Seed exchange?

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Seed exchange?

Postby chiggerbit » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:56 pm

Annie, and I were chatting last night, and in passing briefly touched on the idea of a seed exchange. What do you think? Too many problems? Like for instance, vigilance with regards to safety in exchanging addresses? Legal restrictions, such as the kind that states like California have on certain species? Diseases? International restrictions? Discuss. I'm going to plan on saving seeds this summer, just in case this gets going.

I could do loads of Montmorency sour cherry seeds. Also woodland wildflowers such as Dutchman's breeches for shade, a wild lobelia for sunny, wetter areas that is a drop-dead gorgeous blue a little over a foot tall. Also, shagbark hickorynuts and black walnuts.

Criminy, I thought it was a little extra-noisy outside just now, went out to look. We've had a Midwest monsoon since yesterday, and I see that one of my ponds is flowing over the top of the bank, in spite of having an over-flow tube. Hope the other pond isn't doing that--the dam may not hold if it does.
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Postby Perelandra » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:16 pm

I love the idea, but IMO, these things are hard to get rolling without some core organizers. Perhaps not enough of them. The address thing freaks some out, but not others. I guess it would work informally, if we just posted a short list of available seeds and others could "shop" via PM. If one wasn't comfortable with anyone knowing one's address, one could politely decline? Does that make any sense? I try to be sensitive, but sometimes it just sounds retarded.

Anyway, the exchange idea is probably best used by folks with large and/or unusual varieties of seeds. Any experience with this?

I save some seeds and love to garden, so I'd be likely to join in. However, I don't have large quantities of anything and am not very organized. I'd be like, "you can have 5 hungarian carrot pepper", or whatever. Not a big help, more just for kicks. I'm lame, I know.

My .02.
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:12 pm

Well, here's my "want" list: the peter pepper.
"He created a desert and called it peace."
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Re: Seed exchange?

Postby myriadsmallcreature » Sun May 03, 2009 11:45 am

chiggerbit wrote:Annie, and I were chatting last night, and in passing briefly touched on the idea of a seed exchange. What do you think? Too many problems? Like for instance, vigilance with regards to safety in exchanging addresses? Legal restrictions, such as the kind that states like California have on certain species? Diseases? International restrictions? Discuss. I'm going to plan on saving seeds this summer, just in case this gets going.

I could do loads of Montmorency sour cherry seeds. Also woodland wildflowers such as Dutchman's breeches for shade, a wild lobelia for sunny, wetter areas that is a drop-dead gorgeous blue a little over a foot tall. Also, shagbark hickorynuts and black walnuts.

Criminy, I thought it was a little extra-noisy outside just now, went out to look. We've had a Midwest monsoon since yesterday, and I see that one of my ponds is flowing over the top of the bank, in spite of having an over-flow tube. Hope the other pond isn't doing that--the dam may not hold if it does.


chiggerbit...

I didn't look it up, but I am fairly certain that Montmorency is a grafted tree.

That means that growing from seed will result in a tree that is a throwback to the rootstock. It may end up looking like a bush or you may end up with the next sour cherry version of the Jonathan apple.

Here is a sample of what I mean...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 110AAuf5KR

Growing cherries from seed is a gamble. You will not know what kind of cherries to expect. They could be good or they could be hard, sour and almost inedible. Cherries require two varieties for pollination, so you will need two.

Allow the seeds to dry for a few days. They may germinate better if stored uin the coldest part of the fridge( not freezer ) for a couple of weeks. Plant in a good potting soil and keep moist. Then plant outdoors in Spring.


Charles C. is likely to be no more of an expert than I am, but this does jibe with what I understand about fruit tree production.

If you are growing the cherries for food on a subsistence level you will have to wait several years and then will likely be disappointed with the result.

Berries grown from seed will likely yield results closer to the fruit which provided them, but there is no guarantee on this either.

I have about 700 varieties of seed with 300 more on the way, as well as trees and berry bushes and am interested in being part of seed exchange movement.

In any event there are already a number of wonderful exchanges out there. Do a google search. Join an exchange, and buy some seed and you are on your way.

The Internet has been a godsend to the grow-your-own movement. Especially try youtube. Good stuff.

Good luck.

Fellow gardener,
Eddie Albert

I'm the one with the megaphone.

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Postby chiggerbit » Sun May 03, 2009 1:55 pm

Actually, I'm don't think it throws back to the rootstock itself. However, cross-pollination, even cross-pollination with only Montmorencies, is unllikely to produce exactly the same quality of tree, due to the genealogy of the tree with hundreds thousands of great-great-great grandparents' genes contributing to the genepool. Rootstock would matter if you were taking suckers, which would produce trees just like the rootstock.

I have thirty heavily-timbered acres and lots of hungry wildlife, much of which loves my Montmorency cherries, so I thought it might be fun to try to give the critters their own fruit. I'm always sticking seed in the ground out back. I even left a wide-spreading mulberry tree in the middle of my garden because it fruits over a very long period of time, so I thought it might provide a "distraction" from my garden and orchard. Besides, there's always the miniscule chance of a new "Bing" cherry. I'll have to tell you the tale of this area's contribution to that story sometime.

Oh, and I'm the Queen of England. :shock: Come on, there's no way you could be the person in that picture.
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Postby myriadsmallcreature » Sun May 03, 2009 2:16 pm

chiggerbit wrote:Actually, I'm don't think it throws back to the rootstock itself. However, cross-pollination, even cross-pollination with only Montmorencies, is unllikely to produce exactly the same quality of tree, due to the genealogy of the tree with hundreds thousands of great-great-great grandparents' genes contributing to the genepool. Rootstock would matter if you were taking suckers, which would produce trees just like the rootstock.

I have thirty heavily-timbered acres and lots of hungry wildlife, much of which loves my Montmorency cherries, so I thought it might be fun to try to give the critters their own fruit. I'm always sticking seed in the ground out back. I even left a wide-spreading mulberry tree in the middle of my garden because it fruits over a very long period of time, so I thought it might provide a "distraction" from my garden and orchard. Besides, there's always the miniscule chance of a new "Bing" cherry. I'll have to tell you the tale of this area's contribution to that story sometime.

Oh, and I'm the Queen of England. :shock: Come on, there's no way you could be the person in that picture.


According to nurserymen, the odds are one in 10,000 that the fruit produced will be of the same or superior quality as the original. It doesn't have to do with pollination, but with the rootstock being grafted onto the scion--and vice versa. Evidently it inherits some of the traits of each.

You might also consider that rootstock is chosen for other qualities such as cold-hardiness and susceptibility to fungus, etc., which may not be passed on to the seed.

Well, just saying. Take it with proverbial grain of salt.

In any case, you can almost always graft new scions onto the new tree, whatever the quality of its own fruit.

Win-win.

Do you have Prince Albert in the can?
Last edited by myriadsmallcreature on Sun May 03, 2009 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby chiggerbit » Sun May 03, 2009 2:56 pm

Nope, I just looked--caught him in the maid's bedroom.
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Postby chiggerbit » Sun May 03, 2009 3:16 pm

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/forestbiol ... apter2.htm

ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION - GRAFTING
Horticulturists have used grafting to fuse the shoot (scion) of one individual onto the root system (stock) of another. This allows the grower to take advantage of the desirable characteristics of both roots and shoots. Fruit growers often graft shoots from varieties producing good fruit onto rootstocks that are hardier or more available. While the newly grafted plant will have the desirable characteristics of both individuals, offspring will have no characteristics of the stock. Similarly, any sprouts originating below the root collar will have none of the traits of the scion. In forestry, seed orchard managers graft scions from superior trees onto established rootstocks. This allows the production of more superior seeds than would be possible by relying on a single superior tree.
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Postby myriadsmallcreature » Sun May 03, 2009 3:39 pm

chiggerbit wrote:http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/forestbiology/htmltext/chapter2.htm

ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION - GRAFTING
Horticulturists have used grafting to fuse the shoot (scion) of one individual onto the root system (stock) of another. This allows the grower to take advantage of the desirable characteristics of both roots and shoots. Fruit growers often graft shoots from varieties producing good fruit onto rootstocks that are hardier or more available. While the newly grafted plant will have the desirable characteristics of both individuals, offspring will have no characteristics of the stock. Similarly, any sprouts originating below the root collar will have none of the traits of the scion. In forestry, seed orchard managers graft scions from superior trees onto established rootstocks. This allows the production of more superior seeds than would be possible by relying on a single superior tree.


Thanks for replying. I've been reading also.

What does this mean to you?

When I said the fruit would be a throwback to the rootstock I didn't mean all the way back, but only that it would be less. But I did say it would likely result from the rootstock, which appears to be incorrect.

However, the characteristics of pathology (fungus, etc.) also cold-hardiness, which will be inherited from the scion, will almost always be inferior to the rootstock, which is chosen much for that reason.

I have heard and read from a number of sources regarding the quality of fruit from seed of grafted trees being generally inferior--moreso with some frui,t and also berries--but it must be for a reason different from the rootstock, the reason for which escapes me.

I have books on growing fruit trees, and growing from seed ('The New Seed Starter's Handbook'). I'll give a look and see if I can glean anything more definitive.

Thanks for pursuing this a little. I think it will be worth it. After all, if you are growing for subsistence (in the 'coming hard times') you'll want to maximize your production.
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