History of the Orgonite/Cloudbuster Movement

[TooStoned]

Well at least your getting close in your description...

As far as going away goes, too bad this is a public forum because your imperious commands mean nothing here...

Your SYFPH attitude belies the veracity of your story, as well as a deep insight into your psychology; seek help. You may believe, but trust me when I say faith is not enough (despite what xtian prop has imprinted into your mind)

Fuck the personal bickering, again I ask why not provide the tools to someone outside of your closed circle and let them prove you are right?

Or are you afraid that you'll be exposed as charlatans?

Just provide a satisfactory answer to the question and I may very well end up supporting your claims, otherwise your bullshit has been called and any sort of command, threat, or obfuscation will only encourage me (and others, I'm sure) to challenge your claims again, and agian, and again.

[f.n.disinfo.agent]

Just provide a satisfactory answer to the question and I may very well end up supporting your claims, otherwise your bullshit has been called and any sort of command, threat, or obfuscation will only encourage me (and others, I'm sure) to challenge your claims again, and agian, and again.

yep, thats pretty much what i've been saying (though not as effortlessly concise, man I'm long-winded sometimes).

And as to the "just go away" routine, this isn't "your thread." This is a public thread which you happened to have started. If you are looking for an echo chamber then I believe you are in the wrong place...

[dragon]

f.n. says: "websites that say "i did this and this and this happened" are useless to anyone trying to see the truth."

No, f.n. Websites that say "I did this and this happened" ARE the truth, just as it was when Semmelweiss stated a new-found truth.

TooStoned says: ".... then allowing a "non-believer" to check it out directly shouldn't be a problem."

We encourage 'non-believers' to check it out. The instructions on how to do this stuff are widely distributed and easily available. Don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself.

And really, as MaryK said, the thread is here to tell a story, the history of the orgone movement. If you don't understand, or don't accept, that's O.K. What we do may not fit within the regime of "scientific investigation". That doesn't mean that the effects are not real. What it means is that not everything can be metered, measured, quantified or validated "scientifically".

What it also means is that you are being given information, a new and vital truth. If you are not capable of understanding it, then that's YOUR problem, not mine.

I made a cloudbuster. It punched a hole in the chemtrail above me. That's all I need to know. The academics can chew on that until they either understand or retire from academia; I don't care. I did this; I got that. That's all I need to know. Others have repeated this experience. If you or the academics don't understand, then that's your problem.

If you have a better way of erasing chemtrails, then lets hear it. You write your story, and it's my turn to scoff and sneer at your methods. O.K.? Until you have a better way, or even another way, then best thing you can do is can the chatter and let those who understand do their work without you barking at their heels like some hyper-charged little dog.

You set yourself up as someone who has the authority to validate an experience, and you tell us that it can only be validated using the method you select. I'm telling you that it works whether you believe it or not, whether it can be 'scientifically' validated to suit your requirements or not.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.

[TooStoned]

I'm asking for you to provide some orgonite and your meters on loan...sure we can make your mudballs (I can even go to a local temple for cow pie ash) but we can't build your meters that measure the orgone and that is what needs to be provided for any real confirmation to your claims. Even a circuit diagram and blueprints would do, I'm sure (although I wouldn't be qualified personally to build it) And I'm sure somewone could draft a non-disclosure agreement to protect your financial interests

Imagine if Simmelweis had microscopic slides of harmful bacteria swabbed from physicians hands, and then refused to show these to his skeptics. Wouldn't that be criminally negligent on his part? (after all, many lives would have been saved)

"Try it yourself", doesn't work if you don't provide all the data/tools

Tell whatever stories you want, but don't be upset if some call them myths if you won't allow/provide independent verification.

I say all this believing that EMF is harmful, and "chemtrails" may have a seed of truth to them. But belief is the operating word, and I would make no claims of "Knowing" anything other than your case hasn't been made and stinks lof self delusion/profit motive to someone like me...

[dragon]

It serves no purpose to speculate on what Semmelweiss may have done, or the reaction of his contemporaries had he done it.

I have no e-meters for sale. I don't even own one. Did not know that there was such a thing until someone posted photos. Seems like they were offerred on e-Bay, but I can't say for sure.

As for "loaning" you orgonite, no one loaned me any. I built the device to see for myself. That was a cloudbuster, and I've made dozens since then because I was able to see that they worked. I don't need some academic somewhere to validate my experience.

I don't really make orgonite devices any more, except for the occasional cloudbuster on special order and a few Triniti Wands now and then. I'm not really in the commercial end of the market. I do have some items for sale, none of which I have described here. They are mostly for people who are looking for protection against psychic or DEW attack, or have progressed in awareness to the point where these items will be useful to them.

There are vendors who make these items, I can put you in touch with them if you want. If you have an underground base near you, then I am the only person who makes Triniti Wands, and I give away many more than I sell.

I'm not here to sell, and I'm not here to convince. And I'm certainly not here to argue. I have indulged you in your childish protestations this morning simply because it suits my purpose, which is to spread information to a wider audience. Soon, I will ignore you and you can go off in a corner and mutter about scientific methods. I am here to tell a story, and to find action-oriented people who can carry on the work in areas where this has not been done.

You, sir, serve a function in the Mother Goddess' plan for us all. You keep the idea alive, and the discussion going. Those who can see through you will, and have, contacted me privately. Others will follow.

I have offerred a way to counter the actions of the NWO, a way to put power in the hands of the people. They now have a tool, a weapon if you want to call it that, a way to fight back and win. The results are visible, replicable, and beneficial. You sir, Mr.Stoned, and you sir, Mr.f.n., have not offerred any positive suggestions or alternate ways to deal with the problem.

Death, drought, and disease fall from the sky daily. I'm doing something about it. What's your plan? What are you doing?

Dragon

Z-Force Group. Arizona's Global Tyranny First Response Team.

[professorpan]

If you have an underground base near you, then I am the only person who makes Triniti Wands, and I give away many more than I sell.

How do you, or I, determine if there is an underground base near me?

I have offerred a way to counter the actions of the NWO, a way to put power in the hands of the people. They now have a tool, a weapon if you want to call it that, a way to fight back and win. The results are visible, replicable, and beneficial. You sir, Mr.Stoned, and you sir, Mr.f.n., have not offerred any positive suggestions or alternate ways to deal with the problem.

Well, dragon, the point is: You haven't offered anything beyond your claims. Can you really blame people for questioning them? Your claims about alien bases, for instance -- that you destroyed them. Well, first, how do you know they existed in the first place? I take it from from previous posts that you remote view or dowse for them. Which is, in my mind, no different than fantasizing or confabulating. And you have presented no evidence to convince me of the contrary. Because you can't.

Death, drought, and disease fall from the sky daily. I'm doing something about it. What's your plan? What are you doing?

Well, again, I don't believe you. And you offer nothing but fantastic superhero/sci-fi stories. Maybe you punched a hole in a contrail with a cloudbuster, or maybe you didn't. I presume you believe all this, but if you think you can make fantastic claims about your victories against the NWO without facing some hard questions you are in the wrong place.

[TooStoned]

I'm reducing my carbon foot print (go biodiesel, go organic, unplug from the grid!) which is a hell of a lot better than releasing the fumes and toxic chemicals that are part of your process (epoxy is toxic and petrochemically derived, the Al could be recycled into something useful, an if you've ever seen a mine for quartz crystals you'd know its not helping the earth to dig them out and ship them across the planet)

I'm sure there are plenty o' sheep to be shorn, so your email box is likely stuffed, but that doesn't mean that you are helping anyone, even if you believe your own BS ...

I'm in Southern AZ, and Gem Show is about to start in Tucson so if you're headed down this way I'd love to see one of your "wands" and test it out...

[philipacentaur]

What disturbs me about this history is that it's really nothing of the sort. Some names would be good. A simple outline? Dates? Names? Places?

You can keep repeating that there's no leadership involved in this all you want, but it seems at least some of us know why you play that game -- self-protection. That's a dangerous game when your pseudoscience comes along with quite a good deal of political and social rhetoric that, when removed from the picture, renders the mechanics and ritual moot.

This is a confidence trick, plain and simple.

educate-myself.org? How about I skip the web site full of crap and just do it the way I always have. Yeah, I think I will.

[orz]

What it means is that not everything can be metered, measured, quantified or validated "scientifically".

At least some of what people are claiming about orgonite etc clearly could be studied scientifically quite easily, and if you believe it's important stuff as you clearly do, then surely you should encourage such studies in order to further your cause?

[orz]

My main problem with all this stuff is that when I read about it, all I can see is imaginary solutions for imaginary problems.

And it's not even psuodo-science; it's more like a cargo cult imitation of psuedo-science. I'm sure there could possibly have been something in Reich's work, but the whole orgonite thing just seems like a bad fan-art rendition of his ideas done without a real understanding of the underlying principles.

[philipacentaur]

It's pseudoscience. I have much respect for the life and work of Wilhelm Reich, but that's neither here nor there as this has nothing to do with him. Nothing.

[dragon]

Hello Professor! Underground bases have been discussed before. There are people such as Phil Schneider and Richard Sauder and some others who give details and locations. There are physical clues that indicate their presence. We can go into that if anyone is really interested. Map dowsing is another way. This may not be good enough for those who are only satisfied if they see it in the Washington Post, but that's their problem.

As for confirmation of damage, you won't hear about it from Tony Snow in a White House briefing, either. We have seen tangible effects that indicate something happened under there. More than one remote viewer has confirmed their existence and their destruction. One person I know has been there in his out-of-body state and confirmed the existence of the bases, and their later destruction.

This may not be good enough for Mr.Stoned, or Mr.f.n., but that's all we have at the moment. You can accept, or not accept, your choice. I am not emotionally involved in the outcome of your process of discernment.

I say again to those two; what are YOU doing about the problem? Reducing your 'carbon footprint' will not neutralize one single death force tower, or mothball one single chemcrud spray plane.

Death, disease and drought continue to fall out of the sky.

I'm doing something about it. What's your plan?

Dragon

[philipacentaur]

Phil Schneider ain't givin' details for shit. And Al Bielek is a slobbering vampire.

[f.n.disinfo.agent]

No, f.n. Websites that say "I did this and this happened" ARE the truth, just as it was when Semmelweiss stated a new-found truth.

What it also means is that you are being given information, a new and vital truth. If you are not capable of understanding it, then that's YOUR problem, not mine.

This is untested dogma as well as a perversion of scientific history.

For instance, The Bible says Cain killed Abel, thus its the truth. nothing anyone can say or do can disprove it, i know it to be true, and since its written down it IS THE TRUTH. This is a parallel of what you've been writing (please tell me I don't need to go over the uncountable amount of fundamental fallacies in those types of statements). If you want to start a bullshit religion, statements like that are fine. If you want to discover truths about reality, those statements are mind-killers. Any third-rate david koresh can make absolute statements about truth without any evidence, logic, or justification...

And lets take a look at Mr. Ignaz Semelweis. He didn't "pronounce a new truth." He saw a problem, came up with a bunch of hypothesis, tested them, and offered conclusions.

From http://qshc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/13/3/233 :

IGNAZ SEMMELWEIS (1818–1865)
Known as the "father of infection control", Dr Ignaz (or Ignac) Semmelweis (fig 1) was a Hungarian born physician who received his MD degree in Vienna in 1844. In 1847 he was given a 2 year appointment as an assistant in obstetrics with responsibility for the First Division of the maternity service of the vast Allgemeine Krankenhaus teaching hospital in Vienna.4 There he observed that women delivered by physicians and medical students had a much higher rate (13–18%) of post-delivery mortality (called puerperal fever or childbed fever) than women delivered by midwife trainees or midwives (2%).

This case-control analysis led Semmelweis to consider several hypotheses. He concluded that the higher rates of infections in women delivered by physicians and medical students were associated with the handling of corpses during autopsies before attending the pregnant women. This was not done by the midwives. He associated the exposure to cadaveric material with an increased risk of childbed fever,5 and conducted a study in which the intervention was hand washing.

He then tested his hypothesis in controlled experiments:

Dr Semmelweis initiated a mandatory hand washing policy for medical students and physicians. In a controlled trial using a chloride of lime solution,6 the mortality rate fell to about 2%—down to the same level as the midwives. Later he started washing the medical instruments and the rate decreased to about 1%.

This doesn't need to turn into a history lesson, but as you can see, Semmelweis didn't "state a new-found truth" and expect everyone around him to bow down. He had an idea, tested it, re-tested it, then brought his results to the scientific community...14 years after his initial observation. THAT is the difference between knowledge and fantasy.

Preach if you want to, but don't distort the history of science to do so...

btw, along with the page above, wikipedia's page is pretty good as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

Preach if you want to, but don't distort the history of science to do so...

And now i'm actually more interested in the story of mr. semmelweis than your (apparent) fantasies, so good night, and good look (with those black-helicopter killer-ninja alien-underground base adventures)

(edited to clean up some minor spelling errors)

[Telexx]

The devices you're talking about have more to do with magick (and possibly electronics engineering) than 'science'.

I take the point of the above posters well enough, and I'm not into the whole orgonite cloudbusting thing, but I don't think 'magick' can be measured using the scientific method. The 'cause' in magick isn't recognised by science, so how can you measure the effect, truely?

You could say that 'magick' is just 'magical thinking' (it certainly is when you analyse it via the narrow beam of the 'scientific' method) and I wouldn't argue with you.

But calling for scientific investigation of something with no 'cause' is fruitless even if the stastics end up backing you up.

Thanks,

Telexx