Pan's Labyrinth: The Rigorous Intuition Movie

[Telexx]

I thought it was a v.good film. The way the 'real' and 'fantasy' worlds were woven together was skillful. The brutality and hypocrisy of fascism was portrayed with great power. The fantasy aspect was very well realised and reminiscent of Terry Gilliam.

Not the greatest movie I've ever seen, but well worth a watch.

Thanks,

Telexx

[Wombaticus Rex]

Also, the ending really pissed off everyone I was in the room with, which said a lot for their perception of Magonia, I guess.

Or, it said a lot for my progress on the long march towards paranomal schizophrenia.

Either way, shucks. I thought the film operated as a very detailed and specific Rorschach test for 10 friends, acquaintances and strangers.

[Avalon]

I really enjoyed this movie, with one caveat -- I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who has been traumatized by violence. It's a beautiful movie, but it is also exceedingly brutal. The brutality hammers (literally) home the violence inextricably linked with fascism, so I think it's integral to the story and not gratuitous.

Very moving, very dark, and very provocative.

There are some violent moments that were very difficult even for those who can usually handle film violence. Towards the end, you may want to avoid seeing the details of the encounter where the housekeeper gets her revenge.

[yesferatu]

I shall try to go see it this weekend. Assuming it is around....
Never heard of it.
I hope the violence doesn't bore me. Violence in movies is always so fucking boring.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Brutally violent, ay? That has an absolute value no matter the craftsmanship used to portray it.

I'm reading the movie's website-

http://www.panslabyrinth.com/about_story.html

Del Toro is well versed in mythology and the history and forms of fairy tales, as described by authors including Maria Tatar, Jack Zipes, Vladimir Propp and Bruno Bettelheim. He drew upon that knowledge in creating Ofelia’s adventures in the underworld. “All the elements are fashioned rigorously after classical patterns: the banquet where you should not eat, the three doors, the descent, the blood, etc.,” del Toro explains.

It is an environment that conjures shivers as easily as wonder. “This fairy world has a grimy edge to it,” del Toro affirms. “Even the fairies are meat eaters!! I wanted all the creatures to have an air of menace. Fantasy is not an escape for Ofelia but it is a dark refuge. There is something vaguely embryonic about all the magic environments because I believe that fairy tales are ultimately about two things: facing the dragon or climbing back to our world inside.”

I just happened to pick up a copy of Bruno Bettelheim's 1976 book 'The Uses of Enchantment: The Meaning and importance of Fairy Tales.'

I was outraged by what I read. Bettelheim posits that the world can't make sense to a child so it is important to give them fictional narratives to process instead.

I see this as PRECISELY the problem with childrearing- imprinting mythic fantasies and diluting a sense that there are things which are true. Those irrational ideas and images are not just temporary tools like training wheels on a bike. They are formative and frequently become permanent. Just ask any 'recovering Catholic.'

Consider the much-touted authenticity of violent fairy tales. Is this a good thing for kids and our society? And I'm not advocating sheltering and insulating young minds here.

But violence and a belief in a dark harsh dog-eat-dog world is imbued in those who watch TV much more than those who don't according to research.
And WHO DOES THAT BENEFIT?

Yes, your local recruiter.

Studies of the effect of violent TV and movie images on young minds have for many many years shown that it evokes a mirror response in the audience. Just look at the copy cat effect after a suicide or a shooting.

So while I'm sure the movie is artfully crafted and compelling, when I read "oh, and this is relentlessly violent" I think to myself "then what is the benefit of watching it that outweighs the image conditioning that others say is still stuck in their head?!"

Simply, what is the point of watching brutal fiction? What do you learn? I'm interested in responses by those who've seens this film since I obviously haven't.

[Kid Of The Black Hole]

Simply, what is the point of watching brutal fiction? What do you learn? I'm interested in responses by those who've seens this film since I obviously haven't.

Have you ever seen the movie Salo?

[Et in Arcadia ego]

Simply, what is the point of watching brutal fiction? What do you learn? I'm interested in responses by those who've seens this film since I obviously haven't.

Hugh, get off your ass and go see the damned movie and quit trying to live vicariously through others. You're missing out on some serious perspective that can contribute to your gestalt..And there's no way any of us can give that to you in the form of 3rd person commentary.

It's not about absorbing brutality, the film goes way beyond that, and you're way too intellegent to not appreciate it if you gave it a chance..

[Et in Arcadia ego]

I'll even buy your damn ticket if you just go see it..

How's that for a deal?

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

I'll even buy your damn ticket if you just go see it..

How's that for a deal?

Only if I can bring along a coupla dozen friends for moral support during the scary parts.
So I'll just tally up the total and mail the invoice.

[Asta]

Has anyone pointed out that the brutalities are the actions of the Franco Fascists against the Resistance (the Commies, Lefties)? Anyone who was not a member of the militaristic Fascist party was considered vermin to be exterminated. Capitan Vidal was a ruthless sociopathic murdering monster who was willing, eager in many ways, to kill innocents over the most trivial of matters.

That's what the violence is about. Though I found it almost traumatizing (I am very sensitive to scenes of violence and I will cover my eyes as I can't bear to witness it) I understand that the years of fascist rule in Spain were horrific and we should be aware of that piece of history lest we repeat it. (Sadly, I think it is being repeated.)

[Telexx]

The violence in this film is infrequent and graphic (very graphic) - both of these qualities make the violent moments shocking because it seems real rather than stylised and glamorous as per Kill Bill or whatever. It's both real and unsettling.

There was one particularly brutal moment which had many in the audience squirming. It was not 'yeah kick ass' but 'fuck, I hope that never happens to me'.

Clearly the stark, graphic nature of the violent moments were a deliberate message: this is the real brutality of violence - do not let 1000 martial arts inspired Hollowood movies make you think otherwise. This film is the anti-poster child of war everywhere.

Thanks,

Telexx

[orz]

Simply, what is the point of watching brutal fiction? What do you learn? I'm interested in responses by those who've seens this film since I obviously haven't.

Go see it already, and THEN comment! One of the main reasons I've been so aggrivated by your posts in the past is that a large part of your M.O. is analysing movies and their effect on the population, but you never seem to want to lower yourself to ACTUALLY WATCHING THEM!?

[professorpan]

Simply, what is the point of watching brutal fiction? What do you learn? I'm interested in responses by those who've seens this film since I obviously haven't.

We have been discussing the merits of the film, in case you haven't noticed. Yes, there are some extremely violent segments, but there are also some very beautiful, touching parts. And the message is ultimately about the the importance of love.

And this is *not* a movie for kids.

What do you think of Shakespeare, Hugh? Ever seen the pile of corpses on the stage at the end of Hamlet? More pro-recruitment propaganda?

[Et in Arcadia ego]

What do you think of Shakespeare, Hugh? Ever seen the pile of corpses on the stage at the end of Hamlet? More pro-recruitment propaganda?

That's not going to win hugh over to the Dark Side, professor..

[Gouda]

There's an old adage: If the White House takes an interest in artistically rendered foreign language films, we should too - or at least ask why!

***

Oscar-favorite 'Pan's Labyrinth' director takes swipe at Bush
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Oscar_favo ... 42007.html

The award-winning Mexican director of foreign-language Oscar favorite "Pan's Labyrinth" took a swipe Saturday at President George W. Bush on the eve of the Academy Awards.

Guillermo Del Toro told a reception in Beverly Hills that he had been surprised to learn that his film, a fable about a little girl who retreats into a fantasy world in fascist Spain, had been shown at the White House.

"I imagine Mr President finding that it was in Spanish, first of all," Del Toro told an audience at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

"Having garnered praise from Stephen King, I felt it would be interesting to see what a true master of horror would think. Or a master of science-fiction if you think about the intelligence on Iraq."

Del Toro said his film, which is set in post-civil war Spain in 1944, was particularly relevant in the post September-11 political climate.

"It's good to remind people how things about your security and the good of your country can turn into absolutely horrid things," Del Toro said.

"Pan's Labyrinth" is regarded as the overwhelming favorite for Sunday's Oscar in the best foreign language category, and is already the fifth most successful foreign film in US box-office history.