Neo-Nazis On 4Chan Ready New Poster Campaign to Target Women’s Studies Departments on January 21st
Neo-Nazis and Alt-Right trolls organizing on Discord and 4chan are planning to follow up the spread of flyers and memes featuring the saying, “It’s Okay to Be White,” with newer anti-immigrant posters and stickers on January 21st. The It’s Okay to Be White campaign, which started on neo-Nazi message boards, was embraced by Swanson fortune aire Tucker Carlson and Alt-Lite so-called “Merchant Right” Z-list celebrities like Milo Yiannopoulos, Lucian Wintrich, and Kyle “Based Stickman” Chapman.
An MRA Edited the Women Out of 'The Last Jedi' and It's as Bad as You Think
None of that, however, stops The Chauvinist Cut from achieving what is probably its most unintentional goal: making the world's dullest, most perplexing piece of homoerotic fanfiction.
"The Last Jedi homoerotic fanfiction" sounds great in theory, but The Chauvinist Cut is both boring and chaste. (It doesn't help that the topless scene with Kylo Ren has been taken out completely.) The bulk of the 'film' consists of men speaking to each other, brooding over each other, staring intensely into each other’s eyes, and sacrificing themselves for each other. At one point, Hux captures Finn and slaps him. Until that edited scene, I'd never before noticed that Hux is styled like a masc Berlin DJ waiting in line to get into Berghain—but it totally works for him. The same goes for Supreme Leader Snoke, who basically spends the entire film lounging around in a golden embroidered robe and surrounded by bodyguards in kinky red latex.
Matthew Heimbach's neo-Nazi group tries to co-opt anti-abortion protest in Tennessee
January 19, 2018 Nick R. Martin
Neo-Nazis from the Traditionalist Worker Party (TWP) are hoping to join with anti-abortion demonstrators on Sunday in Knoxville, Tennessee, to counter that city’s participation in the nationwide Women’s March.
Paul Joseph Watson: ‘Me Too’ Movement Has Been Co-Opted By Conspiracy To Demoralize Men
By Jared Holt | January 24, 2018 12:33 pm
Paul Joseph Watson, a popular right-wing commentator on YouTube and Infowars editor-at-large, uploaded a video in which he claims that the “Me Too” movement, in which women are sharing their stories of sexual assault and the sexual misconduct of men in power, has been co-opted by a greater conspiratorial agenda to “annihilate the fundamental structure of western society.”
In the video uploaded yesterday, titled “The War on Men,” Watson breaks down the different ways he believes that advertisers, news media and clothing manufacturers are contributing to the demoralization of white men in society. As part of his explanation, Watson mentions that he believes the “Me Too” movement has been co-opted by those leading the demoralization effort.
“We’re mass unwitting participants in a huge social engineering experiment based around vilifying masculinity and de-moralizing men, and the ‘Me Too’ movement has been co-opted to serve that agenda,” Watson said.
“What kind of warped scheme needs to dilute or destroy masculinity and traditional gender roles to succeed? One that seeks to completely annihilate the fundamental structure of western society, so the annihilators can completely remake it in their own image,” Watson claimed. “This is about the pursuit of raw power. This is Marxism rebranded. Identity politics, the very ideology that belittles and denigrates men—particularly white men—is just a new form of an old Marxist trick: divide and conquer.”
Watson goes on to claim that the social forces he believes are to blame for vilifying men have “convinced themselves that fundamental biological science is a grand conspiracy invented by the patriarchy … and now they’re going to convince everyone else by law, by force, by silencing dissent, and by mass indoctrination.”
GOP Senate candidate flips out over ‘women’s rights’: ‘I want to come home to a cooked dinner every night’
25 JAN 2018
Courtland Sykes (Facebook)
Republican U.S. Senate candidate for Missouri Courtland Sykes blasted “women’s rights” this week.
In a statement posted to Facebook on Tuesday, Sykes said that he had been asked if he “supports women’s rights.”
“I want to come home to a home cooked dinner every night at six,” Sykes said, referring to demands he makes of his girlfriend. “One that she fixes and one that I expect one day to have daughters learn to fix after they become traditional homemakers and family wives.”
According to Sykes, feminists push an agenda that they “made up to suit their own nasty snake-filled heads.”
The candidate said that he hoped his daughters do not grow up to be “career obsessed banshees who forgo home life and children and the happiness of family to become nail-biting manophobic hell-bent feminist she devils who shriek from the top of a thousand tall buildings they are [SIC] think they could have leaped in a single bound — had men not been ‘suppressing them.’ It’s just nuts.”
Sykes ended his rant by insisting that he supports women’s rights “but not the kind that has suppressed natural womanhood for five long decades.”
“But good news,” he concluded. “They’re finished. Ask Hillary.”
Read the statment below.
White Nationalists Explain How Cuckoldry Destroys Families And America
On yesterday’s episode of Reality Calls, Tara McCarthy invited on several guests to talk about the most important issue facing white people today: cuckolding.
Bre Faucheux chalked up the existence of cuckoldry to their “enemies” who “don’t want strong family units.
The Malignant Melancholy
There are, broadly, two kinds of structural lonelinesses. One is the benign loneliness of the socially alienated, the other the malignant melancholy of the erstwhile master.
By AMBA AZAAD JANUARY 29, 2018
After Dušan Makavejev
LET us begin by citing an authoritative man: According to Vivek H. Murthy, a former American surgeon general, the world is awash with an epidemic of loneliness. “This isn’t just bad for our health; it’s also bad for business,” he writes, filled with concern that half of the CEOs Harvard Business Review surveyed are lonely. Sad white men seem to concur, writing essays filled with dire citations about how extremely lonely men, specifically, as a gender, are. Billy Baker in the Boston Globe offers the profound observation that men can’t maintain bromances over the phone, while Stephen Thomas in Hazlitt sums up his excruciatingly blinkered essay by reassuring Men Like Him that it’s “normal” (meaning Not Gay) to want intimacy. Not that being gay helps, even if you’re an assimilated cis white man, as Michael Hobbs mourns in the Huffington Post.
An illness becomes an epidemic, and therefore worthy of attention, when enough of the right kind of victims—cis/straight/well-off/white/western/men—begin to suffer from it. This was true of PTSD and AIDS, and now is the turn of loneliness. There exists a literary history of loneliness, one that treats the affliction as proof of a tragic genius too good and pure for this world. This history is a rarified Men’s Club that only occasionally will suffer the entrance of an Emily Dickinson or a Virginia Woolf. Lonely women, on the other hand, who talk about the labors of seeking companionship to alleviate the practical hazards of solitude, are inevitably either relegated to the confessional personal narrative or self-deprecatingly turned into objects of derisive humour—Mrs. Bennet husband-hunting for her daughters or Bridget Jones hunting for one for herself in order to avoid being eaten by Alsatians after a lonely death. When men talk about their collective loneliness, doctors and business magazines must pay attention—profit margins, after all, are very likely to be affected.
It wasn’t until 1980, when forcibly drafted American men were returning from the Vietnam War complaining of nightmares, anxiety, anger, depression, and poor responsiveness, that the term PTSD was added to the DSM. Popular histories of the illness draw its ancestry from diagnoses of shell shock, battle fatigue, and “operational exhaustion.” This lineage exposes the biases of those who issue diagnoses—a predominantly male medical and psychological establishment that only recognizes patterns of trauma in male survivors of military violence. Only after its formal naming was PTSD slowly acknowledged to be a condition suffered “also” by female survivors of marital abuse or incestuous rape who previously were diagnosed as hysterical, febrile, or pathological liars. Even now, the default image of a male PTSD victim is that of a white American soldier rather than a brown or black refugee, or victim of state violence. Similarly, in the past few years women have begun a pushback against the supposedly universal diagnostic standards of ADHD. (Dr. Ellen Littman points out how symptoms like hyperactivity are gender skewed and therefore work to invisibilize girls whose symptoms veer more toward inattentiveness and disorganization.) Meanwhile, women are dying at twice the rate of men of undiagnosed heart attacks because their symptoms, like jaw and upper-back pain, indigestion, and nausea, don’t match the “textbook symptoms” of chest and left-arm pain in books written exclusively about cis men. The pathologization—and therefore governance—of loneliness (nonprofits set up, research funds allocated, street-theater interventions commissioned, et al.) follows this pattern of centering the tribulations of privileged men as cause for concern and the default universal definition of the problem.
Men, compounded by straightness and whiteness as applicable, are the worst theorists of loneliness. They operate from the mind-boggling assumption that there must be something structurally wrong with the world if they are faced with any indication that it does not wish to keep company with them. They can fathom no structural reasons as to why they might be deemed unwanted. Even the U.K.-based Campaign to End Loneliness (which does useful work focused on the demographic of aged people of all genders) claims that “nobody who wants company should be without it.” If you try, however, to apply this logic to childcare, health care, a minimum wage, or housing, you’ll be told that there are structural reasons why your needs are impractical. And pointing out that sex workers, like massage- and psychotherapists, are also in the business of treating loneliness and should therefore be able to negotiate for ethical recompense just leads to morality lectures. Companionship for men, as patriarchy tells us, is the natural order of things, and there must be something terribly wrong if a Regular Nice Guy has to pay for it.
Because straight white men refuse to recognize their own unpalatability, they come up with solutions to loneliness that appropriate the rhetoric of justice- and freedom-based ideologies without actually engaging in any rigorous structural analyses of their culpability in oppression. They don’t want revolutionary change but merely a polite tolerance that would make them more bearable. And this selfishness renders them incompetent to address the structures of loneliness as a social ill.
There are, broadly, two kinds of structural lonelinesses. One is the benign loneliness of the socially alienated, the other the malignant melancholy of the erstwhile master.
The loneliness of the oppressed is the condition of being exiled, being shunned, or having to flee relationship and community structures that have become abusive. All support structures can warp under toxicity, and family and community are especially vulnerable to the impositions of structural oppressions because of the unrelenting intimacy they demand from their constituents. The violence that patriarchy, casteism, racism, capitalism, and cisheterocentrism enact is multifaceted, but all of these structural oppressions remove the nourishment of companionship from the spaces they operate in. To be oppressed by any of these is to encounter loneliness.
Domestic-abuse survivors, migrant laborers, queer young people, religious minorities, ethnic transplants, non-men in organized workforces, people living with disabilities either physical or mental: These are some of the people who have loneliness thrust upon them. They are punished, as an identity, for existing, because prejudiced people with structural power around them reject them. That they face multiple kinds of bigotries, violences, and dehumanizations does not detract from the severity of the loneliness imposed on them, and to not notice that amidst all their other problems and griefs that they are also lonely, as soul-churningly lonely as any sad white boy with an MFA, is part of the crime humanity commits against itself.
Another social pattern of loneliness is particularly wretched because it is deemed a self-imposed choice by an indifferent observer. This is the loneliness we have to choose in order to protect our bodily needs: sexual safety, privacy, self-identity, self-worth, freedom, integrity. An epidemic that no surgeon general seems to have thought to talk about is that of domestic violence and partner rape. Men are often in the habit of asking why women choose to stay in abusive relationships. It does not occur to them that the oft cited “prolonged loneliness being equivalent to 15 cigarettes a day” might be a factor, in addition to every other indirect isolating consequence like financial vulnerability and societal disapproval. There is some—albeit scarce—visibility given to the loneliness of women surrounded by men—outliers in white-collar jobs, visitors to segregated spaces, travelers on the street, migrants in phallic territory. But there is almost no structural cognizance taken of the loneliness of women trapped inside family spaces. Public policy takes note of the elderly who live on their own and who are lonely because they have no caregivers. But what about the loneliness of those deemed caretakers? What structural analysis of loneliness accounts for mothers trapped in a space where their predominant relationship is with an immature individual who provides no reciprocal caretaking? What public cost calculation is made regarding the loneliness of children across the world whose biological families have to leave them without adequate care in pursuit of subsistence-level employment? What health care is being provided to treat the loneliness on both sides of international remittance economies across the globe?
The other kind of structural loneliness—that of the erstwhile master—is a side effect of resistance and victory. Which is not to say that MRAs are justified in blaming their loneliness on feminists but rather that their alienation is a symptom of the malignant misogyny that feminism has finally been able to diagnose and quarantine for. The modern male urgency to calculate the economic burden of their loneliness is appropriated from the struggle to ensure men pay a fair price for the care work they need to alleviate it.
The beneficiaries of oppression—which is to say people in power—have no idea how to meet their social and emotional needs from equals, because they have had subordinates to fulfill them all along. Both in feudal systems of ownership and capitalist structures of employment, men have been set up to unfairly consume labor along the fault lines of caste, race, class, and gender. Social relationship structures have mirrored these systems of entitlement; the family, for example, as a patriarchal structure set up to meet the emotional and physical needs of the man without reciprocation. The great battles of the past few centuries against casteism, racism, classism, and capitalism, while still ongoing, have succeeded to a degree in denying entitled men the care work of enslaved labor. Similarly, as women and children acquire the financial, legal, and cultural ability to free themselves from abusive or simply unrewarding families, men lose captive labor.
The more obvious components of captive labor are caretaking: having someone meet your physical needs, feed your culinary and carnal appetites, provide sanitary and medical attention. But the emotional exploitation of captive labor is what those in power use as a palliative for loneliness. To be lonely is to feel unnoticed and unrecognized, and those in power exploit their position to demand attention: bitching about neighbors to their servants, venting about traffic to chauffeurs, yelling at PAs about stupid coworkers, bloviating about politics while someone else clears the dinner table, taking up space with knees and elbows on public transportation so others are forced to touch them, expecting a smile in addition to service. Still worse is the sordid ordinariness of externalizing violence in any form upon those more vulnerable, from demanding a smile from strangers on the street to sex tourism.
Patriarchy teaches men to alleviate their emotional needs through unequal relationships, rewarding the construction of toxic hierarchies in families, workspaces, and social arenas. When we start dismantling the inequalities between spouses, employees, and fellow citizens, the diminishing powerful have no skills to build relationships of mutual care work with equals. Their loneliness is a way station: a place to take stock in their investment in decolonization and come to terms with their complicity in oppression. Learning how to socialize as a way to survive begins young for women, for religious, racial, and ethnic minorities, for queer and trans people. What lonely entitled men are really asking for is to be cocooned from the life experiences that give other people the skills to survive loneliness.
It is imperative to resist the disproportionate foregrounding of cishet male loneliness because the structurally oppressed manifest their benign loneliness symptoms differently from those who suffer from the malignant disease of thwarted entitlement. Buried inside the lonely-men essays is the threat disguised as suggestion that we feel concern for Lonely Men because Lonely Men can turn violent. This is a red herring in much the same way that alcoholism is used as an excuse for male violence; the problem isn’t alcohol or loneliness but patriarchal masculinity. Meanwhile no surgeon general is declaring racism or misogyny to be an epidemic despite the increasing number of people literally being killed by men “suffering” from these states of mind. It takes a special kind of self-centeredness to be able to cite stats that show that marriage hurts women’s life expectancy and continue to advocate it as a solution to save lonely men instead of trying to fix the toxic husband syndrome that is killing women. Men who demand that women concern themselves with the problem of lonely men in order to ensure their own safety are issuing the same hackneyed threats that patriarchy entrenches—a disguised demand that women invest their energy in socializing boys, in dating men, in doing even more care work than we already do.
Looking at some of the funded programs tackling the “epidemic” it becomes clear that creating spaces where men can feel free to be misogynists is one of the effects of how men warp community responses to loneliness. The first Men’s Shed—a community space where mostly older men could get together to work with their hands and socialize—was set up in Australia in 1998 and by 2010 was receiving funding from the Australian government under its National Male Health Policy. (There are no Men’s Sheds for any of the men trapped in Australia’s detention centers for the crime of being refugees on a boat.) According to the U.K. Men’s Shed Association the rate of growth of Men’s Sheds is between six and nine new sheds a month. (The U.K. government is planning to remove domestic-abuse shelters from housing benefits. On average in England men kill two women a week.) Public policy approves of self-segregating spaces with “old-fashioned mateship and . . . no pressure” (a liability-free way to say “No Homo No Feminist Cooties”) where men can be cajoled and lured into being cared for. Meanwhile sex workers, drug users, and transgender people are more likely to be harassed and jailed by police than be provided with spaces where they can be gently encouraged to talk about their loneliness.
Even though there’s scientific evidence that older people’s brains benefit from learning “something that is unfamiliar, and which requires prolonged and active mental engagement as you cultivate a new set of behaviors,” none of the men saving men seem to think of teaching men feminism. Or noncompetitive dancing instead of walking football. Or even just how to talk face to face. (Women’s magazines have been filled with helpful tips on how to attract a man for decades; perhaps the forlorn gentlemen looking for companionship might start with those?) In spite of all the studies pointing out how aged women have better coping skills—and, therefore, health—than aged men, toxic masculinity has conspired to misrepresent the happy ending of crones, hags, and witches as a scary fairytale. No lonely men talk about parenting, or about helping their male parent friends socialize their male kids in a less toxic fashion. All of them turn for advice to psychologists and sociologist experts, none suggest taking relationship advice from the demographic they keep citing as doing it better—women.
Individual loneliness is a fickle, nebulous sensation. Like other emotions, it is deeply situational—it makes a difference whether you feel lonely because every time you walk down the street a slur is shouted at you or you feel lonely because the spouse you beat every third night has finally left you. As individuals we are not owed freedom from loneliness any more than we can demand love from those we want it from. But collectively we can recognize patterns of loneliness as symptoms of awful structural injustices. And we can use our loneliness as impetus to work toward systems that ethically meet our social and emotional needs. The way to help alleviate the loneliness of the oppressed is to continue to destroy oppressive structures and support organizing and resistance. The only way to ethically survive loneliness is to look at labor: to ask who performs care work for me, who I perform it for, what systems are viable and where I transmute being abandoned to resistance.
Men who demand empathy for their gendered fear of dying un-cared-for, unwanted, and unmourned without referencing feminism are acting in bad faith—they would like us to pretend there is no distinction between the solitary deaths of an abuser and an abused person. They would like gendered consoling while remaining indifferent to the deaths they, as a gender, are responsible for. They would like cosmetic cultural change while believing that emasculation is bad, as though it is horrible to change out of being a toxic oppressor. They would like us to care about men as men, when there are people—disabled, old, sick, poor, queer, migrant, discriminated-against PEOPLE—who are dying and are lonely. Those are the ones we should be focused on. If some of them happen to be men, well, let us try to not hold it against them.
Patriot Prayer Tried to Rally at Planned Parenthood in Olympia; Leaves Humiliated and in Tears
When Joey Gibson announced his intention to bring Patriot Prayer to protest Planned Parenthood in Olympia, we knew we couldn’t let them go unchecked. It’s not enough for Joey and his scumbag friends to spout racist and nationalist rhetoric; they also have to attack our reproductive freedom and our access to healthcare. Unfortunately for them, people from Olympia and Tacoma mobilized to defend Planned Parenthood and show that Patriot Prayer’s vile hate won’t be allowed here.
On January 26th at around 9am a group started to gather outside Planned Parenthood. At first just one person held a sign saying “we support Planned Parenthood” while the four fundamentalist Christians held various signs equating abortion with murder. This scene repeats itself in Olympia several times a week outside the clinic but on this day Joey Gibson of Patriot Prayer had promised to come out to protect the anti-abortion protesters.
On a Facebook live video he had claimed that the anti-abortion protestors were being harassed by, “gay communists.” This claim is of course absurd on several levels; some of us are gay communists, though probably gayer and more deeply communistic than he understands, and the entire purpose of the Christian fundamentalists presence outside Planned Parenthood is to harass patients going into the Clinic.
When our numbers grew to about 15 people most of the anti-abortion sign wavers thought better of it and left. One older man stayed and some people stood in front of his sign to so it couldn’t be seen by traffic. Kathryn Townsend then showed up to “protect the older man’s free speech.” People started arguing with her as more pro-choice and antifascist protestors showed up swelling to 50 people. Kathryn Townsend, from Gig Harbor, is a well-known Patriot Prayer supporter and wore a patriot prayer hoodie. Responsible for fundraising for that group and other far-right groups, she makes regular appearances at alt-right events and claims that Heather Heyer deserved to get murdered in Charlottesville.
At around 10 AM, a car with members of Patriot Prayer showed up, including Tiny, Russell Schultz, and Robert Zurfing. They showed up and aggressively asserted their love of free speech—as long as it’s the kind they like. Antifascists started chanting and reminding Patriot Prayer of their various defeats over the last year. Joey Gibson showed up separately shortly after and approached the crowd. Triggered by someone shining a flashlight in his eyes, he reacted by lunging toward the crowd and was quickly covered in glitter and a light dusting of pepper spray. Melting like the Alt-Right bro-flake that he is, Joey stumbled back to his car and took his shirt off with tears streaming down his face. He quickly called on the Daddy State for help, which arrived in the form of cops and paramedics to hold his hand and soothe his bruised ego and tear-filled eyes.
Meanwhile the anarchists and gay communists across the street offered taunts like, “uh oh Joey needs some milk,” and, “hows that spicy glitter treating you?” and chants of, “Cops and Klan go hand in hand,” while the Olympia Police comforted the shirtless man-baby. One person in our midst began reading aloud the pamphlet included below titled, “For Health Autonomy and Reproductive Freedom.”
The four remaining Alt-Right douche-bags yelled back at us claiming that they have nothing to do with fascists and that we are the real fascists. Many of us responded by reminding them of their friend Jeremy Christian who murdered 2 and critically wounded another on a max train in Portland after they intervened in his Islamophobic harassment of two young women. After attempting to disavow Jeremy Christian’s well-documented association with Patriot Prayer, Robert Zerfing (who identified himself as a Proud Boy) changed tack and loudly proclaimed that Jeremy Christian was acting in self-defense and that he would be found innocent. Antifascists challenged him on this and he repeated his blatant defense of a neo-Nazi indiscriminate murderer. He was then covered in glitter and silly string and retreated by going to check on his crying friend across the street.
They all drove away in their cars by about 10:30 AM.
Pickup artist Roosh V has thoughts about Jews he’d like to share with youWhere did the alt right come from? It is a direct reaction to a high number of non-white immigrants to the United States, which began with the 1965 Immigration Law. The culture of pepe, cuck-shaming, and a white ethno-state is the 50-year delayed response to one law. …
What’s interesting to note is that feminism and immigration to the Western world was disproportionately promoted and enabled by Jews. … If you are to believe that Jews are at the top of most Western institutions, dissident movements are a reaction to their power.
The life of an elite Jew is to control the non-Jew through both cultural and political means. The non-Jew responds and then the Jew adapts to that response. The lives of Jews and non-Jews are therefore inexorably tied together. Understand that any attempt to control something external to you means that you are also being controlled by it, since your existence becomes primarily a response to the external.
Alex Jones: Transgender Rights Activism Is Really About Cyborgs
By Jared Holt | February 8, 2018 3:34 pm
Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist who leads Infowars, told listeners that transgender rights activism is secretly paving the way for measures protecting cyborgs and other “new life forms” and that accepting multiple gender identities or sexual orientations is “how you destroy a civilization.”
On Infowars today, Jones featured an interview with Roger Ver, who is an early investor in Bitcoin startup businesses. During the broadcast, Ver was having problems connecting with the Infowars studio. As Jones waited for his producers to work out a better connection, he decided he would “get to what the whole trans movement’s about.”
Jones claimed that executives from Facebook and Twitter have called the Infowars studio to ask them to not use the derogatory phrase “tranny” on air. Jones told listeners that the request had nothing to do with actual transgender people, but rather “it has to do with something bigger.”
“The most protected class are going to be augmented humans—cyborgs, you name it. And you’re going to have humanoids, which again isn’t a man and a woman with the chromosomes splicing together,” Jones said. He then referred to a story about a child born with DNA from three parents. “It’s not a human. It’s something different when you’ve got three parents. And you say, ‘Oh, we just changed some genes over here.’ It changes the whole deal, especially if you start mixing two women.”
“They’re creating new lifeforms and they’re just creating a stampede where you don’t criticize that,” Jones said.
Jones went on to lament that LGBTQ activists sometimes add new letters to the “LGBTQ” abbreviation to reflect different identities and orientations and made a reference to his claim that LGBTQ activists will vilify people who do not offer their cars for people to have sex with. He then predicted that expanded recognition of sexual orientations and gender identities will become the “national religion.”
“It’ll be like the national religion to go ‘L3Q943ABCQPBLV543Z92 dot dot dot 34Q5974,’” Jones said. “I mean, it’s just total mental illness, but it’s how you destroy a civilization.”
6 mindbending MGTOW memes to brighten your Presidents Day
FEBRUARY 19, 2018
It’s all a little confusing
By David Futrelle
Stretch your mind a little with these lovely memes, courtesy of some of Twitter’s most creative Men Going Their Own Way. While almost all of these images raise more questions than they answer, some are so thoroughly incomprehensible that they sort of broke my brain. If you can explain them, please do.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests