The emergence of spirituality, no con

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The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby slimmouse » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:49 pm

What better place to discuss some serious business than in the lounge, which is traditionally a place where people tend to relax more, and consequently express themselves more openly.

Spirituality is often confused with religion, but its fair to say that everyone has spirit of some kind or other be it simply in human or subsequent form, whereas not everyone has a religion of any kind. This thread is for everyone.

So Im hoping that through your physical spirit you will express your thoughts on the true nature and purpose of our existence.

My own personal belieif inclines very much towards a much bigger picture, in which we are all involved, both individually and collectively. Collectively in the sense that we are each a component of the whole.

Earth and human form is a real school of hard knocks, and we're here to play aoound with the multiple challenges that this poses us,

The ultimate prize is to add something new to the emotionally driven intelligence of the divine source in its infinite forms, from which we spark, but other winners include those who register a signal that they are at least giving it their best shot.

If any of us dont rise to such a challenge in this particular life in this particular form, then for as long as we choose to play, we get another shot, only next time we are fortified with all the experience of our previous existence.

For those of us who do achieve the seemingly impossible meanwhle, or at least have registered their signal, the choices start to get more interesting.

The good news is their are no external judges or judgement.

Or is that quite the good news that it sounds, when we fully understand the implications of this?

Enough of me.

C-mon team, whats it all about. I'll certainly be listening to y'all.
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby coffin_dodger » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:56 pm

slim, I started composing a reply to this thread earlier tonight but I just can't finish it, I've got a feeling it's going to be quite long and I'm dog tired and feeling a bit too burnt out to finish it. I only saw this thread a few hours ago and I would have kicked in with my proverbial 2 cents worth a lot earlier, had I seen it.

edited for removing one instance of 'earlier' too many
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby DrEvil » Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:56 pm

Oh what the heck, I'll give it a shot.

We are the emergent properties of the interplay and evolution of ultimately very simple systems.
I see our tools and technology as an extension of that paradigm, and as a consequence, just as natural as a blade of grass or an insect, only more complex, and approaching a higher level of complexity than us. We should try to keep up and enjoy the ride. :partyhat

Also, I don't personally think there is any reason or purpose for us being here, other than to spite entropy for a (relatively speaking) nanosecond. We live, we die. The End.

That's my opinion, anyway. :basicsmile
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby slimmouse » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:32 am

DrEvil » 24 Jun 2013 00:56 wrote:Oh what the heck, I'll give it a shot.

We are the emergent properties of the interplay and evolution of ultimately very simple systems.
I see our tools and technology as an extension of that paradigm, and as a consequence, just as natural as a blade of grass or an insect, only more complex, and approaching a higher level of complexity than us. We should try to keep up and enjoy the ride. :partyhat

Also, I don't personally think there is any reason or purpose for us being here, other than to spite entropy for a (relatively speaking) nanosecond. We live, we die. The End.

That's my opinion, anyway. :basicsmile


And thanks for it Doc. Im always interested in a scientifically driven Atheistic opinion, from the point of the nano second prior to the big bang.

Assuming I have your opinion roughly speaking in an accurate framework ( if not, please elaborate)

The effects of the big bang are clear. Whats your perspective on the cause?
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:19 am

DrEvil wrote:I see our tools and technology as an extension of that paradigm, and as a consequence, just as natural as a blade of grass or an insect, only more complex, and approaching a higher level of complexity than us


Really?

I'm not in any way castigating or trying to belittle your worldview Dr, but I would like to defend the blade of grass, for it cannot defend itself.

That blade of grass has been evolving for thousands, if not millions, of years. It has evolved, in harmony with it's environment, to provide food for many species. It serves as a habitat for many species. When it dies, it selflessly nourishes the soil for the next generation of grass or, incredibly, edible crops. It can transform a dead landscape into a vibrant pleasure for our senses to feast upon. It turns brittle, hard ground into a lush carpet for us to tread upon. It may be lowly, but it is near the the start of a great chain of 'co-incidences' that has allowed us be here, thinking about this shit, tinkering with our toys and justifying ourselves.

I won't even get into the complex chemical, DNA and other processes that this blade of grass simply knows how to use - you are probably better scientifically qualified than me to ponder (if inclined) the astounding implications of 'life' arising from this, as-yet, rigid set of structures imposed by a technologically-advanced society on matters of which it has *not_a_clue*.

Technology is a human concept. There is nothing 'natural' about it. For the record, I am not a luddite. Many technologies have enriched our experience, albeit at the expense of the humble blade of grass amongst many - however - many technologies now threaten to overwhelm us when wielded by 'interested parties' who have no concept of 'OK, we've taken this as far as it needs to go'
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:29 am

slimmouse wrote:
The effects of the big bang are clear. Whats your perspective on the cause?


I haven't the foggiest, but I'm happy to speculate:

- We could be the inside of a black hole, spawned from a different universe.

- The universe (our part of it anyway) arose spontaneously from "chaos"/quantum foam.
(See complexity, spontaneous self-organization, emergence and chaos-theory)

- The Vikings were right, and we're walking around on Ymir's eyebrows:

"Out of Ymir's flesh was fashioned the earth,
And the ocean out of his blood;
Of his bones the hills, of his hair the trees,
Of his skull the heavens high."

"Mithgarth the gods from his eyebrows made,
And set for the sons of men;
And out of his brain the baleful clouds
They made to move on high."


To sum up - no one knows, but that doesn't in any way imply intent (And for the record - I'm not convinced about the eyebrow part :basicsmile ).

Edit: added slim's name to his quote.
Last edited by DrEvil on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:38 am

coffin_dodger wrote:
Technology is a human concept. There is nothing 'natural' about it. For the record, I am not a luddite. Many technologies have enriched our experience, albeit at the expense of the humble blade of grass amongst many - however - many technologies now threaten to overwhelm us when wielded by 'interested parties' who have no concept of 'OK, we've taken this as far as it needs to go'


I get where you're coming from, but let me put it this way:

If a bird uses a rock to crack something open to get at the juicy bits, is that natural, or is the bird employing technology? The way I see it we're doing the same thing, only with better (and way more dangerous) tools.

Same goes for the "OK, we've taken this as far as it needs to go" bit. Does a disease stop to think, "Hang on, we're about to wipe out our entire ecosystem (our bodies), maybe we should chill for a bit."?
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby tazmic » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:10 am

I guess this belongs here now:

We’re joined this week by celebrated technologist and co-founder of Wired Magazine, Kevin Kelly. Kevin shares how he went from a back-to-the-lander hippie in his early youth, to becoming one of the most important technological thinkers alive today.

We then explore one of the central ideas of Kelly’s technological philosophy, what he calls the technium. He shares how the technium can be dated all the way back to the beginning of the universe, and explains how the technium—a type of super-organism of interdependent technologies—can actually increase degrees of freedom and choice in the universe. Closing up the conversation we discuss whether the technium is a neutral force, or if it has some inherent goodness.

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/11/bg-196-the-technium/.
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Re: The emergence of spirituality, no con

Postby slimmouse » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:05 pm

I wanted to try and sum up the overall, incredibly acceptable premise of that podcast in one sentence, but alas I couldnt.

I really love the concept cos it makes a load of sense, and is told by a guy who sounds like he really knows his deeper stuff.

I really wonder where I would be right now spiritually speaking at least, without the internet? And how many other personal journies has it enriched with understanding ?

Thanks for that Tazmic.
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