Hobbit!

[Project Willow]

I was going to put this in the To What Are You Looking Forward thread, but what the heck, there might be some Ringers here.

I had not known they were doing it in two parts. Hmmm.

Jackson has a bunch of production videos on his youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/pjacksonwingnutfilms?feature=watch

[Jeff]

Thanks for posting that vlog, I hadn't seen it. I've seen all the others, and most of them multiple times.

I read The Hobbit and LOTR for the first time when I was 13, and every ten years or so I get the Tolkien itch again. (Though I've read The Silmarillion just once, and only this year.) The boxed-set extended DVD gets frequent play. If not the whole thing, then favourite scenes while I'm sorting laundry. (Gandalf's return always chokes me up. And the lighting of the beacons. And just about anything with Theoden.) So naturally I'm looking forward to The Hobbit. And maybe most looking forward to seeing Radagast.

And hurray for Peter Jackson. Tolkien would have been a disaster in lesser hands, or in the skilled hands of someone with a contrary vision.

[Hammer of Los]

...

Radagast?

The Brown?!

He doesn't make an appearance in The Hobbit!

Fie on Jackson!

He plays too fast and loose with the dialogue and adds hours of totally unnecessary action sequences.

But what about the blue wizards?

There were two, you know. Brothers they were.

Their names are almost forgotten in middle earth.

Perhaps one day they will be remembered;

They are two of the five Wizards (or Istari) sent by the Valar to Middle-earth to aid in the struggle against Sauron. They are called the Blue Wizards on account of their sea-blue robes (each of the other Istari had robes of a different colour), and their individual names are given in the Unfinished Tales as Alatar and Pallando. They were both sent to the distant east of Middle-earth, and therefore played no role in the events of the west of Middle-earth, as described in The Lord of the Rings. Consequently, little is known about them.

Alatar am I?

Close enough!

I recall the dwarves of yore;

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells
While Hammers fell like ringing Bells.

Yet am I half-elven.

...

[Jeff]

...

Radagast?

The Brown?!

He doesn't make an appearance in The Hobbit!

Fie on Jackson!

Quite so. But Jackson is also mining the LOTR's appendices for material that's relevant to The Hobbit, so I think it's fair. Especially since Radagast really at least should have been mentioned in the LOTR films.

[Elvis]

---

Tolkien gave us a tremendous gift. When I was a teenager, I named a new cat Gorbadoc -- taken from the family trees in the back of one the books. "Gorby" for short; this was years before anyone heard of Gorbachev.

I've only seen the Two Towers, I really must get my hands on the others and take time to watch them. I agree that Jackson did a stunning, bangup job so far. My one qualm: skinny teenagers as hobbits? I got over that easily, and Bilbo looks more like my idea of a hobbit.

[justdrew]

one main area that's a possibility of expansion, is covering the events around driving "the necromancer" out of mirkwood. This all happened "off camera" in the books, but it's a major area for possible growth. It would probably be kinda cheesy to graft on at this point though, it could conceivably be of some interest. I think that's been covered in some of the PC games that came out and in LotRO (an mmo). Really though, I prefer to just stick to the books as written.

Jackson is also talking about converting the Hobbit into a trilogy if the studio let's him shoot a little more.

[Laodicean]

...

Radagast?

The Brown?!

He doesn't make an appearance in The Hobbit!

Fie on Jackson!

Quite so. But Jackson is also mining the LOTR's appendices for material that's relevant to The Hobbit, so I think it's fair. Especially since Radagast really at least should have been mentioned in the LOTR films.

"Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside.."

"Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None have ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster."

I remember being really disappointed that Bombadil was not included in Fellowship or even mentioned at all in the trilogy. He's my favorite character and the most mysterious.

[semper occultus]

.
And hurray for Peter Jackson. Tolkien would have been a disaster in lesser hands, or in the skilled hands of someone with a contrary vision.

...Fie on Jackson!

He plays too fast and loose with the dialogue and adds hours of totally unnecessary action sequences.

I totally agree....with both of you...
had it not already conveniently been minted the phrase sublime to the ridiculous would have had to be invented to cover the almost miraculous artistic vision & beautiful craftsmanship behind the production design vs some of the unutterable egregiosity occurring with the source material & dialogue

forgiveness can not easily be bestowed upon those that throw away this & yet find space for dwarf-tossing "jokes"....

“In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dínen.
"You cannot enter here," said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. "Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!"
The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
"Old fool!" he said. "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of war nor of wizardry, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns, in dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the north wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.”

.... ( & not really mollified at all by Peter Jackson "improved" version on the DVD )...( nor by the thought that the whole enterprise has made Jackson immeasurably richer than it ever did JRRT himself !

Really though, I prefer to just stick to the books as written.

Jackson is also talking about converting the Hobbit into a trilogy if the studio let's him shoot a little more.

[/quote]

on LoTR I'd agree - although dare I say it....his tweaked-up version of the Mines of Moria probably made better cinema than the book version.... I really can't get quite so .......precious......over the juvenilia of the Hobbit as long as the additions are canonical Tolkien... there's plenty of it to work with...& that's before you start getting into all the alternative versions of the same stories....

shame that this is this property that get's milked when there was easily 3 x 3 hour films worth of the greatest work of fantasy written in the last millenium in the Return of the King - that is never going to get another chance to be re-made in our lifetime...........presumably ?)

[Jeff]

one main area that's a possibility of expansion, is covering the events around driving "the necromancer" out of mirkwood. This all happened "off camera" in the books, but it's a major area for possible growth.

Yes, that's definitely happening. Though I'm not certain what form it will take or how it will pay off. But Jackson shot scenes of Gandalf at Dol Guldur, and finding Thrain in the dungeon.

I remember being really disappointed that Bombadil was not included in Fellowship or even mentioned at all in the trilogy. He's my favorite character and the most mysterious.

There could have been a good half-hour there, in the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs. At least for the extended cut. I don't know if Bombadil has made it into any adaptation.

& yet find space for dwarf-tossing "jokes"

Can't argue with that. And:

shame that this is this property that get's milked when there was easily 3 x 3 hour films worth of the greatest work of fantasy written in the last millenium in the Return of the King - that is never going to get another chance to be re-made in our lifetime

The worst offense, IMO, was the bed-jumping reunion of the fellowship. The source material from "The Field of Cormallen" is so much richer. (Sam: "Is everything sad going to come untrue?")

Still, it could have been so much worse. Jackson's original concept for the Battle of the Black Gate - he even shot it - was for a Sauron and Aragorn sword fight, and for Sauron to first show himself in his "fair form" of Annatar, which of course had been unavailable to him since the Fall of Numenor. (Oy, the crap I know....)

[Hammer of Los]

...

Semper, you da man.

Jackson's original concept for the Battle of the Black Gate - he even shot it - was for a Sauron and Aragorn sword fight.

You've got to be fu**in' kiddin' me.

On the production design, yes, the films produced a lot of nice still photography.

And some of the casting decisions were reasonably successful.

Yes, I'm damning it with faint praise.

Surely I'm allowed to do that.

I am a servant of the secret fire, after all.

Oh, oh Bombadil, yes.

He is the spirit of the good earth beneath our feet.

Inscrutable to mortal mind is he.

Oldest and longest lived is he.

The affairs of men and yes, even elves, mean little to him.

...

[sw]

I also love the Lord of the Rings movies and books.

I have been re watching the extended versions this week and for the first time, watched the Return of the King Extended version listening to the Writers talk about the film instead of hearing the movie dialogue. I found it really interesting.

Jackson talked about his sorrow for not being able to put many of the scene mentioned here, in the movies. I would love to see what he put on the cutting room floor like the scene he shot of Legolas talking to treebeard, the scenes in the Rivendell Library and all the scenes that were cut showing what happend to Gimli and Legolas later in life.

They also talked about how many people hated different scenes like the bed jumping scene and how others loved it. He said he tried to do his best. Each time I watch the movies, I am deeply moved by the music and the way they captured all of it.

The movies capture how I feel about so many things in life. The lighting of the beacons brings me to tears every time. So does the scene where Frodo and Sam are on the side of the volcano and Frodo can't recall the taste of water or the shire. The sheer weight of what he carries is captured so well.

I've also always seen the fellowship journey as an analogy for DID. The concept of Frodo being able to carry great evil without becoming evil himself. That is something I have struggled with. I did not want to become that evil.

[barracuda]

I found Jackson's portrayal of the Ents particularly wooden.

[semper occultus]

^

....are you trolling this thread....?

I've also always seen the fellowship journey as an analogy for DID. The concept of Frodo being able to carry great evil without becoming evil himself. That is something I have struggled with. I did not want to become that evil.

Jackson's original concept for the Battle of the Black Gate - he even shot it - was for a Sauron and Aragorn sword fight, and for Sauron to first show himself in his "fair form" of Annatar, which of course had been unavailable to him since the Fall of Numenor. (Oy, the crap I know....)

...what the Udûn was he thinking.....& then there was going to be Arwen..kicking-ass ( I believe the term is )...at Helm's Deep against fully fledged beserker Uruk-Hai...

yes we were spared much

[Project Willow]

Jeff, you and I read the books around the same time.

I agree about Bombadil. That was somewhat heart breaking.

^
yes we were spared much

I wonder if fan pressure had anything to do with that. I know Jackson paid some attention to the debate on fan sites over story line changes. I was an active member of theonering.net at the time. It's funny, I can hardly remember the trivia, although I was completely conversant in it back then, but that's my sieve of a brain at work. I'd have to briefly review the books again to refresh my memory, or perhaps bring those parts forward.

SW, well said, and me too.

People often debate what condition Gollum may have, but it is obviously DID.

[Jeff]

I wonder if fan pressure had anything to do with that. I know Jackson paid some attention to the debate on fan sites over story line changes.

At the end of, at least, ROTK's extended DVD, there's a lengthy "fan credit" scroll. I don't know the genesis of that, but I thought it was a nice gesture. Even though he's made compromises to make his films, he still appears to genuinely respect the source material and its readers.