More Proof Why Yelling "Nazi" Isn't Helpful

[8bitagent]

searcher said:

Try Evening Primrose Oil

Figures. A woman demands logic and facts in an argument, and it must be 'that time of the month'. We're all hysterics, you know, 'hysteria' being derived from the Greek word for 'womb'.

First I'm Mr. Spock, now I'm Scarlett.

Whatever.

8bit, I'm still waiting. Which is it to be: sorry or sleazy?

Sleazy, for saying that anti Semitism is on the sharp rise in Europe?
Hell, in Belgium schools they have to skip over teaching the Holocaust as to not "offend anyone".

Meanwhile in the Netherlands, the Muslims there get continually bombarded with anti Islamic propaganda on television and from the government

Both anti Muslim and anti Jewry sentiments and action is on the rise, and I find the whole situation very unfortunate.

[AlicetheKurious]

8bitagent said:

Now a Jewish family in Europe can't go anywhere without being spit on by people, as somehow in Europe Jews are the accepted target...

AtK said:

Don't try to backtrack now, or I'll revise my opinion of you from "flaky" to "sleazy". You made a specific, outrageous statement that I quoted, and I asked you to back it up. Do so, admit that it was a crazy misrepresentation of reality, or reveal yourself to be a rotten egg.

8bitagent said:

Sleazy, for saying that anti Semitism is on the sharp rise in Europe? Hell, in Belgium schools they have to skip over teaching the Holocaust as to not "offend anyone".

Hokey dokey. Sleazy it is. Not merely flaky, but dishonest. I discern hints of a method behind the surface madness of your posts. Peekaboo.

This has been an interesting thread. Nomo, you've also revealed yourself here, to be one heck of a hypocrite. With an ugly agenda.

P.S. as for this:

Meanwhile in the Netherlands, the Muslims there get continually bombarded with anti Islamic propaganda on television and from the government

More simple-minded hyperbole, as a mask for the *deliberate* disinformation you tirelessly peddle re: feverish "Islamic/Neo-Nazi Global NWO Elite" meme. Each time one of your bizarre bits of shrapnel "facts" is demonstrated to be false or misleading, you backtrack temporarily, only to pop back up with it in another thread. Interesting method of seeding this board with what is essentially cheap agitprop.

Neurological and cognitive diversity.

Sure. But that's not what this is, Searcher.

[Searcher08]

searcher said:

Glad to see all the information about your widely different learning styles has made such a difference, Alice

Do you actually think that new ideas come from analysis?

Do they come from someone else telling you what to believe via declarative statements of 'fact' (historical and otherwise) based on ignorance, lies and distortions?

Contrary to your assumptions, I'm all for neurological and cognitive diversity: but when it comes to making a case, I do prefer conclusions to be based on logic and solid evidence. Otherwise, we're just, um, pleasing ourselves. You know.

In terms of evidence of a tolerance of cognitive diversity, you show absolutely none. I provided sourced evidence of the difference in styles and you are NOT showing tolerance except that it is OK for YOU to engage in really nasty ad hominems and act like a playground bully.
You specifically did not answer the question about new ideas.

You seem to be engaged in an old fashioned dialectical diatribe. Your whole Analysis / Critical Thinking edifice is very very poor for creating new ideas or perceptions, or exploring unexpected connections or seeing unusual links between actors in a system that others have missed. Rather than dissing 8bit, you could actually learn a great deal from him.

You are showing yourself more and more to be schooled in an "I am Right - You are Wrong" (win lose) thinking style and appear to be stuck in it. I can appraciate how you are in a situation where there are people who politically hate you and are constantly throwing shit at you it makes you very defensive, however surely YOU of all people on the board would be the one to show tolerance of style???

I respect what you have to say about the Middle East Alice AND what you say is IMPORTANT and NEEDS to be said AND sometimes you come across like a hand on hip, finger wagging friggin HARPIE. How specifically does an approach like that develop any form of dialogue or real communication? Not every post is a battle to be fought to the death.

[Searcher08]

searcher said:

Try Evening Primrose Oil

Figures. A woman demands logic and facts in an argument, and it must be 'that time of the month'. We're all hysterics, you know, 'hysteria' being derived from the Greek word for 'womb'.

First I'm Mr. Spock, now I'm Scarlett.

Whatever.

8bit, I'm still waiting. Which is it to be: sorry or sleazy?

How would YOU feel Alice, if I shouted at you -
I DEMAND connectionist exploratory thinking from YOU, NOW!!

You were not just "demanding logic and facts". You were in full on raging Harpy mode. As usual you even see this as Either Or - Either Scarlett or Spock, when you are a acting like a ROMULAN <tease>

[hava1]

MEMRI, Simon Wisenthal Center, The US government websites, etc are in fact promoting a focus on virulent anti Semetism in Europe. Absolutely, MEMRI along with IntelCenter and all these other military industrial cutouts have a keen interest on pushing the "Muslims=extremists meme".

However, when we look at who is promoting violent hatred of Jews across Europe, it's neo Nazi BNP(Germany) and radical clerics who are German BND, British MI5/MI6 and other intelligence backed assets.

Absolutely there's a heightened climate of intimidation toward Jews in many European countries, to where previously the Pakistani and Turkish immigrants felt it(in England and Germany especially)

Thank you. Concise and accurate. BND and MI whatever, rampant antisemitism along with bizarre mystical beliefs about the Kabbala-Jewish-end of tme "powers" (2012 meme) - I've written about it here, first hand experience (in canada, well they have friends there too).

However, the US anti Arab sentiment is by no way replacing the antisemitism they promote, it complements it.
---
However, perhaps those organizations do not represent the popular sentments of their countries in that matter, as well as others. ITs a league of its own, and seems to create a "community" in and of itself. I am not sure that they became antisemitic now, they were always like that given the nature of the jobs and the habit to practice occultism with essentialist views on "races" and such like.

--However, the Israeli regime is not innocent or clean from collaboration with these groups, and in fact the local "club" adopted the belief systems, the occultism and ...antisemitism of a perculiar, domestic type. Namely, you can add the Israeli Mossad/Malmab etc. groupings among the culprits that probably join hands to stirr those racist and falmboyant hantred against Jews, moslems and set them against each other.

[stefano]

I'm with you Alice.

Now a Jewish family in Europe can't go anywhere without being spit on by people

It's not a huge step from thinking that it's ok to make up nonsense like the above, to claiming Ahmadinejad said he wants to nuke Israel and piss on the smouldering ashes.

[AlicetheKurious]

I'm with you Alice.

Now a Jewish family in Europe can't go anywhere without being spit on by people

It's not a huge step from thinking that it's ok to make up nonsense like the above, to claiming Ahmadinejad said he wants to nuke Israel and piss on the smouldering ashes.

You mean he didn't? How very intolerant of you, of different cognitive styles of apprehending reality.

You must be a pms-addled hand on hip, finger wagging friggin HARPIE playground bully who appears to be stuck old-fashioned dialectical diatribe and thus deplorably incapable of creating new ideas and perceptions.

Why get bogged down in facts and logic? Free your mind! Better living through neurological and cognitive diversity.

[Searcher08]

I'm with you Alice.

Now a Jewish family in Europe can't go anywhere without being spit on by people

It's not a huge step from thinking that it's ok to make up nonsense like the above, to claiming Ahmadinejad said he wants to nuke Israel and piss on the smouldering ashes.

You mean he didn't? How very intolerant of you, of different cognitive styles of apprehending reality.

You must be a pms-addled hand on hip, finger wagging friggin HARPIE playground bully who appears to be stuck old-fashioned dialectical diatribe and thus deplorably incapable of creating new ideas and perceptions.

Why get bogged down in facts and logic? Free your mind! Better living through neurological and cognitive diversity.

Thanks, I brought the popcorn. What next? Ahhh the "withering" sarcasm. How utterly predictable! It is like being back at school "debates" at age 14

Are you going to <spank> people who are not like you, Mrs Romulan?

[AlicetheKurious]

ooooh. In your alternative cognition I'm a spanker, too?




"I DEMAND connectionist exploratory thinking from YOU, NOW!!"

Fascinating. Tell me more about the alternative "me" that exists in your alternative cognitive apprehension of reality.

[barracuda]

After four pages, this thread has finally gotten my interest.

[IanEye]

After four pages, this thread has finally gotten my interest.

this 'page' at least....



thanks Alice, for giving this thread a 'shot'

[KeenInsight]

I will defend your right to exercise your perverse pleasure in calling Jews Nazis, I'm just pointing out that calling people Nazis left and right is not exactly a sign of intellectual maturity, as the original article so neatly illustrates.

Will Fascist suffice, nomo? Or, we could call them evil assholes who have no respect for human life. I'm referring to current U.S. policy and Bush, not Jews or "ZioNazi's." I've entered this entertaining conversation late, so I don't feel like reading every post.

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power” - Benito Mussolini

[Searcher08]

ooooh. In your alternative cognition I'm a spanker, too?




"I DEMAND connectionist exploratory thinking from YOU, NOW!!"

Fascinating. Tell me more about the alternative "me" that exists in your alternative cognitive apprehension of reality.

I have tried to post several times but that picture just so cracks me up.

[nomo]

I want to know NOW-who SPECIFICALLY on this site are you, nomo, orz et al accusing of anti-semitism?

I want names. I want specific citations of the comments, with links.

Meh. For a moderator, you don't seem to be following these discussions all that closely. If you did, you would know who *I* consider an anti-Semite, albeit through no one specific "loose" remark, but through a pattern of posts over the years. You would then also know that in a lot of other cases, I'm willing to see some people as merely getting a bit too excited tossing around inflammatory language, rather than as rabid hate mongers. In all those cases, whenever I advise people to "choose their words wisely", it is meant as friendly advice so as to avoid being grouped with certain unsavory fractions of society, and never as a threat. So rather than focus on some kind of perceived absence of civil discourse, I'd much rather appeal to people's common sense.

So, no, I don't think this board is infested with anti-Semitism. Just a lot of thoughtless language being used from time to time, and I will include myself in that.

[nomo]

Will Fascist suffice, nomo?

That is still a bit too easy.

The following article from this morning's paper is actually a good illustration of what I'm trying to get at, even at a slight tangent:

Bad Words, Overused, Can Lose Their Sting
By CLYDE HABERMAN

The most surprising thing about Sue Simmons’s unbleeped blooper the other night is that anyone in this city even noticed.

You may have read about her unfortunate slip. Ms. Simmons, a news anchor on WNBC-TV, tried to get the attention of her longtime partner, Chuck Scarborough, by asking him, “What are you doing?”

Only she did not realize that they were live on the air. And she didn’t quite say “What are you doing?” She inserted two words between “what” and “are.” One of those words was “the.” Sorry to be coy about the other one, but it is not allowed to be printed here. Rules are rules. If you can’t figure out what it is, you have not been in New York very long — like less than four minutes.

Despite a certain amount of twitter over this incident, it seems that both the republic and Ms. Simmons will survive. “She’ll continue to be on the air,” said a WNBC spokeswoman, Susan Kiel.

The reality is that this vulgar word has been tossed about with such abandon in public for so many years that New Yorkers tend to tune it out. Its endless, and mindless, repetition left them numb long ago. By now, the word is no longer shocking, just tedious.

Through frequent use, “a word like this begins to be less of a curse word,” said Ricardo Otheguy, a sociolinguist at the City University of New York Graduate Center. “The more you use it, the less dirty it is.”

Then, too, he said, the city has so many people for whom English is a second language. The word may sound softer to them than it is. “Swearing in your own language feels like a really dirty thing to do,” Professor Otheguy said. “Swearing in somebody else’s language seems somehow less fraught.”

Add to that the fact that boundaries between public space and private are being erased. Cellphones contribute mightily to that, said another sociolinguist, John V. Singler of New York University. “The range of places where it’s O.K. to use that word has grown enormously,” Professor Singler said. By now, he said, “the real taboo words — and even these depend on who’s saying them — have to do much more with race.”

You routinely hear Wall Street suits use the word at high decibels in the subway. Police officers bounce it casually among one another, no matter who else is around to hear. Teenagers use it all the time. Some people walk around with the word screaming from their T-shirts — an insight, perhaps, into their capacity for self-degradation.

Vice President Dick Cheney invoked the word on the Senate floor, suggesting to Senator Patrick Leahy that he commit an impossible sexual act. Eliot Spitzer, the swaggering former governor, tried to be macho by using it to emphasize his self-image as a “steamroller.”

Rarely do any of these people display a glimmer of the creativity shown by a fellow soldier in my Army days. The jeep he was driving broke down. Looking under the hood, he needed only four words to pronounce the vehicle beyond repair. The first was “the,” followed by the Simmons-Cheney-Spitzer word in its adjectival, noun and verb forms — in that order. It bordered on poetry.

There was nothing poetic this week in the repeated use of the word after the rapper Remy Ma was sentenced in Manhattan to eight years in prison for shooting a woman. Remy Ma’s boyfriend, a fellow performer with the nom de rap of Papoose, was outraged. Maybe he did not fully grasp that it is generally considered unacceptable to shoot people.

When told by court officers to vamoose, Papoose lost control. All along the courthouse corridors, he repeated that tiresome word. T. S. Eliot he wasn’t.

Some New Yorkers, though, are still capable of cringing. A shouting match between two taxi drivers — neither a native English speaker but both graced with a solid command of the familiar word — cost one of them dearly. As reported this week in The New York Post, he was deemed the aggressor, and fined $1,000 and suspended for 30 days by Matthew W. Daus, chairman of the Taxi and Limousine Commission.

Sure, driving a cab is stressful, Mr. Daus said, but decorum must be maintained, especially in a service industry that caters to tourists from places where that word may not be batted around casually. “Drivers are often the first and last face that visitors to our city see,” he said.

Official censure does only so much, though. No power could have prevented a loud argument some years ago between two street guys. Finally, one of them shouted at the other, “I’ve only got two words to say to you.”

Actually, he then said four words. Two of them were sandwiched between “shut” and “up.” You can easily guess what they were. The point is that this man truly thought he was using only two words. That’s a New Yorker.