close relationship between Crisis and RAR was facilitated by the fact that the punk group's bassist Tony Wakeford was a dues-paying member of the Socialist Workers Party. Equally fortuitously, rhythm guitarist Doug Pearce belonged to the International Marxist Group (Tariq Ali's operation) which helped the band to get Anti-Nazi League gigs, since IMG members worked themselves into positions of power within this broadly based alliance.


http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/dij.htm



Ex SWP music journalist Gary Bushell went on to the “oi” Skinhead movement & the NF


…and of course who could forget the most recent euro-dictator ole’ Slobbo himself :

Milošević went on to study law at the University of Belgrade's Law School, where he became the head of the ideology committee of the Yugoslav Communist League's (SKJ) student branch (SSOJ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87


Excellent point about the flip from top-down, dogmatic Marxist-Leninist groups, to top down, dogmatic racist/fascist groups. That someone from the British SWP would go Nazi Skin is not completely surprising given the SWP's horrible record on rape and accountability of those perpetrators high up on their pyramid, its weak record on immigrant/black leadership and struggle (e.g. white, male Economism comes first), and etc.

Some of that may just be the (disillusioned) true believer mentality, but given the known need for large numbers of infiltrator/informant types from at least the 50's on- I've got to wonder how many of these folks were working for spooky sponsors at some or all points in their political careers- which might make them psychopathic types more than principled political people...


Very good points - many of the SWP folks I met had a deep underlying cynicism - at an 'energetic' level, it very much resonated with the later 'Neo-Cons'. The career of choice for SWP people I came across was working as traders in The City. They used the saying (in their more unguarded drunker moments) "If you are not a Communist when you are under 21, you have no heart; if you are a Communist after the age of 21 you have no brain".

It made me a bit allergic to the Left for quite a while, till I discovered Allende...
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:45 am

Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:27 pm wrote:
jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:37 pm wrote:
jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:53 am wrote:
Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:10 am wrote:
I do not even know what 'The Left' is in the U.K. anymore. I see people like Ed Millipede and hear people cocooned in rhetoric and privilege and Islington.



I do use the term 'The Left' quite loosely because it's not very evident in modern British Politics, and possibly should say the traditional Left. Whatever Blair turned his party into, I still thought of it the as 'The Left' as that was their origins.,


Actually, I forgot that you are a Brit (Semper too), in which case you will understand the reference of 'Socialist Worker types', and this is usually my image when I am being less than complementary about the Left (which is a lot of the time nowadays)

I've got into the habit of trying to avoid local references on the internet


I think that is a great habit to drop. :sun:

Some reflections:
I was involved part-time with a well known Brit union (IT stuff) and the thing that struck me was... how horribly the 'management' treated the 'workers' - it was at times like a re-enactment of Dilbert but with multiple 'Catbert' types. One could count on the fact that behind one's back, people who you didn't even know would be conspiring to fuck one over, hard. It was a real life case of enantiodromia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiodromia

I had the misfortune to encounter a few Socialist Workers Party types when I was at Uni up in Manchester. They were real 'Citizen Smith' stereotypes and talked in verbal copy pasta and had raging 'emotional B.O.' - their personal worlds were full of fear and their approach to creative thinking (for example in considering alternatives) was that it was 'very very dangerous'.

Later I ran into the nascent Demos think tank - (I was at the launch event) where I discovered a group of folks who were thrilled at the launch of a force for creative thinking - except it had the creative thinking ability of a... <insert rude term of your choice here> -This was in the days of the growth of 'champagne socialism' - it was really like they were speaking an 'insider language'. The 'thought pieces' that emerged from Demos reminded me of the SWP conversations, but with a Politics, Philosophy and Economics degree from Oxford but the same old binary thinking bullshit.


I'd like to think so, but communication with the wider world is difficult enough at the best of times. Even within Britain there's plenty of room for confusion, like your 'Sepp's', and Slad's 'KAF'.
I did get quite sloppy on BDF, but I'm going to try to sharpen up now, a little self discipline isn't a bad thing.

Regarding your references to the SWP, I totally shared your impression, and I think it is this that made me choose the anarchists over their blatant buffoonery (I like 'emotional BO', being in nursing my own metaphors tend to revolve around incontinence)
Last edited by jakell on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:49 am

Searcher08 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:37 am wrote:
American Dream » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:13 pm wrote:
semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:43 am wrote:
Originally from the political left, he has moved via anti-Israel rhetoric and the fascist Front National (FN) to the establishment of his own Parti Anti Sioniste (PAS, or Anti-Zionist Party). Alongside him in the PAS is essayist and filmmaker Alain Soral, who underwent a similar journey from the Marxist left to the FN before finding a political home with Dieudonné.


……doesn’t surprise me……despite all this biological determinism crap where would fascism be without all the “Marxist” fuck-ups populating it ….

……( quick list off the top of my head )….


Upon his return to Italy, young Benito was an undistinguished member of the Socialist Party. He began to edit his own little paper, La Lotta di Classe (The Class Struggle), ferociously anti-capitalist, anti-militarist, and anti-Catholic. He took seriously Marx's dictum that the working class has no country, and vigorously opposed the Italian military intervention in Libya. Jailed several times for involvement in strikes and anti-war protests, he became something of a leftist hero. Before turning 30, Mussolini was elected to the National Executive Committee of the Socialist Party, and made editor of its daily paper, Avanti! The paper's circulation and Mussolini's personal popularity grew by leaps and bounds.

Mussolini's election to the Executive was part of the capture of control of the Socialist Party by the hard-line Marxist left, with the expulsion from the Party of those deputies (members of parliament) considered too conciliatory to the bourgeoisie. The shift in Socialist Party control was greeted with delight by Lenin and other revolutionaries throughout the world.

From 1912 to 1914, Mussolini was the Che Guevara of his day, a living saint of leftism. Handsome, courageous, charismatic, an erudite Marxist, a riveting speaker and writer, a dedicated class warrior to the core, he was the peerless duce of the Italian Left. He looked like the head of any future Italian socialist government, elected or revolutionary.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm



Berlin attorney Horst Mahler was a lawyer for the Extra-parliamentary Opposition (APO) at the end of the 1960s, joint founder of the Socialist German Student Federation (SDS) and a member of the terrorist Red Army Faction (RAF). Last weekend he applied to join the neo-fascist National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD).

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/09/red-s01.html



Alexander Raven Thomson (1899 – 1955) (usually known as Raven) was a Scottish politician best known for his membership of the British Union of Fascists and was considered to be the party's chief ideologue. He has been described as the "Alfred Rosenberg of British fascism".

Thomson's political career began with him joining the Communist Party of Great Britain, although his membership did not last long as he rejected notions of historical materialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Raven_Thomson



The close relationship between Crisis and RAR was facilitated by the fact that the punk group's bassist Tony Wakeford was a dues-paying member of the Socialist Workers Party. Equally fortuitously, rhythm guitarist Doug Pearce belonged to the International Marxist Group (Tariq Ali's operation) which helped the band to get Anti-Nazi League gigs, since IMG members worked themselves into positions of power within this broadly based alliance.


http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/dij.htm



Ex SWP music journalist Gary Bushell went on to the “oi” Skinhead movement & the NF


…and of course who could forget the most recent euro-dictator ole’ Slobbo himself :

Milošević went on to study law at the University of Belgrade's Law School, where he became the head of the ideology committee of the Yugoslav Communist League's (SKJ) student branch (SSOJ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87


Excellent point about the flip from top-down, dogmatic Marxist-Leninist groups, to top down, dogmatic racist/fascist groups. That someone from the British SWP would go Nazi Skin is not completely surprising given the SWP's horrible record on rape and accountability of those perpetrators high up on their pyramid, its weak record on immigrant/black leadership and struggle (e.g. white, male Economism comes first), and etc.

Some of that may just be the (disillusioned) true believer mentality, but given the known need for large numbers of infiltrator/informant types from at least the 50's on- I've got to wonder how many of these folks were working for spooky sponsors at some or all points in their political careers- which might make them psychopathic types more than principled political people...


Very good points - many of the SWP folks I met had a deep underlying cynicism - at an 'energetic' level, it very much resonated with the later 'Neo-Cons'. The career of choice for SWP people I came across was working as traders in The City. They used the saying (in their more unguarded drunker moments) "If you are not a Communist when you are under 21, you have no heart; if you are a Communist after the age of 21 you have no brain".

It made me a bit allergic to the Left for quite a while, till I discovered Allende...


I often say that some of the best people I ever met in my life are ex-members of Marxist-Leninist vanguard parties, i.e. they are folks who cared about making the world a better place and had a fairly incisive analysis of the institutional problems (Authority, excepting).

To a very limited degree, this may sometimes be true for young recruits for the racist/fascist cause, i.e. they know something is wrong and they want to make it right. Problem is, their map of Reality is thoroughly bogus...
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:06 am

American Dream » 14 Feb 2014 13:13 wrote:given the known need for large numbers of infiltrator/informant types from at least the 50's on- I've got to wonder how many of these folks were working for spooky sponsors at some or all points in their political careers- which might make them psychopathic types more than principled political people...


.....yes, absolutley.....the spooks will be bumping up the numbers, no doubt …..

.........otoh I didn't bother counting in Mosley as he was such a transparently unprincipled chancer & opportunist.....or the “fuck the lot of ‘em ” brigade who just go from revolutionary poliitical avant-gardiste to back-stabbing careerist or even oh say dodgy property developer in a suit & tie….…the ones who swap one iron-clad political religion for a totally different one are more interesting “cases” I reckon…


....I keep starting & building up this "list" of L > R trajectories & it gets pretty bloody long before indolence sets in ...........even longer once you add in the ultra-conservatives :

Rabid thatcherites like her spin-doctor Bernard Inhgam & intellectual guru Sir Alfred Sherman and journalists like Peter Hitchens & Paul Johnson
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:16 am

semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:06 pm wrote:
American Dream » 14 Feb 2014 13:13 wrote:given the known need for large numbers of infiltrator/informant types from at least the 50's on- I've got to wonder how many of these folks were working for spooky sponsors at some or all points in their political careers- which might make them psychopathic types more than principled political people...


.....yes, absolutley.....the spooks will be bumping up the numbers, no doubt …..

.........otoh I didn't bother counting in Mosley as he was such a transparently unprincipled chancer & opportunist.....or the “fuck the lot of ‘em ” brigade who just go from revolutionary poliitical avant-gardiste to back-stabbing careerist or even oh say dodgy property developer in a suit & tie….…the ones who swap one iron-clad political religion for a totally different one are more interesting “cases” I reckon…


....I keep starting & building up this "list" of L > R trajectories & it gets pretty bloody long before indolence sets in ...........even longer once you add in the ultra-conservatives :

Rabid thatcherites like her spin-doctor Thatcher’s press secretary Bernard Inhgam & intellectual guru Sir Alfred Sherman and journalists like Peter Hitchens & Paul Johnson


I've been wondering when Mosley was going to get a mention, he's been curiously absent from a thread that seems to dwell mostly on the UK end of The Far Right.

He hardly ever seems to get a mention by the actual Far Right either, except when discussing history. The closest I came was a group called 'European Action' which never got much attention due to British Nationalist's distrust of things Contintental (in spite of noises about European Unity).

I'd be interested to hear from folks on the Continent here as I'm already familiar with UK stuff.
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:23 am

semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:06 am wrote:
American Dream » 14 Feb 2014 13:13 wrote:given the known need for large numbers of infiltrator/informant types from at least the 50's on- I've got to wonder how many of these folks were working for spooky sponsors at some or all points in their political careers- which might make them psychopathic types more than principled political people...


.....yes, absolutley.....the spooks will be bumping up the numbers, no doubt …..

.........otoh I didn't bother counting in Mosley as he was such a transparently unprincipled chancer & opportunist.....or the “fuck the lot of ‘em ” brigade who just go from revolutionary poliitical avant-gardiste to back-stabbing careerist or even oh say dodgy property developer in a suit & tie….…the ones who swap one iron-clad political religion for a totally different one are more interesting “cases” I reckon…


....I keep starting & building up this "list" of L > R trajectories & it gets pretty bloody long before indolence sets in ...........even longer once you add in the ultra-conservatives :

Rabid thatcherites like her spin-doctor Bernard Inhgam & intellectual guru Sir Alfred Sherman and journalists like Peter Hitchens & Paul Johnson


I've known a few like these- perhaps it is the holes left by a shallow Left culture that provides room for the more sophisticated racist/fascist come-ons to operate, which is why I think we need a better, more real alternative- where non-Authoritarian organization meets a solidly anti-racist, non-nationalist, grassroots class struggle position mobilized for the collective liberation of all of us oppressed people.

Although he's not perfect, Richard Seymour- who had the intelligence and independence of thought to leave the British SWP over the recent rape scandal- provide here a much better example with some thoughtful ideas on strategy for anti-racist organizing:

From the EDL to what? On anti-racism strategy

I. The EDL may be finished, its method of street demonstrations having run out of steam according to its former orange eminence, Tommy Robinson. The scattered forces of the far right may be declining - if still resourceful, still too numerous, still dangerous. However sanguine our assumptions on this point may be, though, the wider situation is as toxic as it has ever been, fertile ground for a more effective populist-racist formation. The strong performance of UKIP demonstrates this potential. This new organisation Robinson intends to form with his wooden double act, Kevin Carroll, backed by his comprador allies, the state-sponsored ex-Islamist Qilliam Foundation, will surely seek to plough the same terrain.

II. The EDL was formed in 2009, fusing a number of heterogeneous energies. In one sense, it was a belated expression of a certain type of ‘war on terror’ politics, defending good old British boys against Anjem Choudary’s coffin-botherers. In another, it represented a perverse reanimation of Ulster Loyalism in the English context - the slogan ‘no surrender’ being taken straight from the death squads of the dear six counties. But it also represented the failure of New Labour’s ‘Britishness’ project. Having English, Scottish and Welsh defence leagues was not merely a function of basing the organisation on football casuals and thus deferring to the national division of teams. It underlined just how the axis of xenophobic nationalism had shifted. It also very effectively drew upon and organised the popular mytheme of ‘the white working class’ - supposedly ignored by liberal elites, abused by multicultural politicians, and oppressed by political correctness. This ideology initially began to be articulated under New Labour, and represented a right-ward shift within the Blairite section of the ideological-state apparatuses. But as with so much material that begins life as part of a neoliberal triangulation strategy, it was far more potent in the hands of bovver boys. At the core of it, of course, is the EDL’s contention that Islam is ‘extremist’, that it wages a genocidal war on all Christians, and as such represents an enemy within ‘Christian’ or ‘Western civilisation’. The spread of this style of thinking, conspiracism, is linked to the rise of political paranoia in an increasingly competitive, dog-eat-dog social world. At any rate, this interpellation of ‘culture’ - or a racialised conception of culture - into the political terrain of post-credit crunch Britain achieved one very salient effect. It articulated the concrete experiences of decline - relative national, imperialist decline; economic decline; the declining living standards of workers and a section of the middle class - within a single narrative of resentment structured by Islamophobia. The EDL’s narrative obliquely ‘mentioned’ real social facts, and provided a schema through which supporters could live their relationship to those facts. And of course, it mobilised those supporters to address the ostensible ‘cause’ of those facts in what was at first a highly effective strategy of street mobilisations with football casuals at their core.

III. This immediately posed a unique kind of challenge to traditional anti-fascist strategy in the UK, as the pivot on which a wider anti-racist politics turned. The logic went something like this: fascists are both the most dangerous spearhead of racist reaction and potentially its weakest point. We can and should mobilise the broadest possible unity against the far right; in doing so we have to challenge their racism and we can force our allies in this fight to adopt a more consistently anti-racist position. Of course, even where we do not succeed in this wider objective, a conjunctural defeat for fascism is no small thing. However, the EDL, for all that it knowingly drew in significant strata of the old far right, never became a fascist organisation. This is why the formulations from the SWP and UAF were, some slips notwithstanding, generally very careful: for example, the EDL was “a racist organisation with Nazis at its core”. It resembled a fascist organisation in some respects. For example, its emphasis on control of the streets. Or, its forms of alcohol-greased, macho solidarity, its rabble-paramilitarism. Or, its focus on visual communication and symbolism invoking a cod national mythology (the crusades). Or, finally, the fitful tendencies of the EDL leadership to try to broaden its range of targets (to include students, for example) so that its counter-subversive activities begin to vaguely resemble traditional fascist anticommunism. Yet, it did not become a fascist organisation dedicated to the overthrow of parliamentary democracy and the smashing of workers organisations. In its overall make-up, its strategy, its ideological orientation, it was closer to Geert Wilders, a populist-rightist on the far right of liberal democracy, than to Nick Griffin. And the existence of such an ambiguous, ‘contradictory’, hybrid formation posed, as I say, a challenge to the anti-fascist strategy. The tactical response of antifascists, sensible in its way, was to treat the EDL as a kind of fascism-in-becoming. Since fascism was its telos, it had to be dealt with as would any fascist organisation operating in the same way: broad antifascist coalitions harnessed, where possible, to a strategy of militant confrontation led by the radical wing of the antifascist movement. This usefully limited the EDL’s physical advances, in part by forcing the police to adopt different containment strategies, and among other factors it helped prevent their demonstrations from acquiring a certain critical mass. However, this was only ever useful as a holding response. The underlying problem was that the EDL were building on ideologies that were profoundly mainstream. This is why the media, and certain politicians, can often be found treating the EDL as if they were merely misguided and pursuing counterproductive strategies. And a strategy of harassing the EDL without also doing work on the underlying political and ideological ground could only ever yield short term results.

IV. The fight against racism is a long-term fight that has to be conducted on many different levels. It is not just a question of winning immediate political battles - a glorious victory in Walthamstow or whatever. The tempo of political struggles is extremely rapid, and the half-life of a particular struggle can be very brief indeed. But these struggles are fought on a terrain formed by years of cultural and ideological work, between forces shaped by that same work over a long duration. The tempo of cultural and ideological battles is, compared to political fights, glacial. But just because there are no immediate successes in these fronts doesn't mean they are of no value - they are absolutely central. The intense racist backlash around the English riots, or that following the Woolwich killing, was not inevitable. Such episodes take place on the basis of efforts by diverse forces to elaborate new racist ideologies over a long period.

V. We cannot fight the EDL without also combatting the other major forces of racism in society. The EDL would be nothing without the tabloids, the police, the neoliberal parties in parliament, and so on. The ideologies which legitimise the EDL's actions or at least render them as explicable reactions to extreme provocation, originate in Whitehall, the BBC, the press, parliament and the business funders of reaction. And to defeat those forces we need a different range of tactics. The EDL is primarily based on street violence, so the onus is on counter-mobilisation and self-defence. The same tactics could not be deployed against UKIP, the Murdoch press, or the Home Office. I don't propose a smorgasbord of alternative tactics here; I merely highlight the need for something more than counter-mobilisations.

VI. There is no future in attempting to collapse anti-racism into anti-austerity struggles. Such attempts represent a strain of workerism, and have emerged from some surprising quarters - including Alexis Tsipras. Racism does not simply emerge as a displaced form of despair over deprivation or insecurity. Its development and spread may be accelerated by profound political crisis, the breakdown of authority, crises of overproduction, financial collapses, and so on. As I have suggested, one of the things that EDL racism organises is the experience of certain social classes in the context of crisis and decline. And certainly, as a consequence, the struggles over the capitalist crisis and its resolution have a relationship to the struggle against racism: this means that initiatives such as Left Unity and the People's Assembly should take anti-racism seriously as a semi-autonomous component of their broader strategy. But to understand the relationship between racism, economic crisis and emerging political subjectivities requires an analysis light years ahead of the lingering 'capitalist crisis = hard times = racism' model.

VII. There can likewise be no attempt to collapse anti-racism into the antiwar movement, such as it is. That is no less reductive. For example, the analyses of the Woolwich killing that attempt to ascribe it to the 'war on terror', and therefore to orient analysis primarily toward antiwar activism, strike me as unconvincing. Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale certainly seem to have responded to the context of the 'war on terror', and to have explained their actions in that context. But the processes through which they decided to join the most marginal and militant of Islamist sects in the first place are likely to be rooted in the daily processes of British capitalism. We need to fight and win that argument: that Britain is a profoundly racist and unjust society in which black people are humiliated and deprived in all sorts of highly visible ways. More generally, the forces of racist reaction in our society are not monomaniacally obsessed with the categories of the ‘war on terror’. UKIP, for example, is Islamophopic, but just as importantly it is anti-immigrant and xenophobically anti-European. There is a rich brew of bigotries fusing together in provincial, parochial England, and their specific relationship to the daily workings of capitalism must be grasped as well as their imbrication with imperialist violence.

VIII. It's been obvious for a while, and it is more obvious now. One cannot segment off different types of racism as if they are completely separate; they are mutually reinforcing. The rise in Islamophobia, as we saw during the riots, and as is becoming clear from the intriguing raciologies arising from the Woolwich killing - the EDL speaker in Newcastle urged his audience to "send the black cunts back" - is not exclusive of a long-term regeneration of other types of racism. Indeed, Islamophobia's role as the dominant form of culturalist racism permits the rehabilitation of the discredited elements of racial essentialism, while at the same time articulating them in a new form. What this means is not simply that Islamophobia is simply a cover for 'traditional' types of racism. It used to be argued that it was merely a way of being racist toward Pakistanis. No, current forms of racism do not simply reanimate older forms. As Stuart Hall put it, "Racism is always historically specific. Though it may draw on the cultural traces deposited by previous historical phases, it always takes on specific forms. It arises out of present - not past - conditions, its effects are specific to the present organisation of society, to the present unfolding of its dynamic political and cultural processes - not simply to its repressed past." The current forms of racism refer to and organise current antagonisms, expressed in complex political struggles, from the 2001 riots to the 2012 riots. And there is something very specific about Islamophobia and its content - the obsession with religious identities, with the amateurish hermeneutics of the Quran, and so on - something very current. The point is not that Islamophobia is a cover, but rather that there is a convergence in the techniques of racialisation, the political forces involved, and the ideational content involved in the types of racism in Britain today. I think this means that it would a political mistake to try to identify one type of racism as the 'respectable racism' and simply campaign against that - the tendency is for racism in general to be made 'more respectable', and therefore we need a multi-pronged assault on racism in general.
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:54 am

At last, an essay that describes the waning of British Nationalism, which makes a welcome change from a great deal of the shrill scare stuff and overinflation of past realities (and even some of them were overinflated)

The next step is to discover what has happened to these characters, and I have a modicum of insight into this. I say a modicum because a lot of them dropped out of the internet magnifying glass at around the start of 2013, or rather the group I was watching did.

All anecdotal I know, but only so much can be patched together from seemingly endless articles on them, which is why I personally decided to take a closer look.
" Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism"
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:00 am

...do you know Larry O'Hara....?
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:09 am

semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:00 am wrote:...do you know Larry O'Hara....?


I'm not very familiar with him at all but my superficial impression is that he may know some things but that he lacks nuance, i.e. he is given to overblown and/or totalistic arguments...


ON EDIT: Upon a bit more reading he seems like a somewhat imbalanced/loose cannon type. That said, some of those he criticizes are so clearly smarmy, that he can' be all wrong either...
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Re: A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

Postby jakell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:09 pm

semper occultus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:00 pm wrote:...do you know Larry O'Hara....?

Not until now, but a search has brought up some stuff.

While I was on BDF, I was seeing a lot of BNPers (etc) washing their dirty laundry in public, it was satisfying, entertaining and informative. It was the place to be for a while., Due to this I wasn't taking much notice of what 'outside' researchers had to say.

Now I've come away from all that, I may turn back to this sort of stuff. TBH though, I had intended a relatively clean break coming here, but to my surprise it was the first thing I encountered**, albeit rather one dimensional and overblown at times. When you live up close to these things, as we do in the UK, you have to learn to have a cooler eye.

**Maybe life is trying to tell me something
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