Welcome to... The Saloon

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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:49 pm

American Dream » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:39 pm wrote:I'm all for the abolition of the Artist! I do feel that doing away with the alienated social role of "the Artist" would turn things upside down. We might all have to be artists or something. Which I'm good with.


Yeah, I thought you might like that one!

chump, next round is on me.

peartreed, you twist my words to suit your preconceived notions.

Last year, I took care of my grandmother until she passed away. I was there for her until the moment she took her last breath. Death in the middle of life is reality, not this fantasy society age game you're playing at my expense. This is Rigorous Intuition, everyone knows better.

I've lived a pretty crazy life, so far. Done and seen things you couldn't imagine in your darkest most frightening dreams. I was intimately acquainted with horror and the unknown while you were still in college. I'm still alive by sheer, dumb luck. I have nothing to teach you, simply because you don't want to learn.

Only seven posts left! Better make them count.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:13 pm

I wasn't twisting your words, dada, I was sharing my own as another voice in this noisy saloon.

Like yourself, I've held a loved one passing. No words nor assumptions from someone not there feeling it can comprehend.

In your seven remaining posts try some listening, empathy and sincere interest in others without taking claim of their voices too.

Preoccupied self-absorption tends to be off-putting, like monologues and megalomania and mean dismissals of others' meaning.

It's not all about you. It's a discussion forum. It's conversation and sharing. It's the joy of variety and uniqueness in our views.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:27 pm

You forget that this is a saloon thread. I'm doing what people do when they're sitting at the bar.

You don't get me, I get it. My words scare you, they upset your applecart. Well, maybe your applecart could use some upsetting! haha

You did twist my words, go re-read what you wrote, inspired by my posts. And to top it off, you call my bar talk, what, off-putting megalomania?. You should probably quit while you're ahead.

But explain me away, if it makes you feel any better. You're not the only one reading my posts. There are others here who appreciate what I bring to the table. For the next six posts.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:47 am

If you're drinking, that might explain your first point.

Your second point assumes your words scare me. Hardly. The last time a dada scared me was when I was a baby, playing peek-a-boo.

My apple cart is upright and, actually, full of pears from my tree.

Thanks for admitting it was just bar talk. Have another. Your view of me and others remains out of focus.

If you're still at the bar I suggest you bring some food to the table, sobering nourishment, to go with your bar mirror self-reflection.

That's now a countdown of five. The same number of close family relatives I held in my arms until they passed. Enjoy your departure.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:27 am

Well I guess you showed me. Although I've been called way worse, and have contended with way more displaced frustration and negativity directed in my general direction. I'm sure you could do better. I don't drink, actually. So there's something else you can work with. Try to come up with a real zinger.

Or better yet, just say you're sorry and back the fuck off. Maybe hold off on the "you're sorely mistaken, sir, my words aren't full of nastiness and venom, my shit don't stink" act for a while, allow me to post my five posts without your passive aggressive sniping and disruptive nonsense.Then you can have the board without me around to harsh your delicate vibrations.

edited to add: One other thing. I brought up my grandmother not to get into a morbidity contest with you, but to make a point. Reality and the social fictions we tell ourselves and cling to are two different things. You know this if you've been present when someone crosses over.
Last edited by dada on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:46 am

Your antagonism about my original post was similarly your own imaginative reading of a tone and intent I didn't have. Try rereading it as conversational, light, sharing of ideas about the outlook you introduced but where mine, as a different individual, differed as would anyones.

I stooped to your level of sniping because you've shown that is also how you project yourself when misreading the words of others and, again. imagining who they are and their motives. None of which you were correct about. Like I said, get over yourself, invite others to table and try to be nice.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:15 am

Now you're just being silly. Just give it a rest. You were uncomfortable with the things I was posting. (I guess if I copy and pasted long selections of other people's words from somewhere else, they would be acceptable!) You were being passive aggressive.

Then you were insulting, or trying to be. As if being a self-absorbed megalomaniac is some kind of bad thing. Call me dada, call me George, call me Duncan, whatever. But don't you dare call me a self-absorbed megalomaniac! haha

But even though it wasn't very insulting, you certainly were trying to be, your words were full of nastiness and venom. Your shit does stink, believe it or not.

Basically, you have a bad attitude. Just apologize. It's in order here.

I'll tell you now, though, I won't be responding to your next post. I'm not wasting any more on you. So if you're going to stoop and blame it on me again, be my guest. Have at me, give it your best shot.

(I should also warn you, in case you were thinking you might bait me into using up my allotted posts: I could just keep posting indefinitely, my rules are not set in stone. I mean, I make them, of course I can change them)

edited to add: upon reflection I feel that a few things deserve further clarification.

Lucid dreaming and the unknown are experiences that many (me included) are drawn to from a very young age, and have pursued all our lives. I suspect many on this board share this lifelong pursuit. Sweeping them up in a pop-psychology generalization is an attempt to reduce, belittle and dismiss these experiences. It isn't in the spirit of the Rigorous Intuition that I know. To do this specifically in relation to the content of someone's earlier posts, is what I am calling passive aggressive.

Horror is also something many are drawn to from an early age. For me it's a different subject than lucid dreaming or experience of the unknown. Horror has always been more of a hobby.

My current bad horror movie kick is because I'm interested in making low budget films. Already blew a bunch of dough on lights and sound equipment. Most important is good sound. Next is good lighting. So I'm not watching bad horror films for the horror, I'm watching them as a filmmaker. Paying attention to locations, camera angles, special effects, picking up tricks here and there. Again, to build a horror strawman and pop-psychologize it, in relation to the content of someone's earlier posts, is what I am calling passive aggressive. It also happens to be totally missing the mark.

Finally, I wonder, on a planet with six billion people living on it, is it of any value to make any sweeping generalizations about lucid dreaming, horror, or the experience of the unknown. I don't think so. Unless the reason is passive aggression, in relation to someone's earlier posts.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:55 pm

Yet again your fundamental premise about my original post was completely off the mark. If you read it again you'll notice you are not mentioned in it. That's because it's not all about you. I was writing about a life philosophy as a thread subject without personal pronouns or names of others in the conversation. In fact, I wasn't thinking about you, personally, at all as I wrote it.

Your defensiveness and prejudgment and a sensitivity bordering mild paranoia are all some interpretive things you need to work on. Like I mentioned earlier and on other threads about discussion and rhetoric, try reading others words in a calm, conversational, friendly voice as objective yet subjective comment. You also seriously need to reactivate your sense of humour and objectivity while reading exchanges.

As to the above explanations of your interests, we have more in common than you'd ever imagine or want to find in me as your enemy.

The reason I mentioned lucid, dreaming, the unconscious and horror films is due to my hobbies, starting in my late teens exploring psychic phenomena first hand, even as "ghostbuster" investigator before the movie. My grandfather, who I had watched die, was a Spiritualist minister whose life went from WW1 Thompson machinegunner killer in the trenches to a lifelong pacifist clergyman communing with spirit. While our beliefs differed, he inspired me to explore the unknown as a lifelong avocation.

Also, much later as another hobby, I was an ExecSysop on CompuServe running the New Age and Ufology forums based on that research. This was done outside my career as an airline executive where I also traveled the world for free and explored my hobbies in many countries. My second career was years spent in the film industry, as a performer, crew member and ultimately a union president elected for several terms to represent thousands of fellow workers. I'm a life member of the Writers Guild and still active in The Actors Guild.

My point is that film-making also dominated my interests from several fields.

What you have pejoratively and defensively read as my passive aggressive pop psychology and straw man needling of your precious personal perspective was, as I've stated, nothing to do with you personally. Your interpretation of it is your psyche problem, not mine. Your assumption that I was in college while you pursued your passions is laughable too. When I was in college I would guess you were in diapers. My 15-year airline career and 20-year film industry career followed my 17 years of formal education. You do the math.

As to witnessing death up close, I was with both grandparents, each of my parents and a younger brother as they died - each telling me of what they were experiencing in their last moments with loving candor and wonder. It was a culmination of grief, curiosity and love of them.

So, this boring but brief snippet of my autobiography hopefully indicates that, had you been civil, empathetic and less defensive instead of judgmental and accusatory, we might have found some common ground for an actual, mutually informative, stimulating discussion on an actual discussion board lounge.

But I'll defer to the biblical days of old bearded men seeking divine comfort but egocentrically arguing in the commons and riding donkeys. If you decide to leave in prickling outrage and personal offense at my daring to try to engage in conversation about personal passions, allow me to hand you your ass at the door.

Cheers, duh-duh
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:22 pm

meh, I shrug. It's totally fine. Water under the bridge. Another day, I'm already a million miles away.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have no interest in being friends with someone who pulls this, in my opinion - of course, of course - passive aggressive gaslighting nonsnense and then can't apologize when called out on it, no matter how much we have in common.

If you don't enjoy my posts, what can I say. You can't please everyone. Perhaps we'll get along in the future. I've had knock down drag out arguments here before with people I get along with just fine now. For now, go bother someone else. Thanks.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby elfismiles » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:37 pm

Alrightchy'all ... don't make me hafta git on y'as bout arguin in da saloon...

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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby minime » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:08 pm

Three times Ha!

" 'Keep, some of that 'Altered States' blend you got on the top shelf!"
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:18 pm

More like 'Altered Minds' bottom shelf where the Brit twits dwell.

Much like responding to a conversational gambit in a saloon or pub, a commentator is best advised to know his audience first, before launching accusatory antagonism. It's like a battle of words where you first check your vocabulary, or a battle of wits where you first have to inventory your own resources. Similarly, producing a successful horror show should first be an analysis of the potential audience for your fiction to seem real, and at least temporarily believable, to suspend disbelief and buy into the vicarious adventure.

I learned to do my homework for verisimilitude on The X Files. That took genuine study, understanding and empathy for the viewers, as well as years studying the subject matter, before writing or producing or performing the premise and plot for its viewers. Isolation doesn't cut it. Nor does the rejection of informed advice from experienced people based on a fragile ego.

A producer has to be less craven to be a Wes Craven!
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:46 pm

One thing I'll say about Rigorous Intuition, the Saloon is still a real wild west joint, worth the journey. All the other internet saloons are those 'star wars' and 'clockwork orange' themed corporate chains, now. And they always water down the altered states spirits.

Here, you still might see a real, actual alien, or a real cowboy getting knocked through the swinging doors into the horse trough. And there's even the original animatronic piano player over there in the corner.

No hologram bartenders, either. That's refreshing. I went to some backwater internet bar last week, they had a Frank Zappa hologram bartender. Everyone was asking him his political opinions, on Syria and stuff. So silly. As if he would have the same opinions as a non-hologram Frank.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby dada » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 pm

Still not fighting with me, I see, peartreed. Very well.

I'm not interested in escapism. I like bad horror movies, with bad acting, bad effects, bad everything. Not going for suspension of disbelief. As I've said somewhere around here before, I like to see the seams, and no stain of sleek overproduction.

edited to add: You know, though, I asked you nicely to leave me alone. I'll ask you again, nicely, again. Leave me alone. You're trolling me, now. Stop it, please.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Welcome to... The Saloon

Postby peartreed » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:29 pm

You'll note my last reply was to minime, not you. It's not always all about you. At least not in the world the rest of us occupy. What threads through a discussion thread is the subject matter, not the self-conscious imagined subject of the discussion. And that subject matter is shared, at least in civil discussion and conversation. It is only interpreted as personal all the time by the self-absorbed.

Imagine a president who is blameless, but blames everyone and anyone else for their faults and misjudgments and insulting diatribes. "It's a witch hunt!" "It's a disgrace!" "I'm owed an apology!"

And imagine someone who announces the schedule of their agenda and departure as a commitment to themselves, then changes it on whim. Certainly a human entitlement, but how credible and trustworthy would their further commitments, comments and causes be?

If you don't want my responses, stop replying to my every post - even the ones not answering you.
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