"No Platform for Fascists"

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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby American Dream » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:53 pm

Ahh, the sweet irony of all these responses- especially the less cogent but still telling ones- here on an explicitly anti-fascist board.

I am not a liberal, per se- rather I would say, "Beyond Liberalism but not without it". In other words I strongly feel that Rigorous Intuition should not promote hatred, not on the basis of race, culture, religion, sex, gender, sexuality and other such "traditional" categories of scapegoating and downpression that reactionaries tend to reinforce, whether they admit it or not.

It's not all "Intuition" either, rigourous social theory- applied thoughtfully and not dogmatically- can and should lead straight towards the institutional analysis which is essential to understanding the very negative conspiracies that exist, and then somehow towards changing social reality for the better.

Reactionary nationalisms are not the way.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby jakell » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:29 pm

Why do you need to keep saying over and over again..."RI is an anti fascist board"?

The degree of repetition sounds more wishful than an assertion of a solid situation. Do the folks here need you to keep telling them this, or telling them anything?
I know you've given up on repeating that rule for now, but this sounds almost as desperate.

(looking for a more subtle word than 'desperate' but can't think of it right now)
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:52 pm

All I see is soon as AD posts, you people swarm - not like fascists but like offended bullies. (SLAD always first - what is your problem, why don't you just stop and leave it be?!) If you don't like it, you can ignore it!

Fascists murder people, and you people want to complain that someone talking too much about it is being fascist to you! Such a sad bunch.

You each choose, you usual suspects, to feel as though AD's material speaks to you! It probably does -- not that you're fascists, I'm guessing. I figure you're sour because someone called you that once, and you're still nursing the wounds. Pathetic.

Enough already. Anything wrong with what AD posted? MRAs and Christianist fanatics and flat-earthers can post without getting you all excited, apparently, so you might think about leaving AD to do so too. You're the ones populating his threads with posts.

And call me pedantic! You gave a wrong quote without checking it! If any of you take "rigor" seriously you would feel a duty to correct factual mistakes here whenever you see them, even if minor. What the fuck are we here for? (I know, a lot of you are here to push varieties of magical shit you POOYA.)

If you provide misquotes, mistakes, false interpretations, etc., and you're corrected, the proper response is: thank you! Certainly if you catch me doing that, I correct myself and move on, I don't pretend I am the offended party! There's a flood of false facts everywhere on the Internet, why would you want to add to it?
Last edited by JackRiddler on Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby DrEvil » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:18 pm

^^Well said. Can't deny that I have railed against AD on occasion, but I'd much rather have him around than people who can't handle their mistakes being corrected.

Facts matter, and having a cavalier attitude towards them because they make someone's argument less compelling is just fucking stupid.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby brekin » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:26 pm

JackRiddler wrote:

If you provide misquotes, mistakes, false interpretations, etc., and you're corrected, the proper response is: thank you! Certainly if you catch me doing that, I correct myself and move on, I don't pretend I am the offended party! There's a flood of false facts everywhere on the Internet, why would you want to add to it?


Well since you put it out there. When you said:

I figure you're sour because someone called you that once, and you're still nursing the wounds. Oathetic.


Was Oathetic suppose to be Pathetic? I just ask because it looks like a cool new word and I'm always looking for a neat neologism. I imagine something like given to often giving oaths or oats not agreeing with someone. The "O" is awful close to the "P" but you are usually such a careful typist. I'm really hoping this is the birth of something new and you just didn't get twitchy finger in composing. It would kind of make my Tuesday.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby Sounder » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:32 pm

Nobody is pretending to be an offended party, the vid was funny and appropriate, that's all Jack.


jakell wrote...
It purports to examine these grey areas of fascism, but the upshot is that there are no grey areas. If it's grey, then it's really black, no excuses.


AD would also agree that there are no gray areas, but he seems to maintain that there are slippery types about that can provide a different impression.

From my perspective, those folk put up pretty strong signals that make them somewhat easy to identify and avoid.
Last edited by Sounder on Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:38 pm

Jack says
I'm complaining that you are complaining :P


“I personally believe we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain.”
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby Harvey » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:47 pm

Facts matter, and having a cavalier attitude towards them because they make someone's argument less compelling is just fucking stupid.


^^ Seconded.

If we've learned anything in the last five or six years it should be not to play the game, especially when lies prosper.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby Sounder » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:13 pm

Fascists murder people, and you people want to complain that someone talking too much about it is being fascist to you! Such a sad bunch.


No, it's not like that. Talking too much about it is not 'being fascist'. Who would even suggest that? Did someone, where? Parafascists (foot soldiers) murder people, big money fascists pay for parafascists to murder people. Those same big money fascists pay PR firms to spin the public into believing that they are good guys on the side of freedom and democracy, as was done in the Ukraine and done with the white hats in Syria.

The larger concern should be with the fascists that fuck up and fuck with the psyches of folk on a grand scale, rather than the poor sot that has already had his psyche driven into cycles of hate.

Leverage man leverage.


Dr. Evil and Harvey, you are of course correct, but the vid was still pretty funny.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:15 pm

Purity Is obscurity.
- OGDEN NASH
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:18 pm

It saddened me to correct Oathetic.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:26 pm

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby brekin » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:24 am

JackRiddler » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:18 pm wrote:It saddened me to correct Oathetic.


And I am poorer a word.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby Elihu » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:14 pm

On the contrary, Oathetic saves the entire post!
I am richer a word! HAPPY NEW YEAR senior Riddler. And to all
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: "No Platform for Fascists"

Postby American Dream » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:29 pm

Maybe "Oathetic" is a good adjective to describe groups like the pathetic "Oath Keepers", my top nominee for burgeoning GLADIO recruitment tool in the U.S.:


Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason

Glenn Beck loves them. Tea Partiers court them. Congressmen listen to them. Meet the fast-growing "patriot" group that's recruiting soldiers to resist the Obama administration.
—By Justine Sharrock | March/April 2010 Issue

Image

THE .50 CALIBER Bushmaster bolt action rifle is a serious weapon. The model that Pvt. 1st Class Lee Pray is saving up for has a 2,500-yard range and comes with a Mark IV scope and an easy-load magazine. When the 25-year-old drove me to a mall in Watertown, New York, near the Fort Drum Army base, he brought me to see it in its glass case—he visits it periodically, like a kid coveting something at the toy store. It'll take plenty of military paychecks to cover the $5,600 price tag, but he considers the Bushmaster essential in his preparations to take on the US government when it declares martial law.

His belief that that day is imminent has led Pray to a group called Oath Keepers, one of the fastest-growing "patriot" organizations on the right. Founded last April by Yale-educated lawyer and ex-Ron Paul aide Stewart Rhodes, the group has established itself as a hub in the sprawling anti-Obama movement that includes Tea Partiers, Birthers, and 912ers. Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, and Pat Buchanan have all sung its praises, and in December, a grassroots summit it helped organize drew such prominent guests as representatives Phil Gingrey and Paul Broun, both Georgia Republicans.

There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey "unconstitutional" orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.

Pray (who asked me to use his middle name rather than his first) and five fellow soldiers based at Fort Drum take this directive very seriously. In the belief that the government is already turning on its citizens, they are recruiting military buddies, stashing weapons, running drills, and outlining a plan of action. For years, they say, police and military have trained side by side in local anti-terrorism exercises around the nation. In September 2008, the Army began training the 3rd Infantry's 1st Brigade Combat Team to provide humanitarian aid following a domestic disaster or terror attack—and to help with crowd control and civil unrest if need be. (The ACLU has expressed concern about this deployment.) And some of Pray's comrades were guinea pigs for military-grade sonic weapons, only to see them used by Pittsburgh police against protesters last fall.

Most of the men's gripes revolve around policies that began under President Bush but didn't scare them so much at the time. "Too many conservatives relied on Bush's character and didn't pay attention," founder Rhodes told me. "Only now, with Obama, do they worry and see what has been done. Maybe you said, I trusted Bush to only go after the terrorists.* But what do you think can happen down the road when they say, 'I think you are a threat to the nation?'"

In Pray's estimate, it might not be long (months, perhaps a year) before President Obama finds some pretext—a pandemic, a natural disaster, a terror attack—to impose martial law, ban interstate travel, and begin detaining citizens en masse. One of his fellow Oath Keepers, a former infantryman, advised me to prepare a "bug out" bag with 39 items including gas masks, ammo, and water purification tablets, so that I'd be ready to go "when the shit hits the fan."

When it does, Pray and his buddies plan to go AWOL and make their way to their "fortified bunker"—the home of one comrade's parents in rural Idaho—where they've stocked survival gear, generators, food, and weapons. If it becomes necessary, they say, they will turn those guns against their fellow soldiers.


PRAY AND I DRIVE through a bleak landscape of fallow winter fields and strip malls in his blue Dodge Stratus as Drowning Pool's "Bodies"—a heavy metal song once used to torment Abu Ghraib detainees—plays on the stereo. Clad in an oversize black hoodie that hides his military physique, Pray sports an Army-issue buzz cut and is seriously inked (skulls, smoke, an eagle). His father kicked him out of the house at age 14. Two years later, after working jobs from construction to plumbing—"If it's blue collar, I've done it"—he tried to enlist. It wasn't long after 9/11, and he was hell-bent on revenge. The Army turned him down. Blaming the "THOR" tattooed across his fist, Pray tried to burn it off. On September 11, 2006, he approached the Army again and was accepted.

Now Pray is both a Birther and a Truther. He believes he is following an illegitimate, foreign-born president in a war on terror launched by a government plot—9/11. He admires soldiers like Army reservist Major Stefan Frederick Cook, who volunteered for a deployment last May and then sued to avoid it—claiming that Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus unfit for command. Pray himself had been eager to go to Iraq when his own unit deployed last June, but he smashed both knees falling from a crane rig and the injuries kept him stateside. In September, he was demoted from specialist to private first class—he'd been written up for bullshit infractions, he claims, after seeking help for a drinking problem. His job on base involves operating and maintaining heavy machinery; the day before we met, he and his fellow "undeployables" had attached a snowplow to a Humvee, their biggest assignment in a while. He spends idle hours at the now-quiet base researching the New World Order and conspiracies about swine flu quarantine camps—and doing his best to "wake up" other soldiers.
Last edited by American Dream on Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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