Personal Attacks

[barracuda]

See? I knew we could work this whole thing out.

[compared2what?]

All right, I'm sorrier already.

Bruce --

I'm sorry I didn't hear/listen to you more receptively when you warned me on that comment to stickdog. But you were right that I should watch it for instances like both that and what I said to Mac. I should not get to feeling huffy and indignant and self-righteous enough to do that when I feell I'm under assault. And it's disgusting that I did it twice in such quick succession. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. And my apologies for being so slow to realize that you were right to do so. And also for being such a jerk to you about it. I'll try not to do it again.

______________

If this doesn't move you, it doesn't:

But I'm also sorry I didn't make the case I was trying to make here better and more clearly. Because it actually isn't personal. And it is important to me. Most simply put, it's just this: I think it's problematic to make the use of a multi-purpose word like "asshole" a bad act. It really doesn't mean the same thing when different people use it in different contexts.

And I don't say that out of self-interest. I should probably be given less rope wrt that particular word than any of the other posters whose name-calling has been mentioned and/or featured on this thread. (Meaning: Due to how I use it when I do.)

So. It's just something to consider. Or not. But I apologize for not having found a way to say it better and more civilly earlier..

[OP ED]

That takes a unique kind of genius, that I've come to recognize as my friend, Canadian_watcher.

this part is most excellent, though.
I will likely change it to my sig line soon.

I meant it. I've never thought I was smarter than you. You generate all of that stuff on your own.

for the record, OP ED knows that it is statistically likely that OP ED is [technically] smarter than the vast majority of posters on this or any other board [except those maintained by MENSA or comparative ogranizations] and that this fact is extremely hard to ignore, SAY, about seven times seventy times per each hour OP ED spends on thee internettings.

However.

and importantly, OP ED WOULD NOT WASTE OP ED's TIME VISITING ANY PLACE ON THEE INTERNETTINGS SO IRRITATINGLY OFTEN IF OP ED DID NOT ALSO KNOW THAT EXCEPTIONS TO THIS "RULE" WILL HAPPEN IN EVERY PLACE OCCASSIONALLY, AND IN SOME, EXCEPTIONAL, PLACES, MUCH, MUCH MORE FREQUENTLY.

[which is possibly somehow or another akin to the artsy and/or etc/etc related things barracuda might've meandered toward in one place or another not so unrecently that could perhaps be relevant in such contexts depending upon thee particular refinements of one's aesthetics]

[which things are also symptoms of many posters' attractions to thee aforementioned, and his-most-holy-beloved-of-gods, Mr. Wells, who shall not be forced to bask in thee further praises of said OP ED in this place as he well knows that OP ED is (at this moment) already stalking his-most-holy-beloved-of-gods Mr. Wells and most likely still has the restraining orders to prove it]

....
ahem.

[rum.]

....


i neglected this earlier, but it is relevant to the point i'm [sort of] trying to make:

[to canadian watcher, about WHY c2w (but not just c2w, Mr. Fish's suspension, albeit perhaps just, had gotten OP ED's attention earlier, as would the suspension of say, a dozen or so other posters including malcontents such as HMWs that OP ED is fond of) has a, um, a "cult" [i think you said] of devoted followers and martyrs and other assorted suchlike devotees:

I'm willing to bet that none of you have been in c2w's cross hairs, wherein she will write and re-write and edit 3 or four posts IN A ROW directed at you and demanding explanations to things you really owe no explanation for, all the while upping the emotional ante in wording that is almost impossible to follow, esp when it changes minute by minute, post by post, edit by edit. Let me tell you as someone who has received it many times from her that that tactic is a personal attack. She does it all the time. .

actually, my dear watcher, if you do some searches herE AND about for OP ED and/or OP ED's once-legal and/or now obsolete sockpuppets and/or secret identities, you may discover that not only has this happened to OP ED once or twice before, OP ED might even have learned something [once or twice] from these interactions and you may further learn that this novel experience, for someone so utterly odd and jaded as OP ED, is perhaps somehow very strongly and utterly, inextricably interconnected with OP ED's separation anxieties.

fwiw.

[seriously, consider]

_____________________

That's all for now, except for the one apology that just can't wait:

OP ED ---

I'm so sorry that I forgot how desperately, tragically in love with you I am. Except that I'm even sorrier you reminded me.

Apologize, you asshole.


_____________

:: ::

i apologize.

[Bruce Dazzling]

All right, I'm sorrier already.

Bruce --

I'm sorry I didn't hear/listen to you more receptively when you warned me on that comment to stickdog. But you were right that I should watch it for instances like both that and what I said to Mac. I should not get to feeling huffy and indignant and self-righteous enough to do that when I feell I'm under assault. And it's disgusting that I did it twice in such quick succession. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. And my apologies for being so slow to realize that you were right to do so. And also for being such a jerk to you about it. I'll try not to do it again.

______________

If this doesn't move you, it doesn't:

But I'm also sorry I didn't make the case I was trying to make here better and more clearly. Because it actually isn't personal. And it is important to me. Most simply put, it's just this: I think it's problematic to make the use of a multi-purpose word like "asshole" a bad act. It really doesn't mean the same thing when different people use it in different contexts.

And I don't say that out of self-interest. I should probably be given less rope wrt that particular word than any of the other posters whose name-calling has been mentioned and/or featured on this thread. (Meaning: Due to how I use it when I do.)

So. It's just something to consider. Or not. But I apologize for not having found a way to say it better and more civilly earlier..

I'm unrecusing myself in order to accept your gracious apology, and also to express to you that none of this was personal for me. I really don't have a problem with you, C2W, your views, your writing style, or, generally, with anything about you. I don't want to give the impression that I think I'm perfect, because I really don't, but it must be understood that we mods sometimes find ourselves in situations where we're stuck between a rock and the proverbial hard place, and that's where I found myself in this instance. On the one hand, there are rules to be interpreted and enforced; on the other hand, there are good people who I've grown to care a great deal for over the years. Unfortunately, those two aspects came together in this particular instance. Could I have handled certain aspects of this better? Probably. Have I learned from it? Definitely. Will I handle a similar situation better in the future? Hopefully.

Best,

B.D.

[compared2what?]

I'm willing to bet that none of you have been in c2w's cross hairs, wherein she will write and re-write and edit 3 or four posts IN A ROW directed at you and demanding explanations to things you really owe no explanation for, all the while upping the emotional ante in wording that is almost impossible to follow, esp when it changes minute by minute, post by post, edit by edit. Let me tell you as someone who has received it many times from her that that tactic is a personal attack. She does it all the time. .

actually, my dear watcher, if you do some searches herE AND about for OP ED and/or OP ED's once-legal and/or now obsolete sockpuppets and/or secret identities, you may discover that not only has this happened to OP ED once or twice before, OP ED might even have learned something [once or twice] from these interactions and you may further learn that this novel experience, for someone so utterly odd and jaded as OP ED, is perhaps somehow very strongly and utterly, inextricably interconnected with OP ED's separation anxieties.

fwiw.

[seriously, consider]

I actually think she's got a just complaint as far as it goes, if she really experiences it as being in my crosshairs. That's not what I want or intend. So I've been trying to keep an eye out for it. But first of all, I don't do it out of the blue for no reason. I do it in response to having what I say ignored, misconstrued or otherwise summarily and unfairly rejected. And second of all, I only do it sometimes, even then. Sometimes I do the reverse (ie -- drop it and bow out). As in:

I'm now completely confused, but that's okay. Thanks for your response.

you're so smart that I just can't possibly communicate with you. so let's not, okay?

Or:

C_w, nothing but love. But if I do that, it will just turn into one of those things where I have to spend pages explaining why something wasn't what it wasn't, plus all the other new things that it wasn't that come up along the way.

It wasn't important. Just forget it.

you bet.

So, you know. I think it's fair to say that it's probably not the whole, entire root of the problem.

But fwiw, since I do really hate having the part of what I say that's worth heeding dismissed and devalued myself: As far as it goes, I think she's got a point.

...

Although what do I know? Maybe I'm doing it now. I hope not, though.

[Canadian_watcher]

I'd like it if you would stop this dissection, please. I've done nothing to deserve it.
You imagine that I reported you, but I have not. Your fight with Mac was between you and him.
You imagine that I've insulted you in some special way that doesn't approach the insults many of us - myself included (and particularly so) - have experienced.
You act as if you don't PM me these long messages and demand things from me - I don't want to aggravate anything so I try not to engage, and I try to keep it light.
You feign affection for me but hold a gigantic grudge and much hostility which comes spilling out from time to time. I can assure you that I don't feel that way about you - I would like it if we could just exist side by side on this board and not bother each other (insofar as that's possible). Agree to disagree - that sort of thing.

Please just drop it. I don't follow you around the board, I don't PM you - when you told me way back when to never, ever PM you again I respected your wish. But then for whatever reason you started to PM me again recently. The time you asked me to "just forget it" within that thread I complied (and ironically now you're quoting that in your samples of how I've wronged you, of all things.) In short, you have called all the shots, and I've gone along with it. Fine with me. But it's never enough. I am put into an awkward position (and you know it) to have to read these slanders and speculations about myself: either I argue back and become dragged into it, or I risk letting your false statements stand as the final word.

Now here I am, asking you to please let whatever this is go. I have no ill will. I don't know what you want from me, and I know that I didn't cause this recent distress for you. So please, please stop. Can we agree to just move forward?

edited for clarity.

[compared2what?]

I'd like it if you would stop this dissection, please. I've done nothing to deserve it.
You imagine that I reported you, but I have not. Your fight with Mac was between you and him.

My mistake. But you earned it.

You imagine that I've insulted you in some special way that doesn't approach the insults many of us - myself included (and particularly so) - have experienced.

I've asked you many times for examples/citations of my bad/abusive/insulting behavior. And you've never provided any. So I don't know what you're talking about.

You act as if you don't PM me these long messages and demand things from me - I don't want to aggravate anything so I try not to engage, and I try to keep it light.

I recently wrote to you a few times at moderate length because I was incredibly upset and wanted to hash out whatever the problem was. I didn't demand anything of you, including your attention, if you didn't want to give it. You were amiable until I suggested that you had some responsibility, at which point you said you didn't want to continue. And I dropped it.

I'm not acting like that didn't happen between May 14 -- 19, approximately. So quit acting like it happens all the time. Because apart from that, it hasn't.

Please also quit mischaracterizing what I say and do in those terms like "demand," unless you can back it up with citations.

You feign affection for me but hold a gigantic grudge and much hostility which comes spilling out from time to time. I can assure you that I don't feel that way about you - I would like it if we could just exist side by side on this board and not bother each other (insofar as that's possible). Agree to disagree - that sort of thing.

You know what makes that difficult? When one of us is just minding her own business and posting on-topic and the other enters the thread for the very first time to say stuff like:

And then we've got the tattoo.. blah blah I have lived in the suburbs 'not far from there' ( yes really, she said that, like it matters, lol) and 'you can't hear' and yadda yadda

I hafta wonder WTF the point is of belonging to such a board as this, if the habit is to simply steer the herd back towards regular Fox News-town all the time.

^^Because that's what you might call ad hominem. And it's just one example. But since I'm not feigning affection for you and -- in fact -- actually like you, I'd really rather not go all out with them. I just want it to stop.

Please just drop it. I don't follow you around the board, I don't PM you - when you told me way back when to never, ever PM you again I respected your wish. But then for whatever reason you started to PM me again recently. The time you asked me to "just forget it" within that thread I complied (and ironically now you're quoting that in your samples of how I've wronged you, of all things.) In short, you have called all the shots, and I've gone along with it. Fine with me. But it's never enough. I am put into an awkward position (and you know it) to have to read these slanders and speculations about myself: either I argue back and become dragged into it, or I risk letting your false statements stand as the final word.

Now here I am, asking you to please let whatever this is go. I have no ill will. I don't know what you want from me, and I know that I didn't cause this recent distress for you. So please, please stop. Can we agree to just move forward?

For the record, all that stuff about me calling the shots, slandering, speculation, it's-never-enough, etc. is untrue, with one exception, which you earned.

But of course we can agree to move forward. I already did. And I will.

[Canadian_watcher]

I'd like it if you would stop this dissection, please. I've done nothing to deserve it.
You imagine that I reported you, but I have not. Your fight with Mac was between you and him.

My mistake. But you earned it.

For posterity's sake if for no other reason I have to wonder out loud what you mean by that. Please feel free not to explain it, though. Whichever you wish.

[compared2what?]

I'd like it if you would stop this dissection, please. I've done nothing to deserve it.
You imagine that I reported you, but I have not. Your fight with Mac was between you and him.

My mistake. But you earned it.

For posterity's sake if for no other reason I have to wonder out loud what you mean by that. Please feel free not to explain it, though. Whichever you wish.

Mostly just that when you:

(a) repeatedly accuse someone else of being a sock puppet, invisible-malicious-post-back-editor, gatekeeper, grudge-holder, oppressor and/or persecutor without providing (or, evidently, feeling the slightest need for) any proof whatsoever that any of those things are true;

(b) refuse to own, acknowledge or apologize for it;

(c) all but explicitly say that you feel all of it is justified because since you've been unfairly suspended -- speaking of long-held grudges, although I agree that "FFS" thing wasn't merited -- you think it should happen to her, too; and

(d) openly celebrate and rejoice when she's suspended

when she wrongly charges you with having been involved, you've earned both the suspicion and one (1) mistaken accusation from her, both karmically and actually, many times over.

I mean, I definitely wouldn't want you to suffer any negative consequences as a result of it. But happily, it was a one-time thing that was instantly denied and promptly retracted. So I just regret the error.
.
ON EDIT: Just to be extra clear here: I don't think you deserved it. Or that it was merited. Nobody merits being wrongly accused. That was my mistake, entirely. And I regret it, from that POV.

I'm actually just saying that you don't have enough of a grievance to have earned more of an apology than "I regret the error."

[Canadian_watcher]

I'd like it if you would stop this dissection, please. I've done nothing to deserve it.
You imagine that I reported you, but I have not. Your fight with Mac was between you and him.

My mistake. But you earned it.

For posterity's sake if for no other reason I have to wonder out loud what you mean by that. Please feel free not to explain it, though. Whichever you wish.

Mostly just that when you:

(a) repeatedly accuse someone else of being a sock puppet,

Have I said this about you somewhere that you can point to? Perhaps I did but I forget. It's possible, but I don't remember.

invisible-malicious-post-back-editor,

I didn't do that. You're confusing me with Mac again.

gatekeeper,

I don't recall ever saying c2w is a gatekeeper. Did I? I know I've mentioned a few times that it irks me that on a discussion board such as this that it seems unwelcome to take the non MSM view of some things. That's not the same as calling you a gatekeeper though, is it?

grudge-holder,

yes, I've said that.

oppressor and/or persecutor

I haven't said that though.

without providing (or, evidently, feeling the slightest need for) any proof whatsoever that any of those things are true;

(b) refuse to own, acknowledge or apologize for it;

Well, maybe I can just say this:
My mistake. But you earned it.

(c) all but explicitly say that you feel all of it is justified because since you've been unfairly suspended -- speaking of long-held grudges, although I agree that "FFS" thing wasn't merited -- you think it should happen to her, too; and

(d) openly celebrate and rejoice when she's suspended

both of those things are bogus. We spoke via PM about the fact that I'd been suspended and you never had been. That "FFS" incident was used as an example. I could have picked any one of them (there are many to choose from) Second, I thought the reaction of the crowd to your suspension was over-wrought. Because it well and truly was. They no doubt spent more time writing to and about Bruce (and me) than they ever have fighting for someone who is an actual victim of actual injustice. it was embarrassing to witness.

ON EDIT: Just to be extra clear here: I don't think you deserved it. Or that it was merited. Nobody merits being wrongly accused. That was my mistake, entirely. And I regret it, from that POV.

I didn't deserve it, but you did it anyway. And now you regret it, but not enough to stop you from taking a few more stabs at me.

Yes, no doubt about it... I can tell you truly do like me very much.

Also, I will have to look it up, but I'll bet that 'earned' will be listed as a synonym for 'deserved'

brb
okay, back.
exciting news!
Yes, "earned" and "deserved" are synonyms.

edit: I removed this part. it was too silly.

[compared2what?]

(a) repeatedly accuse someone else of being a sock puppet,

Have I said this about you somewhere that you can point to? Perhaps I did but I forget. It's possible, but I don't remember.

More than once. But I think the first time was here:

Compared to what? I can think of a few things.

For instance, compared to someone who is truly objective. Or compared to someone who was actually involved in any of the aforementioned threads. Or compared to someone with access to my PMs from Norton.

maybe even compared to someone who isn't sitting in the same room - or skin - as another poster here.

Merkel/circumcision thread.

invisible-malicious-post-back-editor,

I didn't do that. You're confusing me with Mac again.

Yes. You did.

and we have two other users who have had the same experience of barracuda or c2w's posts being edited without notation in the past week or so.

Also: Again?

gatekeeper,

I don't recall ever saying c2w is a gatekeeper. Did I? I know I've mentioned a few times that it irks me that on a discussion board such as this that it seems unwelcome to take the non MSM view of some things. That's not the same as calling you a gatekeeper though, is it?

Well. It was functionally the same for what I was talking about, which was the tattoo-says-blah-blah quote.

Especially because I wasn't in fact taking the MSM view of things. I was saying why I thought it was likelier than not that nobody would hear it when gunshots were fired inside a large suburban home in a spacious commuter suburb, in the morning, on a work day, And giving my reasons for thinking so.

That being the case, both calling me a gatekeeper and calling me an MSM/Fox-view-spouter would equally just be euphemisms for "asshole," functionally speaking.

Because saying it would just be a way of discrediting me personally instead of addressing my argument.

grudge-holder,

yes, I've said that.

Yes, you have. But you've never mentioned what my grudge is. Or why I'm holding it. Or produced any evidence of it.

So unless I'm expressing this grudge exclusively by objecting to it that you insult, abuse and attack me and going completely unheard by you, you don't evidently feel the slightest need to support the accusation.

oppressor and/or persecutor

I haven't said that though.

I'm paraphrasing. But if you look back over the last few pages of this thread, you can probably find some original language that fits reasonably well. And if not, I'd be happy to supply the exact words I had in mind.

without providing (or, evidently, feeling the slightest need for) any proof whatsoever that any of those things are true;

(b) refuse to own, acknowledge or apologize for it;

Well, maybe I can just say this:
My mistake. But you earned it.

Or maybe not.

Because I made it clear what my reasons for saying it were by providing a lot of evidence that what you'd said and done so completely, thoroughly explained why, where and how I came to think such a thing of you that it was nearly comical for you to claim I generated all on my own, using nothing but my own spiteful, ugly heart and unexampled, unexplained grudge.

You, on the other hand, are just trying to turn my one-time, promptly retracted mistake into a retroactive license for the numerous, completely unprovoked personal attacks you've made on me over months and months and months, none of which you've ever been able to tell me what I did to deserve.

Which is ridiculous and insulting. Predictable, though.

(c) all but explicitly say that you feel all of it is justified because since you've been unfairly suspended -- speaking of long-held grudges, although I agree that "FFS" thing wasn't merited -- you think it should happen to her, too; and

(d) openly celebrate and rejoice when she's suspended

both of those things are bogus. We spoke via PM about the fact that I'd been suspended and you never had been. That "FFS" incident was used as an example. I could have picked any one of them (there are many to choose from)

I wrote to you:

I get away with stuff nobody else does? Nobody? Really? I'd say people earn their own privileges on a custom-order basis, like so:

You and others treat me like shit, expect me to take it, and then blame me when I don't. And it really happens all the time. I wasn't kidding when I said that not a day went by. And I wasn't exaggerating by much either. If you don't hate me, what is that if it's not bullying? I'll be damned if I know.

And you get away with it. I wouldn't, if I tried.

And you replied:

how many times have you been suspended?
How many times have you been suspended for something you said to me?

I have been suspended at least once for saying "FFS" to you. That's it. That's all I said. So don't give me 'you get away with it' bullshit. I certainly do not.

I took that to mean that you felt your actions towards me were justified because you'd been wrongly suspended and I hadn't been. And I think that's a fair reading. It's just not a fair point. Because I had nothing whatso-fucking-ever to do with the suspension. And because you STILL haven't given any examples of the ostensibly awful, bad, terrible shit I get away with.

Except, predictably, for trying to capitalize on my one (1) regrettable error.

But I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Second, I thought the reaction of the crowd to your suspension was over-wrought. Because it well and truly was. They no doubt spent more time writing to and about Bruce (and me) than they ever have fighting for someone who is an actual victim of actual injustice. it was embarrassing to witness.

You celebrated it. On this thread, and in the lounge.

ON EDIT: Just to be extra clear here: I don't think you deserved it. Or that it was merited. Nobody merits being wrongly accused. That was my mistake, entirely. And I regret it, from that POV.

I didn't deserve it, but you did it anyway.

It was a mistake.

And now you regret it,

Yes. True.

but not enough to stop you from taking a few more stabs at me.

Wait, wait, wait.

The thing about "taking a few more stabs at me" is that it suggests that you're an innocent bystander whom I'm unjustly assaulting out of pure vicious spite.

And the truth is that I'm accurately quoting a few of the many, many personal attacks you've made on me in order to refute and defend myself against the totally unjust and completely undocumented accusations of grudge-holding and bullying that you've been making here on this thread.

Yes, no doubt about it... I can tell you truly do like me very much.

You know, a few of those quotes I just mentioned actually contain proofs of my liking you, by sheer random chance. But there are many, many others. As you know. Because I really do like you.

I accept that this is going nowhere, though. So if you stop accusing me of stuff I haven't done while denying that you've done what you have, I'll stop responding to it.

Also, I will have to look it up, but I'll bet that 'earned' will be listed as a synonym for 'deserved'

It is. Or can be. That's why I clarified.

But you're right. It is silly. I was just trying to be as un-harsh as I could.

[Canadian_watcher]

I concede my fair lady.
everything you have said and will ever say is correct. there is no possibility that you have misinterpreted or misread anything, and even if you ever did or do it won't matter anyway, because your misinterpretations will have been justified and probably brought on by whomever it was you misread or misinterpreted in the first place.
It must be that way here in this world.
Oh,
but the world is big.
and most of it isn't here.


have a wonderful life fighting your phantoms.

[compared2what?]

I accept your apology.

Also, I'm sorry if I misread or misunderstood anything in some regrettable way that I haven't already regretted, regretfully, regret, regret, regret.

Looks odd if you keep typing it.

[OP ED]

re: regret.

weird feeling isn't it?

OP ED experienced a similar sensation when drafting an earlier post in this thread. with the word "color" having been used to change the hue of the letters half a dozen times. it appeared completely incorrect to OP ED by the time OP ED finished typing the post.

[compared2what?]

re: regret.

weird feeling isn't it?

I don't know. "Regret" and "weird" are both words that are capable of enough interpretations that uncomplicated agreement would ordinarily be my natural response. So I should probably sit myself down and figure out why instead it was:

As a purely emotional state -- rather than a real, closely related but essentially circumstantial feeling that sometimes attaches to social transactions -- I'd say that it's not significantly different from wishing to be dead, as distinct from feelings that implicitly include an (alliterative) expiatory imperative, like guilt and shame.

Because my first thoughts about that question just produced images and memories associated with snowy egrets and the lyrics of "My Way" that quickly assembled themselves into something like:

I've had a few, but then again too few to mention

Except with more flying, and in the realm of thought, which was pleasant, but not otherwise obviously useful.

OP ED experienced a similar sensation when drafting an earlier post in this thread. with the word "color" having been used to change the hue of the letters half a dozen times. it appeared completely incorrect to OP ED by the time OP ED finished typing the post.

I know what you mean.