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Re: Re:Jeff

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:24 pm

Threads have been sent here other than those you mentioned, for reasons I mentioned.<br><br>I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of the Fire Pit. You call it a "banning." No, it's not. It's another board, one in which flame wars can be waged without consuming all the oxygen in General Discussion. I lock threads very rarely, and you can see which ones they are.<br><br>Also, the thread was not moved on account of your post alone, but because of how the thread had degenerated following your post.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Re:Jeff

Postby proldic » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:48 pm

Funny how you say the thread "degenerated following my post", as if by bringing up this historical truth [of Masonic and Jew Con being intertwined and pushed by the elites] and then using fourthbase [the dude who happened to originate the post btw] as an example of someone who is drawn to both, and how that says something, that somehow warranted his insane reaction, which is what degenerated the post, as another poster even commented on.<br> <br>Again, for all the reasons I've already stated you are really holding a thin reed here. Why do that? I held out quietly beyond my initial response, before he asked repeatedly for another response. <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>He</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> was the one who went beyond the "normal" discourse, not me. <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>He</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> was the one who called for banning. Everybody thinks everybody else is slandering them. You don't say boo. Nor should you. Because you have judged my words as an "egregious"? But I believe them, they are not disingenuous, they are based on posts right there for you to see, if you wanted to draw the conclusions I do.<br><br>Why would you wish to kill this truth? He <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>is</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> a person drawn to that. Just look at his posts. Maybe he has a "nuanced" view that denies the implications of the fact that he jumps in with the words I quoted in the discussions about Israel and Jews and takes the side and is backed up by outright red-herring spreaders that you allow to troll on this board all day long. In the interest of free speech, my ass. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: unapologetic

Postby AnnaLivia » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:00 pm

Ya know…it’d serve some of you right if Proldic and Dreams End and Qutb, too…left this place and left you all in the fucking dark you say you’re trying to find your way out of.<br><br>I will never ‘til the day I die, understand the animosity that’s been hurled at the very people who valued this board so much they repeatedly tried to battle the nazis, the nazi lies, and the nazi apologists off of here (while many stand silent), so good discussions could be conducted and unvarnished truth can be got at. Yet, as they have come closer and closer…through RIGOROUS INTUITION…and RESEARCH they have provided us with so generously…to exposing the biggest lies and the deepest machinations, and proposing ideas and actions, they have been jabbed at and attacked and their time has been wasted for them.<br><br>The best minds in this place, bringing the most important issues to real light, and what reward are these teachers getting?<br><br>They’re supposed to defend themselves while 4B cries and throws his crayons across the floor, and slimmouse sidles on up like he always does to anybody he can use to slip a little more of that “message of his” across the threshold.<br><br>and the chorus sings "play nice with the nazis"<br><br>And Jeff, maybe 4B didn’t really mean to threaten Proldic and P did perceive an “actual” threat where there was none, but I disagree strongly that Proldic “went nuclear”. read his words. 4B has got no complaint, and has obviously missed all the facts about fascism put up here lately. The guy acts like he’s paying no attention at all.<br><br>If it’s about unlearning what isn’t true…if it’s about knowing not so much the answers but what questions to ask, then this board owes Proldic and DE in particular, a lot better treatment and a lot more respect than they ever get around here. I frequently wonder why they bother with us, but I sure hope they’ll both always share their important finds and opinions. I’M LISTENING, GUYS. I’m weighing the evidence. I’m reading. I’m thinking. And I’m learning. And chewing on how new evidence and new perspectives gets incorporated into PLANS.<br><br>Thanks ever to Proldic, DE, and Qutb. I wish I could pay you guys proper tribute for what your teachings are worth to me.<br><br>Namaste,<br>AnnaLivia<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: unapologetic

Postby Col Quisp » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:08 pm

I agree with Annalivia <p></p><i></i>
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Re: unapologetic

Postby scollon » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:13 pm

Proldic and Dreams End and Qutb<br><br>You mean these are three seperate people, I don't believe it. They would just grow other heads and come back if they left anyway. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: unapologetic

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:50 pm

FourthBase wrote in the thread:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"he can point to a nexus of Freemason/Anti-semite paranoia all he wants. It was him bringing ME into the shitstorm via lies and distortions that started the flaming, and I regret lashing out, but I had every right to be upset."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>proldic, the examples you cited to support your insinuation that FourthBase is "drawn to Jewish power theory and Zionist conspiracy" do not persuade me. And until you can find something better, I think FourthBase was entitled to be upset. Heck, I'm not particularly thrilled about the mild insinuations you're now throwing at me. ("Leave it to old Proldic to bring the real you out, huh?" What's that supposed to mean?)<br><br>You suggest he posted something about "relocating Israel to Canada" but you "couldn't find but I know he said it." I didn't see it; I can't read everything. Find it, I'll look at it, and then we'll talk. But the words you could quote verbatim are not suggestive of "Jewish power theory," but rather merely an inclusion of Israeli intelligence in the equation of global deep power structures, which I think is entirely valid.<br><br>I hope I've made it clear on the blog and on this forum my thoughts regarding anti-semitism. Insinuating anti-semitism unjustifiably is also something I'm not crazy about. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 12/9/05 2:52 pm<br></i>
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Clueless.

Postby slimmouse » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:25 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>They’re supposed to defend themselves while 4B cries and throws his crayons across the floor, and slimmouse sidles on up like he always does to anybody he can use to slip a little more of that “message of his” across the threshold.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> You havent got the first Idea what youre talking about.<br> Its pretty fascinating that you can understand that "message of mine", when you cant see the obvious - Or have I been watching this crap for so long, it becomes so ridiculously plain for me to see and others to miss. <br><br> Are they so good ?<br><br> Youve gotta be kidding me. Ive lost count of the number of times, theyve been caught out half quoting, or completely misquoting people, or putting words into their mouths. Ive catalogued it on here for all to see, and yet you sit there smugly suggesting that "Ive got a message".<br><br> Well in fact youre right. I have. Youre blind, or worse.<br><br> You have fallen for the whole "Anti semite" Bullshit Hook, line and sinker. Precisely where its supposed to take us. But of course you cant see that either.<br><br> Heres the deal Anna. These people are calling certain posters, Nazis, Antisemites, Racists and all the rest of it - For pointing out who the fucking REAL Nazis, racists and Antisemites are. <br><br> Mention Israel, or Neocons, or Bankers, and a tick goes in the book. Let me ask you something, being an intelligent sort ?<br><br> Are Israel, Neocons and Bankers NOT a major part of the problem ? Are they not fair game on here ? <br><br> I feel truly sorry for you. Youve been hanging around Ruth too much. All this racist Jibe stuff makes me puke.<br><br> But whos the REAL Nazis around here ? I would have thought it was those who dont want this board to talk about Nazism in action, or those who defend that with the racist smear. <br><br> The ADL have been doing it for years.<br><br> Comprende ?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Clueless you wish.

Postby AnnaLivia » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:47 am

Man, I’m just completely CRUSHED. Oh, the worry! Oh, the woe! True despair! Now you and zundel BOTH think I’m one sick puppy, and you feel sorry for me. Oh, HOW will I go on from here, wounded as I am and bleeding from that killer spanking you just gave me? Oh, woe is me! Oh, whatever shall I do now?!<br><br><br>Try again, pal. Flail away. Don’t let the stunning beauty of my skin fool you; it’s much thicker than you think. Though, granted, not as thick as your head is…as evidenced by all the evidence you sweetly ignore.<br><br>You wanna know what makes ME puke, slim? The fact that in order to claim my birthright…which is a life of maximized happiness and safety through knowledge and justice…in order to create a safer and saner world for my children and for all of humanity through proper education and united action,<br><br>I have to go around a multitude of people like you with their own heads in the fucking sand, encouraging others to keep THEIR heads in the fucking sand…people like you who are doing the work of the fascists FOR them…running interference for THEM… by relentlessly spreading the “jewish bankers done it” bullshit…thereby guaranteeing the real perps go free, and guaranteeing THE STATUS QUO. Just like all the other wannabees who so stupidly think their ship is coming in someday if that status quo can just be maintained...which it will, the longer people like you spread the central lie.<br><br>GO RESPOND TO THE COUP OF 34 THREAD, I DARE YOU, and then all the youngsters who read at this site will be able to see your true intent, not to mention your level of intellectual laziness and denial, and how you are misleading them.<br><br>UNDERSTAND THIS, my leetle rutabaga (and same to all your “evil-Jewish-bankers-are-responsible” clones): You are standing between a fierce mother fiercely dedicated to her children’s survival and happiness, and that goal. And I don’t have time to take prisoners as I clear the path. Expect no mercy.<br><br>Pull your head out of your ass, slim, and you’ll see that life can be much more pleasant that way.<br><br>The least you can do is to stop misleading others. You are so much a part of the problem. It’s hilarious to hear you complain that the truth may finally come out because others speak it on this board. i'll say it again: if you don't want to be identified as a nazi, then stop spreading the big nazi lie from their script!<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Clueless you wish.

Postby scollon » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:53 am

It's got a female head too, this beast. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: aw, don't be coy

Postby AnnaLivia » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:26 pm

NAME THE BEAST, scollon. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: aw, don't be coy

Postby scollon » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:21 pm

DE,Prodlic, Qutb, Anna <p></p><i></i>
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Heres how it works, "Clueless you wish"

Postby slimmouse » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:22 pm

Unfortunately, youre right in one sense, Anna. <br><br> Im intellectually lazy. If I wasnt, then I would take time to catalogue exactly how this game is played, since you appear to have difficulty acknowledging the facts, as have been played , not just on myself, but an exbuddy of yours.<br><br> Its a very sinister form of chinese whispers, by the end of which the entire character of someone has been deformed way beyond the mark.<br><br> Congratulations. You joined in right at the end to complete the chain with the "Jewish Bankers" stuff.<br><br> Let me repeat the quote for posterity before I move on.....<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ive lost count of the number of times, theyve been caught out half quoting, or completely misquoting people, or putting words into their mouths. Ive catalogued it on here for all to see, and yet you sit there smugly suggesting that "Ive got a message".<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br> Well never mind, you obviously missed that part.<br><br> But hey, lets press on.......If I might be allowed to quote you, before I make my point ;<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You wanna know what makes ME puke, slim? The fact that in order to claim my birthright…which is a life of maximized happiness and safety through knowledge and justice…in order to create a safer and saner world for my children and for all of humanity through proper education and united action,<br><br>I have to go around a multitude of people like you with their own heads in the fucking sand, encouraging others to keep THEIR heads in the fucking sand…people like you who are doing the work of the fascists FOR them…running interference for THEM… by relentlessly spreading the “jewish bankers done it” bullshit…thereby guaranteeing the real perps go free, and guaranteeing THE STATUS QUO.<br><br> <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Well, thank heavens for that. Youre going no doubt to educate your children about the "sneaky ways" of how fascism operates, with its gentle deformity of facts, character assassinations and all the rest of it.<br><br> Well good for you. You obviously feel that Im an unworthy example of someone who should benefit from your "Clueless you wish" intellectual understanding.<br><br> Id like to leave you with a story about someone who might just be worthy of that cause.<br><br> I post this, principally out of that very intellectual laziness that you accuse me of; Because like I said youre right - I truly cant be bothered to catalogue it all again for you, so better to lump together a perfect example of how it might actually end up looking.<br><br> Are you sitting comfortably ?.........( bold emphasis mine. ) - <br><br> <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>March 14, 2005<br>Joseph Massad<br><br>I have prepared a statement to read to you. I would be happy to answer your questions afterwards. Before I begin, however, I want to ascertain that as professor Katzneslson has informed me, the only complaints that your committee has heard about me are the two <br>complaints that the press reported from my students, namely the complaint by Noah Liben and the complaint by Deena Shanker. As for the complaint by Tomy Schoenfeld, who was not my student, I presume, <br>his case is irrelevant to this body, as your mandate states that “as a result of the expression of concern by a number of students that they were being intimidated by faculty members and being excluded from participating fully in classroom discussions because of their views,” you are expected “to identify cases where there appear to be violations of the obligation to create a civil and tolerant teaching environment.”<br><br>2 If there are any other complaints against me, unless I am told what they are and who made them, and the date and place where they allegedly took place, I shall not respond to them.<br><br>I appear before you today because of a campaign of intimidation to which I have been subjected for over three years. While this campaign was started by certain members of the Columbia faculty, and by outside forces using some of my students as conduits, it soon expanded to include members of the Columbia administration, the rightwing tabloid press, the Israeli press, and more locally the Columbia Spectator. Much <br>of this preceded the David Project film “Columbia Unbecoming,” and the ensuing controversy. <br><br> In the following statement, I will provide you with <br>the history of this coordinated campaign, including the facts pertaining to the intimidation to which I am being subjected by the Columbia University administration, most manifestly through the convening of your own committee before which I appear today out of a combined sense of intimidation and obligation and not because I recognize its legitimacy. You need to bear with the details of the following narrative, as the campaign of intimidation against me is most insidious in its details.<br><br>I started teaching at Columbia in the Fall of 1999. At the conclusion of my first academic year, during which I taught my class on Palestinian and Israeli Politics and Societies, I received a Certificate of Appreciation <br>for teaching presented by "The Students of Columbia College, Class of 2000," and was nominated and was one of the two finalists for the Van Doren teaching award which went that year to Professor Michael <br>Stanislawski. <br><br> In my second year, I began to be told of whispers about my class on Palestinian and Israeli politics and Societies. Jewish Students in my class in the Spring 2001 would tell me that I was the main topic of discussion at the Jewish Theological Seminary and at Hillel and that my class is making the Zionists on campus angry. I took such reports lightly, as the class had doubled in size from the first year. I did <br>notice however that the class included some cantankerous students who insisted on scoring political points during the lectures. I would always <br>defuse the situation by allowing all questions to be asked and by attempting to answer them informatively. <br><br> I would do so in class and <br>during office hours. I had strong positive evaluations from most of my <br>students with some complaining that the class was biased. Although my <br>course description explained that “The purpose of the course is to <br>provide a thorough yet critical historical overview of the Zionist-<br>Palestinian conflict to familiarize undergraduates with the background to <br>the current situation,”3 I decided in the following year (Spring 2002) to <br>emphasize that point more clearly. The course description read as <br>follows:<br>The course examines critically the impact of Zionism on European Jews <br>and on Asian and African Jews on the one hand, and on Palestinian <br>Arabs on the other --in Israel, in the Occupied Territories, and in the <br>Diaspora. The course also examines critically the internal dynamics in <br>Palestinian and Israeli societies, looking at the roles class, gender, and <br>religion play in the politics of Israel and the Palestinian national <br>movement. The purpose of the course is not to provide a “balanced” <br>coverage of the views of both sides, but rather to provide a thorough yet <br>critical historical overview of the Zionist-Palestinian conflict to familiarize <br>undergraduates with the background to the current situation from a <br>critical perspective.4<br><br>The point of the class description is to make sure the students <br>understood that no side was being presented, neither the Palestinian <br>nor the Zionist side, but rather that this was a course that was critical of <br>both Zionism and Palestinian nationalism. When I taught the class in <br>2004, after returning from my sabbatical, I decided to remove the <br>sentence on “balance,” especially after CampusWatch began to attack <br>me for including it, to which I will return below. I removed it.5<br><br> It was with this as background that I started my Spring 2002 semester. <br>My Palestinian and Israeli course seemed to have a more cantankerous <br>crowd that year than before. Even though this year, the class had two <br>discussion sections to accommodate the number of students, a number <br>of students insisted on having discussions during the lecture. Some <br>would bring with them a pro-Israel lobby propaganda book from which <br>they would insist on reading in class. I would let them.<br><br>One student in particular stood out. A smart older student in General <br>Studies, who identified herself as having a South African Jewish <br>background, would insist on asking many questions every lecture, most <br>of which were about scoring political points. The class had over 80 <br>students and therefore it was difficult to accommodate such a large <br>number of questions from students. No matter, I decided to let her ask <br>all her questions in every lecture in order to make her feel comfortable <br>and that she feel that the class is a space where she could express <br>herself freely. She would E-mail me asking for exact sources for <br>information that I would give in class. I would E-mail her back what she <br>needed. For a while, it seemed that I was her research assistant, which I <br>was happy to do, in order to teach her that there are indeed scholarly <br>sources and scholarly answers to her political queries. I later found out <br>from other students that she was circulating a petition in the class to <br>have me fired from Columbia. I asked her after class one day if that was <br>the case, and told her that if it were so, that she would be free to <br>circulate it outside of class, not inside. She smiled back without comment.<br><br>I saw her on college walk one day after Spring break. She came up to <br>me and told me that she had just been to Israel and the Occupied <br>Territories and expressed how bad she felt about the situation there. <br>She apologized about the petition and told me that she had been <br>approached “from the outside” to do it but she had dropped the matter. <br>She spoke of people at the medical school and others from outside the <br>university who were behind the idea, but did not provide details. I did not <br>inquire.<br><br> Another student of mine (now at the School of International and Public <br>Affairs), who self-identified as a “Likudnik,” also approached me on <br>campus one day during the Spring 2002 semester, telling me that he <br>and a few other students had been invited to see a female professor at <br>the medical school. He described that the meeting was so <br>“surreptitious” and “conspiratorial,” that it felt that they were planning on <br>having me “murdered.” In fact, the plan was to strategize how to get me <br>fired. The student told me that they discussed the option of meeting with <br>a female administraror who worked at the time at the Middle East <br>Institute, to coordinate the plan with her. He told me that he had <br>informed the students and the medical school professor that even <br>though he disagreed with me, that he thought I had the right to express <br>my views.<br><br> The female student who initiated the petition against me was not alone <br>in class who consistently posed hostile questions. Three or four other <br>students would do so intermittently. One of them insisted on reading out <br>loud in class paragraphs from a propaganda book issued by a pro-Israel <br>lobbying organization. The book is “Myths and Facts: A Guide to the <br>Arab-Israeli Conflict” written by one Mitchell Bard and published by the <br>American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise, which states on its website that <br>“We are committed to arming students with the information they need to <br>respond to the very difficult issues raised on the campus” through the <br>publication of Bard’s book.6 Many students complained that these few <br>students were disruptive of class, especially as there are discussion <br>sections for them to raise their concerns. I allayed their anxiety by <br>explaining that there is something to learn from some of the students’ <br>politically-motivated questions, namely that all students would learn the <br>political arguments of proponents and opponents of certain scholarly <br>analyses of the conflict, and that students who had political queries <br>would also learn that there are indeed persuasive answers to the <br>queries they raise from a critical and scholarly angle. For me, allowing <br>these students to disrupt my lecture was of pedagogical benefit to them <br>and to the rest of the class.<br><br>During the same semester, in April 2002, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>I was attacked and misquoted </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>by the Spectator after attending an on-campus rally in support of <br>Palestinians under Israeli military attack in the West Bank and Gaza, and <br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>an op-ed piece and letters were published in the Spectator accusing me <br>of “anti-Semitism” for a lecture I had given at the Middle East Institute in <br>February 2002.7 The op-ed piece by a junior at Barnard named <br>Daphna Berman, who was not my student, drew parallels between a <br>swastika found in a law school bathroom and my lecture and rebuked <br>the university for allowing me to speak out:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>“I was struck by the University's willingness to publicly condemn blatant <br>expressions of anti-Semitism [such as the swastika incident] while <br>simultaneously condoning, and even sponsoring, more tacit and subtle <br>forms of that same evil. Massad's talk is lent a certain legitimacy by mere <br>virtue of the fact that his views exist within an academic framework. The <br>rhetoric is polished, the multisyllabic words characteristic of academia <br>are pleasing to the ear, and so Massad's message somehow becomes <br>more acceptable, more palatable. Yet fundamentally, the difference <br>between Massad's message and its more blatant and visually tangible <br>manifestation are only subtle.”8</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>As for the political rally, which took place on Wednesday April 17, 2002, I <br>was one of countless speakers. I spoke out and asserted the following: <br>“"Like white South Africans who felt threatened under apartheid and who <br>only felt safe when they gave up their commitment to white supremacy, <br>Israeli Jews will continue to feel threatened if they persist in supporting <br>Jewish supremacy. Israeli Jews will only feel safe in a democratic Israeli <br>state where all Jews and Arabs are treated equally. No state has the <br>right to be a racist state.” <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Spectator misquoted me as saying that <br>Israel is “a Jewish supremacist and racist state,” and that “every racist <br>state should be threatened.”9 When I protested the misquotation, the <br>Spectator journalist who wrote the story, Xan Nowakowski, apologized <br>and informed me via E-mail that she did not even attend the rally and <br>got the quotes from another reporter.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> She assured me that the <br>newspaper would run a correction. After a back and forth for almost a <br>week on E-mail, the Spectator ran the correction on April 24, 2002.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>However, two major pro-Israeli propagandists, namely Martin Kramer <br>and Daniel Pipes, would insist on reproducing the misquote in articles <br>that they wrote to newspapers and that they posted on their websites. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>On June 20, 2002, Martin Kramer, an Israeli academic who teaches at <br>Tel Aviv university, posted an article on the Middle East Forum website <br>titled “Arab Panic,” in which he attacked a number of Columbia <br>professors, myself included. He argued that “Massad's views are not all <br>that unusual in Middle Eastern studies, and he has every right to <br>express them on Columbia's Low Plaza, in public lectures, and in print. <br>But should someone who is busy propagandizing against the existence <br>of Israel be employed by Columbia to teach the introductory course on <br>the Arab-Israeli conflict?… <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Suffice it to say that this column has received <br>a surfeit of student complaints about the course, suggesting that there is <br>no difference between what Massad teaches and what he preaches.” </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> In <br>his article,<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Kramer reproduced the misquote from the Spectator. Prior to <br>Kramer’s column, a website for an organization called “The Columbia <br>Conservative Alumni Association” listed me among the six "worst faculty" <br>at Columbia, a list that also included Edward Said who was identified as <br>a “homosexual” who supports Hamas. Martin Kramer was only too <br>happy to quote from that website in his article, as would other columnists <br>writing for the New York Sun. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>On June 25 2002, Daniel Pipes and one Jonathan Schanzer published <br>an article in the New York Post titled “Extremists on Campus,” in which <br>they listed me as one such extremist and complained that I use my class <br>as a “soapbox for anti-Israeli polemics.”</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> The Wall Street Journal <br>published on September 18, 2002 an article about a pro-Israel website <br>calling itself CampusWatch being launched by Daniel Pipes, stating that <br>the website listed 8 professors (including me) with our own public <br>dossiers as enemies of America and Israel and called on our students to <br>monitor us in class. Following the launch of CampusWatch, my E-mail <br>was spammed for months with over 4000 E-mails daily, which I had to sift <br>through until finally Columbia was able to install an anti-spamming <br>program. Moreover, I was subjected to identity theft when thousands of <br>racist E-mails would be sent in my name to individuals and listservs, <br>including a few to the White House and Congressmen threatening them <br>with terrorist action. Moreover, thousands of other E-mails would be sent <br>to people with requests of notes of receipt being sent back to my E-mail <br>account which clogged it further with thousands of such E-mail receipts. <br>I also received tens of racist E-mails and phone messages including <br>death threats directed at me. In the meantime, Pipes’s website called on <br>our own students to spy on us in the classroom and report to him, and <br>Kramer called for my dismissal from Columbia University.10 In interviews <br>that I gave to the press, I spoke about the misquotation which Pipes and <br>Kramer continued to propagate, and about my experience in my Spring <br>2002 class, with regards to the petition to get me fired and the secret <br>meeting at the Medical school which my student had told me about.11<br><br>As I was on sabbatical in London that year, I was relatively shielded <br>from the campaign, even though my E-mail account continued to be <br>disrupted. I did come to Columbia to deliver a lecture on Palestinian <br>cinema in January 2003. My lecture, titled “The Weapon of Culture,” <br>discussed how Palestinian cinema was a weapon of resistance and an <br>act of culture in reference to Amilcar Cabral’s famous essay “the <br>Weapon of Theory.” Kramer immediately attacked my paper based on <br>reports in the press.12<br><br>In late January 2003, I began to write a column to the Egyptian Weekly <br>Al-Ahram which deals mostly with Palestinian-Israeli affairs and with the <br>Arab World more generally. Every time I published an article, Kramer <br>and Pipes would write about it, as would new student recruits that they <br>had on campuses. One such ideological recruit was a first year student <br>in General Studies whom I had never met called Ariel Beery. Beery <br>would become one of the main people defending the claims of the David <br>Project in whose film he appeared and called me “one of the most <br>dangerous intellectuals… on campus.” Beery has never taken a class <br>with me and never met me. Beery, who claims to have served in the <br>Israeli army in Lebanon, had his own Spectator column and a personal <br>blog. Beery arrived on the Columbia campus when I was on sabbatical, <br>yet, surprisingly, he chose to write about me in his column. After <br>criticizing my Palestinian and Israeli Politics and Societies course, which <br>he never took, Beery asserted:<br>One would think that we need a teacher in the classroom, not a <br>critic…The problem lies not in what Massad believes, but in his openly <br>biased presentation in the classroom. The statements he issues are <br>anywhere from questionable to fundamentally wrong.<br><br>Basing his arguments on of one my newspaper columns, Beery added <br>the following:<br><br>“If anything, Massad's claim [in his column] that there is no anti-Semitism <br>in the Arab world should disqualify him from setting foot in a Columbia <br>University classroom as a professor of Modern Arab Politics. Just as you <br>would not trust a surgeon with shaky knowledge of the human anatomy, <br>Columbia should not trust the minds of its charges to a professor with a <br>limited knowledge of the body politic of the region he supposedly is an <br>expert in. [Massad also] says that the claim that Israel is democratic is <br>no more than a ‘propagandistic image.’… th[is]…charge on Israel should <br>again disqualify Massad from teaching at Columbia.”13<br><br>In a second column, Beery again railed against me and lamented that<br><br><br>“Our educations are bound in intellectual Egypt, enslaved by the post-<br>colonialist slant that has permeated our social sciences, while our <br>institution is trapped by its old-fashioned bylaws into protecting the <br>employment of those who espouse hateful and violent rhetoric… Will <br>President Bollinger and future Provost Alan Brinkley be our gate and our <br>key to a new and better University? Only time will tell. Let's just hope that <br>our time in the wilderness will be short and that next year we will enjoy a <br>rebuilt Columbia.”14<br><br>This is in addition to myriad log entries on me on his website.<br><br> In April 2003, I decided to respond to Kramer and Pipes in an article <br>titled “Policing the Academy,” in which I fleshed out their agenda and <br>their plans. I concluded by stating that<br><br>“Kramer, Pipes, and co. are angry that the academy still allows <br>democratic procedure in the expression of political views and has an <br>institutionalised meritocratic system of judgment…to evaluate its <br>members. Their goal is to destroy any semblance of either in favour of <br>subjecting democracy and academic life to an incendiary jingoism and to <br>the exigencies of the national security state with the express aim of <br>imploding freedom. Their larger success, however, has been in <br>discrediting themselves and in reminding all of us that we should never <br>take the freedoms that we have for granted, as the likes of Kramer and <br>Pipes are working to take them away.”15<br><br>I attach the text of my article at the end of this statement.<br><br> Upon returning to Columbia in the Fall of 2003, I was scheduled to <br>give a lecture on the 2nd of October at the Society of Fellows at the <br>Heyman Center. The lecture was attended by a large number of people <br>including many faculty members, Professor Nicholas Dirks, who had not <br>yet become vice-president, was among them. After the lecture I was <br>asked a number of hostile questions from young students and from one <br>Rabbi Charles Sheer, about whom I had heard the previous year when <br>he railed against MEALAC professors in the context of the pro-<br>Palestinian rally that took place on campus in April 2002. I had never <br>met him before. I answered all the questions put before me. Several <br>professors came to me afterwards, including Brinkley Messick of the <br>Department of Anthropology and my departmental colleague Janaki <br>Bakhle, among others, wondering how I managed to remain calm in the <br>face of rude and hostile questions of the caliber I had been asked. <br>Rabbi Sheer’s secretary called me and left a message asking for the text <br>of the lecture. I never responded. The lecture has been published in the <br>scholarly journal Cultural Critique and has recently been the topic of a <br>newspaper article in the New York Sun, and I believe also in the Daily <br>News.16 On 6 January 2004, Rabbi Sheer posted a letter on the Hillel <br>website addressed to Columbia and Barnard students, in which he <br>discussed my lecture and made a startling announcement. In his letter, <br>Sheer shared an article he had written called “The Treatment of the <br>Middle East Studies at Columbia University.”17 Sheer declared that “the <br>principal anti-Israel voices [on Columbia’s campus] are not pro-<br>Palestinian student leaders and groups, but Columbia faculty and <br>academic departments.” He added that “On the one hand, there are <br>many fine courses taught by CU faculty on Hebrew language and <br>literature, the history of Israel and Zionism, Arab culture, languages and <br>nationalism, etc. These courses, offered in various departments, are <br>taught with the usual CU standard of careful scholarship and <br>balance…On the other hand, some faculty members whose teaching <br>style is called ‘advocacy education’ espouse a consistent anti-Israel and <br>pro-Palestinian bias. Their personal politics pervade the classroom and <br>academic forums. The record is public: search under ‘Columbia <br>University’ at websites such as www.campus-watch.org and www. Be prepared; it is not a pleasant read.”18<br><br> Sheer proceeded to mention that he had attended my lecture at the <br>Heyman Center and then summarized it by making outrageous claims <br>that were never made in the lecture:<br><br>“Professor Massad has reversed the roles of all the players and <br>redefined many of the historic events: the Zionists are the new Nazis; the <br>Palestinians are oppressed victims and therefore the new Jews... From a <br>distance, this diatribe may sound ludicrous. However, its impact on <br>campus is serious. MEALAC should enable our students to explore <br>issues vital to their understanding of the modern Middle East in a <br>balanced way…”<br><br>We will see how the false claim attributed to me by Rabbi Sheer that I <br>said that “the Zionists are the new Nazis,” a claim I never made, would <br>find its way to Ariel Beery who would make the same claim in the video <br>“Columbia Unbecoming,”19 as would Noah Liben in his description of my <br>course --a false claim that would be repeated ad absurdum in the media. <br>Sheer concluded with two interesting claims, one which effectively called <br>on students not to take my class, and another announcing the filming of <br>Columbia Unbecoming:<br><br>“Of course, academic freedom is a cornerstone of our University. <br>However, students are understandably reluctant to take courses from <br>faculty who impose their biases in their teaching. A student group is <br>currently working on a video that records how intimidated students feel <br>by advocacy teaching, and how some are discouraged from taking <br>MEALAC courses or majoring in Middle East studies.”<br><br>Sheer further called on Columbia University to “share my passion for <br>unbiased scholarship and the establishment of a proper learning <br>environment so our students – Jews and non-Jews - can learn about <br>complex issues with honesty and integrity.” 20<br><br> Suffice it to say that my class had over fifty students for the Spring <br>2004 and students did not heed the call made by Sheer. The class did <br>however include a number of auditors (I found out they were <br>unregistered during the last week of class) who would consistently <br>harass me with hostile ideological questions that ignored all the <br>readings. Students complained about the disruption this caused the <br>class. I tried to emphasize to the auditors that their questions must be <br>relevant to the subject at hand and that they must do the readings. They <br>never did and I continued to answer their questions until the end of the <br>semester to avoid creating a tense atmosphere in the classroom.<br><br> During this period, the New York Sun and Kramer and Pipes continued <br>to attack me in their columns and on their websites. In an article on <br>December 30, 2003, the Sun had again attacked one of my newspaper <br>columns misquoting me. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>In my column, I stated that "While Israel has no <br>legitimacy and is not recognized by any international body as a <br>‘representative’ of the Jewish people worldwide but rather as the state of <br>the Israeli people who are citizens of it...," the Sun quoted me as saying <br>that “Israel has no legitimacy.”</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> I asked for a correction from the reporter <br>Jacob Gershman. He agreed and the newspaper ran it the next day.21 <br>This however was just a brief lull. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>On May 4, 2004, the Sun ran another <br>article about me by one Jonathan Calt Harris, identified as an associate <br>of Daniel Pipes at Campus Watch, titled “Tenured Extremism.” After a <br>litany of misquotes, half quotes, and outright fabrications, Calt Harris, <br>who referred to my views as akin to those of “Nazis,” concluded by <br>stating: “Mr. Massad is soon up for tenure review. Should this once <br>distinguished university stoop to provide a permanent forum for his <br>views, it would signify a truly stunning oversight…He knows no <br>distinction between a classroom lecture and advocacy at a public <br>demonstration.”22</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br> Based on this repeated call to deny me tenure at Columbia, which had <br>already been expressed by Martin Kramer, I set up an appointment with <br>Provost Brinkley and met with him. I sought his help and the help of the <br>university’s legal services to fight this defamation of character. The <br>latest article in the New York Sun included such blatant and insidious <br>misrepresentations that I seriously considered suing them for <br>defamation. I provided copies of my written work for the Provost and told <br>him of the campaigns to which I had been subjected in the previous <br>years. While the provost seemed mildly supportive, he did not think that <br>suing would be practical. I asked him if he could arrange for me to meet <br>with legal services to which he reluctantly agreed. I had to remind him by <br>E-mail to set up a meeting for me. After he put me in touch with legal <br>services, my E-mails to them went unanswered. I asked the provost to <br>intervene which he did. His intervention produced a response from their <br>office asking me about my available times to set up an appointment. I <br>sent it to them and never heard back. I dropped the matter after I left in <br>mid summer for vacation abroad.<br><br> <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>In the meantime however, I received a letter from Joel J. Levy, director <br>of the<br>New York chapter of the Anti-Defamation League, copies of which had <br>been sent to President Bollinger and Provost Brinkley. The letter was <br>significantly dated on May 6, 2004, two days after Calt Harris published <br>his article in the Sun. The letter complained to me that, according to one <br>report it received from one student who attended a lecture that I had <br>given at the University of Pennsylvania on March 24, 2004 (which <br>incidentally was the same lecture I gave at Columbia’s Society of Fellows <br>the previous October), ideas expressed in my lecture are “anti-Semitic.” <br>The letter made false claims about what my lecture said and asked that I <br>retract them and issue an apology for my allegedly anti-Semitic remarks. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>I wrote Mr. Levy back and copied President Bollinger and Provost <br>Brinkley. I stated in my letter that:<br><br>“My principled stance against anti-Semitism and all kinds of racism is a <br>matter of public record and cannot be assailed by defamatory ‘reports’ <br>or by letters from the ADL that consider them credible sources. Indeed I <br>have condemned anti-Semitism in my Arabic and English writings, <br>regardless of whether the person expressing it was pro-Israel or anti-<br>Israel, an Arab, an American Christian, or an Israeli Jew… I therefore <br>expect a prompt correction of the errors contained in your letter and <br>demand an immediate apology, a copy of which should be sent to <br>President Bollinger.”23<br><br>I never heard back from the ADL, or from the provost.<br><br> It was with this as background that news about the David Project film <br>“Columbia Unbecoming,” surfaced on October 20, 2004 in a New York <br>Sun article.24<br><br>The Aftermath of Columbia Unbecoming<br><br> I was horrified by the media campaign against me and the calls for my <br>dismissal from Columbia that were issued by Congressman Weiner and <br>by the editors of the Daily News and the New York Sun, as well as calls <br>by Jewish members of the New York City Council to investigate the <br>matter. These calls were issued as declarations about the controversy <br>by the national head of the ADL and Mayor Bloomberg were also made <br>to the press and the film was suddenly being shown in Israel before a <br>government minister at an anti-Semitism conference. I had requested a <br>meeting with Provost Brinkley who did not contact me once during the <br>early days of the controversy during which President Bollinger was <br>making all kinds of statements to the press. My request to meet with the <br>Provost was made through the chair of my department, Marc van de <br>Mieroop, who attended our meeting in the Provost’s office on the 27th of <br>October. I inquired of the provost as to why he would sit down secretly to <br>watch a propaganda film produced by a lobbying group and why he <br>would remain silent about it after he had seen it. The provost apologized <br>and admitted that these were mistakes but that now we needed to <br>contain the problem. He assured me that he had received countless <br>letters in my support and few against me. When I spoke with Vice-<br>President Dirks later, he also informed me that he had received <br>“hundreds” of letters in my support and “three or four” against me. I trust <br>that the President, the Provost, and the Vice-President, have shared <br>with you these letters. While the provost and I corresponded briefly on E-<br>mail, mainly about my concerns regarding statements made by <br>President Bollinger, which the Provost would challenge and represent as <br>the media’s inaccurate rendering, soon there would be no further <br>communication with him. President Bollinger to this day has not <br>contacted me.<br><br>The Columbia Spectator ran an editorial asking me to respond to the <br>allegations. They wrote me and called me asking that I issue a <br>statement. I agreed with their editorial page editor, Rachael <br>Scarborough King, on the number of words and sent it to them. They <br>refused to publish it unless I cut it to 1600 words, 400 words below what <br>they had agreed to. I cut down my statement and resent it. They still <br>refused to publish it. The editorial page editor, Ms. King sent me an <br>apology about her sense of shame that the editor in chief “overruled” <br>her and refused to run it. I have kept our E-mail correspondence. I opted <br>to post my response to the allegations on my Columbia Webpage on <br>November 3, 2005, against the advice of the Provost, who counseled <br>that my silence was of more benefit to me. The Spectator would later <br>publish Charles Jacobs, the director of the David Project’s response to <br>my statement.25<br><br> Let me begin by responding to the claims put forward in “Columbia <br>Unbecoming,” both based on press reports and on the recent transcript <br>of the film made available on the web. I still have not seen the film. Let <br>me reiterate what I said in my statement regarding the claims put by the <br>students in the film:<br><br>I am now being targeted because of my public writings and statements <br>through the charge that I am allegedly intolerant in the classroom, a <br>charge based on statements made by people who were never my <br>students, except in one case, which I will address momentarily. Let me <br>first state that I have intimidated no one. In fact, Tomy Schoenfeld, the <br>Israeli soldier who appears in the film and is cited by the New York Sun, <br>has never been my student and has never taken a class with me, as he <br>himself informed The Jewish Week. I have never met him. As for Noah <br>Liben, who appears in the film according to newspaper accounts (I have <br>not seen the film), he was indeed a student in my Palestinian and Israeli <br>Politics and Societies course in the spring of 2001. Noah seems to have <br>forgotten the incident he cites. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>During a lecture about Israeli state <br>racism against Asian and African Jews, Noah defended these practices <br>on the basis that Asian and African Jews were underdeveloped and <br>lacked Jewish culture, which the Ashkenazi State operatives were <br>teaching them. When I explained to him that, as the assigned readings <br>clarified, these were racist policies, he insisted that these Jews needed <br>to be modernized and the Ashkenazim were helping them by civilizing <br>them.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->[/b] Many students gasped. He asked me if I understood his point. I <br>informed him that I did not. Noah seems not to have done his reading <br>during the week on gender and Zionism. One of the assigned readings <br>by Israeli scholar and feminist Simona Sharoni spoke of how in Hebrew <br>the word “zayin” means both penis and weapon in a discussion of Israeli <br>militarized masculinity. Noah, seemingly not having read the assigned <br>material, mistook the pronunciation of “zayin” as “Zion,” pronounced in <br>Hebrew “tziyon.” As for his spurious claim that I said that “Jews in Nazi <br>Germany were not physically abused or harassed until Kristallnacht in <br>November 1938,” Noah must not have been listening carefully. During <br>the discussion of Nazi Germany, we addressed the racist ideology of <br>Nazism, the Nuremberg Laws enacted in 1934, and the institutionalized <br>racism and violence against all facets of Jewish life, all of which <br>preceded the extermination of European Jews. This information was also <br>available to Noah in his readings, had he chosen to consult them. <br>Moreover, the lie that the film propagates claiming that I would equate <br>Israel with Nazi Germany is abhorrent. I have never made such a <br>reprehensible equation.<br><br> </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br> Hey Anna, theres plenty more there. <br><br> Do YOU recognise what IM trying to say ? <br><br> Or am I being fucking obtuse ?<br><br> "misquote", followed by " half quote".<br><br> Deform, followed by "defame" ( how Ironic). <br><br> Would YOU like to look over my posts, and then try and tell me from an independent viewpoint what "My message is" ?<br><br> Didnt you get on well with Anti once over ? Tell me Anna. Was it "Ruth", or was it the lies and bullshit you fell for ?<br><br> Im still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Hence only posting this typical Modus Operandi on the firepit.<br> <br> Also, as you can clearly see, Perhaps Im being a tad melodramatic, in the sense that the smearing of myself and others on this board is nothing quite so intense as the above was subjected too........But im hoping that even you cant miss the point.<br><br> Or do you prefer to join the "Triumverate"<br><br><br> ? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 12/10/05 8:57 pm<br></i>
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academic freedom ?

Postby ir » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:55 am

Slimmouse, re Massad. I have had the "pleasure" of being a target of same tactics, on a US campus, as a student of cultural anthropogy in San Francisco. The teacher, was not Palestinian but of the same school of thought as Massad/Said etc., in fact she was married to a Jew...However, as her class and course started attracting students and acclaim, it also attracted the same type of Israeli "police forces". Since one was working in the finance/tuition department I started having my bills messed up, then another messed with my visa papers etc., they called me for a "talk" eventualy and told me this is a "faculty for israeli hating" etc. etc. To remind you, I am Israeli ! and Jewish. and served in the military whatever, did my share. <br>I ended up leaving school i just couldn't handle it, so I can see what this prof. has had to endure, especially since Columbia U. is important (my school was a private fairly small school, certainly not ivy league or close to it).<br>--<br>Having said that, two comments -<br>1. The students who actually do these things are hot headed young people, who get perks for it, and know not what they are doing. most of them truly beleive they are defending the existence of the little, just, attacked Israel. You'd have to understand how these people are raised up to realize they are victims too, but I know it is <br>annoying to hear it. It is harder for me to write it. these people have ruined my life, yet as I am old now, I see that the system always find the young, brainwashed pawns to do this dirty work. usually, by the time they have kids of their own, they realize they have been duped and are resentful as well. The more devious ones are the masterminds behind these smear campaigns, and they just send the soldiers...its the same like sending young kids to war in Iraq. None of us is fooled again to get pissed at those young pawns, right ? <br>2. this is more important and connected - the dean of Columbia U and his deputy are clearly not Jews (by the names, maybe I a wrong), anyway, they are well established Americans, with a LOT OF POWER. How do you explain away their attitude ? if they wanted to stop the campaigns on campus, by Israel for instance, they have the means and the power and the ability to make it stop. They don't. You don't seriously think that those Israeli students, even if they are warriors, are a threat to the dean ? they are not. Neither is the Rabbi who smeared him, or all those other people on campus. What is their gameplan ? <br>So finally, looking back at my experience in the USA campus, I come to a conclusion that, yeah, the Israelis are playing outside the rules, to stop what they think is palestinian propaganda. But what about the government of the USA ? what about the board of trustees ? what about the entire academic body of the USA ? they are not Jewish, (don't sell me that, because I did go to school in the USA and have seen the numbers and especially in Ivy League the power is christian, not Jewish), why are they suddenly so neutral or blind ? since I don't see those people as stupid or naive, I think they are encouraging it. allowing it, tolerating it...\<br><br>If you take other wartorn areas, surely, the same struggle is happening in US academy over whose version is "true", say Balkan, Rwanda, certainly and actively Latin American studies, there's a lot of meddling going on there. But you'd have to see that the USA, academia and all, are running this show. They know precisely who the students are before they enroll them. I know Harvard is running two programs for Israelis, where Harvard is paying tuition and living stipend. One program is MBa for senior public officials (generals, senior civil servants etc.), they get this perk, and the university is choosing who to groom, thus influencing our internal politics. Another program, is for Human Rights law, also masters degree, where Israeli "opposition" is cultivated carefully. I am sure the same is done with Palestinians. <br><br>I figure that - 1/ they gather intel information this way. 2/ they influence politics directly by "buying" leaders and making them their own. 3/ they test solutions on campus, and watch the natives take each other's eyes out. <br><br>Someone is enjoying the show, the stadium is filled, and blood is the name of the game. <br><br>---<br>So, while you condemn this "thought police" (and I concur with you that it exists), be sure to ask yourself who is letting it happen, who benefits and who could have stopped it any moment, by merely excercising existing rules and sanctions. <br><br>Case close.<br><br>There are no saints in this game, but the US government is cashing. <br><br>Some people wlil point to cases where the Israeli lobby was able to get away by blackmailing or exerting pressure on local authorities, officials, even in Academia. That might be true, but then I see no reason why we should excuse those jerks who didn't come up clean and said what happened. it means they are as corrupt as could possibly be. So, if this is the case, again, what is there to do ? <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Were in almost total agreement.

Postby slimmouse » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:37 pm

<br><br> IR. I cannot find fault in virtually anything you said.<br><br> The only thing I would add is this. The principle reason for this post, was to try and explain to people, exactly how this whole Anti semitism angle is applied.<br><br> It is done through a process of half quote, misquote, put words into people mouths. The post I quoted above is actually possibly about half of it. It doesnt get any better either. As Ive catalogued previously, this is precisely the same kind of thing that has happened to certain people on this forum. I genuinely wouldnt even mind if it was honest criticism, but of course its nothing but shameless dishonesty much of the time.<br><br> Youre right when you say, that the majority of these provocateurs are mouthy ignorant, arrogant students at the grass roots level in universities, but its not so much them that should concern people.<br><br> Its people like the ADL - Pipes, Kramer, et al. Its These people who are the ultimate cynics and hypocrites. <br><br> Those who encourage their little dare I say it Brownshirts in their campaigns and activities. As you have rightly pointed out, verbal harrassment in itself can be more than enough. Which of course is reinforced with the shameful guilt trip associations of people with "Nazism". Well fuck that. <br><br> Youre also of course right, that this hydra is supported and endorsed as much <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>from above</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->as it is from all sides, by all the usual suspects. If Ive said that once myself, Ive said it a thousand times. Its the ultimate marriage of convenience/ unholy alliance. I believe that this in fact is all part of the overall plan.<br><br> And therein lies the problem you see. These people such as the ADL who complain of racism are the very people who really couldnt give a crap about the average Jew. If further proof of this breathtakingly audacious facade were neccessary, one only needs to look at the methods - nothing short of out and out barefaced lying, smearing, and defaming under the veil of an "academic" argument which cynically purports to be protecting us from Fascism.<br><br> Ingenious in its own way. But equally as evil. <p></p><i></i>
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Responding to Anna and Jeff

Postby FourthBase » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:05 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And Jeff, maybe 4B didn’t really mean to threaten Proldic and P did perceive an “actual” threat where there was none, but I disagree strongly that Proldic “went nuclear”. read his words. 4B has got no complaint, and has obviously missed all the facts about fascism put up here lately. The guy acts like he’s paying no attention at all.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I find it laughable that my curtailing of my own lashing out (by editing out some of my hottest flaming) and my promise to deal with proldic's smears in a more mature way (writing to proldic myself in the thread, instead of running to daddy) were taken by proldic as a "threat".<br><br>As for me having no complaint...I'm aware that there are real anti-semites and/or overzealous anti-Zionists on the board. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>But I have nothing to do with that.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> What, I'm supposed to accept getting lumped in with them for no reason? Hell no.<br><br>Just because I refuse to downplay the Israeli art-student spy ring, the celebrating Israelis, or the presence of Daniel Lewin (I've never "up-played" it either!)...just because I am creeped out by Masons in general and occasionally on my way to Park Street pause at the corner to look at who goes in the Masonic headquarters...does NOT make me an anti-Zionist, a Jewish power theorist, an anti-semite, or a paranoid proponent of a Masonic-Zionist-Illuminati-Whatever conspiracy.<br><br>Yes, I have said that perhaps Israel should have been located in Canada...just as some early Zionists had suggested before deciding on Palestine. If it had been, there probably would have been a lot less bloodshed, don't you think? Isn't less death and less misery more important than reclaiming land? Maybe it's naive, but I think life is more important than land.<br><br>I do not remember saying that it should be re-located <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>now</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> to Canada. I don't think I did, because I don't think it should. I'm not opposed to the state of Israel. I am not really on anyone's side in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. <p></p><i></i>
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