More Proof Why Yelling "Nazi" Isn't Helpful

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Postby Jeff » Fri May 16, 2008 12:09 pm

I'm backing up sunny on this. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for specifics. And I think the moderators do a great job at a largely thankless task re hate speech.

I agree about thoughtless language. It can round the edges of things that ought to be in sharp definition and create unintended inferences. Not a good thing for this subject.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri May 16, 2008 12:10 pm

Its endless, and mindless, repetition left them numb long ago. By now, the word is no longer shocking, just tedious.

Through frequent use, “a word like this begins to be less of a curse word,” said Ricardo Otheguy, a sociolinguist at the City University of New York Graduate Center. “The more you use it, the less dirty it is.”


The word being "anti-Semite", right? (As used by nomo, for instance.)
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 12:18 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
Its endless, and mindless, repetition left them numb long ago. By now, the word is no longer shocking, just tedious.

Through frequent use, “a word like this begins to be less of a curse word,” said Ricardo Otheguy, a sociolinguist at the City University of New York Graduate Center. “The more you use it, the less dirty it is.”


The word being "anti-Semite", right? (As used by nomo, for instance.)


You're not paying attention. That word is always being used in one specific context, even though you might disagree with me at times.

The word I'm trying to get at has been used against more real or imaginary foes than you can shake a stick at, and as such has lost most of its power.

For your consideration: Health Nazi. Femi-Nazi. Zio-Nazi. And yeah, even Soup Nazi.
Surely you can tell the difference.
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri May 16, 2008 12:35 pm

nomo wrote:

You're not paying attention. That word ["anti-Semite"] is always being used in one specific context, even though you might disagree with me at times.


You're not paying attention, nomo. The word "wolf" is always being used in one specific context, i.e., to indicate a wolf. The word "fire" is also used in one specific context, i.e., to indicate a fire. That's why I feel it's a mistake to yell "wolf" when there isn't a wolf in sight, or to yell "fire" just for the thrill of it. Even though you might disagree with me.
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 12:53 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:You're not paying attention, nomo.


Feh. I'm not calling someone an anti-Semite just because they hate gefillte fish.

By contrast, some people on this board are tossing words like "Nazi" around just because some aspects of Israeli behavior reminds them of that. And in my opinion, when they do that so selectively, and especially towards Jews, it smacks of anti-Semitism, plain and simple.

But like I've said, I'm willing to allow the possibility that these people are merely thoughtless or lacking a more well rounded vocabulary.

Oh, and for someone who hates to engage in a debate with 15-year olds, you do have quite an irritating tendency to emulate one in your own responses lately. What up with that?
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri May 16, 2008 1:16 pm

Oh, and for someone who hates to engage in a debate with 15-year olds, you do have quite an irritating tendency to emulate one in your own responses lately. What up with that?


This from the paragon of maturity who began his dialogue with me by saying "You're not paying attention."

Feh. I'm not calling someone an anti-Semite just because they hate gefillte fish.


Nobody said you were, nomo. Nobody at all. Is this how you demonstrate maturity? Or is this merely how you attempt to simulate it?

You are in fact calling "someone" (i.e. Alice) an anti-Semite simply because she refuses to shut up about Israeli state crimes, or to relativize them by constantly adding examples of how bad other countries are too. In other words, you are cheapening and trivialising and reducing the effectivness of the term "anti-Semite". In so casually and persistently misusing that term, you are doing no service to Jews anywhere. On the contrary.
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 1:26 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:You are in fact calling "someone" (i.e. Alice) an anti-Semite simply because she refuses to shut up about Israeli state crimes


Okay, so you really are not paying attention.

I'm calling her an anti-Semite because she delights in calling Jews Nazis even though the comparison is hopelessly inaccurate and willfully offensive, because she suggests that every Jew who doesn't speak out is responsible for the horrors in Palestine, and because on more than one occasion has hinted that American politics is controlled by Jews.

And for all I know, she hates gefillte fish, too. But then again, so do I.
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Postby Searcher08 » Fri May 16, 2008 1:31 pm

nomo wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:You are in fact calling "someone" (i.e. Alice) an anti-Semite simply because she refuses to shut up about Israeli state crimes


Okay, so you really are not paying attention.

I'm calling her an anti-Semite because she delights in calling Jews Nazis even though the comparison is hopelessly inaccurate and willfully offensive, because she suggests that every Jew who doesn't speak out is responsible for the horrors in Palestine, and because on more than one occasion has hinted that American politics is controlled by Jews.

And for all I know, she hates gefillte fish, too. But then again, so do I.


Please provide a link to where Alice calls Jews Nazis.
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 1:32 pm

Searcher08 wrote:Please provide a link to where Alice calls Jews Nazis.


What part of "Zio-Nazi" do you not understand?
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Postby Searcher08 » Fri May 16, 2008 1:44 pm

nomo wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:Please provide a link to where Alice calls Jews Nazis.


What part of "Zio-Nazi" do you not understand?


Please point a link to where Alice calls Jews Nazis.

Just to remind you:

Jeff wrote:I'm backing up sunny on this. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for specifics. And I think the moderators do a great job at a largely thankless task re hate speech.

I agree about thoughtless language. It can round the edges of things that ought to be in sharp definition and create unintended inferences. Not a good thing for this subject.
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 1:54 pm

Searcher08 wrote:Please point a link to where Alice calls Jews Nazis.


With all due respect: bugger off.

She can barely post a single item without referring to Zio-Nazis. And just to remind you: "Zio-Nazi" is a slimeball's way of calling Jews Nazis while hiding behind a figleaf saying, "but I said Zionists, not Jews." At least the Stormfronters aren't such weasels about it.

It's freaking obvious what is meant by that term, and shame on you for pretending not to know it.
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Postby Searcher08 » Fri May 16, 2008 2:02 pm

nomo wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:Please point a link to where Alice calls Jews Nazis.


With all due respect: bugger off.

She can barely post a single item without referring to Zio-Nazis. And just to remind you: "Zio-Nazi" is a slimeball's way of calling Jews Nazis while hiding behind a figleaf saying, "but I said Zionists, not Jews." At least the Stormfronters aren't such weasels about it.

It's freaking obvious what is meant by that term, and shame on you for pretending not to know it.


Please point a link yo where Alice called Jews Nazis.
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 2:06 pm

:roll:

I think I've made my point clear.

If you'd rather play silly games instead of engaging it, be my guest.
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Postby Eldritch » Fri May 16, 2008 2:15 pm

If anyone needs to "bugger off," it would be the guy who can't even adequately shore up the single allegation he makes against others—even though he makes it over and over and over.
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Postby nomo » Fri May 16, 2008 2:22 pm

Eldritch wrote:If anyone needs to "bugger off," it would be the guy who can't even adequately shore up the single allegation he makes against others—even though he makes it over and over and over.


From upthread:
nomo wrote:I'm calling her an anti-Semite because she delights in calling Jews Nazis even though the comparison is hopelessly inaccurate and willfully offensive, because she suggests that every Jew who doesn't speak out is responsible for the horrors in Palestine, and because on more than one occasion has hinted that American politics is controlled by Jews.


This whole "gimme a single link" or "I said Zionists not Jews" is just disingenuous, as I've also explained above.

So just to recap for the 15-year olds: Zio-Nazi is an anti-Semitic slur.

Plenty of links all over for that.
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