re: Jeff and Arcadia

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re: Jeff and Arcadia

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:20 pm

Through private discussion, the issue breached by me yesterday has been resolved to the satisfaction of us both. It was a misunderstanding on my part and decisions were made in anger and stress. I apologize to the RI community for any uncertainties I may have introduced. Both Jeff and myself carry heavy loads and I would imagine the rest of you who live in these troubled times do as well and can understand.

It's all too easy to lose perspective and yield to doubt and confusion. There never seems to be enough of that to ration out..Hopefully this stain to the RI community can be washed away in time.

Sincerely,
Arcadia
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:27 pm

Way cool, Arcadia! :)
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Welcome back

Postby professorpan » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:29 pm

Welcome back, your dreams were your ticket out...

Welcome back, to that same old place that you laughed about.......

(with apologies to John Sebastian)
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Postby Jeff » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:09 pm

No worries. We're all sweathogs on this bus.

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Postby Seamus OBlimey » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:39 pm

I dont know how you got away with that A! Surely some conpiracy?
Must admit I wondered if the onion was Jeff having a laugh too :?

Happier New Year!!!
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Postby stickdog99 » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:16 pm

Jeff and arcadia, sitting in a tree ...
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:23 pm

All is fair in love and war.....
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Jeff and Arcadia

Postby pitcairn » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:07 am

I hope not to breach any protocol(s) by entering my first post, not as an introductory, but by joining an ongoing discussion; my hope and caution all the greater in such an instance as this, wherein the discussion compasses a rather more personal issue.

But then, it was this very issue and this discussion that prompted me to post, rather than continue on my heretofore silent, "read only," way.

The feelings that so prompted me were and remain strong; so here goes, with apologies in advance should this venture be found presumptuous or unwelcome; as well, I would ask of all readers a benefit of the doubt in favour of good intention if my words seem ill chosen - I am not so articulate as the assembled company. But I shall endeavour to take care, as much as I am able.

I have been reading here for some while; and, having learned a great deal from the many discussions and posters, I want first to express my appreciation for Jeff's hospitality, and for the engaging discourse of his guests.

When, a short time ago, et in Arcadia ego was to take on moderator's duties, I came to read one day, and saw that the notice of that had disappeared from the index, where it had appeared, seemingly briefly, just before.

I don't know a great deal of eiAe, but enough that I became quite concerned at this disappearance of notice, and in fact, was worried for eiAe's welfare. I am not very sophisticated in matters of internet fora and message boards and at first thought perhaps my pages were loading improperly, and/or that such a disappearance of notice might be common and not bode anything of significance; etc. I also didn't know where to look or how, for any hints or clues. (I'm a very basic online reader, which should be obvious by now.)

But in the end, and probably by chance, I found the explanatory note and was sorry for eiAe's troubles; but also relieved to see new posts from him.

Then along comes Mr Onion.

An industrious stylist, Mr Onion, as no doubt all agree, whose demeanor and purpose must be as they may, but whose explanation for referring to himself in the third vegetable brought me up short. In relief against the charged and difficult discussion then at hand, I read:

(sorry don't yet know how to do boxed quotes)

"Speaking in third onion. This relates to questions of identity and the recognition of the differences between the written self and the actual self, both in how they are interpreted by others and understood by the writer. In short, no matter one's sincerity, one's online identity is a fiction created, consciously or unconsciously, for the purpose of projecting an image of oneself, virtually speaking. Again, no matter the sincerity, this image is necessarily limited and false. Adopting the third onion is simply a way to acknowledge this fact and to serve as a constant reminder that the written persona and the true self are not the same. Rather than attempt to tease apart artifice from actuality, the Onion prefers to acknowledge the whole process as inherently limited and artificial. Perhaps this eccentricity of elocution will be overlooked by those able to appreciate the warning it is meant to provide. "

My intuition may not be so rigorous as might be, and I am only one, this must be said: but my experience does not support the notion that those speaking (by writing) here are "projecting an image ... necessarily limited and false;" and, if I may be so bold, I should suggest an advice quite other than that offered by Mr Onion:

"All young artists worry very much that their work may not bear fully and unmistakeably that unique mark and character that tells the world just who is the author; but this should be the least of their worries: that is the one thing you cannot avoid ... the first 50 to 100 hundred portraits any artist undertakes will be self-portraits."

(I hesitate to give an attribution, only becos this has surely been said, with minor variations, by many elders to many youth, in many times and places.)

I needn't point out, but perhaps it can bear repeating, that one's first art is one's life, and every man and woman the author thereof, in things both great and small ... which surely would include writing on a forum.

In sum, I am very glad that et in Arcadia ego and Jeff Wells are restored in their mutual goodwill; and, I would add only that, by my understanding, the "mark and character" of each, as may be seen and felt here, portended this very outcome.

Very good wishes to all as the new year approaches,

Pitcairn
Everything in nature has a power in it.
-Thomas Banyacya
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:05 am

Hi, Pitcairn, welcome to the roiling circus that is RI, full of gladiators and jugglers and death-defying artists and, dare I say it? with its share of clowns and animals... I for one am glad you left your seat in the audience to come join the action on stage.

Your intervention brought up a very good point that had been lost in the scuffle: Onion's assertion that:

...no matter one's sincerity, one's online identity is a fiction created, consciously or unconsciously, for the purpose of projecting an image of oneself, virtually speaking. Again, no matter the sincerity, this image is necessarily limited and false. Adopting the third onion is simply a way to acknowledge this fact and to serve as a constant reminder that the written persona and the true self are not the same.


Beyond the simplistic pointing out of the obvious, I think this statement is profoundly false.

After all, the same could be said for conversations between co-workers, or people who meet at a party, or neighbours or spouses, or between even the closest friends or relatives. Without identifying or defining "true self", one could argue that the "selves" that each of us reveals as, say, a parent, a boss, a political activist, a partners or a buddy, etc., etc., are "not the same" as the "true self" whatever that is.

This strikes me as dangerously dissociative (if you really believe that you can be someone other than who you "really" are), or manipulative (if you are deliberately trying to project a false persona to others).

In any case, it is alien to me. Although the jokes I tell small children are different from the ones I tell my best friend, the sense of humour is the same. Talking about politics with adults and talking about behaviour in the playground with my kids, I stress and defend the very same standards and values that dominate and guide my moral compass.

Is there anyone here who espouses and defends views they don't really hold? Is there anyone here who pretends to care about something that really doesn't matter to them? I don't think they'd last very long (and I suspect that many haven't, of those who have tried). Some (not all) of the people here are a paranoid bunch, some with OCD tendencies (I mean that in the nicest possible way); there's always someone to catch a stray inconsistency or slip of the mask and proclaim it triumphantly.

I submit that if someone stays here a while, posting and discussing, eventually they reveal more about their "true" selves than they do in most social situations. I'd go even further, and suggest that this forum allows us to explore and discover things about ourselves and our deepest-held convictions, about our world-view and possibly about problematic aspects of our personality, that we might not have been aware of in our "normal" lives, as people react and respond with fewer social inhibitions to our stated opinions and the methods we use to get our message across.

"The Onion" may think he's got us all outsmarted, but the joke is on him. Despite what he thinks is his fiendishly clever disguise, using the third person and referring to himself as a vegetable, he unconsciously falls into the unique patterns that are characteristic of Dream's End, and that I could not emulate even if I tried real hard.

So, unless it can be conclusively proven that Dream's End and the Mad Onion are two distinct individuals (you techies would know how to do that better than I), then he himself is proof that our written "personas" here reflect and express our "true selves" at least as much as any interaction with other people can do so.
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Some history

Postby antiaristo » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:37 am

Alice,

For your own peace of mind, check out veritas.

Dreams End has a portfolio of dirty tricks, and I used to get into periodic fights with him.

But Jeff always took his side, without exception.

Pan complains elsewhere about the treatment of Zap on this board.

But if you check out the archives you will find that DE did far worse to Catherine Austin Fitts when she posted here under her own name. When I objected strongly Jeff split the thread, put my part in the Fire Pit and left that which I found objectionable on the main discussion board.

These days I don't "socialise" with other members the way I once did; I just post my material and accept this wonderful gift.

But I said it many moons ago, and I still hold to the view that this board is an act of love towards us by jeff Wells. I just have to accept that he and I see the world differently.

But it sure is ironic to find DE/Mad Onion return as a wrecker, after all the favours he was granted.
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Re: multiple logins

Postby Iroquois » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:03 am

So, unless it can be conclusively proven that Dream's End and the Mad Onion are two distinct individuals ... , then he himself is proof that our written "personas" here reflect and express our "true selves" at least as much as any interaction with other people can do so.


Well said, Alice. I am not aware if Jeff has a rule against posters maintaining multiple logins. If he does not, perhaps this will encourage one. I agree that integrity is at least as important here as in all other aspects of our lives. And, such a practice seems inherently dishonest to me.

And, welcome to the board, pitcairn.
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Postby sunny » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:27 am

The veritas episode was quite revealing and generated a lot of well deserved distrust toward DE. I'm not sure why he copped to it, but I doubt he will again, considering the reaction he got to the previous episode.

I must agree, Alice, that a board such as this encourages the revelation of our true selves. After all, we are mostly anonymous thus free to be ourselves more readily than in "real" life. I for one am usually reluctant to discuss parapolitics with those closest to me as such discussions often result in sideways glances. Only the most dishonest among us would attempt to create a false persona or image on a forum when such a thing is inherently unnecessary.
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Postby MASONIC PLOT » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:14 am

Welcome to the board PIT. Glad to have a fresh view on the matter.
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Re: Jeff and Arcadia

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:02 am

pitcairn wrote:In sum, I am very glad that et in Arcadia ego and Jeff Wells are restored in their mutual goodwill; and, I would add only that, by my understanding, the "mark and character" of each, as may be seen and felt here, portended this very outcome.


Thanks for the concern, pitcairn, and welcome to the board. I'm not aware of the removal of any threads here, personally, and sorry for any confusion you might have experienced. I suppose in a way I owe thanks to the Onion for instigating me sufficiently to confront my own distortions, which I'm relieved to place behind me. I also agree there's a telling psychosis exposed in the assertion that online personas are departures deliberate or otherwise from an individual's gestalt.

Very disturbing assertion, that, but as this event demonstrates, good can emerge from even the rottenest pile of compost. I salute Onion as the worthy and twisted adversary he appears to consider himself to this board and it's members, and regret that such an obvious intellegence elects to debaunch and squander itself and others.

Such a waste..

As for me, I can only be myself, always have, always will, and one highly imperfect Arcadia is more than enough, no doubt. About the only part of the 'real' me I omit or depart from on this board is the steady stream of expletives I usually punctuate every other word that comes out of my mouth with.

And even that can be a chore at times..

Welcome again, and let us hope against hope that this New Year brings changes we can all appreciate. I think you may agree with me that they are long overdue.

Cheers,
Arcadia
"but I do know that you should remove my full name from your sig. Dig?" - Unnamed, Super Scary Persun, bbrrrrr....
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internecine feuding on RI? or What?

Postby greencrow0 » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:21 am

I must be crazy...all of this subtext completely going over my head...

I've been posting since 2005 and don't understand any of this...can someone sum it up for me?

gc
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