The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

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The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby American Dream » Wed May 16, 2012 2:27 pm

http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2012/04 ... elieve-it/

The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

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I remember when I first tripped over David Icke at the bookstore. It was a truly terrifying experience.

Like most demagogues, Icke mixes in a bit of truth with his fiction. For example, George Washington is totally posed as Baphomet in his Masonic museum statue. Does that make him the leader of some kind of Satanic conspiracy? No. It makes him a member of some weird frat for the elite who like giving each other daps whenever possible.

At the same time, I once explained the reptilian theory to a friend of mine.

“Who’s David Icke?”

“Some weird British writer who thinks that Al Gore is a shape-shifting, blood-sucking reptile.”

“How is he not?”

I was stumped there.

But the metaphor is problematic for a number of reasons, not least of all that it isn’t true. It’s emblematic of everything that’s wrong with the world of “conspiracy theory.”

Think about it for a second: An untestable theory — with no small degree of racist and antisemitic undertones — consumes too much digital ink and YouTube bandwidth. If you or a friend are spending more than ten seconds throughout a lifetime looking at pictures of the Bush family shape-shifting to their lower fourth dimensional forms, it might be time for an intervention.

Ditto on turquoise track suits.


Reptilian Theory – Lack of Logic

The reptiles are a sort of conspiratorial Godwin’s. Any time someone brings up the reptilian theory, the conversation is over. Why? Because any untestable theory is a total fnord (to use a light and playful conspiracy model that I prefer to the more dire and apocalyptic writings of Icke).

It literally has nothing in the way of information content for the purposes of useful discussion.

The same is true of anything that cannot be proven incorrect. This isn’t conspiracy theory, it’s science. For example, you can’t prove that the entire universe wasn’t created ten seconds ago by a gnome living in the center of the sun who implanted memories in everyone’s head to make them think that the universe was billions of years old. But nor do you have any reason to think that.

It’s the argument that underpins certain forms of atheism, but you don’t have to be an atheist to apply it to the realm of conspiracy theory.

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Apply the Scientific Method

If conspiracy theory is to be taken seriously, it needs to begin applying the scientific method to the social science of watching for criminal conspiracies in high levels of power. Note that I said “criminal conspiracies.”

This is part of being more scientific about how we look at the topic. A “conspiracy” carries connotations of Ron Paul Survival Newsletter issues, reptilians and bizarre notions that the World Trade Centers were destroyed by lasers positioned on the moon.

On the other hand, a “criminal conspiracy” is something that nearly everyone understands: A group of people get together and plan a craft a play to do a crime. What is a crime? Well, that’s a long list.

The point is that you’re actually having a discussion about bodies in space-time doing things when you begin reframing the question. Arguments about whether or not there “are” or “are not” reptilian humanoids from the lower fourth dimension necessarily degenerates into inanity, because the statement can be neither proven nor disproven.

Any arguments you come up with against the idea of reptiles just go down the black hole, increasing its size without shedding any more light on the topic than you had before.

In short, don’t engage. It’s like trying to teach a card trick to a dog.



*****
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Nicholas Pell is a recovering conspiracy theorist, radical cynic and freelance writer based out of Hollywood, CA.
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby 8bitagent » Wed May 16, 2012 3:37 pm

My only problem is that a lot of people say "Reptillian" is also thrown around or code for anti Semitic beliefs. Is this true?
I always, always hear Icke conflated with Anti Jewry and I want to know what the real story is. As I have read some of his books(simply for food for thought)
and checked out a number of his interviews or talks online over the years. I think when he's talking about the manipulation of thought processes, wars, etc he's pretty spot on.

"Reptillian" I guess can be metaphor for anything. But I don't get along well with paranoid Godlikeproduction/Icke/C2C type folks
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby American Dream » Wed May 16, 2012 4:01 pm

8bitagent wrote:My only problem is that a lot of people say "Reptillian" is also thrown around or code for anti Semitic beliefs. Is this true?
I always, always hear Icke conflated with Anti Jewry and I want to know what the real story is. As I have read some of his books(simply for food for thought)
and checked out a number of his interviews or talks online over the years. I think when he's talking about the manipulation of thought processes, wars, etc he's pretty spot on.

"Reptillian" I guess can be metaphor for anything. But I don't get along well with paranoid Godlikeproduction/Icke/C2C type folks

The author calls the Reptilian model:
An untestable theorywith no small degree of racist and antisemitic undertones

Also the author says:
Like most demagogues, Icke mixes in a bit of truth with his fiction.


Wrestling with the assertion "Reptilian=Jew", (never made here) would be in this context to wrestle with a straw man,,,
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby 8bitagent » Wed May 16, 2012 4:20 pm

American Dream wrote:
8bitagent wrote:My only problem is that a lot of people say "Reptillian" is also thrown around or code for anti Semitic beliefs. Is this true?
I always, always hear Icke conflated with Anti Jewry and I want to know what the real story is. As I have read some of his books(simply for food for thought)
and checked out a number of his interviews or talks online over the years. I think when he's talking about the manipulation of thought processes, wars, etc he's pretty spot on.

"Reptillian" I guess can be metaphor for anything. But I don't get along well with paranoid Godlikeproduction/Icke/C2C type folks

The author calls the Reptilian model:
An untestable theorywith no small degree of racist and antisemitic undertones

Also the author says:
Like most demagogues, Icke mixes in a bit of truth with his fiction.


Wrestling with the assertion "Reptilian=Jew", (never made here) would be in this context to wrestle with a straw man,,,


I agree, I'm just wondering if Icke has in fact made statements against Jewish people or just the occasional remark about Zionism(tho many use "Zionism" continually as a kind of shield for strongly anti Semitic viewpoints)
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed May 16, 2012 4:22 pm

Recent (and locked) Icke Superthread: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... =8&t=34141
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed May 16, 2012 4:26 pm

quit pickin at the scab....we're not healed yet

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Last edited by seemslikeadream on Wed May 16, 2012 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Elihu » Wed May 16, 2012 4:31 pm

Crash was right--
Nuke had a gift.

NUKE IN STREET CLOTHES IN THE DUGOUT of an empty stadium.
50,000 seats. Slick. Awesome. He's being interviewed by a
BIG LEAGUE REPORTER, who has a small tape deck and has stuck a
mike in Nuke's face.

NUKE
(like a big leaguer)
Y'know, I'm just happy to be here
and hope I can help the ballclub. I
just want to give it my best shot
and good Lord willing, things'll
work out... gotta play 'em one day
at a time, Y'know...

THE BIG LEAGUE REPORTER nods attentively as Nuke knowingly
delivers the clichés like a veteran.

NUKE
Raye Anne, right?
That's a beautiful name.

ls that Greek?
lt's a beautiful name.

There's a great song by Motley Crue.
Do you know it?

"Raye Anne, she's a stay in."

Anyway, a good friend of mine
used to say...

"This is a very simple game.

You throw the ball, you catch
the ball, you hit the ball.

Sometimes you win,
sometimes you lose.

Sometimes it rains."

Think about that for a while.
Stupid Evil vs Regular Evil....
Don't know who to root for in that war.
vince :
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Searcher08 » Wed May 16, 2012 4:39 pm

'Reptiles from the sky' feature in many stories, mythologies and native creation histories from around the world.

For example: Quetzalcoatl from the pre-Aztec culture, the Nagas from India, the Winged Dragons from Chinese, and Zulu culture from Southern Africa.

From the Wiki entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Some Mormon scholars believe that Quetzalcoatl, who has been described as a white, bearded god who came from the sky and promised to return, was actually Jesus Christ. According to the Book of Mormon, Jesus visited the American natives after his resurrection.[13]

Latter-day Saint President John Taylor wrote:

The story of the life of the Mexican divinity, Quetzalcoatl, closely resembles that of the Savior; so closely, indeed, that we can come to no other conclusion than that Quetzalcoatl and Christ are the same being. But the history of the former has been handed down to us through an impure Lamanitish source.[14]

These ideas were adapted by science fiction author and Mormon Orson Scott Card in his story America.
New Age

Various theories about Quetzalcoatl are popular in the New Age movement, especially since the publication of Tony Shearer's 1971 book "Lord of the dawn: Quetzalcoatl and the Tree of Life" republished also under the title "Lord of the dawn: Quetzalcoatl, the plumed serpent of Mexico."
Other theories

The British author Graham Hancock published a controversial theory that Quetzalcoatl is a being that is shared across many cultures including Egyptian, Aztec, Mayan and Olmec. The stories of a bearded white man bringing "knowledge" are alleged to be common, and sprouting from a central source or "master" culture. (Source: Fingerprints of the Gods, Graham Hancock, 1995)


Quetzalcoatl was a bringer of knowledge, the inventor of books, and associated with the planet Venus.
The double symbolism used in its name is considered allegoric to the dual nature of the deity, where being feathered represents its divine nature or ability to fly to reach the skies and being a serpent represents its human nature or ability to creep on the ground among other animals of the Earth, a dualism very common in Mesoamerican deities. [1]



Nagas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81ga
From Hindu and Buddhist culture:

Mahabharata

In the great epic Mahabharata, the depiction of Nagas tends toward the negative, and they are portrayed as the deserving victims of the snake sacrifice and of predation by the eagle-king Garuda. The epic calls them "persecutors of all creatures", and tells us "the snakes were of virulent poison, great prowess and excess of strength, and ever bent on biting other creatures" (Book I: Adi Parva, Section 20). At the same time, nagas are important players in many of the events narrated in the epic, frequently no more evil nor deceitful than the other protagonists, and sometimes on the side of good.

The epic frequently characterizes Nagas as having a mixture of human and serpent-like traits. Sometimes it characterizes them as having human traits at one time, and as having serpent-like traits at another. For example, the story of how the Naga prince Sesha came to hold the world on his head begins with a scene in which he appears as a dedicated human ascetic, "with knotted hair, clad in rags, and his flesh, skin, and sinews dried up owing to the hard penances he was practising." Brahma is pleased with Shesha, and entrusts him with the duty of carrying the world. At that point in the story, Shesha begins to exhibit the attributes of a serpent. He enters into a hole in the Earth and slithers all the way to bottom, where he then loads the Earth onto his head. (Book I: Adi Parva, Section 36.)


From Zulu culture, Credo Mutwa is where AFAIK Icke first came across the idea of a reptile race interfering in human affairs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credo_Mutwa

Early life

His father was a widower with three surviving children when he met his mother. His father was a builder and a Christian and his mother was a young Zulu girl. Caught between Catholic missionaries on one hand, and a stubborn old Zulu warrior, Credo's maternal grandfather, his parents had no choice but to separate. Credo Mutwa was born out of wedlock which caused a great scandal in the village and his mother was thrown out by her father. Later he was taken in by one of his aunts.

He was subsequently raised by his father's brother and was taken to the South Coast of Natal, near the northern bank of the Mkomazi River. He did not attend school until he was 14 years old. In 1935 his father found a building job in the old Transvaal province and the whole family relocated to where he was building. In 1937 he experienced a great shock and trauma when he was seized and sodomized by a gang of mineworkers outside a mine compound.[3] After this he was ill for a long time.

Where Christian doctors had failed, his grandfather, a man whom his father despised as a heathen and demon worshipper, helped him back to health. At this point Credo began to question many of the things about his people the missionaries would have them believe. "Were we Africans really a race of primitives who possessed no knowledge at all before the white man came to Africa?" he asked himself. His grandfather instilled in him the belief that his illness was a sacred sign that he was to become a shaman, a healer. He underwent initiation from one of his grandfather's daughters, young sangoma named Myrna.[1]

Credo Mutwa was a guest in one episode (Day of the Zulu) of a famous series (Secrets of the Dead) from an established producer (PBS).[4]
Bibliography: works by Credo Mutwa

Indaba, My Children (1964), ISBN 0-8021-3604-4, 1st American ed edition (March 1999)
Zulu Shaman: Dreams, Prophecies, and Mysteries ISBN 0-89281-129-3, 2nd edition (10 October 2003)
Songs of the Stars ISBN 1-886449-01-5, 1st edition (May 2000)
Africa Is My Witness, Blue Crane Books, Johannesburg 1966, ISBN unknown
The Reptilian Agenda with David Icke and Credo Mutwa - the complete series.
My People, the Writings of a Zulu Witch-Doctor (Penguin Books, 1977)[2] ISBN 0-14-003210-X

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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby American Dream » Wed May 16, 2012 4:43 pm

The author clearly has a point:

Arguments about whether or not there “are” or “are not” reptilian humanoids from the lower fourth dimension necessarily degenerates into inanity, because the statement can be neither proven nor disproven.
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Wed May 16, 2012 5:06 pm

American Dream wrote:The author clearly has a point:

Arguments about whether or not there “are” or “are not” reptilian humanoids from the lower fourth dimension necessarily degenerates into inanity, because the statement can be neither proven nor disproven.


The verification principle itself is a metaphysical proposition which can be neither proven nor disproven.
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Wed May 16, 2012 5:11 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:The verification principle itself is a metaphysical proposition which can be neither proven nor disproven.


...and the Meta Prize for 2012 goes to...

:thumbsup :praybow
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Searcher08 » Wed May 16, 2012 5:15 pm

American Dream wrote:The author clearly has a point:

Arguments about whether or not there “are” or “are not” reptilian humanoids from the lower fourth dimension necessarily degenerates into inanity, because the statement can be neither proven nor disproven.


This paragraph is based on a misconception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems
The author of the piece seems to have no understanding of logic post-Godel and is also unclear on the difference between truth and provability.

The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an "effective procedure" (e.g., a computer program, but it could be any sort of algorithm) is capable of proving all truths about the relations of the natural numbers (arithmetic). For any such system, there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. The second incompleteness theorem, a corollary of the first, shows that such a system cannot demonstrate its own consistency.

There is no logical connection between 'statements which are unprovable' and inanity.
Statement which are true, but unprovable are frequently encountered in formal logical systems.


On a wider note, I think that we had actually got to an interesting point regarding Icke before the thread was locked.
I have now got some of his books and a brief overview seems to indicate that some are very heavily indexed / sourced.
HOWEVER
He then seems to make just one series of connections between the data - as though he sees a pattern in a flash - and then says 'that is what it is'

I think there could be a really interesting process to
go through some of what he puts forward
track back to his sources,
test them and
then create MULTIPLE rather than one single explanation.
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Pierre d'Achoppement » Wed May 16, 2012 5:18 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:
Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:The verification principle itself is a metaphysical proposition which can be neither proven nor disproven.


...and the Meta Prize for 2012 goes to...

:thumbsup :praybow


Thanks, I read it in a book. I'm not even sure it makes sense.

Here's a 2hr+ video debunking David Icke from a christian perspective:



He also has one on Zeitgeist and is working on one on History Channel's Ancient Aliens.
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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby American Dream » Wed May 16, 2012 5:29 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:
Here's a 2hr+ video debunking David Icke from a christian perspective:

He also has one on Zeitgeist and is working on one on History Channel's Ancient Aliens.

OK, but "enemy of my enemy" and all that...


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Re: The Odd Reptilian Theory and The People That Believe It

Postby Simulist » Wed May 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:Here's a 2hr+ video debunking David Icke from a christian perspective...

Hmm. If it were a truly "Christian perspective," he might try to "debunk" his own holey (hole-filled, not holy) beliefs, before debunking those of others — no matter how ridiculous theirs may seem to him (and in fact are).

Otherwise it's like a fat guy pointing the finger at another fat guy, and saying, "Damn! You're fat."
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