how come brittish fascists are considered "left" ?

by ir » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:12 am

i wonder if anyone can explain the phenomenon of Brittish fascists and racists (wouldn't want to use the tacky nazi thing) who go under 'left' ? I first met this breed in canada (a faction supporting NDP), and thought it was a local abberation, but it appears to have roots. Who are those people and who supports them ? -------

by **antiaristo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:21 am

IR, I'm not sure of the premise here, nor why you want to avoid "Nazi". You know about 1930's Germany, I'm sure. The name Nazi comes from the German for National Socialist, so it all started from "socialists".

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:40 am

I think you've been reading DE's mind which is largely empty space.

by ir » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:07 am

yeah, I know Nazi comes from national socialists...i am wondering about present day "european leftists" who display the same amount of antisemitism and various superstitious beliefs, ALONG with progressive social ideas (peace, anti colonialist, anti globalist, socialist ...). reason I am asking, is how come basically "enlightened" folks throw in the mix those middle ages blood line stuff (which i would expect in the right wing among religious fundamentalists for instance). It was interesting this morning to see that a similar debate developed in my reg board in Israel (run by the communist party), about chavez christmas speech and developed into the question "is there antisemitism in the left ?". I have to say that had I not met in person and flesh the type of progressive-enlightened left wing anti war/USA AND strongly sntisemitic folks - in canada, I would see the entire debate as an intentional spin by the right wing in Israel. However, on this board too I see a certain theme such as that. I think that the reason the Americans still look down at Euopeans as those old time nazis, has roots in this kind of thinking that one rarely meets in the US left wing. I have to admit that this entire cosmos of imagery is alien and new to me (monarchies, vatican schemes etc. ). We have been so swept by American thinking I believe most Israelis are not familiar with Europe anymore, especially since the holocaust a huge mental WALL has been erected on our national memory with regards to Europe. It is very painful and also relieving for Israeli Jews to reconnect to Europe, and Eastern Europe as well, which after all where many came from. However, along with this revival comes the memory of the sickness in the relations between Europe and Jewry, all those legacies, libles, kings and queens and what not. For me, this is unpleasant and I have to admit feeling more comfortable within the American matrix in THAT respect, namely, post colonial leftist analysis. Of course,the American schools have drawn mostly on Frankfurt School and Foucault and other European thinkers but it was stripped from a variety of old world imagery and terminology, as with other american institutions. Scollon, I think DE has more than one excellent points and has opened my mind to see the world. With regards to Jews/Israel, this board led me to more despair in attempting to even unrderstand my own attitudes and identity. it is entirely confusing and very unpleasant. I'd rather resort to what I do know, namely that i'd rather stay away from those "big" questions and focus on what's at hand, namely, there enough problems in plain view to deal with, both with regards to world situation and Israel.

by **antiaristo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:28 am

IR, Do you know about the "Irish Holocaust", when more than one third our number were murdered? Perhaps you know it better as "The Famine"? British Fascists have always been the best at spinning. Throughout the years 1845 to 1849 MASSIVE amounts of food were taken out of the country. The prime purpose of the British Army in Ireland was to protect the ships as they were being loaded. If you lock a man in a room for weeks, did he die of "natural causes"? Yes, it was a long time ago. But it goes on. Still. Look at this from Osculum's post <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mr Blair has confirmed at least three times that his government observed the Wilson Doctrine, most recently in 2003 when it became clear that MI5 had been bugging Sinn Fein's Gerry Adams, who has not taken his seat and so is not formally an MP.<hr></blockquote> As I explained there, no Irishman will swear an oath of allegiance to the queen. And it is on those grounds that Gerry Adams, elected with a massive majority, is debarred from Parliament. There's not just more anti-Irish sentiment than anti-Jew sentiment in Britain. It is comprehensively institutionalised.

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:31 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think that the reason the Americans still look down at Euopeans as those old time nazis, has roots in this kind of thinking that one rarely meets in the US left wing. <hr></blockquote> The American left is a great big nothing because they elect out and out Republicans like Clinton. It has been completely disabled by political correctness and a media to the right of Goebbels In my opiion, American society is fascist, the whole freedom and democracy thing is a veneer. The only American socialist that has impressed me is Ralph Schoenman who is Jewish and virulently anti Zionist. There you have your answer to the European question, find an intelligent American who isn't brain washed by Jewish owned TV and Hollywood movies and you get someone like George Galloway a British socialist who has been supporting the Palestineans for thirty or more years. So have the vast majority other British socialists and strongly too. I know because I used to be one. Ralph Schoenman <a href="http://takingaim.info/">takingaim.info/</a> Israel is a very, very nasty racist state, hardly surprising in that Jews have a racial identity so strong it has survived 2000 years. I believe that because the newspaper and TV reporting in Britain is considerably more balanced than in America. Fascism died in Britain partly because there wasn't the anti-semitism to drive it along except possibly in London.I have never heard one anti-semitic remark in my life. In fact I have more or less never heard the word Jew or Jewish mentioned. There are very few Jews in Scotland to my knowledge. My interest in Jewish things (don't talk politics in real life) came with the 5 israelis caught on 9/11 and the arrest of Michail Khodorkovsly in Russia and that isn't a fantasy. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 1/17/06 7:03 am

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:42 am

When DE was challenged to produce fascists of a New Age variety or otherwise, he didn't. At least there are real powerful Jewish Bankers. The racist conspiracy theory only comes in when you say they conspire together to rule the world. There is no proof of that.

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:56 am

antiaristo You are strange kind of Irishman in being so obviously English. Adams is at the very heart of the British occupation of Northern Ireland, Sein Feinn are part of the government and McGuiness is a minister of the crown. Talk about betrayal. The Irish famine was caused by the English upper classes worship of their real God which is free trade. They refused to interfere with it. It happened in India too for exactly the same reasons. not fascism but FREE trade. The whole world has been taken over by the same philosophy. It's ironic that Americans are the main proponents of this unaware that it's very much the British way and absolutely not the American tradition. They've been duped. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 1/17/06 7:03 am

by ir » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:15 am

You are from Scotland then. Can you tell ME a little bit about Scotland ? data, statistics, government/regime...I feel so awkward, cause I don't really know much about your lovely (I am sure) place, except for me it is part of UK, don't faint please (I am experiencing this kind of lumping up all the time so I know it feels bad). Scotland for me - those funny skirts we used to wear in the sixties, it was "hip" for girls, with that special big safety pin. ; its where Cook dropped dead ; where Abramoff took his clients to play golf ; where, I believe Vanunu was elected by student organization; Ewen Cameron nationality of origin; very light skinned, red headed and speckled faces...beer, and generally not interesting ? (or is that not fair..I once stumbled on a Scottish discussion board and was amazed at the bad spelling) and...mary queen of the scots. Oh, and MAYBE there is actually a place I want to visit there, the Findhorn Foundation. is it there ? and if so, can we be really good friends ? --- What is the nature of Scottish involvement in world politics ? I am sure you don't know many jews, I never heard of a jewish scotsman. maybe there is one somehwere. If you are a typical Scot, it must be quite a pessimistic place ? What is the racial/tribal origins of the Scots ?

by **antiaristo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:28 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>You are strange kind of Irishman in being so obviously English. Adams is at the very heart of the British occupation of Northern Ireland, Sein Feinn are part of the government and McGuiness is a minister of the crown. Talk about betrayal.<hr></blockquote> scollon, Did you not read me last time? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>You're Irish (like John Lydon) and live in Spain.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm ANGLO-Irish, my friend. I was born in London. That means, to quote the Act of Settlement Quote: "..the laws of England are the birth-right of the people thereof, and all the Kings and Queens, who shall ascend the throne of this Realm, ought to administer the government of the same according to the said laws, and all their officers and ministers ought to serve them respectively according to the same" Now you told me you had read the Vampire of Finance thread. What is there you don't understand?<hr></blockquote> Added on edit <blockquote>Quote:<hr>where Abramoff took his clients to play golf<hr></blockquote> IR Yes, indeedy. Gleneagles. The Royal & Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews. Pilgrimage for Scottish Rite Freemasons throughout the world. If you want to understand how the Windsors and the Bushes hitched up you could find no better place to start than the Walker Cup Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antiaristo>antiaristo</A> at: 1/17/06 7:33 am

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:34 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>except for me it is part of UK<hr></blockquote> Politically it has a regional parliament but in world terms totally irrelevant. Everything else you said is pretty accurate especially the beer. generally not interesting ? Truly massive contribution to world history much greater than any other region of that size. Most American presidents have direct Scottish roots. the Findhorn Foundation I have visited several times, it is full of new age people so probably all nazis in your universe. Also Scotland is the source I believe, of the evil eye also of your own imagination. What is the nature of Scottish involvement in world politics ? We supply the whisky to every G8 conference. " I am sure you don't know many jews" I've never met anyone who said they were Jewish. Jewish people are as white as I am, without the red hair of course.. I've seen them on TV and in the movies. How would I know -do you have special handshakes or eye twitches ? If you are a typical Scot, it must be quite a pessimistic place ? Yes it is, do you have a problem with negativity ? What is the racial/tribal origins of the Scots ? Celtic, deep roots are Aryan. (I am of Irish descent myself like our English friend Antiarosto) , also Celtic. My hair has some red, yes. I believe the NI problems are actually partly racial (difference between Scots and Irish). I think the red hair is actually Irish. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 1/17/06 7:41 am

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:51 am

has ben called the vatican of the New Age. All nasty nazis up there, don't bother. Forget that they are least aggressive people on earth, take DE's word for it, they're racist scum bent on killing everyone apart from themselves. Eugenics central. ADDED Findhorn is not a place I have any wish to visit again by the way. I have no interest in, or connection to the New Age movement apart from considerable suspicion they are being lead where they wouldn't wish to go as Jesus said. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 1/17/06 8:10 am

by **antiaristo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:53 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Politically it has a regional parliament but in world terms totally irrelevant.<hr></blockquote> Sorry, that's not true. Wales has a regional parliament. That's why it's called the Welsh Assembly. Scotland has a national parliament. That's why it's called the Scottish Parliament. It also has a national church, a national legal system quite separate from England, and a High Court in Edinburgh.

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:57 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>It also has a national church, a national legal system quite separate from England, and a High Court in Edinburgh. <hr></blockquote> Yes, that was a result of The Acts of Union of 1707. The parliament is of no consquence outside Scotland and has less power than for example the state of New York.

by **scollon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:13 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>amazed at the bad spelling<hr></blockquote> How much do you have to be losing an argument to stoop to that ? I bought a new keyboard for $2 and it isn't the best. Sometimes the keys don't work especially the spacebarasyoucansee. Have I benrpped of? It replaced the one with the blank keys.

how come brittish fascists are considered "left" ?

how come brittish fascists are considered "left" ?

Re: how come brittish fascists are considered "left&quo

Re: how come brittish fascists are considered "left&quo

brittish antisemitism

Re: brittish antisemitism

Re: brittish antisemitism

nazis

Re: brittish antisemitism

scollon, pardon my ignorance

Antiaristo's Bona Fides

Re: scollon, pardon my ignorance

Findhorn

Re: scollon, pardon my ignorance

Re: scollon, pardon my ignorance

Re: scollon, pardon my ignorance

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