How series can you take threads with misspellings in title?

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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 pm

I've been meaning to start a general grammar thread here in the lounge for about a year now but have never gotten around to it. I am realizing why as I type this, it's because just the thought of writing about grammar is making me uncomfortably self conscious. I should be, I've forgotten some very basic rules of punctuation that I used to know, and spelling is always a challenge. All the ladies with whom I've used chat know exactly how well I type. :shock:

While I'm here however, I would like to know what happened to who. When did it become appropriate to refer to a person as that? It doesn't seem to matter whether the author is a child or a professional, who has virtually disappeared as a relative pronoun in dependent clauses over the last year or so. Now we get awful sentences like these: "He was the guy that gave me the cold shoulder." I think this is a subtle dehumanization creeping into our language.

Oh, and I have a grammar example almost everyone gets wrong, including most writers. I think it's because the now common but incorrect usage was popularized by American media, then radio and movies beginning way back in the early 20th century. It took the Brits longer to follow our bad example. Most people, when asked to point to themselves in a photo or some other similar scenario will say, "That is me." The correct pronoun to use is I, as in, "That is I." I is the subjective form of the personal first person singular pronoun, me is the objective form, and the above case represents an exception to subject and object rules. The subjective form of the pronoun is used after the verb to be. The same applies to the second and third person: "It was he who drew the picture." :)

Now I am fully aware of why my thread never made it out of the idea phase, this feels a bit silly.

On edit, someone correct my punctuation, thanks.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Laodicean » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:51 pm

When in doubt, refer to Diana Hacker.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:00 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:My favourite misspelling of all was from the Head of the English department in my high school.
One day we got to class and on the board was written:

"Meat in library"

:D

Butt serously, every ones got there personnel quirks.
Things we don't know we don't know (like that example above of let's sink up) or habitual typos...I'm always typing "jsut" instead of 'just,' for example, and I try to catch it but sometimes I'm in a rush and I don't. (I also mis-type 'don't' as dont' a lot)


Indeed - though typos are an altogether different animal.

A true typo is [generally] not an indication of illiteracy or lack of grammar, but rather an error in typing. In my book, that's acceptable (yes, I make my own rules here, in my mind). Besides, I for one generate typos on a semi-regular basis since I never learned how to typewrite formally -- my typewriting skills have evolved over time to include a couple more than 2 fingers trouncing about the keyboard seemingly haphazardly, invariably leading to an errant typo here and there..

But you touch on something else as well: the 'unknown unknown' misspelling, as opposed to the 'known unknown' misspelling. Which is worse?

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Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby justdrew » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:36 pm

Belligerent Savant wrote:I simply must share some of the BEST of the worst:

"I believe he may be a wall.." [instead of AWOL, in an attempt to indicate that a fellow colleague's whereabouts were unknown]

"Let's sink up when you have a moment.."

"Our roll for this engagement will be to...."

"do you happen to have any band with to assist..?"

"It's important we set the proper PRESIDENT when dealing with this client.." [the person that typed this particular gem is the HEAD OF HIS SEGMENT.

It's enough to make one contemplate.... culling.


I've seen a lot of that lately for some reason. predictive text entry in those little mobile bee killers may be part of the fault, but much must also lay with the relative scarcity of looking at professionally written and edited words. They're not exactly mis-spellings, perhaps they're good examples of the eggcorn, a type of homophonic transformation, as used in Soramimi (aka a mondegreen), for example...

From The Beatles' "I Want to Hold Your Hand":

I want to hold your hand
アホな放尿犯
Aho na hōnyōhan
(Idiotic public urination "hōnyōhan" is a legal term for the crime)
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:15 pm

justdrew wrote:I've seen a lot of that lately for some reason. predictive text entry in those little mobile bee killers may be part of the fault, but much must also lay with the relative scarcity of looking at professionally written and edited words. They're not exactly mis-spellings, perhaps they're good examples of the eggcorn, a type of homophonic transformation, as used in Soramimi (aka a mondegreen), for example...

From The Beatles' "I Want to Hold Your Hand":

I want to hold your hand
アホな放尿犯
Aho na hōnyōhan
(Idiotic public urination "hōnyōhan" is a legal term for the crime)


Yes -- good points. Though I should add my examples above were all typed by office goons sitting in front of a computer, sent in an email, not from a mobile bee-killing [and synapse-melting] PDA, so the auto-correct excuse doesn't work for those sorry souls, at least..
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:34 pm

.

Also noteworthy is that, at least for the examples I provided, spellcheck wouldn't catch them since the words are not misspelled, just utilized in the wrong context -- an example of illiteracy/ignorance
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby blanc » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:46 am

Examples of using a word in the wrong context are frequently funny, like
"Our roll for this engagement will be to...."
, which creates a pleasant mental diversion, inspiring images for 'engagement' with 'roll' and lightening the dull day. Let's not banish them.
Don't you love English for its disjoint between pronunciation and spelling?

Typos I find less jangling than the spell checker's insistence that an s can only be sugary or slippery, never buzz. How unrealistic, to banish it from 'realise'. Also, sometimes my cat joins in on the keyboard. He never had the benefit of schooling. Cut him some slack.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:59 am

Does anyone here actually leave the spell-check on?

That's something to run once you've completed a text that you wish to perfect (such as a manuscript submission to a real publisher).

The advent of real-time spell check, always on by default setting, is a significant station in humanity's capitulation to the Algorithm. (It's actually the Algorithm, not the Machine.) If you leave it on, and I've noticed most people never turn off the default settings,* then every word you write begins its life branded as provisionally false, until such time as you have completed it satisfactorily in the judgement of the Microsoft Corporation.



............................

* Most people don't even turn off the Fucking Paper Clip!
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Stephen Morgan » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:18 am

Abiword man myself. There's a spell checker on this site, which doesn't recognise "recognise", and other commonly used words. Not just because it's American, either.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby blanc » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:43 am

Does anyone here actually leave the spell-check on?


'Fraid so. A member of the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it school of computing' here. I'd rather steel myself to ignore the Americanisation (it just did it again to the 's'), than risk the mess I usually get when I try to customise (and again) anything in this portal. Sorry, I'll shut up now.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:00 am

blanc wrote:Examples of using a word in the wrong context are frequently funny, like
"Our roll for this engagement will be to...."
, which creates a pleasant mental diversion, inspiring images for 'engagement' with 'roll' and lightening the dull day. Let's not banish them.
Don't you love English for its disjoint between pronunciation and spelling?

Typos I find less jangling than the spell checker's insistence that an s can only be sugary or slippery, never buzz. How unrealistic, to banish it from 'realise'. Also, sometimes my cat joins in on the keyboard. He never had the benefit of schooling. Cut him some slack.


High Comedy -- and yes, it'd be a shame to banish such creative uses of the English language, as it provides loads of amusement for us to enjoy and share with other 'grammar snobs'. These lost souls are, after all, simply attempting to be assertive. But we all know what happens when one tries to be assertive, right? They make an ass out of Ert and Ive..
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Hammer of Los » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:06 am

A spell-checker would be anathema to me.

Have you noticed that people constantly misuse the phrase; "beg the question?"

I was taught grammar in what was, even at that time, seen as a rather old fashioned and formal manner. I think it did me good.

The people I hear on the radio regularly mangle language to the extent that one is simply left guessing as to what they had intended to convey. Malapropisms, appalling grammatical errors, and the misuse of all manner of figures of speech are a constant recurrence, even on the supposedly high-brow (middle-brow?) R4.

Yes, I am a curmudgeonly old pedant.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:55 am

Belligerent Savant wrote:
But you touch on something else as well: the 'unknown unknown' misspelling, as opposed to the 'known unknown' misspelling. Which is worse?


As it concerns spelling, I think unknown unknowns are worse - but that is sometimes not the fault of the writer (at least not completely.)

My comment about unknown unknowns was more concerning phrases like the 'sink up' thing. To me it looks ridiculous, but I guess if you'd never seen the word sync you might be excused. Also, it kind of behooves listeners or readers to have the courage to correct other fully grown adults for the original criticism to stick, doesn't it? For example, did you correct any of the people who wrote those emails to you? ;)

My spouse's old boss was constantly saying things slightly incorrectly. 'Run the gambit' instead of 'run the gamut' is the only example that comes to mind but there were many. It was really funny in a sad sort of way.

The guy would benefit from being corrected - but would he appreciate it? I doubt it. Is this indicative of the boss's lack of intelligence, or, is it really more a failure of courage in others?

EDIT: I should say that I'm a recovering spelling snob and I'm not so sure that it has served me well. Recently I turned in something that used the word "Effect" instead of "Affect" right in the title. *sigh*.. my standards have gone way down the past five years or so.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:11 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:
Belligerent Savant wrote:
But you touch on something else as well: the 'unknown unknown' misspelling, as opposed to the 'known unknown' misspelling. Which is worse?


As it concerns spelling, I think unknown unknowns are worse - but that is sometimes not the fault of the writer (at least not completely.)

My comment about unknown unknowns was more concerning phrases like the 'sink up' thing. To me it looks ridiculous, but I guess if you'd never seen the word sync you might be excused. Also, it kind of behooves listeners or readers to have the courage to correct other fully grown adults for the original criticism to stick, doesn't it? For example, did you correct any of the people who wrote those emails to you? ;)



Good points [my question was more rhetorical in nature, but certainly a legitimate question to ponder/answer]

"..did you correct any of the people who wrote those emails to you?"

- Yes, when directed at me specifically, I did [though these inidividuals continued to commit similar errors in future emails, making my 'corrections' an exercise in futility -- you can't help those that choose not to help themselves]. I should add that most of the examples provided weren't directed at me specifically; I was often CC'd, and in some cases, the most egregious instances were forwarded to me by others who share my 'distaste' for such grammatical blights.

At least with regards to my examples, what makes them MOST egregious is [what I alluded in an earlier post] that those committing these errors are -- on paper at least, and by title -- considered 'thought leaders' [insipid 'business-speak'] in their respective segments [and most have graduated from 'top-tier' universities]. Of course, their poor use of grammar is surely not their only flaw -- they are paper cut-out sycophants that simply comply with and perpetuate the status quo, which is essentially a microcosm of far grander issues facing this culture of ours. No true leaders, just paper cut-outs propped up to be leaders, following whatever scripts are handed to them.

But now I'm straying into other topics..
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How series can you take threads with misspellings in tit

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:14 am

.

Seems I now painted a big Bulls Eye on my back, huh? My posts will now be meticulously parsed for any error!

Perhaps I should clarify: I don't quite consider myself a "spelling snob" per se -- it all depends on the scenario: the word that is improperly spelled/utilized relative to the person crafting the words and the situation in which he/she is crafting it. Someone that uses English as a second language, or has never been formally 'schooled' in the English language will have more 'wiggle room' than those who are expected to know better or craft words as part of their vocation, etc. Errors happen -- we all make them from to time. [did you catch that one?]
But the fact that many of these errors are not even noticed by the author --- the 'unknown unknown' errors -- that, in my opinion, speaks to a larger issue at play, alluded in prior comments.

Alright, I tire of reading my scrawl.. surely that goes doubly for anyone else
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