Reminder: no personal attacks

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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 19, 2012 2:21 pm

beeblebrox wrote:
Usrename wrote:
My experience in discussing Israeli/Palestinian/Jewish/Muslim issues on the interwebs has been that a lot of miscommunication occurs because people don’t first, right up front, admit who are the opressors and who are the opressed. There is no parity between the opressed and the opressor. Ever.


A statement that is true and yet bullshit in context because...

1) Everyone on that thread knew and said who were the oppressors and who were the oppressed in the Middle East conflict, and no one implied parity between them.

2) Gilad Atzmon is not the oppressed and objectively harms the cause of the oppressed.

3) It is sophistry to distract from Atzmon's use of Nazi tropes (to piss off his parents) in his public speech by pointing to the oppressed. In fact, it is an exploitation of the oppressed.

To descend to your level: stop exploiting the oppressed.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 19, 2012 2:24 pm

beeblebrox wrote:
Usrename wrote:
My experience in discussing Israeli/Palestinian/Jewish/Muslim issues on the interwebs has been that a lot of miscommunication occurs because people don’t first, right up front, admit who are the opressors and who are the opressed. There is no parity between the opressed and the opressor. Ever.



This was my biggest frustration with that thread, the fact that some people (speaking mainly about AD) could go on and on about the evils of anti-semitism without first acknowledging the evils being perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinians, because I don't think it should be taken as a granted, it should be acknowledged right up front, so as to avoid confusion. No doubt some terrible things have been done to the jews in past, and racism against them continues today, but as of right now, this very moment in history, what is the greater evil at work? Anti-semitism, or the genocide being committed by Israel against Palestine?


Therefore, let's talk shit about the Jews, yeah!
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 19, 2012 2:26 pm

This board has never had a shortage of people who talk shit, get their asses kicked in argument, then complain that they're being censored for another dozen posts.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby beeblebrox » Sat May 19, 2012 2:28 pm

barracuda wrote:
beeblebrox wrote:
Usrename wrote:
My experience in discussing Israeli/Palestinian/Jewish/Muslim issues on the interwebs has been that a lot of miscommunication occurs because people don’t first, right up front, admit who are the opressors and who are the opressed. There is no parity between the opressed and the opressor. Ever.



This was my biggest frustration with that thread, the fact that some people (speaking mainly about AD) could go on and on about the evils of anti-semitism without first acknowledging the evils being purpetrated by Israel against the Palestinians, because I don't think it should be taken as a granted, it should be acknowledged right up front, so as to avoid confusion.


Are doing the thread over again? Great. First sentence of the OP contains these words: "the just, vital, and growing movement in support of the Palestinian national liberation struggle". The last sentence of the OP contains these words: "the need to struggle for the liberation of Palestine is more vital than ever".

AD has posted VOLUMINOUS amounts of material regarding the ongoing Palestinian situation here. If you don't believe me, do a search for yourself. I'd say that he is probably the third-most prolific poster on the board on the subject behind Alice and seemslikeadream.

No doubt some absolutely terrible things have been done to the jews in past, and racism against them continues today, but as of right now, this very moment in history, what is the greater evil at work? Anti-semitism, or the genocide being committed by Israel against Palestine?


Are we required in some way to ignore one ongoing evil because of the existence of another? Do we ignore, for example, oppression here in the United States because of the oppression the US military carries out overseas is so much more brutal? Should we ignore Congolese cannibalism because the colonial aspects of the wars there are far more destructive?

The OP of the Atzmon thread was about the antisemitism of remarks made by Atzmon. If you need to preface a thread about antisemitism with a disclaimer which states that, yes, antisemitism is bad, but what the Israelis are doing right now is worse, I would contend that this mindset is in itself antisemitic, in that it seeks to blame all Jews for the crimes of the Israeli state and somehow dilute the import of antisemitism vis-a-vis other forms of hatred and violence in the world.

If you had concerns or confusion about this issue, you might have brought it up during the THREE WEEK LONG THREAD. At this time, the main players in the thread are gone from the board. However if you think it is deserving of further examination, feel free to start a thread and see what happens there.



Well, I admit that I haven't been here that long, and that I'm out of my depth on this issue. I was only speaking for myself, about what I found personally frustrating about that thread. You're drawing conclusions and inferences out of my statement that are more postulation on your part than what I intended to communicate. I do not presume to tell anybody how to think or act with regard to this subject, because as I said before, I'm out of my depth. Probably I should withdraw from the discussion because of this, so I will.

WRT to AD, though, it's easy for statements made in support of Palestine in his postings to get lost in the shuffle, so to speak. He seems to disingenuous to me, like he enjoys starting antogonistic threads about controversial subjects. For what purpose? I do not know. Nor do I really give a shit, just stating why, IMO, he has no credibility.

One more thing......
barracuda wrote:If you need to preface a thread about antisemitism with a disclaimer which states that, yes, antisemitism is bad, but what the Israelis are doing right now is worse, I would contend that this mindset is in itself antisemitic


Obviously I don't believe that needs to be done (the disclaimer part). As for the rest of that statement, really? You believe that's a fair assesment of what I meant to communicate?
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Sat May 19, 2012 2:30 pm

If it's half as nice out where you live as it is where I live, you fucking assholes should be out frolicking in the beautiful weather instead of dredging up the Atzmon stuff.

I'm sorry, I meant to call you sons of bitches instead of fucking assholes.

Non-personally speaking, of course.


I mean ... really, people.

Let it go.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 19, 2012 2:31 pm

beeblebrox wrote:Obviously I don't believe that needs to be done (the disclaimer part). As for the rest of that statement, really? You believe that's a fair assesment of what I meant to communicate?


What you meant to communicate is unknowable. It's an accurate assessment of the words you wrote.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby Searcher08 » Sat May 19, 2012 2:35 pm

JackRiddler wrote:This board has never had a shortage of people who talk shit, get their asses kicked in argument, then complain that they're being censored for another dozen posts.


I retract my comment from my previous post.

FFS Bruce, please lock this fucking thread.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby beeblebrox » Sat May 19, 2012 2:37 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
beeblebrox wrote:
Usrename wrote:
My experience in discussing Israeli/Palestinian/Jewish/Muslim issues on the interwebs has been that a lot of miscommunication occurs because people don’t first, right up front, admit who are the opressors and who are the opressed. There is no parity between the opressed and the opressor. Ever.



This was my biggest frustration with that thread, the fact that some people (speaking mainly about AD) could go on and on about the evils of anti-semitism without first acknowledging the evils being perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinians, because I don't think it should be taken as a granted, it should be acknowledged right up front, so as to avoid confusion. No doubt some terrible things have been done to the jews in past, and racism against them continues today, but as of right now, this very moment in history, what is the greater evil at work? Anti-semitism, or the genocide being committed by Israel against Palestine?


Therefore, let's talk shit about the Jews, yeah!


No, that was not my intended message.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby Simulist » Sat May 19, 2012 2:43 pm

Several days ago, I thought I had a semblance of understanding about what's going on around here.

Right now I'm not actually sure.

That may be progress.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby beeblebrox » Sat May 19, 2012 2:51 pm

JackRiddler wrote:
beeblebrox wrote:Obviously I don't believe that needs to be done (the disclaimer part). As for the rest of that statement, really? You believe that's a fair assesment of what I meant to communicate?


What you meant to communicate is unknowable. It's an accurate assessment of the words you wrote.


Then I did a poor job of articulating my point, no surprise there. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am going to withdraw from the discussion.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 19, 2012 2:53 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:This board has never had a shortage of people who talk shit, get their asses kicked in argument, then complain that they're being censored for another dozen posts.


I retract my comment from my previous post.

FFS Bruce, please lock this fucking thread.


I was so charmed by the pretense that you would now mediate with your fancy psych categories, after having been one of the worst offenders for misrepresenting what others said.
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Re: Reminder: no personal attacks

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Sat May 19, 2012 2:54 pm

This thread seems to have outlived its usefulness.

I'm sending it to spend it's golden years among the youth in Asia.

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