Personal Attacks

[barracuda]

barracuda, I have quite a few issues with your account of your support of me back in the day. I recollect you stating point blank on the misogyny thread that we should all PM Stephen Morgan and ask him to come back and this was after we'd had discussions behind the scenes about how problematic he had been.

Yeah, I disagreed ad infinitum with most of Stephen's thoughts about women. But that doesn't mean I didn't think he had good stuff to offer the forum. He's an unusually smart man. And I don't like to see members leave, generally.

You also sat idly by while Norton called me a twisted little vampire.

You mean here? C_w, take a good look at the context of that page and tell me that Christ himself wouldn't have largely ignored that remark. Or, no, I guess you mean here, where again, I wouldn't classify your own behavior as angelic. But I did intercede, you'll notice, and norton replied, and stopped his attacks. What else did you require there? At that time, the bar for what constituted a personal attack wasn't yet set to include the term "vampire". Perhaps things are different now.

Why did you see fit to post the post, above, which is obviously from c2w and which clearly drags me into the middle of this? Which of my ideas were you having a problem with that led you to sideswipe me that way?

I posted that as a favor to a friend. It happens.

[Canadian_watcher]

Why did you see fit to post the post, above, which is obviously from c2w and which clearly drags me into the middle of this? Which of my ideas were you having a problem with that led you to sideswipe me that way?

I posted that as a favor to a friend. It happens.

I didn't ask you the reason you posted it, I asked why you saw fit to post it.

[barracuda]

I don't understand the difference. I saw fit to do my friend a favor.

[Canadian_watcher]

I don't understand the difference. I saw fit to do my friend a favor.

The difference that I see is that by doing your friend this favor you antagonized at least two other people and no good came of it. So I guess to me, there is a difference between just doing your friend a favor blindly and seeing fit to do it because you thought it was a good idea.

But if there's no difference to you then that's fine, I'm satisfied with that answer. Thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts.

[semper occultus]

......ah..!....you'd almost managed to convince me about this thread atleast Mr Q but I see we're off again on another multi-page energy-sink.....the brush-fire has jumped the break ......I mean by all means every one can post what the hell they want & vent whatever they need to get off their chest but not everyone can have the last word but they'll then go off and start another thread to make damn sure they can have another go at it ...from where I'm standing I'm not seeing any healthy process that ever seems to clear the air on the board...just an ever thicker cloud of hebetudinous toxicity

[Canadian_watcher]

at least this is the place for it, semper.
I hear your frustration, though.

[barracuda]

We're just talking now, semper. It doesn't have to be an energy sink.

The difference that I see is that by doing your friend this favor you antagonized at least two other people and no good came of it. So I guess to me, there is a difference between just doing your friend a favor blindly and seeing fit to do it because you thought it was a good idea.

Ah, I see. But you may have noticed that I consider that an injustice was done to my friend. So there's that.

[Canadian_watcher]

We're just talking now, semper. It doesn't have to be an energy sink.

The difference that I see is that by doing your friend this favor you antagonized at least two other people and no good came of it. So I guess to me, there is a difference between just doing your friend a favor blindly and seeing fit to do it because you thought it was a good idea.

Ah, I see. But you may have noticed that I consider that an injustice was done to my friend. So there's that.

I don't see how that particular post can correct that perceived injustice in any way at all.

[OP ED]

We're just talking now, semper. It doesn't have to be an energy sink.

The difference that I see is that by doing your friend this favor you antagonized at least two other people and no good came of it. So I guess to me, there is a difference between just doing your friend a favor blindly and seeing fit to do it because you thought it was a good idea.

Ah, I see. But you may have noticed that I consider that an injustice was done to my friend. So there's that.

I don't see how that particular post can correct that perceived injustice in any way at all.

well, i think that:

I'll let one of the other mods address the bulk of this because it really is time for me to recuse myself from this situation,

is a pretty good start.

[especially since OP ED's passive agressive almost-breaking-the-rules approach to accomplishing this wasn't working]

[Jeff]

I've lifted c2w's suspension. IMO a week's suspension without notice should be for only egregious violations.

But it's not Bruce's fault. It's mine for not developing a protocol for these situations. I'll consult with the mods and see that one is instituted, with transparency, asap.

[brainpanhandler]

How is one supposed to separate a members views from the member. I mean if someone writes something that is stoopid and I call their opinion stoopid and point out why I think they are being moronic isn't that the same as saying you are being a moron? Which is not the same as calling someone a moron. It's not an insignificant distinction.

What if I say "your views are often shallow and poorly thought out" and then go on to provide examples with links and commentary explaining why?

What if I say "your comments consistently serve the function of inciting suspicion and paranoia" and here's why I think that?

Common sense is not always a reliable guide.

There is no substitute for case by case judgement. Not everyone will agree on every judgement. Frankly, if no one ever questions a mods judgement then that mod probably is not really moderating.

[Canadian_watcher]

That takes a unique kind of genius, that I've come to recognize as my friend, Canadian_watcher.

this part is most excellent, though.
I will likely change it to my sig line soon.

[compared2what?]

That takes a unique kind of genius, that I've come to recognize as my friend, Canadian_watcher.

this part is most excellent, though.
I will likely change it to my sig line soon.

I meant it. I've never thought I was smarter than you. You generate all of that stuff on your own.

I regret my error, but though it may have been wrong in the letter, it wasn't wrong in spirit. So. The truth is that most times, I'd probably go on to apologize further anyway, just out of respect, affection, and my version of Christian spirit, which is not quite so limbs-plus-torso-and-scalp-and-intestines for-an-eye as yours. But here's why I'm not going to:

Obviously my presence here will continue to be a disruption FOREVER - no matter what I say or do - because until I'm GONE FOR GOOD these people will not rest.

You know that's not true. You know it. You're so incredibly cruel to me that it's jaw-dropping sometimes. And I've never done a damn thing wrong to you until now. Remember this?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36259&p=503925&hilit=two+explosions#p503925

You've never been able to point to as much as a single example of my alleged bullying and persecution of you. You should actually be thanking me or providing you with one. And you should also be apologizing to me. Because before you make the most out of your brand new proof of harassment, I've got to tell you: You earned it. It was earned. And every time you bring it up, that's what I'm going to say. As I can. Because unlike you, I don't have documentation problems.

...

Hm. I'm really not mad at you. For some reason. And I definitely don't want to see and/or make you suffer at all. So I'll try to choose examples that show the abuse, criticism, taunting and insults at the milder end of the spectrum. But there are more where they came from, believe me. I don't expect the research to take more work than clicking through three recent threads.

(True that!)

C_w, nothing but love. But if I do that, it will just turn into one of those things where I have to spend pages explaining why something wasn't what it wasn't, plus all the other new things that it wasn't that come up along the way.

It wasn't important. Just forget it.

you bet.

I personally often find your argumentative style tedious, debilitating and ultimately obfuscating to the subject at hand.

and we have two other users who have had the same experience of barracuda or c2w's posts being edited without notation in the past week or so.

c2w I think you know the answers to all of your questions and this game is fucking tedious.

Everyone knows what I'm talking about, including you, so I don't need to elaborate.

Have you noticed how hard a few people are working here to SUPPRESS investigation into the weirder aspects of some cases??????

Do governments have teams of people who infiltrate message boards or not, do you think?

it's odd that so many defenders of the faith appear and just the right moment, methinks.

I'm now completely confused, but that's okay. Thanks for your response.

you're so smart that I just can't possibly communicate with you. so let's not, okay?

^^Personal favorite, golden-oldies category, sorry. (I mean, wtf did I do wrong THERE? Looks polite to me. Apologetic, even.) The others are all recent.

stop it, stop the damsel in distress bullshit.

It's not damsel-in-distress bullshit. You cause me real distress. Hurt my feelings. Stress me out. As bullying does to a person. And that is what it is. :

It suddenly occurred to me that I don't need to explain this or describe it at all - the people who have been shouted down and bullied and shut-up for their ideas already know what I'm talking about and the rest of you either do or don't but will refuse to admit to it either way.

Don't kid yourself. You've had your share of misfortune. But that's no excuse. It still is what it is.

I'll make further amends when you take responsibility for what you bring to the conflagration. Otherwise, it's back to normal between you and me, afaic.

[compared2what?]

This situation continues to get more and more mind-boggling.

I know, right?

For example, you're still ignoring every completely valid point I make, such as this one, now custom-corrected:

But name-calling isn't now and never has been a significant or frequent or chronic cause of conflict. On the contrary, as any search for words such as "asshole" or "dickhead" or "douche" instantly reveals, nobody Canadian_watcher hates does it, [when you don't intervene unnecessarily creating a problem where there wasn't one]****, it rarely disrupts the thread for as much as a single post or upsets a single poster, as (for example) here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35841&start=795#p489853

and here:

viewtopic.php?t=35447&p=478140#p478095

and here:

viewtopic.php?t=36241&p=497465#p497369

Still regret the error, btw.

But you know what? I've already apologized to you twice on this thread without your deigning to notice it any more than you have any of the several completely valid and reasonable points I've made (or any of the several gestures of friendly cooperation, etc., etc.) So yeah. I made a mistake. But I'm not the only one of us who did. And I am sick and tired of being the only party to a fight around here who's enough of a grown up to know that admitting you're wrong when you are is not all that big of a deal

So if you feel you're owed more than that, try setting a good example for me. I'll see if I can find enough faults in what I said and did to follow it. Which I'm sure I can. Nobody's perfect. And just in case you're at a loss as to where you may have gone wrong, try thinking about the OTHER stuff I said here:

f you can't comprehend that it's not only blatantly personally hostile for you to cite that as if it were characteristic when you yourself expressed astonishment over it at the time ,but also an officious, self-serving and petty abuse of power, I'm not interested in giving you any further opportunities to prove it.

In the event that you need that unpacked a little more:

Remember what you said the first time I asked for your reasoning on this, back when you cautioned me for what I said to stickdog?

C2W,

I spoke to you about the douche comment for two reasons:

1. It was an easy and obvious rule infraction. It was a personal attack, cut and dried. We just can't be calling each other douches on the board. It does nobody any good.

2. You are held in such high regard on the board (and by me as well) that your response genuinely shocked me to the point where I lost sight of any potential reasons you might have had for doing it.

You knew what I'd said to Mac then. You wrote to me about it when it happened. So you know perfectly well that neither of those remarks began to strike you as an interesting reflection on my posting habits until you had a personal reason/need to see them that way. You know it. You've always known it. And it should have been enough to make you count to ten. At least.

.But instead you've just spent several days using your position here to propagate, promote and flog your interesting documented proof that I was a chronic name-caller/trouble-maker/headache.

Like I said. Not a big deal. You lost your temper. Happens. I actually am genuinely sorry for my side of it. So set me an example. I'll follow it.

_____________________

That's all for now, except for the one apology that just can't wait:

OP ED ---

I'm so sorry that I forgot how desperately, tragically in love with you I am. Except that I'm even sorrier you reminded me.

Apologize, you asshole.


_____________

ON EDIT: Yikes. OMG. I can't believe I wrote that without noticing what it meant. I take it back and apologize. You don't do that. You do a good job. I was just trying to correct the error and stupidly compounded it. But I hope it's completely clear that I don't/didn't mean you caused problems and that I entirely take it back, apologetically.

[Canadian_watcher]

this whole thing is insane in the membrane.