Welcome to... The Saloon

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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby minime » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:29 pm

I used to have that in the LP...

43 years ago!
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:47 pm

Pssh! Babes! I was boogieing to this, back when:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbfnh1oVTk0

But regret not yet having been around for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcq93txBdtM
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby chump » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:00 pm

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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby chump » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:07 am

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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:08 pm

in honor of Sean Hannity being Michael Cohen's client I'm buying a round :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7g3RuoreRc
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TENDER AGE SHELTERS = INTERNMENT CAMPS

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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:04 am

I'm writing this because I've been thinking about why the board doesn't capture my interest anymore. I figured it must be more than just the lack of comments in poster's own words, which I feel discourages discussion. For what it's worth, I thought I'd share my critique of the board, with the board. When I become disillusioned with something, I often do a critique like this, for my own benefit. And I think the spaces I inhabit, both on and off the internet - including my own mind - deserve nothing less than rigorous critique. Maybe you'll get something out of it, as well.

First off: I'm full of shit, and so are you. Everyone is full of it. Being aware of this at all times is imperative. If someone isn't conscious of the fact that they are full of shit, they're doubly full of shit. Notice that most of what you read is written by people who are not conscious of this simple fact.

This is true everywhere. But I hold Rigorous Intuition to a higher standard. A community of fearless and passionate people asking hard questions, with the wealth of information that is this board's legacy, should know better. So I'm tougher on this community, and also more disappointed in it when it fails to own up.

I've realized that the lack of poster commentary is just a 'straw that broke the camel's back.' The big pile of straw is important, though, not only the final one. What the big pile of straw amounts to, is something like this:

Posts with no commentary or critique is basically Show and Tell (the excerise that teachers give to kids as a homework assignment) for grown-ups. (I'm using the term very loosely) Pay attention now, class.

However, arguing against show and tell, and for critique and commentary, doesn't mean we should graduate to Current Events, the homework assignment for the next grade. Find a newspaper clipping and summarize. This is far, far from critique, and way beneath the dignity of this board. In my opinion. Obviously there are many of you here that live for this stuff.

So critique and commentary as an overall practice has become passe here. Yes, there are still some posters who are interested in doing it. But as an overall practice, no. (And yes, there are still passionate posters. But passion has also become very unpopular. It makes people squirm uncomfortably. Personally, I'll take passion over the poppy field afternoon tea party tone, any day.)

I want to say it's the social mediatization effect that causes this. The tweet, the stream chat, the text message, the social media comment and 'like' are corrosive to the synapses. We take turns, 'reproducing the spectacle' and reacting to the reproductions. This mode of thinking is having a much greater effect on culture and society than we give it credit for.

Although, that might not be such a bad thing, depending on how you look at it. Culture and society ain't no great shakes. It's junk food, unfit for human consumption. Wouldn't feed it to my dog. And my cat, forget about it. He has better sense than that.

Before you label me a nihilist, the current trendy word for dismissing all things you don't understand, let me clarify.
I am, uh, part of a time-honored tradition of going beyond tradition. The poet, the visionary, these worn out words have baggage that doesn't apply. Suffice it say that I've chosen to undertake the long, painful process of liberation of the senses.

It takes time to rid one's self of what is known - the sayings and concepts, the way they are expressed and their basic values. Everything customary, all the trappings of the dualistic mind, they are to be gently set aside, out of the way.

There are others on this board who have chosen this process. I know who you are. Don't worry, nothing that you've said reveals it. It's something underneath, behind the words. Looking at the screen, I can't see it. When I look through the screen right at you, though, it's easy. To you, I say: if working here at the new Rigorous Intuition is good for you, I get it. I know that no time is wasted if you are working. One person (me) can stay up every night binge watching bad horror movies until the sun comes up and it is fuel for the process. Another will do the same thing, but use it to shut down and escape.

It's the same with everything, even this message board. So if this message board is a place where you do your work, I can understand that. It just isn't a place for me. My place is scary non-euclidian spaces and old graveyards. Well, a different kind of old graveyard than this board! haha

So you see, I'm no nihilist. Or maybe you don't get it. The non-lineage of the oldest, newest, unnamed and unmentionable secret society isn't for everyone.

But if you aren't one of us, do everyone a favor and don't put on airs pretending like you are. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself, anyway, and it makes you look like an idiot.

But getting back to my point. I can't say it's merely the social mediatization effect that causes this collapse of critique. If I say it's consumerism, or authoritarianism, I know you won't hear me, beacuse of your reflex defense mechanisms to those words.

So I'll say it's age-ism. Not like age discrimination, but acting like being twenty, forty, or sixty means anything more than just that. I know you are a person in time, by virtue of the fact that you are reading these words. It goes without saying. But you make a fetish of it. You escape into the past, escape into the future, escape into the present. Even though you know the only thing worth escaping from is escaping. You know this! You've come in contact with Rigorous Intuition, afterall, haven't you. But go ahead, make a mockery of the board. You know what's best for you, you're two whole score years old. Oh, three score? My goodness. And you're still riding on your robot tracks, I see. That's quite an accomplishment.

So, something like that is what I think the problem is, here. Now, I'm being extra tough on you fine posters, because again, this is Rigorous Intuition. You're here because you have the ability to ask hard questions in pursuit of simple truth. This means you're a creative individual. It's in there, somewhere. I know this because you need creativity to pursue simple truth. Of course, creativity is another of those words with a lot of baggage. By creativity I mean real creativity, whcih is pure originality. Creativity which doesn't rebel against the old and the used is not real originality, that's just fantasy.

And so we come to simple truth. Not the facts, not the opposite of lies. The simple truth is something more subtle, more difficult to pin down than that. It's like true alien contact, which will always be nine-tenths subjective. Or like investigating a true haunting, the electrical instruments will always malfunction, the film will become mysteriously exposed. Or like a true synchronicity, it cannot be proved to the complete satisfaction of a rational mind. That's how you know when these things are real.

And you should know this already. I mean, how long have you been reading Rigorous fucking Intuition?

(This is my last real post here, I hope you liked it. I am allowing myself ten more posts after this one, but I'm going to save them for when I have something important to say. Directions to my new graveyard or whatever.)
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby chump » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:57 am

Sh-h-h-sh!



I'M TRYING TO USE THE PHONE!!
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby minime » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:05 pm

Iamwhomiam » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:47 pm wrote:Pssh! Babes! I was boogieing to this, back when:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbfnh1oVTk0

But regret not yet having been around for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcq93txBdtM


Gave a listen to Sugarchile. What a trip.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby minime » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:52 pm

dada » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:04 am wrote:I'm writing this because I've been thinking about why the board doesn't capture my interest anymore. I figured it must be more than just the lack of comments in poster's own words, which I feel discourages discussion. For what it's worth, I thought I'd share my critique of the board, with the board. When I become disillusioned with something, I often do a critique like this, for my own benefit. And I think the spaces I inhabit, both on and off the internet - including my own mind - deserve nothing less than rigorous critique. Maybe you'll get something out of it, as well.

First off: I'm full of shit, and so are you. Everyone is full of it. Being aware of this at all times is imperative. If someone isn't conscious of the fact that they are full of shit, they're doubly full of shit. Notice that most of what you read is written by people who are not conscious of this simple fact.

This is true everywhere. But I hold Rigorous Intuition to a higher standard. A community of fearless and passionate people asking hard questions, with the wealth of information that is this board's legacy, should know better. So I'm tougher on this community, and also more disappointed in it when it fails to own up.

I've realized that the lack of poster commentary is just a 'straw that broke the camel's back.' The big pile of straw is important, though, not only the final one. What the big pile of straw amounts to, is something like this:

Posts with no commentary or critique is basically Show and Tell (the excerise that teachers give to kids as a homework assignment) for grown-ups. (I'm using the term very loosely) Pay attention now, class.

However, arguing against show and tell, and for critique and commentary, doesn't mean we should graduate to Current Events, the homework assignment for the next grade. Find a newspaper clipping and summarize. This is far, far from critique, and way beneath the dignity of this board. In my opinion. Obviously there are many of you here that live for this stuff.

So critique and commentary as an overall practice has become passe here. Yes, there are still some posters who are interested in doing it. But as an overall practice, no. (And yes, there are still passionate posters. But passion has also become very unpopular. It makes people squirm uncomfortably. Personally, I'll take passion over the poppy field afternoon tea party tone, any day.)

I want to say it's the social mediatization effect that causes this. The tweet, the stream chat, the text message, the social media comment and 'like' are corrosive to the synapses. We take turns, 'reproducing the spectacle' and reacting to the reproductions. This mode of thinking is having a much greater effect on culture and society than we give it credit for.

Although, that might not be such a bad thing, depending on how you look at it. Culture and society ain't no great shakes. It's junk food, unfit for human consumption. Wouldn't feed it to my dog. And my cat, forget about it. He has better sense than that.

Before you label me a nihilist, the current trendy word for dismissing all things you don't understand, let me clarify.
I am, uh, part of a time-honored tradition of going beyond tradition. The poet, the visionary, these worn out words have baggage that doesn't apply. Suffice it say that I've chosen to undertake the long, painful process of liberation of the senses.

It takes time to rid one's self of what is known - the sayings and concepts, the way they are expressed and their basic values. Everything customary, all the trappings of the dualistic mind, they are to be gently set aside, out of the way.

There are others on this board who have chosen this process. I know who you are. Don't worry, nothing that you've said reveals it. It's something underneath, behind the words. Looking at the screen, I can't see it. When I look through the screen right at you, though, it's easy. To you, I say: if working here at the new Rigorous Intuition is good for you, I get it. I know that no time is wasted if you are working. One person (me) can stay up every night binge watching bad horror movies until the sun comes up and it is fuel for the process. Another will do the same thing, but use it to shut down and escape.

It's the same with everything, even this message board. So if this message board is a place where you do your work, I can understand that. It just isn't a place for me. My place is scary non-euclidian spaces and old graveyards. Well, a different kind of old graveyard than this board! haha

So you see, I'm no nihilist. Or maybe you don't get it. The non-lineage of the oldest, newest, unnamed and unmentionable secret society isn't for everyone.

But if you aren't one of us, do everyone a favor and don't put on airs pretending like you are. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself, anyway, and it makes you look like an idiot.

But getting back to my point. I can't say it's merely the social mediatization effect that causes this collapse of critique. If I say it's consumerism, or authoritarianism, I know you won't hear me, beacuse of your reflex defense mechanisms to those words.

So I'll say it's age-ism. Not like age discrimination, but acting like being twenty, forty, or sixty means anything more than just that. I know you are a person in time, by virtue of the fact that you are reading these words. It goes without saying. But you make a fetish of it. You escape into the past, escape into the future, escape into the present. Even though you know the only thing worth escaping from is escaping. You know this! You've come in contact with Rigorous Intuition, afterall, haven't you. But go ahead, make a mockery of the board. You know what's best for you, you're two whole score years old. Oh, three score? My goodness. And you're still riding on your robot tracks, I see. That's quite an accomplishment.

So, something like that is what I think the problem is, here. Now, I'm being extra tough on you fine posters, because again, this is Rigorous Intuition. You're here because you have the ability to ask hard questions in pursuit of simple truth. This means you're a creative individual. It's in there, somewhere. I know this because you need creativity to pursue simple truth. Of course, creativity is another of those words with a lot of baggage. By creativity I mean real creativity, whcih is pure originality. Creativity which doesn't rebel against the old and the used is not real originality, that's just fantasy.

And so we come to simple truth. Not the facts, not the opposite of lies. The simple truth is something more subtle, more difficult to pin down than that. It's like true alien contact, which will always be nine-tenths subjective. Or like investigating a true haunting, the electrical instruments will always malfunction, the film will become mysteriously exposed. Or like a true synchronicity, it cannot be proved to the complete satisfaction of a rational mind. That's how you know when these things are real.

And you should know this already. I mean, how long have you been reading Rigorous fucking Intuition?

(This is my last real post here, I hope you liked it. I am allowing myself ten more posts after this one, but I'm going to save them for when I have something important to say. Directions to my new graveyard or whatever.)


Ha!
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:50 pm

I can't tell if your 'ha' is an endorsement, or dirisive, or something else entirely. Or maybe that inscrutability was the effect you were going for. But when you copy and paste my words like that, I can't agree with them. It's a matter of form, not content. One can take other people's pro-feminist words, pro-LGBTQ, pro-third world poor, poverty-class, words in support of the downtrodden and invisible, fashion them into a cudgel and swing it around, bludgeoning the reader like a barbarian. Re-contextualizing my own words like that, forces me to reject them on similar grounds. (For Rigorous Intuitives, this could be taken as constructive criticism. Or not. I'm betting not.)

Constructive criticism is a ruse, anyway, it's a trojan horse attack. Circle the wagons against the space invaders, club members. The great man theory of history must be preserved at all costs.

To the free, creative artist: Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own.

I absorbed that quote from Bruce Lee. I found it useful. However, name-dropping Bruce doesn't make the quote authoritative. I know you see what I'm getting at.

Hero worship in its myriad disguises great and small I find useless, and throw it in the trash. Again, this isn't dadaist nihilism. I'm not that kind of dada, never was. And what's in a name, anyway? A rose by any other would smell as sweet, or have you forgotten.

No, not dadaist nihilism. You stupid, vulgar, greedy, ugly American-like death-sucker, I say to no one in particular. You know my work is in bell diving the conscious mind into the unconscious, and dragging dreams into the light of day. I've been at it for a while, they even let me join the union. I still feel that its a worthy project, even more so, now that I remember the endgame. The goal is erasure of the boundary between dream and the conscious modes. I told my brother about recalling this, he said Svankmajer's latest film is about this very thing. I thought that was interesting. I'll have to look into it.

So, I guess that's it. Feel free to copy and paste my words and ha away. Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

And by the way, don't forget to deal in paradox. Remember that scene in High Priest, when Tim becomes enlightened while staring down into the trash can.

(Haven't found a new graveyard yet, just felt like wasting one of my allotted posts with this bit. Been writing, and this train of thought had Rigorous Intuition written all over it. Stopping posting here has freed up a bunch of creative energy, even penned some new lyrics. But I won't sing them here, even though it's open mic night at the saloon. Lucky you)
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby American Dream » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:00 pm

From the depatment of ghostly apparitions:

Dada hurts. Dada does not jest, for the reason that it was experienced by revolutionary men and not by philistines who demand that art be a decoration for the mendacity of their own emotions"...

Richard Huelsenbeck
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:54 pm

Like I said, I'm not that type of dada, never was. When I picked that name as my handle on discussion boards many moons ago, my girlfriend at the time had a kid who was reading the Harry Potter books. I got into them, too. Dada stands for Defense Against the Dark Arts. You know, like Severus Snape. (This was back when I was still into magic, before I realized what weak sauce it is.)

There was a time when I considered changing my handle here, but figured it wasn't worth hassling Jeff or the mods for something so trivial as a name on a discussion board. If I had done, you would know me as one of the various names that others know me as:

On Mark Alpiger's classic arcade board, I go by GIV, the initials I enter into a high score table on old video games. (That stands for 'George the fourth,' which is my given name and suffix.)

Alternately, I might have chosen Duncan Idontknow, as some people know me. (There are actually people who call me Duncan in real life.)

But my close friends know my true identity - Link, which is the handle I prefer. (I like the idea that the hero of hyrule is just some guy like me, who isn't at all what you'd expect him to be, and certainly not hero-like. Sort of like in one of those 'behind the scenes' Bugs Bunny cartoons when Bugs isn't acting.)

Of course the special folks at Rigorous Intuition gifted with the second sight know who I really am (dat rosa...) what I'm really all about (when you walk in a dream, but you know you're not dreaming, signore) and that I'm on a bad horror movie kick (Horror of Party Beach is cued up and ready to go. Popcorn is popping.)

And yes, this post on the saloon thread in the Rigorous Intuition lounge will be missed (or ignored) by others, who will continue under the illusion that I'm the other kind of dada. That's alright. It isn't my place to clear the fog of misunderstanding. I'm here for those with the sight.

So, now you know more about me than you've probably ever wished to know. All that aside, I can understand where Huelsenbeck is coming from in that quote. And I can see why dadaism devolved into nihilism and suicide. I can understand it, but I don't relate. Artistically, my stuff really does have more of a Kurt Schwitters Merz flavor. But I wouldn't say I'm Merz. I like me some Guy Debord, but I would never identify as a situationist. There's some aspects of surrealism I resonate with, but I don't like surrealists very much. (I always find Breton's tone pretentious, kind of like Julian Assange.) But this all goes with the Bruce Lee quote, see above.

"it was experienced by revolutionary men and not by philistines who demand that art be a decoration for the mendacity of their own emotions." I have a half-written story, about all the artists of the world getting together (complete and utter fantasy, I know) and deciding that to get away from all this rampant philistinism, the only effective act possible for the revolutionary artist of the moment is to stop creating. So they all go on strike.

At first, everyone laughs at the art strike. What a ridiculous idea! Only artists would come up with something that pointless! But after a while, it starts to shake society to its foundations. The art strike reminds everyone how effective the collective action can be if it's done right, and they start organizing their respective fields in earnest.

The twist is, without 'art,' everyone starts to see the world as it really is. Everything, everything is art. When the revolution is over, the pyramid collapses and capitalism is overturned, no one wants the artists to start creating again. The world is a better place without it.

Thanks, now I've wasted another of my allotted posts. haha. Only eight more posts until I turn into a pumpkin. Keep it going, I'll be out of here before you can say Jack Crosley.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby American Dream » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:39 pm

I'm all for the abolition of the Artist! I do feel that doing away with the alienated social role of "the Artist" would turn things upside down. We might all have to be artists or something. Which I'm good with.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby chump » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:45 pm

Image

Um, erh, ugh...oh... Please excuse me, por favor. I don't usually fall asleep at the ba... well, sometimes... not, well… ma-aybe usually.

Carry on.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:28 pm

A sincere exploration of the self and its senses, including the outer and inner contours of consciousness and conscience, most often leaves one surprised by the unexpected intuitive and instinctual components of our perceptions of the world.

A lifetime of experience and growth from infancy to infirmity tends to be circular rather than linear, in that we end up returning to the vital appreciation of love, nourishment, comfort and security as our physical needs and the ever-elusive soul satisfaction and spiritual essence of our divine light and connection to the infinite.

About midway on the circuit many of us tend to try dreaming, particularly lucid dreaming to enter into the realms and dimensions beyond the agreed-upon five. That often stimulates exploration of fear of the unknown and the monsters of our mind, which, in turn, can be vicariously found in fiction and horror films and magic. Those dark forces can also be uncovered in real life contact with truly evil threat.

Those diverted from their true path might find evil tempting, or nihilism attractive, or any preoccupation that lessens the inner imperative to reach their highest potential and maximum positive impact on those around them depending on them.

Some of the travelers on the circle get diverted by the circus, and leave to join it, or find a self-destructive path off the beaten one that might lead to the ultimate escape.

Or the one’s blinded by their own reflections grope their way up through the ranks to the grandstand and the p.a. system where they bellow their unfulfilled needs to the universe. They usually end up being surprised at coming back full circle from material riches to their tiny but formative non-material essence.
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