RI fathers: Can you tell me about it?

[MacCruiskeen]

[Iamwhomiam]

Since you first posed your question, I had been wondering how to answer you, Joao, but something crossed my mind rather unexpectedly and I'll share it with you. I hope you may find this in some small way helpful. I had been puzzling over whether to be completely serious in sharing this with you, or to approach it humorously. My compromise: Seriously humorous.

Kids will fuck you up, dude. You'll never be the same. They will make you cry! They will make you do shit you would have never, ever thought of doing, like looking at their face upside down from only inches away. Seriously - they are fucking ALIENS!! Twisted, freaky shit, man. They will puke all over you way more often than any human need experience. Then they'll demand you wash the floor, and god forbid, you have two - let's save that bit for later, should the madness overtake you and you succumb to the plight of perpetual parenthood by birthing a child - in fairness to your soul, there's only so much you need to know, the rest will flow as fruit of your genealogical family tree evolves.

Did I mention they smell? Parenthood requires sniffing out such unpleasantness.

Sleepless nights, constant stress to function responsibly, as a Parent. Midnight trips to the er.
Pediatricians, Pedeodontist, Orthodontics.

Yeah, kids suck. The older they get, the more expensive they get.
If you're lucky, your kid will grow up without begging you to bail them out of jail, or more generally, without becoming a beggar.

Besides all that, they might just grow up and do something completely incomprehensible to you; something so bizarre and beyond your scope of experience, you'll think them completely mad, and always, forever after, you will remain doubtful of their sanity.

How on earth can one prepare themselves for anything like this, for example:



Yeah, skip havin' kids, they will trip you out, for sure. When they're new, they trick you into making you love them in a very peculiar, perhaps unique way. Evil sorcerers, all! You have been forewarned.

[brekin]

Yes to the above. Evil sorcerers we love though! It is some work though. I like to tell people that the jobs I had working with youth and coming from a large family were experiences I thought would best prepare me for parenthood. But in retrospect, working in salmon cannery over the summer was the probably the closest. A lot of the things you have to do as a parent aren't in themselves hard, they are just relentless and you are doing them often with little to no sleep.

Jim Gaffigan has 5, he knows.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/everyth ... 81792.html

[Joe Hillshoist]

Hello.

Asking for some thoughts and experiences on a pretty unusual and personal topic: fatherhood. My wife and I have been together for 10 years and she's getting very anxious to have kids. I'm finding the idea less and less appealing, however, both because of personal shortcomings which I'd hoped to have better addressed by this point in my life, and more relevant to the board, because the world is a fucked up and already overpopulated place.

I second everything everyone's said here. My wife is due in two days with our second kid, and today my 4 and a half year old daughter sat me down and cried with me because she is afraid of the change and misses her old preschool teacher. She is wise beyond her years and has probably seen things she shouldn't have at such a young age. Nothing horrific but just enough to let her know how full on life is. Moments like that will address personal growth things you'd never thought of before as well as the ones you're worried about.

I dunno how to deal with the slow motion car crash that is human "civilisation". The end of the world muthafucka and we're not ready. None the less being alive is one gift I've never been sorry about receiving. Without it there literally is nothing else. Including no chance to beat the odds and make something good out of the mess we're in.

Something of a different topic for RI, perhaps, but the crowd here is among the most aware and evolved that I know of, and I respect your opinions. I'd be grateful for anything people would be willing to share on the topic of choosing to reproduce. Input from mothers and those who've chosen not to have kids is quite welcome, as well, but the perspective of fathers would be particularly helpful. My options right now are basically have a kid soon or get divorced. I don't want to do either, and the "It's tough but amazing" line I get from most of my friends and family just sounds like zombie talk.

I realize I'm mostly a lurker and that you don't know me as well as it seems I know many of you. so please pardon such a personal request. I won't necessarily seek to respond to every post in the thread (if there are any), but they'll all surely be valuable. Thank you in advance.

Its zombie talk cos they miss sleep. But who needs sleep anyway...

If you really don't want a child then maybe you shouldn't have one, but I guess if that was the case you wouldn't actually be starting a thread about it. Being a dad is fulfilling in ways I never thought possible. I've seen and done some amazing things in my life, but being responsible for a little human and trying to give them the best chance I can to have a great life is rewarding in ways i never conceived and was never capable of conceiving. I'm also more scared than ever before - because so much can go wrong. But its not a bad thing. Cos it just reminds me what that person means and I understand my parents a little more. Working out the difference between disciplining someone because they will benefit later from learning that now and being annoyed cos you are a jerk is not easy but is worthwhile (and will help you develop). So yes its tough.

Watching a little thing become aware of the world and be so blown away by it and the fact that its alive, before its learned to talk or even differentiate itself from anything else is just mind blowing. We were all like that once. It doesn't hurt to be reminded. Watching someone strive to succeed at something and being there to encourage them or just pick them back up. What it means to be a father. The way find yourself putting your body on the line, between your child and danger without even being aware you're doing it, till you go to do it and its already happened. The hug my daughter gave me tonight cos I'd been there while she cried with fear during the day - she didn't want to cry, she wanted to be brave and strong but its ok not to be sometimes - it was possibly the best hug I've ever had in my life. So yes it is amazing.

And yes there are times you'll be a zombie cos you're so tired.

One of the most profound things I've ever experienced was in the moments after my daughter's birth. Maybe the most profound thing. Realising myself and nearly everyone I knew (with the exception of a few cesarean births but they are their own ordeal) including all my ancestors back thru countless generations, back further than our species even existed - and everyone else, everyone including hitler, pinochet, cheney, paul shafer and every other human monster ever - had to go thru that to be here and to live. The weight, well the gravity of that moment was beautiful. It was something I knew in my heart and my mind and my soul. Before that moment i thought i knew what the term "grok" meant.

Edit: its not just the monsters, its the heros too, and the ordinary people (same thing really) ... all of us have been thru that moment of birth.

One last point - I was (am) in my 40s when I had my first child and that was 20 years too late cos I really wanted to run around the way I did back then. I would recommend being a bit younger just cos its less physically demanding if your knees still work and you back is still capable of picking up a 10 - 15kg child and throwing them into the air then catching them. You'll throw them up and catch them anyway, it'll just be easier. If you're gonna do it don't wait.

Good luck whatever happens.

[Nordic]

Beautifully put, Joe. I would agree with the last bit -- I was 40 when my son was born, and what with my bad back, and now my suddenly-painful knees, I really wish I were younger. My son used to even mention it -- not to be cruel, just in that devastatingly honest way they have -- that he wishes I were younger and could run around more.

As it is I do it anyway and pay the price later. Although the last time I really ran (literally ran) with him is when I had the brutal realization that my knees were seriously fucked up now and found out that yes, I have the beginnings of osteoarthritis in them. (Sucks!)

So yeah. While in so many ways I don't think I was "ready" to have a kid until I did, having a kid rather forces the issue on you and you can find yourself growing up rather quickly when it happens -- and the more physically capable you are of dealing with it the better.

[conniption]

Joe - I'm thinking of you often and wishing you and yours all the best.

[conniption]

......

Anyway this conversation will probably move on before I get the chance to take much more part in it. The missus had a daughter late yesterday and i'm heading back to the hospital to either pick them up of at least sus out when they are coming home. Might be busy for a while.

congratulations!!!

[Joe Hillshoist]

Thanks very much conniption.

things are going really well at the moment.

Cheers.

[brekin]

Just saw this Joe, and wishing you the best and hoping you get some probably very needed sleep when you can.

[backtoiam]

Cheers Joe. I wish you the best bro...