Huxley wins!

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Huxley wins!

Postby erosoplier » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Let's face it, we are living out much of the Brave New World story, and MDMA is our soma.

The role 'ecstasy' has played in turning the sharpest (and dullest, and everything in between) young minds of the last few generations in upon themselves, diverting their attention away from the external world, and making it seem good and right that an inward turn be taken, could hardly be overstated.

MDMA's primary use has been as a tool of social control.

Its use as a fun-drug and a personal growth catalyst is secondary to this primary use.

It is, effectively, a chemical cage. And we now sit within the walls of this cage.
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Postby erosoplier » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:09 pm

Case in point: Kylie Minogue.

Kylie was always only ever a talented and ambitious young lass,seeking fame and fortune, and increasingly willing to use whatever god-given sex appeal she had - honing it through careful training and study - to achieve her ambitions.

The significant thing here is, somewhere along the line, the low nature of her ambitions became undetectable in her art. Even the cool people started to think Kylie was cool. And people who detested her for everything she stood for, and for everything she didn't stand for, were won over by her art itself and by the mood of the times.

And MDMA has been the chief factor influencing all sides of this equation. It made Kylie gravitate towards better people to help her make her songs. It allowed these people to help make better songs for Kylie. It made Kylie's music a real revelation for her fans, and made her music acceptable for her hitherto non-fans. And it gave prominence to the mood of acceptance of Kylie's right to be Kylie for even her staunchest critics.

The question I want to pose is, even if everybody involved thinks there's no harm and no foul involved here, has there indeed been harm done, and have we simply failed to recognise it?

There might be parallels with Madonna's career here - her music has undoubtedly been influenced by MDMA also.
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Postby NaturalMystik » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:48 pm

I would say at this point coffee, alcohol or anti-depressents more closely represent soma (or even TV). Soma is legal and encouraged by the powers that be. I don't believe this be this case with MDMA...
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Postby erosoplier » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:20 am

Twenty zero one - Jamiroquai

Twenty zero one - Where do I belong
I got my mind but I don't know where my head has gone

Twenty zero one - Baby where you been
It's pornographic, Internet, traffic on myscreen

Twenty zero one - She's just a maniac
It's not for me but my baby really needs a crack

Twenty zero one - Don't want the sex to stop
I took a pill now it's killing me to keep it up

Twenty zero one - I know what's goin' on
You wanna take my soul and change it for another one

Twenty zero one - Those liquid crystal eyes, they really suit you honey
Let me get them in your size

Twenty zero one - By twenty thirty two you can be me,
and with a little luck I can be you

Twenty zero one - Let me bless you son
Help you believe with my semi-automatic gun
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Postby erosoplier » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:27 am

NaturalMystik wrote:I would say at this point coffee, alcohol or anti-depressents more closely represent soma (or even TV). Soma is legal and encouraged by the powers that be. I don't believe this be this case with MDMA...


I haven't actually read BNW, so, erm, heh heh, that's but the first of my excuses to play fast and loose with the ideas it canvasses.

Re. soma, I think a case can be made for each of the different prominent drugs - caffeine, alcohol, etc - as candidates, but I'm not so much interested in making reality fit to the storyline of BNW as I am in heeding some of the lessons of BNW, one of which was that, in that fictional dystopia, a drug was popularly consumed which had the effect of making the intolerable tolerable.

I'm not sure what set me off down the path of pointing the finger at MDMA. Maybe, ironically, it was my desire to get out of it by taking some MDMA myself, combined with the fact that I don't know any good drug dealers and can't be bothered getting off my butt to find one.

See my language? I want to "get out of it" by taking some MDMA.

It is so nice, it's such a nice place to be, out of it on MDMA.

But taking it doesn't change the world, even though taking it may make you feel like the world has changed.

Its use may be less widespread than coffee, alcohol or anti-depressants, but it's a much more powerful drug than any of those. Coffee and alcohol are bread and butter soma, MDMA is gourmet/spicy soma.
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Postby FourthBase » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:43 pm

If there weren't such a vicious post-roll crash, I'd be taking ecstasy as often as I could afford it. Then again I've never experienced it as an escape from myself or the world. Maybe that's just me and the stubborn anti-escapist way I approach my favorite drugs and television and other "somas". A nation of ecstasy users in general would be...actually, I don't even know. Complacent and malleable? Zealously empathetic when it comes to elections and economic decisions? Depressed and borderline psychotic? But I'm not sure ecstasy use has pacified or "caged" that many people who otherwise wouldn't have been.
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Postby erosoplier » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:37 pm

FourthBase wrote:If there weren't such a vicious post-roll crash, I'd be taking ecstasy as often as I could afford it.


Me too. (Assuming I could find a dealer!). Boy it makes you feel like crap!

Only one time did I ever get the notorious suicidal feelings from it in a big way. I was sitting at work the day after crash-day, and for 15 minutes I felt something building up that I couldn't put my finger on, and then for the next 15 minutes it slowly dawned on me, with just a touch of sadness and a touch of regret, that my life was a complete wreck and that the best thing to do, the thing I'd have to do, in all seriousness, is kill myself early in order to put an end to it.

It was actually quite a satisfying experience, strangely - no agony or angst involved, just a little regret. And then the mood went away after that day and I was back to not feeling suicidal.

Then again I've never experienced it as an escape from myself or the world. Maybe that's just me and the stubborn anti-escapist way I approach my favorite drugs and television and other "somas".


It's just a fancy recreational drug for most people. Most people have already escaped from the world. Most people never grew to engage with the world in any kind of comprehensive way in the first place. Most people are just running on pleasure-seeking/pain-avoiding auto-pilot, and that's the context within which they take MDMA. It will fit in well with some narrative about them being a good, well-meaning, ever-growing-and-evolving person, but it all stops well short of anybody actually doing any of the heavy lifting that would be required if the world were to be improved. MDMA may help them see where problems lie and how the problems can be solved, but as a rule people either aren't looking for problems, or if they are they're mostly interested in personal/interpersonal problems.

And everybody - including the people who are seriously interested in improving the world - wakes up the next day feeling like shit and wondering if the beautiful vision they had the night before was anything more viable than a snowflake about to embark on a journey through the fires of hell.

A nation of ecstasy users in general would be...actually, I don't even know. Complacent and malleable? Zealously empathetic when it comes to elections and economic decisions? Depressed and borderline psychotic? But I'm not sure ecstasy use has pacified or "caged" that many people who otherwise wouldn't have been.


I don't know any statistics, but I get the impression that ecstasy use is slightly less prolific in the US than it is in the rest of the West. The US has a large cocaine supply that must find its way to paying consumers, and that may have put a lower limit on the e market there, so perhaps you may not be feeling its cultural impact as much as others are elsewhere.

To expand on my point in the OP, I think MDMA over the last 20 years has diverted the attention of the majority of the creative elite of the West - the young cool people, and the young smart people. Diverted it away from mundane politics, and towards every individual's navel. I'm not condemning the drug itself, but I am condemning the way it has been deployed.

People growing up generally grow bored with the nightclub scene, but e turned the nightclub scene into a whole new and exciting thing. England and (slightly less so) the rest of Europe was deep in the first mass wave of MDMA's arrival on the scene, right when Bush the elder had Saddam lined up in his sights. I can't help but think that things may have turned out differently, that the resistance to Bush's belligerence may have been much stronger, if MDMA hadn't been there keeping people entertained. And that goes for Junior doubly so, given the extra dozen years MDMA had been on the scene by the time he was foisted upon us.
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Postby erosoplier » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:41 am

I wish I had access to the kind of pills these guys obviously have access to. And I wish I had half their talent too.

I didn't like their In Rainbow album upon first listen, now I can't understand why I didn't like it straight away - it's yet more sheer brilliance from them imho. I dare someone to disagree with me (but listen to these songs 3 times over the next month before you do decide they're trash)!

These are the first 4 songs off their latest album:

Radiohead - 15 Step

Radiohead - Bodysnatchers

Radiohead - Nude

Radiohead - Weird Fishes/Arpeggi
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:00 am

Its ironic that I'm reading this thread from Nimbin (I'm working in the Internet Cafe here), nibbling on a cookie.

As for the OP, I dunno if you could put it down to eckkies alone.

I remember the late 80s/early 90s (vaguely tho), for a while people who took e looked outside themselves as well. I think heroin had as much to do with the dumbing down of the minds on the edge, and turning them inward.

But an association with a drug fueled lifestyle, as an end in itself - that was part of the problem. If drugs were a side issue, like coffee and tobacco are, then perhaps the whole thing would be different. There are plenty of times when I have worked on useful stuff and chain smoked (tobacco) and drank coffee non stop, but without thinking about it. Not even noticing their effects.

But their effects are to a certain extent, to clear the head and help you concentrate. they are legal accepted and no one thinks about it.

If all drugs were like that people could obsess about other stuff and get their "cool" fix some other way.

The role 'ecstasy' has played in turning the sharpest (and dullest, and everything in between) young minds of the last few generations in upon themselves, diverting their attention away from the external world, and making it seem good and right that an inward turn be taken, could hardly be overstated.


I think other things are just as responsible.

Pop psychology and "self help" or "personal developmnent", and much of the dodgy side of the New Age. The "Secret" and all that rot.

Just as responsible, possibly more so.

Feeling unhappy? Don't get political, get therapy.

I'm not saying drug use is problem free, but I don't think its as responsible as a general culture of looking inward to solve your problems. That culture has been promoted since the social unrest of the 60s.

Of course e's in combination with ideas and memes to make you look inward - that would involve a feedback loop that created (wait for it) ... synergy.

As for Kylie Minogue. I think being murdered by Nick Cave and those gold hot pants ... thats her popularity in a nutshell. (I used to go to the same nightclubs as her and Jason Donovan sometimes, back in the days right before they made it big, when they were still Scott and Charlene on neighbours. They used to sit in the corner upstairs where no one would notice and snog like mad. Most of the time no one would even notice they were there. Kylie was no different to the other 4000000000 private school eastern suburbs girls that inhabit most trendy nightclubs. About 10% of the Aussie ones her age, build and hair colour are called Kylie too, wtf is that about? I've gone out with 2 and known more.)

And MDMA has been the chief factor influencing all sides of this equation. It made Kylie gravitate towards better people to help her make her songs. It allowed these people to help make better songs for Kylie. It made Kylie's music a real revelation for her fans, and made her music acceptable for her hitherto non-fans. And it gave prominence to the mood of acceptance of Kylie's right to be Kylie for even her staunchest critics.

The question I want to pose is, even if everybody involved thinks there's no harm and no foul involved here, has there indeed been harm done, and have we simply failed to recognise it?


I spose we should allow kylie the right to be kylie, after all anything else is a bit fascist. Its not the ecky, its the cuteness and the hotpants tho. If Nick cave was allowed to bash her to death with a rock for being Kylie, then afterwards we can't really whinge about her can we.

Lets face it, if her songs got better whats the problem? (Tho thats a matter of debate in itself.) There's always been that genre of crap dance music and its always been as connected to eckies as anyone, the harm (if there's any) is in the values of that particular subculture. Those values are often driven by pointless vain consumerist materialism.

I don't think Kylie has actually extended the reach or power of that subculture's values tho.

I found this thread open when I got back from lunch, so someone else has been surfing here under my name for the last hour. I know who so it shouldn't be an issue.
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