So who shot the deputy?

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Postby TheDuke » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:03 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:What was that B-O-B link C2W?

Its not allowed to be played in my country!!!


Fuck yo' country!
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:40 am

Ken Oath

And youtube too.
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Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:10 am

.

Is this the Australian government censorship of the Internet we've been hearing about at work? Has that been implemented yet?
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Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 pm

Dear c2w?

Thank you for focusing me back on the great music of Bob Marley.

At this point I'm gonna have to put the Deputy in cold case. This thread was totally cool, and I meant you speak truth, cos you're saying it as the song said it, regardless of what "the plot" may be (a typically male obsession?).
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Postby Penguin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:39 pm

Yay.
I just did.
Shot im all the way to moon.

Have a nice trip weird fella!
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Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:31 pm

.

No! Research time!

Found some refs to the song on the academic database JSTOR, but most were useless. The most interesting was brief but said the Sheriff is a common metaphor for the West.

But how about this?

http://web.archive.org/web/200512100832 ... gi?sheriff

Bob Marley

"I want to say 'I shot the police' but the government would have made a fuss so I said 'I shot the sheriff' instead... but it's the same idea: justice." Bob, Bunny Wailer and Peter Tosh never blended and complemented each other better than in this timeless testimony of innocence and defiance from the Burnin album. 'If I am guilty I will pay!'. The song also provided Eric Clapton with a number one hit in America, drawing attention to Marley's extraordinary songwriting talents. The versions from Live! and Talkin' Blues were recorded from an extraordinary two night engagement in the summer of 1975 at the Lyceum Ballroom in London; the version on Talkin' Blues is taken from the first of the two concert nights.


Now THIS is irresistible:

http://web.bobmarley.com/news/article.j ... ntid=12468

August 10, 2007
Got burning Marley questions?
By Doug Miller / BobMarley.com
Do you you wonder what the tour posters looked like when Bob and the Wailers first went out on the road? Or who that strange "Mr. Brown" character was in the song of the same name? Are you curious what Rita's favorite song is? Now you can get all your burning questions about the life, music and legacy of Bob Marley and his family answered right here with an email.


It's simple: Just email AskBobMarley.com@website.bobmarley.com, include your first name and hometown or country and the question you'd like to have answered.

Submit questions as often as you like, and every two weeks, Marley family members, friends, contemporaries and experts will reply to the best of the bunch.

There are plenty of unanswered questions about Bob's life and music-and now there's also plenty of time to get them answered when you "Ask BobMarley.com."


I can't find a section with any answers to questions, so I don't know if this will work, but of course I will write to them!!
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:08 pm

JackRiddler wrote:.

Is this the Australian government censorship of the Internet we've been hearing about at work? Has that been implemented yet?


I don't think so.

I'm still thinking that ain't gonna work, from the sound of it its a disaster waiting to happen.
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Postby TheDuke » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:09 am

I just had the best five days back in Sydney....I was surprised I was feeling sad leaving the place. Maybe it was anomalous but everyone was so damn happy and polite. The weather was hot but that wouldn't explain it.

I think all in all we are not such a bad bunch Joe

As long as you stay away from tv, newspapers, talkback and politics.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:17 am

And stay away from Sydney today, 32 C before 9 Oclock this morning, over 40 most places all day...

I've noticed people being more polite in general round here.

Maybe its just too hot to do aything else.
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Postby JackRiddler » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:59 am

.

My fan mail!

Dear AskBobMarley.com,

Great site! Thank you for offering it. I am listening to the songs right now.

You offer to answer questions about Bob Marley or the songs. I hope you're still doing so, because some of us on the Web have been debating who shot the deputy in the song, "I Shot the Sheriff." After all, the narrator says he didn't shoot the deputy, but somebody did, so who?

You can read our debate about it here:

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... sc&start=0

So, is there an answer? Does it matter?

Thanks again.

Yours Truly,

Nicholas
New York City
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Postby teamdaemon » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:59 pm

Maybe the deputy was about to come clean about the whole drug trafficking business.

:leprechaun:
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too much watchy-watchy-wa

Postby compared2what? » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:07 pm

teamdaemon wrote:Maybe the deputy was about to come clean about the whole drug trafficking business.

:leprechaun:


Interesting. Because if he was gonna expose the part about how a little racist bad-copping propaganda about what goes on down in Shantytown is all the cover the traffickers really need to operate with near-total impunity, that would definitely explain why the singer wouldn't have dreamed of shooting him.

Although as usual when it comes to this stuff, the field of potential unidentified perps would be so fully pre-seeded with disinfo-srepading spooks and paid informants, under that theory of the crime, it would be almost impossible to ever bring the top dog in the deputy-shooting case to justice for the crime.

That's no reason not to try, though. In any event, you've got my vote.
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Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:46 pm

(I shot the sheriff
But I didnt shoot no deputy, oh no! oh!
I shot the sheriff
But I didnt shoot no deputy, ooh, ooh, oo-ooh.)
Yeah! all around in my home town,
Theyre tryin to track me down;
They say they want to bring me in guilty
For the killing of a deputy,
For the life of a deputy.
But I say:

Oh, now, now. oh!
(I shot the sheriff.) - the sheriff.
(but I swear it was in selfdefence.)
Oh, no! (ooh, ooh, oo-oh) yeah!
I say: I shot the sheriff - oh, lord! -
(and they say it is a capital offence.)
Yeah! (ooh, ooh, oo-oh) yeah!

Sheriff john brown always hated me,
For what, I dont know:
Every time I plant a seed,
He said kill it before it grow -
He said kill them before they grow.
And so:

Read it in the news:
(I shot the sheriff.) oh, lord!
(but I swear it was in self-defence.)
Where was the deputy? (oo-oo-oh)
I say: I shot the sheriff,
But I swear it was in selfdefence. (oo-oh) yeah!

Freedom came my way one day
And I started out of town, yeah!
All of a sudden I saw sheriff john brown
Aiming to shoot me down,
So I shot - I shot - I shot him down and I say:
If I am guilty I will pay.

(I shot the sheriff,)
But I say (but I didnt shoot no deputy),
I didnt shoot no deputy (oh, no-oh), oh no!
(I shot the sheriff.) i did!
But I didnt shoot no deputy. oh! (oo-oo-ooh)

Reflexes had got the better of me
And what is to be must be:
Every day the bucket a-go a well,
One day the bottom a-go drop out,
One day the bottom a-go drop out.
I say:

I - I - I - I shot the sheriff.
Lord, I didnt shot the deputy. yeah!
I - I (shot the sheriff) -
But I didnt shoot no deputy, yeah! no, yeah!

I'm reposting the lyrics here for the sake of convenience. I've given this question of deputy shooting some thought and have a few questions/observations.

Timeline:

*Sheriff John Brown and Nattie have a past. I get the impression from the phrase, "...always hated me", that Nattie has known the Sheriff since he was a kid.

*Nattie is imprisoned for an unknown offense.

*Freedom comes Nattie's way one day (escapes? Maybe the deputy was shot by a fellow prisoner during the escape?)

*deputy shooting?

*On the way out of town the sheriff ambushes/confronts Nattie with a weapon drawn and aimed at him. (Why? If Nattie gained his freedom legitimately by serving his time then why is the sheriff confronting him with deadly force? Just plain Malice? And why is Nattie leaving town? Following the wild west motif one might argue that the sheriff told Nattie to get out of town. But why then does the sheriff stop him? Maybe because he blames Nattie, seeing as he hates him, for the killing of the deputy if in fact the deputy was shot during the escape?)

*Nattie's reflexes get the better of him and he shoots the sheriff down. (It's never made clear that the sheriff is actually killed, only that Nattie shot, he shot him down. Where did Nattie get the gun if he had just gotten out of jail? The guy immediately arms himself?)

*Deputy shooting?

*A manhunt ensues all around Nattie's home town. Nattie goes on the lam. It being his home town he is able to get news of the manhunt underway and has lots of places to hide.

Yeah! all around in my home town,
Theyre tryin to track me down;
They say they want to bring me in guilty


*Nattie stays on the lam at least long enough for an edition of a paper to run the story of the sheriff shooting, although it's not perfectly clear what he reads in the news. Whether sheriff shooting, deputy shooting or both. Read it in the news:

* For all we know Nattie is still on the run.


If we are taking Nattie at his word, then even Nattie with his connections cannot figure out when the deputy was shot or he would have told us. The timeline can be fairly well deduced from the lyrics except for when the deputy was shot. This does not preclude the escape theory though, because it is possible that in the confusion of the escape Nattie was not near the actual killing of the deputy and did not see it or know about it.

Nattie believes that jah will hold him blameless for the shooting of the sheriff as it was an act of self defense. It is not reasonable to believe that Nattie would expect such a defense to hold up in court since sheriff shooting is serious business and there were apparently no witnesses to their gun play. Even if Nattie gained his freedom by way of a fellow prisoner killing a deputy during an escape I believe Nattie would still expect JAH to forgive his sheriff shooting on the grounds of self defense despite the fact that the sheriff had reason to believe that Nattie might have killed the deputy during the escape and might therefore have been armed and dangerous. All Nattie knew was that the sheriff hated him and looked like he was about to kill him. There really is no more righteous reason to kill another human being besides self defense or defense of others. If one does not have the legal right to prevent another human being from unjustly killing them then what does one have a right to?


Wikipedia wrote:Legal Status of Self-Defense

In most jurisdictions, defense of self or of others is an affirmative defense to criminal charges for an act of violence. It acts to provide complete justification when the degree of violence used is comparable or proportionate to the threat faced, so deadly force would only be excused in situations of "extreme" danger. The defense would fail if a defendant deliberately killed a petty thief who did not appear to be a physical threat. Likewise, when an assailant ceases to be a threat (e.g. by being tackled and restrained, surrendering, or fleeing), the defense will fail if the defending party presses on to attack. A somewhat less obvious application of this rule is that admitting the use of deadly force in an attempt to disable rather than kill the assailant can be construed as evidence that the defendant wasn't yet in enough danger to justify lethal force in the first place. Sometimes there is a duty to retreat which makes the defense problematic when applied to abusive relationships (see battered woman syndrome and abuse defense), and in burglary situations given the so-called castle exception (see: Edward Coke) which argues that one cannot be expected to retreat from one's own home, namely, "a man's house is his castle, et domus sua cuique est tutissimum refugium" i.e. Latin for "and one's home is the safest refuge"). However, if one is "challenged" in a bar for a fight, accepting such challenge, instead of walking away, generally will not constitute a self defense.

In some countries and U.S. states, the concept of "pre-emptive" self defense is limited by a requirement that the threat be imminent. Thus, lawful "pre-emptive" self defense is simply the act of landing the first-blow in a situation that has reached a point of no hope for de-escalation or escape. Many self-defense instructors and experts believe that if the situation is so clear-cut as to feel certain violence is unavoidable, the defender has a much better chance of surviving by landing the first blow (sucker punch) and gaining the immediate upper hand to quickly stop the risk to their person.

Justification for self-defense usually cannot be applied to actions committed after a criminal act has taken place. A rape victim who, after the rape is committed and the rapist leaves, subsequently finds and shoots her rapist, is not entitled to claim self-defense. Most other victims of assaultive offenses are similarly not entitled to this defense if they act in revenge. In all but one U.S. jurisdiction, using deadly force against a robber or burglar who is attempting to escape with property is likewise not justifiable (Texas is the only exception and holds the defendant to a high burden of proof that the action was the only means available to recover the property without a serious risk of death or serious injury).


The whole article is pretty interesting as wiki articles go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense

On Edit:

Don't be reluctant to rip this to shreds and call me an idiot in order to spare my feelings or any such nonsense.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Postby brainpanhandler » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:45 am

Freedom came my way one day
And I started out of town, yeah!



Like the whole of the song the above might mean a great many things. For instance, it's conceivable that Nattie had an epiphany of some sort and it is his mind that has been freed. We might even reasonably conjecture that what Nattie's epiphany was is hinted at when his first inclination is to leave town, town being civilization, aka babylon. For now I want to consider the more straightforward interpretation though, that being that Nattie was physically incarcerated and then not.

There are a couple of things we can deduce about Nattie from the way Bob chose to word the above quoted.

- Nattie did not do anything to bring about his freedom. He was a passive recipient. Freedom simply came his way.

- Nattie did not expect that freedom was coming his way. For instance, if Nattie was counting down the days to the end of his sentence, as I would imagine the vast majority of prisoners with some hope of getting out alive do, then you would not expect him to phrase a description of his release as he does. You might argue that Nattie does so as a snub to babylon, as in Nattie does not want to acknowledge that freedom was granted to him, but rather that freedom and Nattie, two natural buddies, simply rejoined. For my purposes though I think the more straightforward interpretation is that Nattie did not anticipate that freedom was coming his way when it did.


There are a number of plausible scenarios that would explain these two deductions. One might be that Nattie was exonerated while in custody through no effort on his part and unbeknownst to him until his actual release. Unless Nattie was being held in solitary, one would expect that he had visitation rights as well as access to counsel, both of which would keep him apprised of any ongoing efforts to secure his freedom. That seems an overly complicated interpretation. A simpler explanation, at least to my mind which generally prefers simplicity as being in consonance which it's nature, is that Nattie escaped by virtue of the escape of fellow prisoners, the plans of which he was completely unaware.

If Nattie was imprisoned and he escaped, then that might also explain how and why he immediately armed himself and why he immediately started out of town and why the sheriff waylaid him at gunpoint.

Am I making any sense?
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Postby JackRiddler » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:31 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:
Freedom came my way one day
And I started out of town, yeah!


(SNIP)

Am I making any sense?


Absolutely. Lots of sense. I like freedom comes his way as a simple release from prison, rather than an escape, but either-or: You are illustrating the inherently unlimited number of interpretative variations on the possible events (as opposed to the deeper and meta meanings of the song, which c2w? has covered most compellingly).

Like, here's another one:

The deputy was shot years ago. Nattie was wrongly imprisoned for the crime. Freedom came his way. The Sheriff too, on the same day, and perforce Nattie shot him down. Now everyone figures he's a compulsive serial killer of Babylonian polices. But no, he never shot no deputy! And JAH knows it, which is all that's going to matter in the end.

Well, that's *definitely* not the answer, but you see? We can do this forever.

.
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