Noob sticking his neck out...evolution as dynamic process

[slow_dazzle]

Physically, we have evolved to the point where we are not going much further. We are bipeds, we have binocular vision and our physical bodies are more or less fit for purpose.

If we accept that evolution is an ongoing process what is the next step? Maybe it is an evolution of the mind but how is that process to be facilitated?

If we accept that all species get those attributes that ensure their survival why do we have a capacity for love, an appreciation of beauty and a hunger for knowledge? In the dog-eat-dog world they seem to be superfluous but we have these attributes without question. What purpose do they serve? Why are they there? Are they part of our evolutionary path?

This is just a short post to try to get people positing their views on what we need to do to unlock that latent potential, one that if exercised to the full might take us outside the parameters of the conventional wisdom.

There is something else out there but we cannot articulate it well. Posters on RI know this; I know because I have read the articles on this site for months. You all know there is something more...how do we get there?

[monster]

If we accept that evolution is an ongoing process what is the next step? Maybe it is an evolution of the mind but how is that process to be facilitated?

Drugs. That's why they're illegal...

If we accept that all species get those attributes that ensure their survival why do we have a capacity for love, an appreciation of beauty and a hunger for knowledge? In the dog-eat-dog world they seem to be superfluous but we have these attributes without question. What purpose do they serve? Why are they there? Are they part of our evolutionary path?

I think that's what happens when you're half-spirit half-animal.

There is something else out there but we cannot articulate it well. Posters on RI know this; I know because I have read the articles on this site for months. You all know there is something more...how do we get there?

December 22, 2006: Global Orgasm Day

Seriously, though, excellent prompt. I hope people will put in some thoughts on this.

[tsoldrin]

Physically, we have evolved to the point where we are not going much further. We are bipeds, we have binocular vision and our physical bodies are more or less fit for purpose.

I respectfully disagree. We may have paused briefly because we have gained the ability to tailor our environment for our comfort and thereby lessen the pressure to evolve faster, but I doubt we have reached some kind of pinacle. Looking at nearly any species shows something evolved well for its particular niche and at a seeming evolutionary stand-still, however taking a long view back at earth history shows this perception to be false.

We may well be spuring on certain changes in ourselves right now... there may be people out there with a high degree of imunity to the toxins we are pumping into our environment and then taking into our bodies. This would seem to be an unnatural evolution, but an evolution nonetheless.

If the corporate rape of the environment goes on, what will people look like in 20 generations? Or 100? If we survive that is... will they have massive chests to hold monsterous lungs in order to take in enough oxygen from our poisonous atmosphere? Will they be tiny so as to require less ogygen to begin with?

IMO We're not done yet, and may never be. Evolution is likely a neverending process.

[Telexx]

I think this is an excellent question that should have been posted in the general forum!

Personally, I like Timothy Leary's idea of SMILE:

SM - Space Migration
I (isquared) - Intelligence Increase
LE - Life Exstension.

As a species, if we make it through these difficult times, I'd hope we would colonise the stars using both external (faster than light travel etc) and internal (psionics etc) technologies to support us. New frontiers etc...

Thanks,

Telexx

[Kid Of The Black Hole]

Physically, we have evolved to the point where we are not going much further. We are bipeds, we have binocular vision and our physical bodies are more or less fit for purpose.

If we accept that evolution is an ongoing process what is the next step? Maybe it is an evolution of the mind but how is that process to be facilitated?

If we accept that all species get those attributes that ensure their survival why do we have a capacity for love, an appreciation of beauty and a hunger for knowledge? In the dog-eat-dog world they seem to be superfluous but we have these attributes without question. What purpose do they serve? Why are they there? Are they part of our evolutionary path?

This is just a short post to try to get people positing their views on what we need to do to unlock that latent potential, one that if exercised to the full might take us outside the parameters of the conventional wisdom.

There is something else out there but we cannot articulate it well. Posters on RI know this; I know because I have read the articles on this site for months. You all know there is something more...how do we get there?

Some of this stuff gets data dumped on the blog, where its easy to get lost and sometimes its just links to stuff that you have to follow for yourself.

There are some serious objections to mainstream models of evolution which are grounded in the physical being the most fundamental reality. That sounds like meta-babble I guess, but its the idea that the more basic building block of the universe is matter.

You can go alot of different directions moving away from that, although most of them revolve around consciousness being the more fundamental "stuff".

You have to be careful because it can easily turn into endless talking that is just go-nowhere crap.

There are alot of people tying together the Western mode of thinking (trying to codify everyhing, to put it as abruptly as possible) and how it encourages expansionism, imperialism, humanism, capitalism/corporatism.

I'm not a deep enough thinker to tell you if/how it all fits togther, but its worth digging into IMO. Just stay away from the overly academic stuff, that is just legalese in a different context IMO

[H_C_E]

You have to be careful because it can easily turn into endless talking that is just go-nowhere crap.

Isn't that this forum in a nutshell?

As much as I enjoy this forum, it does seem to be the equivalent of a group of people standing a round a horrible motor accident and saying "How awful" but no one even suggesting how they might do anything about the matter.

Unpopular opinion I'm sure. Must be one reason why people always rush to respond to everything I post here.

HCE

[Seamus OBlimey]

Tsoldrin said pretty much what I was thinking re physical evolution. We stop evolving when we start changing our environment to meet our needs, but now our environment is so changing we need to evolve to meet its new demands.

I remember reading somewhere that the elite(s) will evolve one way (via controlled environments, genetic manipulation etc.), while the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves as their guinea pigs. With the amounts of uranium recently introduced to the atmosphere there are bound to be some beneficial (to some) mutations among the horrific ones we've seen the likes of as a result of Gulf War 1.

As for colonising the stars.. it's a pipedream (colon-ising - get it?) sold by the MIC. Though I suppose if we can make this planet uninhabitable we should be able to make others inhabitable.

As for the dog-eat-dog world (coincidence - I'm listening to Slaughter and the Dogs - Do it Dog Style), that is something we've had imposed on us over the last few decades. I'm alright Jack, Looking after number one is not an attitude I was brought up with, ie caring, sharing co-op, do unto others etc. I've rejected it since I saw it introduced (at least to me) in the late seventies, early eighties.. remember Harry Enfields Loadsamoney? A pisstake of yuppies which was eagerly taken up by a generation of young pre-privatisation Thatcherites? And Tell Sid?

As the pendulum swings right it has to swing left again and when it does we sheeple will need shepherds. Hopefully we'll find experienced ones to offer advice and inspiration. There are people here looking for solutions and finding some, [doffs cap to IC, MP and Joe], and while I've never been a follower I hope I'll always be a learner.

[Banta]

You have to be careful because it can easily turn into endless talking that is just go-nowhere crap.

Isn't that this forum in a nutshell?

As much as I enjoy this forum, it does seem to be the equivalent of a group of people standing a round a horrible motor accident and saying "How awful" but no one even suggesting how they might do anything about the matter.

Unpopular opinion I'm sure. Must be one reason why people always rush to respond to everything I post here.

HCE

I agree, but I honestly think that there's nothing major to be done. At least not now, aside from keep on trying to figure out exactly what's going on and encouraging others to do the same.

I want to know, who's to say that human beings are even gonna evolve any further? Seems like we're a touch too "smart" for our own good.

Maybe evolution is something like people with Down Syndrome. I'm only half kidding when I say this.

[monster]

I want to know, who's to say that human beings are even gonna evolve any further?

Humans can't evolve any further.

It's like on the Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George ask Elaine who would win in a fight, and she says "George." Jerry asks why, and she says "George fights dirty."

The point is that the violent man always wins. Enlightened, peaceful beings would never survive on this planet.

[Banta]

The point is that the violent man always wins. Enlightened, peaceful beings would never survive on this planet.

Eye on the TV
Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor
It happens to be

Like:
"Killed by the husband"
"Drowned by the ocean"
"Shot by his own son"
"She used a poison in his tea
and kissed him goodbye"
That's my kind of story.
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother holds her child,
Watches him die

Hands to the sky crying,
"Why, oh why?!"

Cause I need to watch things die
From a distance
Vicariously, I
Live while the whole world dies
You all need it too - don't lie.

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit,
We won't give pause until the blood is flowin'
Neither the brave nor bold
Will write us a story. So,
We won't give pause until the blood is flowin'

I need to watch things die
From a good safe distance
Vicariously, I
Live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same so
Why can't we

Just admit it

Blood like rain, come down
Drum on grave and ground

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur
Still have the transmittal
Synch to the death rattle...

La, la, la, la, la, la,la-lie (x4)

Credulous at best your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
Pull your head on out
Your head believes it give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

The universe is hostile
So impersonal
Devour to survive
So it is, so it's always been ...

We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously, I
Live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I.

[Banta]

Anyway, the point is, we either all evolve or none of us do and one option seems distinctly more likely than the other.

Well, of course, this is accepting the premise that the evolution in the universe is what we would deem a "positive" venture, which is a fairly weak assumption in the first place.

[H_C_E]

Maybe evolution is something like people with Down Syndrome. I'm only half kidding when I say this.

I can't speak to this except to relate the following:

When my wife and found out she was pregnant last spring it was because of young girl with Down's syndrome. As the girl passed us with her mother on a grocery store aisle she pointed to my wife's stomach and said
"Mama, she's pregnant. She doesn't know it now, but she will." That freaked us out to the point that we made an appoinment to see the doctor.
The doctor was able to track it back and my wife was only 24 hours pregnant at that point, possibly 48 at the most.

I don't know.

HCE

[Banta]

That's an interesting anecdote, H_C_E. Very interesting.

[Joe Hillshoist]

I want to know, who's to say that human beings are even gonna evolve any further?

Humans can't evolve any further.

It's like on the Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George ask Elaine who would win in a fight, and she says "George." Jerry asks why, and she says "George fights dirty."

The point is that the violent man always wins. Enlightened, peaceful beings would never survive on this planet.

Years ago I knew this Chinese guy. He was old really nice peaceful and all that. Ran a market stall next to a mates stall. One day he didn't show up to do his stall.

I asked where he was.

Apparantly he had been jumped by six skinheads the previous day.

Four of them were in hospital, and he was down at the cop shop helping police with their inquiries.

He was back the next week, no charges as it was all in self defense.

The guy was about 5 foot 5 and probably weighed less than 50 kg. he did Tai Chi all his life tho. he was a very enlightened peaceful human being, and he always did alright.