TooStoned wrote:Burnt Hill:
What is sad is your blatantly transparent attempt at obfustication.
The Orgonite folks are making money of their mudballs, and by linking to their various websites here they are trying to drive up sales there.
I'm willing to bet Jeff moved these threads here because of what the Orgonite folks are doing to the credibility of this website, and not so much the comments of their debunkers.
Shame works well to control children, but adults with a modicum of learning and experience can see through bogus take downs...
Too Stoned you are mistaken in ... oh let me count the ways ...
Maryk and her brother are estranged, as she has explained here in some detail: she would in no way benefit from any of his business activities
Dragon and Maryk offer agnihotra ash for free, they only ask the recipient to cover the cost of postage and handling; their offer of ash impregnated mudballs for 20$ I would assume covers postage, handling, and the time/effort it takes to make the mudballs, thus saving the recipient the time and effort of making his/her own; to my knowledge they have never "hawked any wares" here and if you can find an instance of their so doing, please correct me; anyone who takes the time to read up on agnihotra will find that there is a great deal of dedication, commitment, and effort involved in performing the sunrise and sunset ceremonies to properly produce the ash - I find it very commendable that Maryk and Dragon are so willing to make it and send it off to others, on request, for nothing more than s/h.
Pitcairn: I've spent a considerable amount of time around "indian doctors" and none of them offer to heal people to prove their powers.
Rather their healing "powers" was widely aknowledge and people asked them for "healings" And if they were succesful the doctors' never claimed they did the work; it was the animals, or the creator, or the ancestors, or etc. but never them.
you know Too Stoned you've alluded to this before: your familiarity with native medicine and practices and culture
and I will not dispute you, nor accuse you of inflating any claims you may have to a superior understanding and "authenticity"
but I would suggest you step carefully when approaching that sometimes fine line between deep appreciation for, and admiration of, a tradition, and "borrowing" from or appropriating its authority
you have made statements in regard to these matters which, while they may be true in your experience, are not, in fact, universally true amongst all native cultures and practices - as an example, you made the quite surprising claim that no natives use or approve the term "medicine man," and that anyone who did so was suspect and likely a con
Too Stoned, that is simply not true at all; and if you press the issue I will present evidence from native sources to the contrary of your claims
and while it is true that all genuine traditional healers ask no money, and give all credit to powers greater than themselves, you posit, on no apparent basis, that Maryk and Dragon do not share these beliefs/attitudes/practices
how do you know that they don't? do you know them personally" have you had a healing from either of them? has anyone you know?
they saw a need, they made an offer
perhaps in their enthusiasm, and strong belief in the efficacy of their method, they were over zealous or indelicate, but that hardly makes them con men or deliberate cheats
there has been so much anger and opprobrium thrown at Maryk and Dragon, and the reasons given don't hold water
all the complaints about credibility of the site: now, but really, think of all the things discussed here!
the worries and disapproval and exaggerated warnings over "promotion of trespassing" and all that: people on this site also openly acknowledge and sincerely commend their experiences with illegal drugs - well, should we all worry about keyword hijacking by Homeland Security/DEA?
no, there is something else that gets under the skin of all the "rude debunkers" and I really don't know what it is; but what I do know is, all of you who find the topic distasteful could just skip it, and leave those who want to discuss these matters in peace, but you won't
why?
and Burnt Hill is right that even now, relegated to a little "ghetto" all their own, these topics draw endless harassment
it really is unfortunate and does put a damper on the introduction of many new, or generally unfamiliar, and potentially useful and intriguing subjects
one less place to come and learn something new - or old, but new to a reader here
I trust there is nothing obfuscatory in this post, despite the haste in which I wrote it