improving Israel/Palestine discussion?

[Jeff]

Is it possible? These threads always seems to end up with members either talking past or shouting at one another, and then I just want to avoid them because they get so poisonous and personal.

Like to hear any ideas you may have, or any examples you've seen from other boards.

[chiggerbit]

I haven't checked into that one, at least lately, if it's not new. Is it time for another chiggerbit pissyfit? I'm still feeling pretty crabby.

[chiggerbit]

Probably the wrong thread, but I just pissied on the Zionism thread, just for practice.

And that damned yeserafu needs warned and then banned the next time he steps out of line. He gave himself away a long time ago, made a statement insinuating that the Jews are still to blame for having killed Jesus, and he knows that I remember that statement, but he just keeps at it, only a little more subtly....barely. I've had it with him. Doodad seems to have second thoughts about engaging on the Zionism thread, so let's see what he does, since he's new. I'm going to check chlamor's posting history, see if this is a recurring topic for him/her.

It's not that I "like" Zionism, but I am fed up to the gills with the flamewars that surround the subject. It's not like there's much debate on the subject, just flaming.

[chiggerbit]

Just checked out chlamor's posting history for a few pages. Not totally lop-sided, as far as I can see.

[Jeff]

It's not like there's much debate on the subject, just flaming.

Yeah, I hear you. I think Alice has the perception that I lock and move such threads to the Fire Pit because I'm afraid of a discussion. I would LOVE a discussion!

Chlamor's fine. He's passionate and polemical but that's alright. But yesferatu is another story.

[sunny]

Sorry I'm late to the discussion.

I read the first few posts of the this one and gave up. It's like I said in another mod thread, no one is going to be persuaded, so what's the use? I don't mean ban the topic but I frankly have no idea how to make them better. One thing I guess would be to suggest people stick to facts and evidence and avoid personal attacks. Good luck.

I agree about yesferatu, he keeps stepping over the line and pulling back-"who, me?" meh.

[chiggerbit]

It's like I said in another mod thread, no one is going to be persuaded, so what's the use?

Know what you mean. Personally, I think the US encourages Israel's intransigence on the issue, and think a neutral stance would facilitate a mediated settlement---hopefully. But then I don't even want to say it on those topics because I know it will lead to another flame war. And then at times I get discouraged and think that Luttwak is right and that these kinds of dynamics just need to be allowed to go to the finish, winner take all, whether it's ethical or not. But that's only when I'm feeling without hope. Those are the times when I wonder if it might be a good thing for Iran to have their weapon, then let the two countries go at it. But the mood doesn't last. But damned if I'll say that on the board.

[sunny]

Know what you mean. Personally, I think the US encourages Israel's intransigence on the issue, and think a neutral stance would facilitate a mediated settlement---hopefully. But then I don't even want to say it on those topics because I know it will lead to another flame war.

chig, what you say makes perfect sense. Imagine if the US threatened to withhold aid until Israel sincerely attempted a settlement? We've similarly threatened other countries , why not Israel? And yes, you get flamed personally when you express reasonable opinions like that. A human can only take so much.

[Jeff]

Agreed.

So anyway, I don't have a solution. Or at least not a good one. Democratic Underground's answer is to restrict discussion on the topic to an I/P forum. I don't want that, but I understand it better now.

A big part of the problem is that the most vocal don't see a problem, or that the problem is found on both sides. What's to discuss when each side says there's nothing to talk about until the other capitulates?

[chiggerbit]

I think part of the problem is that the issue is so complex, is actually a very complicated set of issues and dynamics, that it is difficult to understand the entirety. It cannot be reduced to black and white, the way so many want to do. That's one reason that I don't have a problem with the topic coming up over and over again. It needs the repetition, in a way, to begin to understand that there are so many facets to it. Minds aren't going to be changed overnight, but maybe the "sides" will begin to get a glimmer of how complex it is. My goal is that the discussion not be so acrimonious. Once it becomes that, there is no more debate, just a trading of insults. Of course, some people get off on that.

[chiggerbit]

OMG, the professor scores a good point, and what does Doodad do? Sneaks in and piddles on 11:11's shoes, which diminishes the professor's point. Whose side is he really on?

[Jeff]

I'm going to be out for much of the day, so if other mods are around today please keep a watch on this thread.

NavnDansk posted a bit of Jew-baiting that perhaps I should have banned him outright for, but I replied with a stern warning.