Russell Crowe plans Bill Hicks project

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Postby elfismiles » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:19 pm

So it turns out my girlfriend precogd / grokked this idea of Crowe as Hicks ... last night I told her about this idea and she said, "no fucking way - stop giving me shit!"

She then proceeded to remind me of something I'd completely forgotten ... when we went to see DARK KNIGHT and were sitting through the previews, there was a one featuring Crowe and she leans over and whispers in my ears, "Doesn't he look like Bill Hicks there?"

At the time I didn't know who she was talking about. After the movie she related the details to me, saying it was Crowe with glasses and a cigarette.

Hmmmm....

smiles
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Postby professorpan » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:47 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Yes, we all know what Bill Hicks actually said on stage and his great riff on the murder of JFK in Dealey Plaza and his vehement wrath against perception management and we'd like everyone to know about that part of Bill Hicks.

But there are harmful social processes that are exploited by experts when an icon gets the Hollywood treatment which are counter to the icon's values and the way they are socially sustained in the culture at large. This happens despite someone like Russell Crowe's good intentions.

Icons get commodified and diluted and that version gets embedded in more people's minds than the 'best of' mythic view of the icon.

The same Hollywood treatment has been given to other politically dangerous icons-
John Lennon, Che Guevara, Johnny Cash.

The principle exploited is: "Detail is anathema to myth."

The political myth of 'Bill Hicks on JFK' and other of his views which are revered as legendary on the internet will be mnemonically diluted with crap about his personal life and personal foibles etc. even as he becomes more widely known.
There's a cost-benefit dynamic at work that doesn't always work 'for us'' and tends to work 'for them' in ways not realized.

The icon is exploited as a carrier for viral marketing of things that power wants amplified.
The cigarette thing is HUGE politically and this needs to be dialed into the equation.


Just the SIGHT of him with a cigarette like those posted photos will create more smokers and tobacco addiction is an important social control in a number of ways.
Just the psychology of normalizing a toxic lifestyle assists fascist military and corporate agendas in many ways.

Remember Andrew Dice Clay's unnecessary career and Denis Leary ripping off Hicks' material, both while waving their cigarettes around as their 'fuck no-risk pussies' territorial markers?

Tobacco is used as a gateway risk in youth to make military recruiting of them more likely, just as alcohol and petty theft are encouraged, too, for the same reason.
CIA-Hollywood has been subliminally encouraging kids to smoke and drink for this reason, to make them less risk-adverse and vigilant against war and pollution.

I won't go into details but even Elvis movies were used as counterpropaganda for corporate toxic liabilities in the late 1960s because risk-averse psychology is directly related to military recruiting and thus national security. That's the psyops logic, anyway.

This is all complex. But truth-telling icons and politically-aware youth don't come out ahead in a deal with CIA-Hollywood. Just the opposite.

on edit: I just noticed the op article's mention of the Bra Boys film, My Brother's Keeper. I noted in another thread how that ties to General Wesley Clark and his running a US concentration camp for Haitian refugees with toxic consequences. There you go again.


How an RI topic dies:

Original poster: "Hey, this could be an interesting film about (x)."

Second and third posters: "Yes, how about (y). And (z). What do you think of the theme in (zx) or (xz's) performance?

Hugh, seeing a movie title and reaching for his Alex Jones bullhorn: "Psyop. CIA. Fascist. Military recruitment. Perception management. JFK. Meme. Inoculation. Disney. Spielberg. Propaganda manuals. Multiplex. Oh, and have you read my other post about Bra Boys, Wall-E, and General Wesley Clark?"

Hugh's critics: Collective annoyance, snarky jokes, repetitive exhortations to fact-check and/or consider psychological counseling, avoid threadjacking, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Defenders of Hugh: "Stop picking on Hugh, he's on to something, he's a genius, you guys are a bunch of dicks, especially Pan and orz, and why not just ignore him?"

Hugh: "Trolls, disinfo, ignorant, uneducated, ad hominem, I've studied this for years, therefore I know what I'm talking about and you don't. Oh, and by the way, have you seen my post about (discredited) hijacking of (obscure JFK researcher) in the (film name)?"

Original Poster: "Hey, what the hell happened? I was trying to discuss a movie? Why are we now arguing about the reality of 'keyword hijacking?' and whether or not Hugh fits the DSM definition of delusional? Hey, is anyone listening? Can we please talk about the (aesthetics, sociological importance, pop cultural significance, historical relevance) of the movie? Hello? Hello?!?"

THREAD DIES.

Return to top.
"Be wary of perfect matches as dangles. They might be used to lead you somewhere and nest a hidden message. Partial matches (usually last names) are mnemonically good enough for KH and have been standard operating procedure for years." (HMW)
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Postby IanEye » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:18 pm

i'm not sure how many people here enjoyed the movie 'Man In The Moon' about Andy Kaufman.
but if they are going to make a Bill Hicks Movie I would hope that they take a similar approach in terms of having as many people as possible play themselves in the movie.

It was really funny seeing Jeff Conaway in 'Man In The Moon'.

I look forward to Jay Leno's honest take on himself as well.


Bill Hicks pulled me out of a huge depression when those albums came out (posthumously) on Rykodisk in the mid 90's.

I shook off the dead end 'dilbert' persona I found myself inhabiting and got back to a more 'Calvin & Hobbes' state of mind.

A guy at work told me that Ron 'tater salad' White ws the new Bill Hicks.

i told him that if I ever heard him say that again i'd punch him in the fucking throat.

'like a whisp of cotton candy framing a paper cut....'
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Postby elfismiles » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:44 pm

professorpan wrote:How an RI topic dies:

Original poster: "Hey, this could be an interesting film about (x)."

Second and third posters: "Yes, how about (y). And (z). What do you think of the theme in (zx) or (xz's) performance?

Hugh, seeing a movie title and reaching for his Alex Jones bullhorn: "Psyop. CIA. Fascist. Military recruitment. Perception management. JFK. Meme. Inoculation. Disney. Spielberg. Propaganda manuals. Multiplex. Oh, and have you read my other post about Bra Boys, Wall-E, and General Wesley Clark?"

Hugh's critics: Collective annoyance, snarky jokes, repetitive exhortations to fact-check and/or consider psychological counseling, avoid threadjacking, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Defenders of Hugh: "Stop picking on Hugh, he's on to something, he's a genius, you guys are a bunch of dicks, especially Pan and orz, and why not just ignore him?"

Hugh: "Trolls, disinfo, ignorant, uneducated, ad hominem, I've studied this for years, therefore I know what I'm talking about and you don't. Oh, and by the way, have you seen my post about (discredited) hijacking of (obscure JFK researcher) in the (film name)?"

Original Poster: "Hey, what the hell happened? I was trying to discuss a movie? Why are we now arguing about the reality of 'keyword hijacking?' and whether or not Hugh fits the DSM definition of delusional? Hey, is anyone listening? Can we please talk about the (aesthetics, sociological importance, pop cultural significance, historical relevance) of the movie? Hello? Hello?!?"

THREAD DIES.

Return to top.


Except that didn't happen here ... people are still discussing the topic Pan.
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Postby FourthBase » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:52 pm

elfismiles wrote:
professorpan wrote:How an RI topic dies:

Original poster: "Hey, this could be an interesting film about (x)."

Second and third posters: "Yes, how about (y). And (z). What do you think of the theme in (zx) or (xz's) performance?

Hugh, seeing a movie title and reaching for his Alex Jones bullhorn: "Psyop. CIA. Fascist. Military recruitment. Perception management. JFK. Meme. Inoculation. Disney. Spielberg. Propaganda manuals. Multiplex. Oh, and have you read my other post about Bra Boys, Wall-E, and General Wesley Clark?"

Hugh's critics: Collective annoyance, snarky jokes, repetitive exhortations to fact-check and/or consider psychological counseling, avoid threadjacking, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Defenders of Hugh: "Stop picking on Hugh, he's on to something, he's a genius, you guys are a bunch of dicks, especially Pan and orz, and why not just ignore him?"

Hugh: "Trolls, disinfo, ignorant, uneducated, ad hominem, I've studied this for years, therefore I know what I'm talking about and you don't. Oh, and by the way, have you seen my post about (discredited) hijacking of (obscure JFK researcher) in the (film name)?"

Original Poster: "Hey, what the hell happened? I was trying to discuss a movie? Why are we now arguing about the reality of 'keyword hijacking?' and whether or not Hugh fits the DSM definition of delusional? Hey, is anyone listening? Can we please talk about the (aesthetics, sociological importance, pop cultural significance, historical relevance) of the movie? Hello? Hello?!?"

THREAD DIES.

Return to top.


Except that didn't happen here ... people are still discussing the topic Pan.


I wanted to say the same thing, but then I realized I would just be adding to the needless perpetuation of...which, now I've done anyway. Fuck. :wink: On-topic or bust!

So how far are we from, say, cloning a dead celebrity's face from old footage and having them posthumously star in their own biopics? How is Russell freaking Crowe going to pull off Hicks's routine?
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that fills you up and makes you naturally want to do your best.” - Bill Russell
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Postby sunny » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:54 pm

I understand if people think RC is a bad choice for the part; everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I think he is an excellent choice, for a few reasons- 1-He's a terrific actor who makes subtle and unexpected choices in his work.-2-He's got a lot of power in the biz and with his name attached, this could actually get done.-3-He's known for the integrity of his work. Above par scripts are a must for him, and he does his research, especially on true life characters.-4-He's an excellent raconteur, quick on his feet, aggressive in a doesn't-suffer-fools way. He's a good fit for the character.
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Postby professorpan » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:10 pm

Except that didn't happen here ... people are still discussing the topic Pan.


Sorry, perhaps I jumped the gun. There's still time for it to degenerate per my example. Carry on, and I hope I'm wrong.
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Postby FourthBase » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:11 pm

I'm not saying he's a bad choice, given the options.
I just can't imagine him pulling off Hicks's standup well.
Like others have said, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Postby sunny » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:12 pm

4thB wrote:How is Russell freaking Crowe going to pull off Hicks's routine?


He can do it, I promise. :wink:
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Postby professorpan » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:14 pm

Like others have said, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.


I hope for that as well.

Regardless, even if it's a miscast travesty, it will drive a lot of attention to the source material. That's a good thing.
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Postby erosoplier » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:47 pm

FourthBase wrote:
erosoplier wrote:Alt history has a smidgin less chance of saving us than the truth does, so I'll be sticking with the truth, or our/my best approximation of it.


One fucking alt-history movie isn't going to somehow banish every account of the truth, for example we'd always still have the real pictures of a dead MLK and the riots and the brutal legacy since of the perps who killed him and subsequent murders of heroes like him. Do you really not get what I'm saying?


Sure, but you'd think it'd be the simplest fucking thing in the world for the bullshit artists in Hollywood - Hollywood, the cradle of humanity's imagination - to have already done this alt-history shit once or twice in a way that we here might have noticed.

But no, there's as much chance of Hollywood making powerful use of alt-history to improve the world as there is of them not perverting or sanitising or otherwise varnishing the truth of any given true story, in order to comply with the latest propaganda imperatives, or in order to put more bums on seats. ie next to no chance.

[Note, I am not comdemning the genre, or the individuals who work in the industry, I'm condemning the industry as a whole, and will do so as long as it (the industry) does more harm than good, and regardless of the fact that my opinion counts for very little.]

But again, sure I get what you're saying. I'd love to see it done and done well.
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Postby Nordic » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:30 am

Here is why Bill Hicks is dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F7Q7BkAbCk

Re: Barbara Bush.

I don't think you can mess with Barbara Bush in this way and not suffer the consequences.
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Postby Truth4Youth » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:57 am

elfismiles wrote:
sunny wrote:8bit, I think we can predict with some certainty that Rusty will do a better acting job than Alex Jones. :wink: Besides, RC is not entirely unfamiliar with the Austin scene.


Thank you Sunny.

I have no doubt Crowe is a more professional actor.

But have you ever watched an entire episode of Alex's local access tv shows? I watched them for years. I was introduced to the works of Bill Hicks and Alex Jones simultaneously by the same person. From the beginning I saw how Alex channeled Bill, sometimes actually doing bits from his routine. And for a time I thought they really looked alike. Then I began to imagine two different conspiracy theories ...

1 - Bill Hicks faked his own death and became Alex Jones.

2 - Bill Hicks' spirit migrated into (got trapped in limbo inside) Alex Jones' body.

... still I have a hard time imagining Crowe doing Hicks.

smiles


I knew a guy on another messageboard that thought that Jones was actually comedy and then went over-the-edge after Hicks death. Do you think the same?
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Postby elfismiles » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:11 am

Nordic wrote:Here is why Bill Hicks is dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F7Q7BkAbCk

Re: Barbara Bush.

I don't think you can mess with Barbara Bush in this way and not suffer the consequences.


Hilarious ... I'd never heard that bit before.
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Postby elfismiles » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:28 am

Truth4Youth wrote:I knew a guy on another messageboard that thought that Jones was actually comedy and then went over-the-edge after Hicks death. Do you think the same?


No ... nor do I actually believe either of the "conspiracy theories" I mentioned.

Jones is comedy but as a side-effect. And I still respect him for his efforts.
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