Dangerous Enemies

by **hmm** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:54 am

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/194...ition_Plan</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>By 1947, about 6.5% of the land of Palestine was owned by Jewish individuals and interests.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Arab leadership opposed the plan, arguing that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). They criticised the amount and quality of land given to Israel. The Jews had been offered 55% percent of the land when they owned 6.5% of it.<hr></blockquote> <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Map_of_Jewish_settlements_in_Palestine_in_1947.png" style="border:0;"/><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png/306px-UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png" style="border:0;"/> The emperor has no clothes,the palestinians have no home.

by **hmm** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:25 am

<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt/stories/s556021.htm">www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8...556021.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Stephen Crittenden: John, what is the evidence precisely? John Loftus: Well, some staggering evidence. The chief money launderer is a professor named Sami al-Arian, He was actually cheeky enough to take home movies of all his terrorist conventions, and the FBI seized Sami’s home movies and I have copies. I’m going to be putting them up on my website www.john-loftus.com so people can see for themselves exactly what the evidence is. Stephen Crittenden: I don’t quite understand what the connection is with a group of charities in the United States, given that the key organisations that you say were being funded were organisations active in the Middle East.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/sugg10252005.html">www.counterpunch.org/sugg10252005.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>More important, the top FBI counterterrorism chief told me Al-Arian had not committed any federal crimes, and the lead federal prosecutor in the case also said there was no evidence to prosecute. <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.freesamialarian.com/media/media59b.htm">www.freesamialarian.com/m...dia59b.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Miami Herald August 6, 2004 Judge's Ruling a Major Setback for Prosecution in Terrorism Case By Jay Weaver A federal judge has made the government's terrorism case against a fired University of South Florida professor more difficult for prosecutors, ruling they must show his financing of a Palestinian charity group went specifically for murderous attacks on Israelis. U.S. District Judge James S. Moody Jr. said Wednesday in Tampa that he has ''grave concerns about the constitutionality'' of the material-support law used by prosecutors in the indictment of former professor Sami al-Arian and three other defendants.<hr></blockquote>

by **Qutb** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:44 am

FWIW, Indira Singh says al-Arian is connected to the Ptech milieu. Ptech was also exonerated by the White House - on the very same day it was raided by the FBI... Slimmouse - you didn't say anything about "ethnicity", fair enough, but you called them "deranged Zionist creatures". I pointed out that two of the persons/families you mentioned aren't "Zionist creatures".

by **slimmouse** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:23 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Slimmouse - you didn't say anything about "ethnicity", fair enough, but you called them "deranged Zionist creatures". I pointed out that two of the persons/families you mentioned aren't "Zionist creatures<hr></blockquote> And how exactly, would you define ANYONE who supports the current Israeli regime, and her Likudnic Govnts aspirations ? Be that Bible belt fundamentamentalists, Global multicorporates who are operating under the Pseudo democratisation mask in order to corporatise the middle East, or anyone else for that matter, who seem to enjoy sticking their nose, troops, Corporate machine and weaponry where few appear to want it ? The modern face of Zionism has nothing whatsoever to with race, ethnicity or anything else. That is simply the current banner of convenience being waved by the corporate policy makers, warmongers, and thinktankers. I hold all those named earlier as directly complicit in this theft, fraud, and murder. And stuck in the middle as always are the duped, the conned, the poor and the defenceless - be they the average, Arab, Israeli, Jew, muslim, christian, or any other denomination you care to name.

by **Qutb** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:01 pm

Slimmouse - don't take this the wrong way, I mean it well. I think it would be a good idea for you to try and expand your horizon somewhat. There's no better way of doing that than to read - and prefereably, to read books that you won't find in the Blackpool Conspiracy Centre. If you get all your ideas about international politics from David Icke and Henry Makow, there's no wonder your outlook gets skewed and one-sided. I would recommend a visit to your local library and perhaps to pick up a few "mainstream" books on the history of Zionism and the history of Israel. "Zionism" as a synonym for the corporatization of the world is just beyond the pale. I guess that's connected with your deranged ideas about "intl' bankers" being "Zionists", or whatever. Incidentally, this is exactly the same rhetoric as neo-Nazis and Islamists use. Maybe you should pick up a few books on corporate/financial globalization and intl' banking as well, if you visit the library. BTW, which Rockefeller has made himself known as a proud friend of Israel?

by **hmm** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:02 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>FWIW, Indira Singh says al-Arian is connected to the Ptech milieu. Ptech was also exonerated by the White House - on the very same day it was raided by the FBI...<hr></blockquote> i myself cant find any quote of Indira Singh with firsthand knowledge of al-Arian. i can find alot of hearsay and innuendo in articles that mention both Singh and al-Arian, most of which fits in with the establishment arab/muslim conspiracy theory. I hope you understand why i am suspicious of that. FWIW indeed.

by **slimmouse** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:31 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>"Zionism" as a synonym for the corporatization of the world is just beyond the pale.<hr></blockquote> Who said it was so ? What I said was thats the latest banner , along with Democratisation and liberation, behind which the whole bigger plan is unfolding - Indeed, In my uninformed view of the world, I can now see it as being planned that way. It sure as hell as panned out like that whichever way you dress it. But no doubt, when dealing with such a situation, you would argue that it all just panned out that way by chance. There never was a grand plan. Strange in that case, how many people have made incredibly accurate predictions huh ? As for my reading ? With the greatest respect, I should imagine ive possibly forgotten more about the subject than most people know. Perhaps you might begin your journey meanwhile with The Iron Wall, by Avi Schlaim. Compare that to stuff like From time immemorial, and "The case for Israel " by Harvard "academic" Alan Dershowitz, and then try to argue the case for accepted academia. You see, its all well and good for academics to take us down any number of side roads and alleys on the road to enlightenment. Its rather similar to the controlled demolition thread, which you appear prepared to defend with your last breath. Sometimes, it really isnt that complicated. All you need to do , is to stand back, and take a good look with your own eyes at the world stage today. It doesnt take any kind of Phd type research, or 12 separate books to understand it. Rather, a simple modicum of common sense. How do I know ? Ive done both TYVM. Ive got my history degree, and my PGCE. And you wanna know something else ? Rather like Einstein said, about the only thing that ever got in the way of my learning was my education. In other words, Ive had to start again. Hey guess who also said that one of his more recent peices ? Henry effing Makow. Guess who after all my months of volumes of books and papers have proved the most accurate ? The madmen. Icke and Makow. Funny how those who seem to have it called the closest are described by "official" academia as Nutty as a fruitcake. Why do you think that might be ? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> What I actually said meanwhile, was that Zionism is one foil behind which the overall mechanics and methods of Corporate fascism are hidiing. Rockerfeller meanwhile as a friend of Israel ? I dont know. Heres what I do know. Standard Oil, or is that Amoco these days are all over the ME, along with Halliburton, Bechtel, and the other Usual suspects. The "war on terror" - David Frum - is amongs other things about Oil, and hey, even on the admission of leading Neo Nazis is also about eliminating Israels enemies whilst theyre at it ? Perhaps I should introduce another leading player, and a couple of quotes from Brzezinskwis "Grand Chessboard" . Or perhaps you would like a piece of the PNAC papers ? Do I really need to bother ? Do all of the above meet in a neat ring in the ME ?have all of the above not got something in common in the world scene as it currently stands ? Youre a bright lad. Have a look at a map and figure it out. Or do you believe were out there "liberatin" folks ? I know its very simple, but Perhaps you can give me your interpretation of the situation ? Or do you not have a 38 page explanation that can do any better ? Whats the saying ? Follow the money. Well Follow it, and then report back to me lol. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 11/24/05 11:37 am

by **Dreams End** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:35 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>"I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."2<hr></blockquote> Guess who? I'll give you a hint...the Jews were really LIZARDS!!!!!!!

by ir » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:15 pm

Zionism" as a synonym for the corporatization of the world is just beyond the pale. didn't it start being used this way since the Evangelical Christians of America started referring to their messianic belief as "Zionism" ? just curious...

by **Qutb** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:26 pm

No, it has basically been used that way since Hitler.

by **Dreams End** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:42 pm

The evangelicals are "zionist" only in the sense that they want Israel to be in a certain kind of "retro" mode so the second coming can begin. Has nothing to do with corporatization. No one is responding to the information I posted, which is rather typical when Zionism comes up. It suggests that the British did, of course, make a deal (a very VAGUE) deal with Zionist Jews...and then as soon as the Jews in Israel won independence, the British supported all kinds of fascist elements from the Arab countries to begin the attempt to destroy it. I'm sure Israel is quite aware of these games and I suppose it is U.S. money that keeps them from going public about all the "Muslim Brotherhood" type operations in the region. This could easily explain some of the Mossad activity in the days up to and including 9/11. I hate to say it, but it could even explain the "celebrating" Israelis. If they watched some of the same pseudo-Islamic fascists who the US and Britain have funded for decades attacking the hand that feeds them, maybe they just thought justice had been served. And despite that attitude, it has been documented that Israel and Mossad did make attempts to warn US officials about the attack. Kinda pointless, because it was probably clear to Mossad that the US already knew. A lot of games...and surely a lot of dirty wars and dirty tricks on all sides. The real issue is why people on this board focus on Zionism as CENTRAl to these plots and suggest that Israel is the controlling force behind all of this. That so incredibly distorts the power relations between the two countries as to be truly irrational. Which, of course, it is. The only way this could work, of course, is if a powerful group of American Jews were secretly pulling the strings here. And this is exactly what is claimed by these theories. That gets into that timetested technique of "counting Jews" to prove the conspiracy. And why people are so unashamed to use the exact same reasoning used by Hitler when making arguments on this board is beyond me. The entire theory that Jews ran the world, created Communism and sought to undermine German autonomy was central to Hitler's thinking. You can replace "jews" with Zionists if you want, but the lack of intellectual rigor is the same, setting aside arguments about labels for the moment. For those confused by this debate, I should point out that many anti-semitic theorists got a tad more sophisticated in the last few decades. The theories now are often not about "Jews" per se, but a "subgroup" that secretly controls the Jews (Kazars, perhaps), or Jewish "Luciferians" or a joint Jewish-Masonic alliance and allegations that the Jews took control of the British monarchy and then, through blackmail and intermarriage have run the show ever since. These new theories allow for "good jews". The theories get so broad in whom they implicate that they become unfalsifiable. You simply can't "disprove" them. There'll always be some Jew or Zionist who married somebody or was somebody's banker or whatever. Zionism, from my perspective, was a group of Jews who despaired of ever living in peace in any country not their own. History is on their side in that argument, whatever you think of the decision to make Israel a Jewish homeland. And I mean all of history, not just WW2. One might also question the very structures that allowed Britain to "grant" anything to anyone. However, if you start questioning THAT little bit of imperial largesse, then you get into deeper (and far more relevant) issues of colonialism and imperialism. For it is that very ideology that some countries, due to wealth and military might can carve up entire continents in ways that suit them. Go research, for example, how the "country" of Kuwait was created. This idea of "supporting" colonies, then withdrawing under fire and undermining the new rulers (or creating puppet rulers) is not a new one. Didn't begin with Israel. Won't end there, either.

by **Qutb** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:00 pm

But DE, didn't you read that recent post by someone about how the Khazars, after having been driven out of their land Khazaria by the valiant Christian Russians and Byzantians, so hated the Christians that they planned to take over the world some day and punish the Christians. For that purpose, they created international banking, communism, Zionism, neo-Conservatism and the French revolution. They inculcated their hatred of the Christians in the Jewish communities of Eastern Europe and used the Jews as pawns in their game (so you see, most Jews are actually innocent, so that proves it's not anti-Semitism, though of course it's difficualt to say exactly which Jews are evil satanic Khazars and which are just Jews). There's this guy who's made audio tapes where he talks about it, so it must be true.

by **slimmouse** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:09 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>(so you see, most Jews are actually innocent, so that proves it's not anti-Semitism, though of course it's difficualt to say exactly which Jews are evil satanic Khazars and which are just Jews).<hr></blockquote> It isnt really that difficult. Youve just got to use common sense. But first of course, you do need to be prepared to look at it and admit that this is the way it is, otherwise you end up defending Satanic Nazis, and appear to some of us almost as defenders of the 4th reich. Are you a defender of 4th reich fascism ? A defender of Nazism in action ? Speak now, or forever hold your peices. I know thats difficult, with the ever present threat of "Anti semite" hanging over your every word. How Ironic, when you look at who suffers as always. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 11/25/05 3:12 pm

by **Dreams End** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:24 pm

yeah...that's about what this argument gets down to. Trying to expose anti-Semitism is equated to supporting Nazis. That has got to win an award for the single stupidest post very put on this board. Congratulations.

by ir » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:34 pm

of theory about a small group of bad Jews (khazars or masonic-Jewish alliance), probably came from Israel...(this is how some of the citizens feel about those who govern us). Of course this is as true as with regards to any other of the countries discussed here, namely, ruled by a small elite that conspires against the populace. I see no difference between the Rockeffeler threads and Khazar/Masonic elites among the Jews. The only difference is the dispropotionate discussion on Jews, but then Jews are disproportionately represented in various powerful places, for better and worse. ---- Trouble starts when these political analysis turn into racist narrative, like that last paragraph DE quoted about the Jews being responsible to WW1, WW2, and Communist revolution and what not. he doesn't say that certain Jews were among the elites who control so and so, but it becomes only Jews and ALL of them. I think many none-Zionists and Anti-Zionist groups in Israel would have a hard time with the advocacy of the ZIonist movement as "people who had enough of persecution and decided to leave". This was the beginning of the story but not how it unfolded, specifically with respect to the ideological struggles among the leaders. The victory of "Political Zionism" over the other groups is not acceptable by many jews and even ZIonists. A good argument against the "political zionist" movement is what we witness now, here in this thread and elsewhere. While I strongly believe Jews had the RIGHT to settle in Palestine anytime anywhere, and even more so than say, crusaders from Europe, the decision-making process once there was a body politic here, was relying too heavily, I think, on military solutions, aggression, racist indoctrination, secularisation of JEwish identity, and a none democratic process,etc. etc. The actual leadership of the JEwish community in Palestine made some very bad judgement calls, to say the least, and the result is here to be seen. For instance, 1956 war...no need to get into it now, was a scam, and if ISrael withdrew from all territories seized in 1967 immediately after cease fire agreements...ahh...wouldn't most of this thread be redundant ?

Dangerous Enemies

Re: The Emperor has no clothes

Re: Loftus claims many things

Re: Loftus claims many things

Re: Loftus claims many things

Re: Loftus claims many things

Re: Loftus claims many things and so does Indira Singh

Re: Loftus claims many things

Re: Loftus claims many things

zionism

Re: zionism

Re: zionism

Re: zionism

Re: zionism

Re: zionism

that last bit

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