The “Alternative Right"

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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:58 pm

Novem5er » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:16 pm wrote:
American Dream » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:25 am wrote:Most anybody who would suggest that the "Alternative Right" is the hottest thing ever, has clearly lost their shit and/or is trying a bit too hard to sell something.



Doesn't he say right there in the bolded part that he's talking about people promoting the alt-right?

I live in the South and I am confronted by people regularly who speak the alt-right lingo and fully expect me to reciprocate. It's like watercooler talk to them, and since I'm a white male with facial hair, I must totally belong to that country club, right? Wrong. They are usually taken aback when I rebut them, but then they get excited and see the conversation now as a game to score points in or a chance to convert a non-believer. After all, I'm a white male in the south with facial hair . . . shouldn't I be down with the sickness?

I think that's what AD is referring to. I can talk to college educated professionals who by all reason should run screaming from the hills regarding this alt-right stuff . . . but they have full-blown lost their shit.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure he means the expanding space given to the alt right in real world circles and on the internet, elsewhere.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:12 pm

Yes, exactly.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:30 pm

Luther Blissett » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:58 pm wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he means the expanding space given to the alt right in real world circles and on the internet, elsewhere.



The word 'given' here seems out of place, like some sort of allocation is possible.

I thought he was referring to this board though. at least that is a limited environment which can be grasped and discussed.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:34 pm

Luther Blissett » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:58 pm wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure he means the expanding space given to the alt right in real world circles and on the internet, elsewhere.


Yet even the most rabid proponents see the Alt Right as a transitional movement, destined to be fractured and shed as it becomes a proper [insert noun from the following: "Anarcho-Cap, Conservative, Ethno-State, Libertarian, Minarchist, Monarchist, Neo-Cameral, Neo-Reactionary, Traditionalist, White Nationalist"] movement.

Every time we see key actors in this space speak up, aside from Spencer's endless self-congratulations for having coined the term, they give voice to 1) reservations about the other actors they're lumped in with, and 2) a resignation to ride the trend while it lasts in pursuit of their larger goals.

This is why I'm still baffled by the phrasing, but I guess that's the derangement of advertising all around, yeah? Marketing makes Palins of us all.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:48 pm

I keep wanting to make a post on here of original research into some circles I've uncovered on tumblr and reddit, but as original research it's been taking too much time to put together correctly. In the case of the tumblr community, my senses were tripped because of both the overlap with anti-fascist people I know and because of the high level of aesthetics. I pride myself on being able to sniff fascists out no matter how deeply buried the motives are, but the politics here were embedded in art I pretty much agree with. I had to take a broader look around and really search for who was liking what and, most importantly, what they were saying politically and how broadly those messages were spread. Three factors hinder that approach: a lot of people use fascist imagery in order to criticize/warn (in some cases, pulling directly from the neonazi accounts); you cannot easily search keywords by account; and because "likes" and "reblogs" count towards one aggregate notes number; and that it is nearly impossible to tell how popular an actual neonazi page is - only how popular the posts are. There's a correlation but not always direct.

As for reddit, I was much less surprised but am constantly being surprised. I started by working forwards from all of the straight fascist and neonazi subreddits and read through posts by thread starters in those places who had high post counts, especially if they posted elsewhere. I was prompted to look for this after alerted to one by a woman pointing out a popular redpill poster who had more posts at a white power subreddit (I believe the dark alliance page), but discovered there was a high frequency pipeline to the popular world news subreddit, and naturally those for issues like gay rights, women's rights, blacklivesmatter, etc.

Eventually I'll actually get around to write this up, but invite others to look for the same in the meantime. I thought it would fit well here because there was definitely an overall "alternative right" flavoring to both of these inquiries. I was especially shocked by the tumblr examples. Some of the accounts were embattled about their calls for genocide of certain ethnic groups but had really surprising popularity and confounding sophistication
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:11 pm

Far right shit is all mixed in with a few of the "hippest" mushroom-gobbling, bud-smoking ecofreaks, who have long been a target of sneaky and underhanded recruitment techniques. These sneaky machinations have had some degree of success upon the psychologically vulnerable, notably in the American hippie haven of Eugene, Oregon:


Former ELF/Green Scare Prisoner “Exile” Now a Fascist

Posted on August 5, 2014

It’s been an open secret for months that Nathan Block (better known as “Exile”), a former Green Scare prisoner who served a number of years in prison for several Earth Liberation Front actions, has become a fascist. This has been known not just through numerous personal accounts from Olympia, but from copious postings on his tumblr blog Loyalty Is Mightier Than Fire (Exile has confirmed to local anti-fascists that the blog is his).


Image
Do you believe Anarchism and Nazism are compatible? All the anarchists killed by fascists could not be reached for comment.


If you are unfamiliar with the more obscure references to Nazism and the postwar fascist movement, except a few decorated swastikas, Exile’s blog might look like a creepy spiritual goth kid’s elaborate art project. However, if you understand the references, it is immediately obvious that Exile is going out of his way to promote a slew of fascist writers and imagery, especially those influenced by Esoteric Nazism and other forms of mystical fascism.


Continues at: http://nycantifa.wordpress.com/2014/08/ ... a-fascist/
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:33 pm

The term 'psychologically vulnerable' is problematic.

It could be argued that the far right has been recruiting such people for many many years, to the extent that a significant proportion of them already belong to this category, so who is abused and who is abuser?
This could be an arbitrary delineation along the lines of personal preferences, an example of which is the above, where hippy types somehow get a free pass and are regarded as victims.
Last edited by jakell on Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:05 am

Luther Blissett » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:48 pm wrote:I keep wanting to make a post on here of original research into some circles I've uncovered on tumblr and reddit, but as original research it's been taking too much time to put together correctly. In the case of the tumblr community, my senses were tripped because of both the overlap with anti-fascist people I know and because of the high level of aesthetics. I pride myself on being able to sniff fascists out no matter how deeply buried the motives are, but the politics here were embedded in art I pretty much agree with. I had to take a broader look around and really search for who was liking what and, most importantly, what they were saying politically and how broadly those messages were spread. Three factors hinder that approach: a lot of people use fascist imagery in order to criticize/warn (in some cases, pulling directly from the neonazi accounts); you cannot easily search keywords by account; and because "likes" and "reblogs" count towards one aggregate notes number; and that it is nearly impossible to tell how popular an actual neonazi page is - only how popular the posts are. There's a correlation but not always direct.

As for reddit, I was much less surprised but am constantly being surprised. I started by working forwards from all of the straight fascist and neonazi subreddits and read through posts by thread starters in those places who had high post counts, especially if they posted elsewhere. I was prompted to look for this after alerted to one by a woman pointing out a popular redpill poster who had more posts at a white power subreddit (I believe the dark alliance page), but discovered there was a high frequency pipeline to the popular world news subreddit, and naturally those for issues like gay rights, women's rights, blacklivesmatter, etc.

Eventually I'll actually get around to write this up, but invite others to look for the same in the meantime. I thought it would fit well here because there was definitely an overall "alternative right" flavoring to both of these inquiries. I was especially shocked by the tumblr examples. Some of the accounts were embattled about their calls for genocide of certain ethnic groups but had really surprising popularity and confounding sophistication


I'm surprised that you were surprised (less so that you may have been shocked), have you really not taken a look before, never mind a long considered look? If you haven't it just goes to show how successful the activity of information clogging has been here. The move to the Data Dump is correct, but extremely belated.

I've written fairly extensively on how we might encounter these folks in cyberspace, all lost in between acres of slap happy paste jobs. eg:

jakell » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:49 pm wrote:This post is intended as a little addendum to my previous post on 'anti-fascist' activity in cyberspace (previous one repeated for continuity)

jakell » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:14 pm wrote:This post follows from my previous two posts containing personal observations on the far right in the UK,

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22490&start=465#p535229

------------------------------
On encountering the far right on the BDF, my attitudes and outlook changed as I went along ie I didn't have a thought out strategy on starting there and initially was just on a fact finding mission. I also saw the UK far right as being far more monolithic that it turned out to be, in other words, the view of your average anti-fascist who has only ever encountered them in polarised and hostile situations, and from which little new is taken away.

Even though I entered that arena with certain expectation, I'm going to give an overview from hindsight, because I learned a fair bit there in the end. My fondness for the number 3 means I naturally feel inclined to come up with 3 points, so if you are intending to tackle the far right in cyberspace the I would advise to:

1) Find a forum where the far right mingle with ordinary folks (BDF was perfect for this), because here you are likely to find allies (not strict antis who are often unsubtle and tend to get in the way) and see different flavours of the right too, like my 'British Nationalism vs White Nationalism' mentioned earlier. Forget one dimensional freakshows like Stormfront unless you are a masochist and want a farily swift exit with nothing achieved.

2) Have a persona where you can be yourself. This might be difficult for the allergic antis, but they're not likely to last long anyway. If you want to get proper 'bites', and actually learn stuff, you are going to be there for the long haul (well over a year, I was there four years). If you get cornered, tell them you are an anarchist, of course, it helps if you already are one, so my problem was lessened in this respect.

3) Be prepared to be intellectually challenged and hear some stuff that will affect you emotionally. this is not like standing on the street slinging poo from a safe distance (ie most AF activity), this gets up close and inside your head. If you are overconfident that these people are mere knuckledraggers and that you will have an easy ride, forget it, they will come from emotional, intellectual and personal angles and not play fair. Be cool, don't get flustered, and don't engage in to much speculation, deal with what they write, not with what you think they mean.

This last sentence is fairly good forum practice in general, but especially in a hostile environment. I'm going to leave it at three points now, but may have some more to add next time...


if one is entering a potentially hostile environment it helps to initially define one's attitude and status, this may be subject to change, but even so, it's good to understand your initial stance.
It actually arises from three points I came up with on here, which came about when I was told (15 times or more) that this is an 'anti fascist' board.

I suggested that 'non-fascist' might be a more accurate label as the subject is poorly attended to in a general sense (I can sort of understand why that is). I made the distinction because I regard anti-fascism to be an activity and not merely an attitude or status.
In other words, regarding one's stance.... are you an anti-fascist, or a non fascist?

I suggested that in order to become an 'anti-fascist' then those claiming this should at least adopt a procedure:

1) Sustaining an environment where these issues can be discussed rationally (ie, no heated repetitive arguments and conversely, protracted silences)
2) Discovering as conclusively as possible who is and who isn't a fascist (if anyone is, ie no baseless accusations)
3) Proceeding to tackle those who have been identified as the former above, and moving towards a resolution.

Number one is the really important one here, without that nothing else happens. Non-fascism is still good though, and possibly more realistic. ATM, this label applies more accurately to me, and I'm content with that.


Next time I will be firmly back in the realm of my personal experiences on the BDF. This has been a slight detour...



The dinosaur is correct in what he said above though, alt-right is very likely a temporary business and if you are serious about understanding these folks it's best to go back to more basic ideologies and follow their development.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:53 am

I've actually used your original February 20, 2014 post as a guide of sorts from time to time since it offered a rare strategic clarity.

Let me try to elaborate on what I mean in the tumblr example. I was fairly well-acquainted with the low-grade, insular, "bottom-of-the-barrel aesthetics" (hasty memes, bad typography, process blue, system fonts, racist aunt stuff) neonazi accounts for which their audience only seemed to be one another. The group that I recently stumbled into was surprising because there were some connections with activists I know pretty well (and who I am still giving the benefit of the doubt - for all I know they're constantly confronting them, or somehow missed the clues) and because, for lack of a better term, the aesthetics of the accounts were okay, not the normal routes of white supremacist crossover. I'm honestly a notorious snob when it comes to art, and subtracting all the nazi stuff, I would probably actually like the exhibition so to speak. That's why it was surprising, I just hadn't had neonazis sneak up on me like that in quite awhile.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:34 am

Luther Blissett » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:53 pm wrote:I've actually used your original February 20, 2014 post as a guide of sorts from time to time since it offered a rare strategic clarity.

Let me try to elaborate on what I mean in the tumblr example. I was fairly well-acquainted with the low-grade, insular, "bottom-of-the-barrel aesthetics" (hasty memes, bad typography, process blue, system fonts, racist aunt stuff) neonazi accounts for which their audience only seemed to be one another. The group that I recently stumbled into was surprising because there were some connections with activists I know pretty well (and who I am still giving the benefit of the doubt - for all I know they're constantly confronting them, or somehow missed the clues) and because, for lack of a better term, the aesthetics of the accounts were okay, not the normal routes of white supremacist crossover. I'm honestly a notorious snob when it comes to art, and subtracting all the nazi stuff, I would probably actually like the exhibition so to speak. That's why it was surprising, I just hadn't had neonazis sneak up on me like that in quite awhile.


Many thanks for the thumbs-up, I had thought that what I'd written had been pretty much ignored and lost.

I'd like to stress that my accounts there are pretty much concerning a particular environment and time and may be of limited use outside of that. You do describe something that was also unique about the BDF, where fascists and non-fascists (plus plenty of in-betweeners) manage to co-exist somehow in a functioning environment. It's places like this where you are more likely to see informative dialogue now and again, places like Strormfront and 'anti' sites tend to be quite predictable.

It may be that these 'activists' you speak of are doing a similar thing to what I did, ie, going native, laying low, having a light touch and simply waiting for opportunities for 'constructive confrontation', which don't come around very often. Running around waving the anti-fascist flag doesn't get you anywhere.
Because these opportunities can be rare, a casual viewing can suggest fairly a homogenous community, but if you go deeper you might see a different story. I suggest you settle in and give it some time, sometimes a nudge is needed to get things going, but like I said a light touch.

It seems you know some of those activists. I kept pretty anonymous on BDF, mainly because we're a pretty small island and it wouldn't have taken much for me to be tracked down, as it was I received one death threat and several of violence.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:07 am

It's tough to be sure because comments ("asks") are primarily done anonymously, but it appears as though all of these "alt right" white supremacist accounts are embattled and field negative comments / attacks all day everyday. From the way some are worded, I think that the people I know are probably doing at least some of it. Either way, I definitely plan on keeping my eye on them. I could take the plunge and conduct some counterespionage but as for now I'm just watching for organization or action planning.

Tumblr seems like a strange choice of platform because of its reputation for constructive youth movements, peace activism, human rights issues, etc. I have to imagine they're primarily operating elsewhere but thus far I haven't found anything (these are all American accounts by the way as far as I can tell).
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:10 pm

Luther Blissett » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:07 pm wrote:It's tough to be sure because comments ("asks") are primarily done anonymously, but it appears as though all of these "alt right" white supremacist accounts are embattled and field negative comments / attacks all day everyday. From the way some are worded, I think that the people I know are probably doing at least some of it. Either way, I definitely plan on keeping my eye on them. I could take the plunge and conduct some counterespionage but as for now I'm just watching for organization or action planning.

Tumblr seems like a strange choice of platform because of its reputation for constructive youth movements, peace activism, human rights issues, etc. I have to imagine they're primarily operating elsewhere but thus far I haven't found anything (these are all American accounts by the way as far as I can tell).


This is an underrated activity on the internet, the urge to stir things up or move them along is often very strong, and usually we tend to affect outcomes by jumping in, thus ruining the 'experiment'.

Even though the inhabitants of the site you mention will have some differences from my own more parochial one, I would say that the overconfident and brash far-right persona will rise up now and again to reveal some information. It does sound like you will have to do a great deal of deduction though due to the increased anonymity, a considerably harder job than I had.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby yathrib » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:45 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but what is BDF? A google search reveals Belize Defense Force among other obvious misses.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby jakell » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:54 pm

yathrib » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:45 pm wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but what is BDF? A google search reveals Belize Defense Force among other obvious misses.


It's a British political forum that has recently closed. It covered the whole political spectrum, but was right-leaning. The presence of a fairly well attended British National Party section provided a good window on the British far right.
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Re: The “Alternative Right"

Postby American Dream » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:37 pm

http://idavox.com/index.php/event/alert ... ance_id=11

ALERT! National Policy Institute to Hold Another Recruiting Conference During Conservative Political Action Conference in DC


Image


Here they go again. National Policy Institute (NPI) is having another conference. The White supremacist organization has been holding at two per year as of late, and one of them is always during the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) so they can recruit people from that event into their ranks. Just like the upcoming American Renaissance (AmRen) conference, organizers see what Donald Trump is stirring up as a boon to them and they are going to take full advantage of it. This one will happen on the evening of March 5, right after CPAC concludes and attendees begin hanging out in DC for the weekend. As their official announcement of their event reads:

“Donald Trump has disrupted business as usual . . . he’s uncovered the gulf separating the Republican Party from the people who vote for it . . . he’s defeated the billionaire donors by being one himself . . . he’s taken celebrity culture and turned it into nationalism . . . he’s the candidate from the heartland and the candidate from the Internet . . .

Most of all, Trump has—perhaps unknowingly, perhaps instinctively—raised the specter of identity politics.”


NPI’s last conference was at one of the favorite haunts in Washington, DC, the National Press Club, on Halloween. This one will be at the other one, the Ronald Reagan Building. Two of the speakers from Halloween, NPI Executive Director Dick Spencer and anti-Semitic college professor Kevin MacDonald along with pretend comedian Paul Ramsey (aka Ramzpaul) will be the three stooges speaking. And you can expect opposition just as there always is at an NPI event.
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