Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

by **proldic** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:29 pm

[ADMIN NOTE: THIS IS A DISTILLATION OF ON-TOPIC POSTS DRAWN FROM <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessageRange?topicID=1735.topic&start=121&stop=130">THIS ORIGINAL THREAD</a>. TO AVOID CROSS-POSTING, THIS DATA DUMP THREAD WILL BE LOCKED UNTIL THE ORIGINAL DISCUSSION HAS RUN ITS COURSE. UPDATE: AS THE ORIGINAL THREAD HAS NOW BEEN ARCHIVED <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm39.showMessage?topicID=14.topic">HERE</a> I'M UNLOCKING THIS THREAD] <blockquote>Quote:<hr>So we're entering a period of potential political turmoil where we may see governments shifting from one extreme to the other with nobody really having the ability to address the issues and with both sides being motivated to hide what the real issues are...what we really need is actually a whole new form of politics. An ecological politics, a politics of reality. Now who's talking about this? Very few that I have seen. I think the marxist and most of the anarchists are pretty much avoiding the issue. There are a few people who are mostly scientists, people like Virginia Abernathy who wrote the book "Population Politics" and David Pimentel a professor up in Ithaca, New York, people like that are aware of the issues but these are scientists, they're not political leaders. It's going to take a different kind of political leader to raise these kinds of issues and it's difficult because people don't want to hear the bad news. Political leaders who begin to raise these issues are not likely to get re-elected or likely to gather people around them. When I talk about this stuff to audiences, people immediately say, 'can't you give us some hope' well I think hope is actually part of the problem.... <hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 12/2/05 10:32 am

by **veritas** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:21 pm

Saving the earth is good. Yes. She is in pain. Yes. But those who seek to speak in her name are not always what they seem. Question. Look deeper. There is darkness there. Deep, deep roots. Read these essays. Read them carefully. I'm sorry they are long. The truth is complex. Here is the introduction. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Introduction For most compassionate and humane people today, the ecological crisis is a source of major concern. Not only do many ecological activists struggle to eliminate toxic wastes, to preserve tropical rainforests and old-growth redwoods, and to roll back the destruction of the biosphere, but many ordinary people in all walks of life are intensely concerned about the nature of the planet that their children will grow up to inhabit. In Europe as in the United States, most ecological activists think of themselves as socially progressive. That is, they also support demands of oppressed peoples for social justice and believe that the needs of human beings living in poverty, illness, warfare, and famine also require our most serious attention. For many such people, it may come as a surprise to learn that the history of ecological politics has not always been inherently and necessarily progressive and benign. In fact, ecological ideas have a history of being distorted and placed in the service of highly regressive ends--even of fascism itself. As Peter Staudenmaier shows in the first essay in this pamphlet, important tendencies in German "ecologism," which has long roots in nineteenth-century nature mysticism, fed into the rise of Nazism in the twentieth century. During the Third Reich, Staudenmaier goes on to show, Nazi "ecologists" even made organic farming, vegetarianism, nature worship, and related themes into key elements not only in their ideology but in their governmental policies. Moreover, Nazi "ecological" ideology was used to justify the destruction of European Jewry. Yet some of the themes that Nazi ideologists articulated bear an uncomfortably close resemblance to themes familiar to ecologically concerned people today. As social ecologists, it is not our intention to deprecate the all-important efforts that environmentalists and ecologists are making to rescue the biosphere from destruction. Quite to the contrary: It is our deepest concern to preserve the integrity of serious ecological movements from ugly reactionary tendencies that seek to exploit the widespread popular concern about ecological problems for regressive agendas. But we find that the "ecological scene" of our time--with its growing mysticism and antihumanism--poses serious problems about the direction in which the ecology movement will go. In most Western nations in the late twentieth century, expressions of racism and anti-immigrant sentiments are not only increasingly voiced but increasingly tolerated. Equally disconcertingly, fascist ideologists and political groups are experiencing a resurgence as well. Updating their ideology and speaking the new language of ecology, these movements are once again invoking ecological themes to serve social reaction. In ways that sometimes approximate beliefs of progressive-minded ecologists, these reactionary and outright fascist ecologists emphasize the supremacy of the "Earth" over people; evoke "feelings" and intuition at the expense of reason; and uphold a crude sociobiologistic and even Malthusian biologism. Tenets of "New Age" eco-ideology that seem benign to most people in England and the United States--specifically, its mystical and antirational strains--are being intertwined with ecofascism in Germany today. Janet Biehl’s essay explores this hijacking of ecology for racist, nationalistic, and fascist ends. Taken together, these essays examine aspects of German fascism, past and present, in order to draw lessons from them for ecology movements both in Germany and elsewhere. Despite its singularities, the German experience offers a clear warning against the misuse of ecology, in a world that seems ever more willing to tolerate movements and ideologies once regarded as despicable and obsolete. Political ecology thinkers have yet to fully examine the political implications of these ideas in the English-speaking world as well as in Germany. What prevents ecological politics from yielding reaction or fascism with an ecological patina is an ecology movement that maintains a broad social emphasis, one that places the ecological crisis in a social context. As social ecologists, we see the roots of the present ecological crisis in an irrational society--not in the biological makeup of human beings, nor in a particular religion, nor in reason, science, or technology. On the contrary, we uphold the importance of reason, science, and technology in creating both a progressive ecological movement and an ecological society. It is a specific set of social relations--above all, the competitive market economy--that is presently destroying the biosphere. Mysticism and biologism, at the very least, deflect public attention away from such social causes. In presenting these essays, we are trying to preserve the all-important progressive and emancipatory implications of ecological politics. More than ever, an ecological commitment requires people today to avoid repeating the errors of the past, lest the ecology movement become absorbed in the mystical and antihumanistic trends that abound today. From Ecofascism: Lessons from the German experience. by Peter Staudenmaier and Janet Biehl <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.spunk.org/library/places/germany/sp001630/ecofasc.html">www.spunk.org/library/pla...ofasc.html</a>

by **Qutb** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:59 pm

Thanks for that, Veritas. Very interesting articles there. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>An ecology that is mystical, in turn, may become a justification for a nationalism that is mystical. In the New Age milieu of today, with its affinities for ecology, the ultra-right may well find the mystical component it needs to make a truly updated, modernized authoritarian nationalism. As in Germany between the two world wars, antirational cults of the New Age -- primitivistic, esoteric -- abound in both the Federal Republic and the Anglo-American world. Such antirationalism and mysticism are appealed to by the 'New' Right; as anarchist publisher Wolfgang Haug observes, "The New Right, in effect, wants above all to redefine social norms so that rational doubt is regarded as decadent and eliminated, and new 'natural' norms are established." 7 Neofascist 'Ecology' Ecology is warped for mystical-nationalist ends by a whole series of neofascist groups and parties. Indeed, so multifarious are the ecofascist parties that have arisen, and so much do their memberships overlap, that they form what antifascist researcher Volkmar Wölk calls an "ecofascist network." Their programmatic literature often combines ecology and nationalism in ways that are designed to appeal to people who do not consider themselves fascists, while at the same time they ideologically support neo-Nazi street-fighting skinheads who commit acts of violence against foreigners.<hr></blockquote> There's a certain former English soccer player who ideologically fits nicely into the "New Right" attack on rational doubt in the name of ecology and anti-capitalism/anti-globalization, designed to appeal to people who do not consider themselves fascists. Qutb means "axis," "pole," "the center," which contains the periphery or is present in it. The qutb is a spiritual being, or function, which can reside in a human being or several human beings or a moment. It is the elusive mystery of how the divine gets delegated into the manifest world and obviously cannot be defined.

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:16 am

Hello Wintler. Here is an article by Heinberg you will enjoy. Maybe you won't understand why it's important. Others will. Yes they will. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Back to Paradise By RICHARD HEINBERG (linked from his page here: <a href="http://www.museletter.com/archive.html)">www.museletter.com/archive.html)</a> ----------------snip for brevity--------------------- THE SITE OF PARADISE Some paradise myths seem to describe a specific place, a lost homeland. Many legends speak of a sunken island or a great world mountain as the original paradisal home of humankind. In Memories and Visions of Paradise, I mentioned the Tibetan legend of lost Shambhala — “a mystical kingdom hidden behind snowy peaks somewhere to the north” where “a line of enlightened kings is guarding the innermost teachings of Buddhism for a time when all truth in the outside world is lost in war and greed. Then, according to the prophecy, the King of Shambhala will emerge with a great army to destroy the forces of evil and bring in a new Golden Age.” Tibetan and Western scholars have looked everywhere for Shambhala — from the Gobi Desert to the North Pole. Three recent books offer relevant new information and insight. In Dawn Behind the Dawn: A Search for the Earthly Paradise (Holt, 1992), cultural historian Geoffrey Ashe theorises that the idea of a lost paradise began with a goddess-worshipping cult in the region of the Altai-Baikal region of northern Asia some 25,000 years ago. The book is erudite and impressively researched, touching on subjects ranging from Near Eastern mythology to Indo-European philology to modern feminism. Ashe summarises his reconstruction as follows: “Tens of thousands of years ago, shamans in Siberia and Mongolia held the seven-star constellation [Ursa Major] in reverence. It was all the more important because the pole, which it ruled, was not marked then by a separate polestar of conspicuous brightness. ...The chief deity was a powerful Earth Mother and Mistress of Animals, with whom female shamans were closely associated. Her cult and symbolism, passing from tribe to tribe, played a part in forming the Paleolithic Goddess substratum across Siberia and Europe. Her chief animal form was a bear.... “The constellation built up a unique numinosity, partly because of its relation to the pole and hence to shamans’ ideas of comic centrality, expressed in the image of a central tree or world-mountain, which they climbed in their trances to meet superior spirits. In the Altai region, actual gold that gave the range a name, and an actual mountain cult, helped to evoke the divine world-mountain as golden.... “Late in the fourth millennium B.C., around the Altai, Indo-European groupings such as the Afanasievo came under shamanic influence and acquired a mythical ‘package’ comprising some of the ancient themes, which in the hands of these new people took on a rekindled life and energy. The package included the golden world-mountain... this eventually evolved into golden Meru, central to the universe, a paradisal abode of gods. It also included the seven stars... and something of the connected [mystique surrounding the number seven]. The mythical package was carried south and southwest in Indo-European expansion.” Ashe cites the Tibetan Shambhala legend as referring to the original Altaic homeland. Victoria Le Page’s Shambhala: The Fascinating Truth Behind the Myth of Shangri-La (Quest, 1996) is an esotericist’s view of the same materials. Le Page has read Ashe carefully — as well as earlier scholars on the subject, such as René Guénon and Nicholas Roerich. Guénon interprets the paradise mountain — Mount Meru in Buddhist lore — as not a mountain at all, but “a metaphor for a conduit of terrestrial energy constituting the earth’s primary power source whose nature, location, and function is presently unknown to us. [Guénon] suggests that the knowledge of this fact belongs to a most arcane and little-known branch of the tantric science that is concerned with cosmic Shakti and the building of worlds, and which for that reason has been jealously guarded from the public view for many thousands of years.” Le Page follows occultist Nicholas Roerich in his quest to find the true geographical Shambhala — in the Altai mountains. But she has more than a historical interest in decoding the myth. For her, Shambhala — the realm of jewel lakes, wish-fulfilling trees, and speaking stones — is central to the “new world model,” the ideology of the New Age. “Shambhala has had many locations, many names, many forms; over the ages it has been known as a taboo region of Paleolithic magic, a vast Megalithic sanctuary, a sacred kingdom, and underground Wisdom center, a modern complex of ashrams and training-schools.... Its credibility has probably never been so severely tested as in this age of high technology, dense population and intensive exploration; and yet in another sense we have never been more open to transcendental ideas, to the possibility of dimensions unseen, of higher-order beings and energies and presences celestial, of guidance from above.” ---------------------snip for brevity------------------- Rest is here: <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/Articles/Back%20to%20Paradise.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com.a...adise.html</a> <hr></blockquote> wintler? Do you understand what Shambala is about? Do you understand the myth of a lost "Golden Age" of Indo Europeans? No? Maybe this will help. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A coterie of fascist cultural scholars sprang up asserting that Buddhism, the Vedas, the Puranas, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, yoga and even Tantrism were intellectual remnants of a vanished, global, indo-Aryan, anti-Semitic religion. There were also borrowings from Tibetan culture and especially from Japanese Zen and Samurai traditions --------------snip---------------- The inventors of the “Nazi mysteries”, French occultists Jacques Bergier and Louis Pauwels, and the Englishman Trevor Ravenscroft. All three authors saw National Socialism inextricably linked to the Indo-Tibetan Shambhala myth. ---------------------------snip------------------- SS-Ahnenerbe researchers were especially interested in the Kalachakra Tantra. The Shambala vision recorded in the Kalachakra Tantra has become a central pillar in the mythology of religious neo-Nazism. Many of the themes raised in the Kalachakra Tantra (a cyclical view of the world, global domination, the use of super weapons, magic and ritual in sexual practices etc) are key themes in religious fascism. <a href="http://www.trimondi.de/H-B-K/inhalt.hi.en.htm">www.trimondi.de/H-B-K/inhalt.hi.en.htm</a> <hr></blockquote>. or this maybe will help: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Shambhala, Agartha, and “The Hole at The Pole”. That there was some further mystery related to the Boreal region, is indicated in the myth of Shambhala, which is supposed to have emanated from the early lamas of Tibet. It is thought to have been an ancient realm once located somewhere in Asia - possibly in the Gobi - when what is now an arid desert was still the Gobi Sea. It was thought to have been an island realm, called the “Sacred Island” which, in many respects, seems to have been strangely similar to Thule or Hyperborea. The mystery deepens when we learn that its inhabitants were the last survivors of the “White Island” which had perished long ages earlier! According to Madame Blavatsky, the inhabitants were descended from her Lemurians, but, since this information was alleged to be from a Theosophist, spiritual origin, we might be wiser in concluding that they were more likely to have been from Hyperboria-Thule! Shambhala. From some of the accounts available, Shambhala appears to have been a centre of spiritual enlightenment, very reminiscent of James Hilton’s “Shangri-La”, but others say that it was a centre of occult power and arcane teaching. Its leader was thought variously to be either an evil, tyrannical Sorcerer-King or a God-like “Lord of The World”. We seem to be left with a choice as to which story we prefer to follow, and evidently which Path one desires to follow, too. The evil Left, or the good Right! Apparently there were two factions (as in Hyperborea), one of which followed the Golden Sun, and the other the Black Sun. (The “Black Sun”, incidentally, was as prominent an emblem of the Nazi mythos as was the Swastika!) According to Jean-Claude Frére, author of “Nazisme et Sociétiés Secretès”, the people of Hyperborea, after migrating to the Gobi Desert over 6000 years ago, founded a new centre, which they named Agartha. It became a great centre of world learning, and people flocked there from all over the world to enjoy its culture and civilization. However, a huge catastrophe supervened, and the earth’s surface was devastated, but the realm of Agartha somehow survived, under the earth. The legend continues to relate that, as with the original Hyperboreans, the Aryans now split into two factions: one group heading north-west, hoping to return to their lost Hyperborea, and the second going south, where they founded a new secret centre under the Himalayas. Jean-Claude Frére concludes: The sons of the Outer Intellegences split into two groups, one following the “Right Hand Path” under the “Wheel of The Golden Sun”, the other the “Left Hand Path” under the “Wheel of the Black Sun”. The first preserved the centre of Agartha, that undefined place of contemplation, of the Good, and of the Vril force. The second supposedly created a new place of initiation at Shambhala, the city of violence in command of the elements and human masses, hastening the arrival of the “charnel-house of time.” <a href="http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:sGNULUq5TNUJ:seekers.100megs6.com/Mu%2520to%2520Thule.doc+nazi+shambala&hl=en&client=firefox">64.233.167.104/search?q=c...nt=firefox</a> <hr></blockquote>

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:27 pm

Can anyone remember the topic of this thread? It goes very deep. Do not let Thumper distract. This is a key. A clue. Heinberg wrote for New Dawn. Here is one fan of New Dawn: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "New Dawn magazine is one of the best sources of realistic information on the state of things in our world as it nears its inevitable and predicted end. For some people it could seem to be a little bit strange and weird, phantasmagoric... But the reality in which we live is itself something strange and weird... New Dawn magazine helps us to persist. And gives us hope for the better world that is coming..." – ALEXANDRE DUGIN, leader of International Eurasian Movement <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/whatisnewdawn.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com.a...wdawn.html</a> <hr></blockquote> Here is Heinberg ABOUT Dugin: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Meanwhile, in Russia political theorist Alexander Dugin was gaining increasing influence with anti-American geostrategic writings. In 1997, the same year Brzezinski's The Grand Chessboard appeared, Dugin published his own manifesto, The Basics of Geopolitics, advocating a reconstituted Russian Empire composed of a continental bloc of states allied to cleanse the Eurasian land-mass of US influence. At the center of this bloc Dugin posited a "Eurasian axis" of Russia, Germany, Iran, and Japan. While Dugin's ideas were banned during Soviet times for their echoes of Nazi pan-Eurasian fantasies, they gradually gained influence among post-Soviet Russian officials. For example, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs recently decried the "strengthening tendency towards the formation of a unipolar world under financial and military domination by the United States" and called for a "multipolar world order," while emphasizing Russia's "geopolitical position as the largest Eurasian state." Russia's Communist party has adopted Dugin's ideas in its platform; Gennady Zyuganov, Communist Party chairman, even published his own primer on geopolitics, titled Geography of Victory. Though Dugin remains a marginal figure internationally, his ideas cannot help but resonate in a country and continent increasingly hemmed in and manipulated by a powerful and arrogant hegemonic nation on the other side of the globe. Outwardly, Russia - like Germany, France, Japan, and China - still usually defers to the US. Even dissent from the Bush buildup to war on Iraq has remained fairly muted. But in private, leaders in all of these countries are no doubt making new plans. Few would yet go so far as to agree with Alexander Dugin's view that Eurasia will come to dominate the US, not the other way around. Yet in just three years, many Eurasian leaders' attitudes toward American hegemony have shifted from quiet acceptance to biting criticism to a serious examination of the alternatives. The American Dilemma Dugin and other Eurasian critics of US power begin from a premise that would seem ludicrous to most Americans. To Dugin, the US is acting not out of strength, but of weakness. <a href="http://www.museletter.com/archive/132.html">www.museletter.com/archive/132.html</a> <hr></blockquote> who is Dugin? Who is Dugin? Russian nationalist. Occultist. Fascist. Oh my. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The mankind has always had two types of spirituality, two paths — "Right Hand Path" and "Left Hand Path". The first one is characterized by the positive attitude to the surrounding world; the world is seen as harmony, equilibrium, good, peace. All the evil is viewed as a particular case, a deviation from the norm, something inessential, transient, without deep transcendental reasons. Right Hand Path is also called "The Way of Milk". It doesn’t hurt a person, it preserves him from radical experience, withdraws from immersion into suffering, from the nightmare of life. This is a false path. It leads into a dream. The one going by it will reach nowhere... The second path, the "Left Hand Path", sees all in an inverted perspective. Not dairy tranquility, but black suffering; not silent calm, but torturous, fiery drama of splitted life. This is "A Path of Wine". It is destructive, terrible, anger and violence reigns there. For the one who is going by this path all reality is perceived as hell, as the ontological exile, as torture, as immersion into the heart of some inconceivable catastrophe originating from the heights of space. If in the first path everything seems as good, in the second — as evil. This path is monstrously difficult, but only this path is true. It is easy to stumble on it, and it is even easier to parish. It guarantees nothing. It tempts nobody. But only this path is the true one. Who follows it — will find glory and immortality. Who will withstand — will conquer, will receive the award, which is higher than life. <a href="http://arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm">arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm</a> <img src="<a href="http://arctogaia.com/public/images/Trad_Rev.gif"">arctogaia.com/public/imag...d_Rev.gif"</a> style="border:0;"/> <hr></blockquote> Old Dugin: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The Jews are the carriers of a religious culture which is deeply distinct from all historical displays of Indo-European spirituality - from ancient Aryan heathen cults to Hinduism and Christianity. The voluntary or forced seizure of the Jewish diaspora from the Indo-European peoples cannot be a casual episode of history, and no Orthodox Jew will ever deny the theological underlying basis of Jewish "peculiarity". The Jewish question, no matter by whom and how it was put, should begin with a recognition of this fundamental fact - "the Jews are a community which keeps the secret of its radical differences from other peoples". If we do not admit distinction, then it is simply senseless to speak about the Jewish problem. -----------------------snip------------------------------ The world of "Judaica" is a world hostile to us. But our feeling of Aryan justice and the gravity of our geopolitical situation require comprehension of its laws, rules and interests. The Indo-European elite stands today before a titanic task - to understand those who are not only culturally, nationally and politically, but also metaphysically different. And in this case, "to understand" means not "to forgive", but "to defeat". And "to defeat with the Light of Truth". <a href="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng/defeat.html">www.arctogaia.com/public/eng/defeat.html</a><hr></blockquote> These are deep and perilous waters. Do you see? Can you see the nexus? Heinberg. New Dawn. Shambala. Indo-European Golden Age. There is more. Much more. Do you want to know? Will you hear?

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:25 pm

From original link I posted: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> In many varieties of the National Socialist world view ecological themes were linked with traditional agrarian romanticism and hostility to urban civilization, all revolving around the idea of rootedness in nature. This conceptual constellation, especially the search for a lost connection to nature, was most pronounced among the neo-pagan elements in the Nazi leadership, above all Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, and Walther Darré. <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.spunk.org/library/places/germany/sp001630/peter.html">www.spunk.org/library/pla...peter.html</a> Article too long to post.

by **israelirealities** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:08 pm

Thanks for all the info, veritas, it is important to study those issues, and be reminded of the roots of Nazism, in Occult and myth from Tibet and elsewhere. I also browsed and googled some of the H's publications and references and amazon's book reviews. Also, i never before heard of virginia abrenathy and her scandalous immigration statements and this is important stuff. From my miniscule spot on earth, and my foreign perspective I am worried that these weeds are bringing too many Jews and ISraelis to hastily adopt the other end, namely the Bush side, which meets Nazism from its other end. (all the roads leading to the reich ?). INdeed we are force fed here in Israel that the radical left, all left/bush critique, either in or outside the USA is equivalent to Antisemitism...You can see how such an analysis as yours, falling on already hypervigilant traumatized background creates fear and frantic responses. I would like to know more about these people who actually come from an "ecofascist" sentiment, or longing. But from my perspective they are not an immediate power to reckon with, in the USA. As for RUssia, really, it is hard to comment on a culture I don't have first hand knowledge of. From what I read, the place is falling apart with gangs, mafia, corruption...there is a burst of religious sentiment that was suppressed by the Soviets, they have numerous weirdos with cults, "energy healers" and mega astrologers forming their own "towns"...and possibly a host of fanatic and desparate politicians (some obviously nuts, (as this self proclaimed "left hand path" dugin guy) offering "solutions". This is a dangerous situation, as history shows, but antisemitism should not be high on the agenda, cause most of the JEws left I believe, and those who wish to leave now are welcome here and in germany, in Canada and the USA; not that having to leave is so great, but they have other minorities and little nations there in much worse conditions. Plus, Russians tend to dramatize with colors and "gothic" tragic descriptions...its a cultural birth mark, and so I would take all their grandiose writings with a grain of vodka. Having said that, I would like to know more about ecofascism and to what extent it exists, and what extent the improved idea of "environmental justice" managed to take root, instead as a more reasonable idea, placing the needs of humans first on the agenda and showing how ecology is related to racism and class.

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:29 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>But from my perspective they are not an immediate power to reckon with, in the USA.<hr></blockquote> Sometimes it pays to look beneath the surface. Common practice here. In case of Bush...don't have to poke too deeply to find Nazis. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Having said that, I would like to know more about ecofascism and to what extent it exists, and what extent the improved idea of "environmental justice" managed to take root, instead as a more reasonable idea, placing the needs of humans first on the agenda and showing how ecology is related to racism and class.<hr></blockquote> The articles I linked to are good, but mainly about Germany. But Heinberg seems like the latter when he is the former. THAT is why he is important. He longs for an Indo-European Golden Age. Maybe Dugin will be his Messiah.

by **AnnaLivia** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:29 am

ok, i DO see the way fascists and nazis (through identifiably twisted and error-riddled thinking) (yay! i spotted the errors!) ... used and use genuine ecological truths and concerns, to further their sick underlying agendas. but i don't see in heinberg's writings, where he is going down that track. veritas or proldic, i made a tremendous effort to read and understand (and good GOD if those articles aren't full of "the big words that make us so unhappy" - James Joyce quote)! but to connect heinberg to the plan, you're going to have to give me the picture, and not just the jigsaw pieces. i admit i got to this late in the day. i've done a marathon 17 hours researching other issues today, and i'm dropping into bed right after i post this. back tomorrow, 'cause, curse you, now the prom committee just HAS to suss the truth on this one, 'cause we know a really good person who would never like a nazi or fascist, but who likes heinberg. we don't want our friends to be getting fooled!

by **veritas** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:27 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>but i don't see in heinberg's writings, where he is going down that track.<hr></blockquote> Hmmm..... It is clear. Clear. Heinberg has a page for his book. On his page are endorsements. At the top. Yes!! <a href="http://www.museletter.com/partys-over.html">www.museletter.com/partys-over.html</a> David Pimental. Wife Marsha on board of Carrying Capacity Network. Virginia Abernathy. Racist. Occidental Quarterly. She is WELL known. No mistake there. <a href="http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/">theoccidentalquarterly.com/</a> No mistake. Heinberg writes in "New Dawn" about lovely myths. Indo-European Golden Age. Yes! I posted this. It is Nazi mythology. Well known. Shambala, yes. Hitler sent men to find it. They did not. Maybe Heinberg did? Maybe you don't know these myths? Read this one. Not Richard, but from New Dawn. Myths of "Hyperborea", lost original civilization. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Hyperborea Revived The legend of Hyperborea revived during the 18th and 19th centuries when a flurry of books were published dealing with the idea that civilisation had first appeared not in the Middle East, but somewhere else. The popular theory of the day postulated that the so-called ‘Aryans’ (Europeans) were superior and more intelligent than Semites (Middle East peoples). Therefore, logically, civilisation could not have originated in the Middle East and Hebrew was probably not the first language. The Frenchmen of the Enlightenment were in no doubt that “Eden” was situated on higher ground. The Germans similarly, who were looking for their Aufklarung, also sought to be free of a history tied to the Mediterranean and Middle East regions. British and German scholars studied ancient Indian (Vedic) civilisation and leant the Sanskrit language. Many believed Sanskrit the original language of the ‘Aryans’. With new sources of knowledge from ancient Egypt, Chaldea, China and India, researchers were treading on dangerous ground as far as questioning Man’s origins. Biblical history was still strictly upheld and moving too far from this historical boundary could have you silenced. Writers such as Jean-Sylvain Bailly (1736-1793), the Rev. Dr. William Warren (1800s), Bal Gangadhar Tilak (1856-1929) and H.S. Spencer (1900s), developed out theories, often borrowing from earlier sources, attempting to prove man’s origins in the Polar region. Tilak’s book Arctic Home (published 1903) begins by stating the well known fact that warm weather remains in the Arctic regions, which shows the climate was far different during the interglacial period. According to Tilak, scientists do concede the existence, in the past, of a warm circumpolar continent, and the circumstances there would not have been nearly unfavourable as imagined. Tilak was convinced the ancient Indian Vedic texts point unmistakably to a “realm of the gods” where the sun rises and sets once a year, showing that their writers could understand the astronomical conditions at the North Pole. Tilak, who had a perfect mastery of Vedic language, placed the original Arctic home existing around circa 10,000 BC, just prior to its destruction and the beginning of the last Ice Age. His book had little impact in the West but was popular in India. When the learned Zoroastrian H.S. Spencer wrote his book The Aryan Ecliptic Cycle (1965), a development of Tilak’s work, he was able to obtain endorsements from Sir S. Radhakrishna, then President of India. As well as from dignitaries of the Theosophical Society in Adyar and the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in Pondichary. Spencer’s approach commenced not with the Vedic but the Zoroastrian scriptures, going further than Tilak in tracing the progress of the ‘Aryans’ from the North to their new homes, and the schisms that beset them on the way. Spencer’s ‘Aryans’ made their presence felt after they travelled far and wide. They moulded the religions and cultures of Egypt, Sumeria, Babylon, and of the Semites, hitherto worshippers of feminine lunar deities. However, the search for a terrestrial ‘Hyperborea’ by many researchers and the movement of an original ‘race’ has been extremely difficult and presumptuous. Proving human habitation possible at the North Pole somewhere between 8000 and 10,000 BC is no mean feat, particularly if you were living in the 18th century. The numerous theories posited offering contradictory or tendentious ‘evidence’ has served only to discredit the whole notion of Hyperborea. The same could be said of theories attempting to prove the existence of the ‘lost continent of Atlantis’. The drive to prove the actuality of a terrestrial Hyperborea has overshadowed its occult and symbolic importance. <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Articles/hyperborea.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com/A...borea.html</a> <hr></blockquote> Hyperborea. Hyperborea. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Hyperboreans consistently play a large role in Nazi, neo-nazi, and proto-nazi mysticism. Miguel Serrano was a Chilean diplomat and major proponent of Esoteric Hitlerism. He believed that Hitler fled to Shambhala, an underground centre in Antarctica after World War II (formerly at the North Pole and Tibet), where he was in contact with the Hyperborean gods and from whence he would someday emerge with a fleet of UFOs to lead the forces of light (the Hyperboreans, sometimes associated with Vril) over the forces of darkness (inevitably including, for Serrano, the Jews) in a last battle and inaugurating a Fourth Reich. He also connected the Aryans and their Hyperborean gods to the Sun and the Allies and the Jews to the Moon. Julius Evola believed Hyperboreans were Nordic supermen, originating in the north pole. He felt they had a crucial hand in the founding of Atlantis. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperborea">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperborea</a><hr></blockquote> Richard believes in this mythical land to the north. Yes. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>In Dawn Behind the Dawn: A Search for the Earthly Paradise (Holt, 1992), cultural historian Geoffrey Ashe theorises that the idea of a lost paradise began with a goddess-worshipping cult in the region of the Altai-Baikal region of northern Asia some 25,000 years ago. The book is erudite and impressively researched, touching on subjects ranging from Near Eastern mythology to Indo-European philology to modern feminism. Ashe summarises his reconstruction as follows: “Tens of thousands of years ago, shamans in Siberia and Mongolia held the seven-star constellation [Ursa Major] in reverence. It was all the more important because the pole, which it ruled, was not marked then by a separate polestar of conspicuous brightness. ...The chief deity was a powerful Earth Mother and Mistress of Animals, with whom female shamans were closely associated. Her cult and symbolism, passing from tribe to tribe, played a part in forming the Paleolithic Goddess substratum across Siberia and Europe. Her chief animal form was a bear.... “The constellation built up a unique numinosity, partly because of its relation to the pole and hence to shamans’ ideas of comic centrality, expressed in the image of a central tree or world-mountain, which they climbed in their trances to meet superior spirits. In the Altai region, actual gold that gave the range a name, and an actual mountain cult, helped to evoke the divine world-mountain as golden.... “Late in the fourth millennium B.C., around the Altai, Indo-European groupings such as the Afanasievo came under shamanic influence and acquired a mythical ‘package’ comprising some of the ancient themes, which in the hands of these new people took on a rekindled life and energy. The package included the golden world-mountain... this eventually evolved into golden Meru, central to the universe, a paradisal abode of gods. It also included the seven stars... and something of the connected [mystique surrounding the number seven]. The mythical package was carried south and southwest in Indo-European expansion.” Ashe cites the Tibetan Shambhala legend as referring to the original Altaic homeland. Victoria Le Page’s Shambhala: The Fascinating Truth Behind the Myth of Shangri-La (Quest, 1996) is an esotericist’s view of the same materials. Le Page has read Ashe carefully — as well as earlier scholars on the subject, such as René Guénon and Nicholas Roerich. Guénon interprets the paradise mountain — Mount Meru in Buddhist lore — as not a mountain at all, but “a metaphor for a conduit of terrestrial energy constituting the earth’s primary power source whose nature, location, and function is presently unknown to us. [Guénon] suggests that the knowledge of this fact belongs to a most arcane and little-known branch of the tantric science that is concerned with cosmic Shakti and the building of worlds, and which for that reason has been jealously guarded from the public view for many thousands of years.” Le Page follows occultist Nicholas Roerich in his quest to find the true geographical Shambhala — in the Altai mountains. But she has more than a historical interest in decoding the myth. For her, Shambhala — the realm of jewel lakes, wish-fulfilling trees, and speaking stones — is central to the “new world model,” the ideology of the New Age. “Shambhala has had many locations, many names, many forms; over the ages it has been known as a taboo region of Paleolithic magic, a vast Megalithic sanctuary, a sacred kingdom, and underground Wisdom center, a modern complex of ashrams and training-schools.... Its credibility has probably never been so severely tested as in this age of high technology, dense population and intensive exploration; and yet in another sense we have never been more open to transcendental ideas, to the possibility of dimensions unseen, of higher-order beings and energies and presences celestial, of guidance from above.” Olga Kharitidi, M.D., provides still more insight into the Shambhala myth in her recent book, Entering the Circle: Ancient Secrets of Siberian Wisdom Discovered by a Russian Psychiatrist (Harper Collins, 1996). This riveting autobiographical narrative is the latest entry in the New Age/shamanic adventure genre pioneered in the books of Carlos Castaneda and Lynn Andrews (and more recently in the Celestine Prophecy and Mutant Message from Down Under). Fortunately, Entering the Circle is not just an attempt to cash in on a publishing trend; in fact, it may be the best-written book of its kind so far. The author, formerly a psychiatrist in a Siberian mental hospital, is invited by a former patient to meet his new teacher, a female shaman who lives in a remote village in the Altai mountains. The curious but skeptical psychiatrist soon finds herself launched into a chain of events that will forever change her views of healing, science, and consciousness. Like Castaneda, Kharitidi is taken into apprenticeship by a magician with baffling powers, illogical habits, and a bizarre sense of humour. But Uma — the author’s spiritual teacher — offers more than the standard lessons in transcending time, space, and rationality; she also unlocks a gateway to what could be the fountainhead of the world’s spiritual truths. Nearly every culture maintains some vestige of shamanic rituals, practices that date back to Paleolithic times. In his classic study of shamanism, historian of religion Mircea Eliade traced the phenomenon to the natives of Siberia. And as we have just seen, Geoffrey Ashe and Victoria Le Page, in their books, have suggested that the universal ancient myth of a lost paradisal kingdom — the birthplace of civilisation and religion — may refer to a site somewhere in the Altaic mountains bordering Siberia and Mongolia. Thus when Kharitidi’s Altaic spiritual guide begins to tell her about Belovodia (the local name for Shambhala), one gets the sense that a tremendous secret may be on the verge of disclosure. Back in the city of Novosibirsk, Kharitidi meets a nuclear physicist whose research into the fringes of human consciousness dovetails with her own exploding interest in the mysteries of the soul. Working together, they retrieve more knowledge about the fabled Belovodia. “There have always been people within each [spiritual tradition] who were directly in touch with Belovodia,” writes the physicist during an exploratory trance session. “From time to time, knowledge from there has been opened up to your own civilisation. This has happened at moments of real threat to humanity. It is becoming open to you again now, because the power and energy you have accumulated are capable of causing many different kinds of catastrophes. Belovodia is becoming accessible to your consciousness to protect you by showing you other ways to live.” Kharitidi’s story — convincingly told — seems destined to become a classic and deserves at least as wide a readership as the spectacularly successful (but fictional and clumsily written) The Celestine Prophecy.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/Articles/Back%20to%20Paradise.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com.a...adise.html</a> Heinberg-----Golden Age-------Siberia-----Hyperborea. Why important? This mythology belongs to the Thule Society. yes. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A primary focus of Thule-Gesellschaft was a claim concerning the origins of the Aryan race. "Thule" was a land located by Greco-Roman geographers in the furthest north. The society was named after "Ultima Thule" — (Latin: most distant Thule) mentioned by the Roman poet Vergil in his epic poem Aeneid, was the far northern segment of Thule and is generally understood to mean Scandinavia. Said by Nazi mystics to be the capital of ancient Hyperborea, they placed Ultima Thule in the extreme north near Greenland or Iceland. The Thulists believed in the hollow earth theory. Thule had among its goals the desire to prove that the Aryan race came from a lost continent, perhaps Atlantis. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society</a> <hr></blockquote> Heinberg---mythical Golden Age from the North. Indo-Europeans. Aryans. from the north. from the north. Another name is Hyperborea. It is clear. Clear! Richard writes for New Dawn. Richard talks of Eurasianism. New Dawn talks of Eurasianism. Richard talks of Alexander Dugin. Dugin writes for New Dawn. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"New Dawn magazine is one of the best sources of realistic information on the state of things in our world as it nears its inevitable and predicted end. For some people it could seem to be a little bit strange and weird, phantasmagoric... But the reality in which we live is itself something strange and weird... New Dawn magazine helps us to persist. And gives us hope for the better world that is coming..." – ALEXANDRE DUGIN, leader of International Eurasian Movement <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/whatisnewdawn.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com.a...wdawn.html</a><hr></blockquote> But I have posted this. Who is Dugin? Richard says this: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Meanwhile, in Russia political theorist Alexander Dugin was gaining increasing influence with anti-American geostrategic writings. In 1997, the same year Brzezinski's The Grand Chessboard appeared, Dugin published his own manifesto, The Basics of Geopolitics, advocating a reconstituted Russian Empire composed of a continental bloc of states allied to cleanse the Eurasian land-mass of US influence. At the center of this bloc Dugin posited a "Eurasian axis" of Russia, Germany, Iran, and Japan. While Dugin's ideas were banned during Soviet times for their echoes of Nazi pan-Eurasian fantasies, they gradually gained influence among post-Soviet Russian officials. For example, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs recently decried the "strengthening tendency towards the formation of a unipolar world under financial and military domination by the United States" and called for a "multipolar world order," while emphasizing Russia's "geopolitical position as the largest Eurasian state." Russia's Communist party has adopted Dugin's ideas in its platform; Gennady Zyuganov, Communist Party chairman, even published his own primer on geopolitics, titled Geography of Victory. Though Dugin remains a marginal figure internationally, his ideas cannot help but resonate in a country and continent increasingly hemmed in and manipulated by a powerful and arrogant hegemonic nation on the other side of the globe. <a href="http://www.museletter.com/archive/132.html">www.museletter.com/archive/132.html</a> <hr></blockquote> Eurasianism. Dugin. Richard. Dugin preaches Hyperborea. (From New Dawn. Richard likes New Dawn. Richard likes Dugin.) <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Madame Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophical Society, claimed the ‘second root race’ originated in Hyperborea, before the later races of Lemuria and Atlantis. The Russian metaphysician Alexandre Dugin says that it was the home of the “solar people”, connected to what is now northern Russia. “Solar people,” Alexandre Dugin explains, are a “cultural-spiritual type” who are creative, energetic and spiritual. They are the opposite of “lunar people”, a psycho-spiritual type who are materialistic, conservative and wary of change. <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/New_Eurasia_A_New_Vision_for_the_Third_Millennium.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com/a...nnium.html</a><hr></blockquote> Did you read above. Miguel Serrano talks of Shambala too. Like Richard. Who are moon people? Who are sun people? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>He (Serrano, from quote on Hyperborea) also connected the Aryans and their Hyperborean gods to the Sun and the Allies and the Jews to the Moon.<hr></blockquote> Thule is the capital of Hyperborea. The mythical land of the North. Dugin says: The ancient Greeks spoke about Hyperborea, the northern island with capital Thule. This land was considered as the motherland of the bright god Apollon. And in many other traditions it is possible to detect most ancient tracks, often forgotten and become fragmentary, of a nordic symbolism. The basic idea traditionally linked to the North is the idea of Centre, Immobile Pole, point of Eternity around which the cycle turns not only of space, but also of time. North is the land where the sun never goes even at night, a space of eternal light. Any sacred tradition honors the Centre, the Middle, the point where contrasts appease, the symbolical place not subject to the laws of cosmic entropy. This Centre, whose symbol is the Swastika (stressing both immobility and constancy of the Centre, and mobility and changeability of the periphery), received a different name according to each tradition, but it was always directly or indirectly linked to the symbolism of North. Therefore it is possible to say that all sacred traditions are in essence the projection of a Single Northern Primordial Tradition adapted to every different historical condition. North is Cardinal Point chosen by the primeval Logos in order to reveal itself in History, and each of its further manifestations only restored that primeval polar-paradise symbolism. <a href="http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/sacgeo.html">www.geocities.com/integra...acgeo.html</a> Can you not see? Richard preaches the end of the West. Richard praises Eurasianism. Richard praises Dugin. Richard speaks of mythical land of the Golden Age in the North. Shambala. Hyperborea. Thule. Why is this hard? Why is this not clear? Eurasianism is rightwing nationalist movement based on myth of an Aryan Golden Age. Thule. Hyperborea. Shambala. Richard writes for New Dawn Magazine. Many articles for them. He links to them. He is not ASHAMED. It is not an ACCIDENT. Richard writes of the decline of the West because he desires it. It is time for the Eurasian ascension. Apocalypse is his Messiah.

by **AnnaLivia** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:29 pm

Veritas, few words, then have to go help my mom until later today…when I’ll be back to read ALL your last post and tackle this head-on again. EYE NOSE EYE am frustrating you. Hope you can imagine how frustrating this all is for me. please know how much I appreciate yr patience! don’t despair. I’m not a bad investment of yr time on this. I just might provide good returns… Know many people who need to know if true… searching absolutely honestly…have a big mouth… Like IR said…describing? Or condoning? Heinberg not to say a big loud caveat makes very suspicious…but conclusion yet to come… My kids gave me a delightful piece of artwork last year, that’ll help you understand where I come from. It says this: “I asked her why she never told us about the Ten Commandments and she said she wasn’t ever that good with numbers so she loved everything as best she could and I remember thinking who needs all those rules anyway with a mother like her around.” (from artist Brian Andreas at www.storypeople.com ,if anyone is interested) You’re talking to a gal who is stuck exactly halfway between mourning her lack of formal education, and knowing it’s often her SAVING GRACE. World history? Not up to snuff. Religious history? I could hardly be more ignorant. (love a rascal called god. My book says God = life) Mysticism? Like banned, geez, electricity is “mystical” to me! har har! Could I read finnegans wake better or worse with a great education?? How many like me…so many…not stupid, just ignorant? Bet you have a PHD. Jealous, but then not. repeat. A most most difficult task…like being thrown into the middle of the pool and learning to swim that way. So curious, so determined to suss this out. I know how key it is to unlearn what isn’t true. Am always struggling not to get mired in details at expense of big picture…this looks like details on surface, but I suspect it’s not…oh, more later…thanks to stay with simple me… ps; Is wintler aghast that I’m moving into his/her neighborhood soon? Chuckle chuckle! Have a great day, everyone…unless you have other plans… Love from Anna-the-curly-grrl (wintler, you know Mr. Curly and Vasco Pyjama and the duck whose bill always points to new joys?) life is beautiful!

by **wintler** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:47 pm

Okay Veritas, so Heinberg has been published in New Dawn alongside various weavers of Thule Soc. type spells, once quoted favourably a pretty shady source, and has had book/s endorsed by V.Abernethy & D.Pimental. Thats not nothing, not at all, good on you for bringing it up. But its not decisive for me. How do you explain Heinbergs advocacy of relocalisation (surely counter to fascist aims), his stated belief that there was at least govt. complicity in 911 [ <a href="http://www.energybulletin.net/689.html">www.energybulletin.net/689.html</a> ] and call for real investigation and prosecutions? Nowhere yet have i seen Heinberg call for anyone to do things his way, call for anyone to disengage from politics or stop supporting judicial processes (this has been a common criticism of peak oilers). He's on about sustainability, and community, and 'living simply that others can simply live': ".. So we have to learn to use much less and that's a message American's don't like to hear. We have the world's largest propaganda system, called the advertising industry telling us in every possible way to use more and only that will make us happy, only that will make us fulfilled. That message has to be reversed and we have to become aware of these issues and talk about them with each other. Now that's a hard sell, it's so much easier to provide scapegoats, to say that there are enemies who wish to undermine our way of life and if only we will mobilize and eliminate those enemies, those sources of evil in the world. We can maintain our way of life in which we are unique, ah god has given it to us after all. " [from link] I don't believe a concious fascist would be making those arguments. Maybe he's deceived, but can you tell me Veritas or Proldic if you think that is so & in any case how Heinbergs message serves fascist/dark ends?

by **veritas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:27 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>How do you explain Heinbergs advocacy of relocalisation (surely counter to fascist aims), <hr></blockquote> Have you read this yet? Important puzzle piece. <a href="http://www.spunk.org/library/places/germany/sp001630/peter.html">www.spunk.org/library/pla...peter.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>These latter two fixations matured in the second half of the nineteenth century in the context of the völkisch movement, a powerful cultural disposition and social tendency which united ethnocentric populism with nature mysticism. At the heart of the völkisch temptation was a pathological response to modernity. In the face of the very real dislocations brought on by the triumph of industrial capitalism and national unification, völkisch thinkers preached a return to the land, to the simplicity and wholeness of a life attuned to nature's purity. The mystical effusiveness of this perverted utopianism was matched by its political vulgarity. While "the Volkish movement aspired to reconstruct the society that was sanctioned by history, rooted in nature, and in communion with the cosmic life spirit," 8 it pointedly refused to locate the sources of alienation, rootlessness and environmental destruction in social structures, laying the blame instead to rationalism, cosmopolitanism, and urban civilization.<hr></blockquote> Compare, please: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Now, it can be argued that civilization per se is not at fault, that the problems we face have to do with unique economic and historical circumstances. But we should at least consider the possibility that our modern industrial system represents the flowering of tendencies that go back quite far. This, at any rate, is the implication of recent assessments of the ecological ruin left in the wake of the Roman, Mesopotamian, Chinese, and other prior civilizations. Are we perhaps repeating their errors on a gargantuan scale? --------snip for brevity..please read all------------------ The image of a lost Golden Age of freedom and innocence is at the heart of all the world's religions, is one of the most powerful themes in the history of human thought, and is the earliest and most characteristic expression of primitivism--the perennial belief in the necessity of a return to origins. As a philosophical idea, primitivism has had as its proponents Lao Tze, Rousseau, and Thoreau, as well as most of the pre-Socratics, the medieval Jewish and Christian theologians, and 19th- and 20th-century anarchist social theorists, all of whom argued (on different bases and in different ways) the superiority of a simple life close to nature. More recently, many anthropologists have expressed admiration for the spiritual and material advantages of the ways of life of the world's most "primitive" societies--the surviving gathering-and-hunting peoples who now make up less than one hundredth of one percent of the world's population. <a href="http://www.eco-action.org/dt/critique.html">www.eco-action.org/dt/critique.html</a><hr></blockquote> Wintler said: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> his stated belief that there was at least govt. complicity in 911 [ www.energybulletin.net/689.html ] and call for real investigation and prosecutions?<hr></blockquote> No, this is not important. Many fascists do the same, right here! Also wintler: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Maybe he's deceived, but can you tell me Veritas or Proldic if you think that is so & in any case how Heinbergs message serves fascist/dark ends?<hr></blockquote> Is he deceived or deceiver? Not on Abernathy. No. She is too well known. No mistake. Does he know who Dugin is? Does he know what New Dawn is? Yes. He still links there. He is not ashamed. There is a message broadcast from MANY corners. Some are extreme, angry and harsh like shattered glass at midnight. Some are soft and lulling like a plush chair before a warm and cozy fire. They warn us that the end is near. They comfort us that a Golden Age will come. A time of purging is coming. Are you one of the chosen? Will u live 2 see the Dawn? Dugin of the left-hand path says: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> We have forgiven nobody; we have forgotten nothing. We have not been deceived by the change of social scenery and political actors. We have a very good memory, we have very "long arms". We have a very severe tradition. Mazes of life, spirals of ideas, vortexes of anger... <a href="http://arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm">arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm</a><hr></blockquote> The storm is coming. The fire is crackling. yes.

by **veritas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>It worth mentioning that in early 90's the National Bolsheviks and their main ideologist Alexander Dugin tried to bring Aleister Crowley's ideas to wide popular masses in Russia with enviable persistence. In this situation of course neither esoteric Crowley nor Crowley the Magician but Crowley the "Conservative Revolutionary", a fearless fighter against the mondialist regime was meant. Everything started at the beginning of 1993 from the visit to Moscow of someone remarkable figure who called himself "frater Marcion", the head of the O. T. O. in France. Excerpts from his interview were shown in Alexander Dugin's TV-programme and than reprinted in Dugin's almanac Mily Angel ("The Sweet Angel"<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> #2 and the book The way to Apocalypses. Knocking to the Golden Gate (the first edition - 1997) by Yury Vorobyevsky, Dugin's associate at that time. Having introduced himself as the head of the French branch of the O. T. O. "frater Marcion" went into verbose reasoning on close connection between Nazism and secret societies, alleged that everything "what was said about what had been happening in Nazi concentration camps was a tremendous overestimation" and at last significantly promised to the audience that "they would see the outcomes of my visit to Russia by themselves in the nearest future". He was absolutely right anyway in his last allegation. But first of all some information is to be delivered: "frater Marcion's" real name is Christian Bouchet. In his native land he is mainly known not by his investigations on Magick but by his activities in a neo-Nazi group Nouvelle Resistance (New Resistance), indefatigable struggle against Zionism and intimate friendship with Islamic fundamentalists from Iran and Libya. He never headed any "branch of the O. T. O." in France. Actually, Bouchet had been a member of the Order for about ten years but he was expelled for breaking the Manual after having got just the first degree of initiation. It worth mentioning that he was expelled from the Order in 1992 i. e. still before his visit to Russia. It's difficult to say either the French rogue deceived Russian "conservative revolutionaries", who gave him opportunity to speak on behalf of the O. T. O. in their native media, or the latter themselves participated in the fraud. However, one really shouldn't suppose that the "conservative revolutionaries" are too scrupulous. For instance, they incorporated excerpts from the anti-freemason feature movie "Occult forces" (1943) by French fascist Bernard Fey into their 1995 TV-program "Mysteries of the century" covering inter alia the O. T. O. and Crowley. When the program was demonstrated a voice beyond the scene alleged this "sequence had been taken in the Lodge of the Scotch ritual". The simple calculation was based exclusively on complete ignorance of the Russian audience that didn't see the movie and therefore took actors as real freemasons. It's funny that in the same years the "conservative revolutionaries" even tried to use the name of Crowley in their 1995 election campaign to the Russian parliament. At the arranged for young people pre-election concerts they recited excerpts from The Book of the Law mixing them up with singing Soviet patriotic songs. ------------snip--------------- In Spring 2000 the Supreme Council of the Order issued the Charter for foundation of the first Russian branch of the O. T. O. - Pan's Asylum Camp. The members of the Order who recently visited Russia repeatedly said the Magick of Thelema would get a lot of passionate followers in this country. There are reasons to consider the forecast will prove to be correct in the nearest future. <a href="http://www.oto.ru/cgi/texteng.pl/article/texts/2">www.oto.ru/cgi/texteng.pl...le/texts/2</a> <hr></blockquote>

by **veritas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:04 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I take a rapid google and find the man teaches a couple of courses at a place called New College of California, but that's low on staff profiles.<hr></blockquote> You are fast! <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Results 1 - 10 of about 234,000 for "Richard Heinberg". <hr></blockquote> So maybe is not a good thread for you to read. It will waste your time. There are many other threads on this board. Enjoy them! For others...here is more. Who are the "Emissaries of Divine Light"? Richard knows. Yes he does. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>(From an interview) I became a writer and lived in a number of intentional communities. SS: Which ones? RH: One in Toronto, Canada called Society of Integrated Living, SOIL for short; one in Colorado called <a href="http://www.sunriseranch.org/">Sunrise Ranch</a>… SS: Which is a spiritual community? RH: That’s right. In the early ‘90s my wife and I moved from an intentional community in Southern California called <a href="http://www.glenivy.org/">Glen Ivy</a> up to Santa Rosa and I decided from that point on I would make my living completely as a writer. I wrote several books on environmental spiritual themes, one called "Celebrate the Solstice," another "A New Covenant with Nature." Then toward the end of the ‘90s I read a Colin Campbell/Jean Laherrere article in Scientific American, and that set some gears going. I got on the energy resources list and started reading Jay Hanson's “Die Off” web site and all the links and recommended readings there. It basically turned my whole world around. I had written a whole book criticizing industrialism and the whole industrial revolution without any reference at all to energy (laughs). This completely reorganized my thinking. <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2005/9/24/233315/937">www.theoildrum.com/story/...233315/937</a> <hr></blockquote> Sunrise Ranch. Glen Ivy. Run by the Emissaries of Divine Light. Do they bring us light, or darkness? Former members know. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Sexual abuses and cover-up's were made public during the first "open" council (described earlier). Exeter (leader of group) and his wife denied knowing about the abuses, though I personally knew two people who had informed them in writing about particular abuses. Women have told me they were seduced, coerced, threatened, and even stalked by men in leadership positions. They have told me about sexual abuse of children. I have heard that in central and eastern regions of the U.S., teenagers were forced to lose their virginity to their group leaders, with the explanation that this guaranteed a spiritually sound beginning to their sex life. I don't know if this was done in all regions and in Canada. ---------------------snip--------------------------- (From Interview with former member...not Richard...no confusion)  I was told it was vital to confide everything about my life, including my finances and sexual life. At first it was spelled out completely, to whom I was to tell what. Later the instructions were revised and one could communicate to anyone "upwards." After that I discovered that reports were written about us locally and sent to regional coordinators, who then reported to Exeter . Class faculties also wrote reports about each student. I don't know if these practices continue. <a href="http://www.factnet.org/cults/Emissaries_Divine_Light/Barbara_Clearbridge.html#Sexuality">www.factnet.org/cults/Emi...#Sexuality</a> <hr></blockquote> Is he still an Emissary? Do others know his secrets?

Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

Hitler was a vegeterian

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Heinberg and nazi occult

Heinberg and nazi occult

Darre

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brain exhausted and i just don't get it

heinberg and dugin

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