New photo up on The Johnny Gosch Foundation site

[Pele'sDaughter]

Could also have been drugged though.

[sunny]

et:

One that would insure maximum smoke screen by pushing pedo ring focus, I'd imagine

But what could that possibly be? The only thing I can think of is if she murdered the boy and tried to cover it with a kidnapping, but there were numerous witnesses who saw Johnny that morning on his paper route.

chig:

Has anybody ever really dug into to that to verify that that court trial even happened?

I saw a partial transcript a while back, but that could be bogus as well.

et:

Who else that we know of had a child kidnapped and was sent material of a period of decades like this? There's no ransom details, no details at all that I'm aware of. Has anyone else been a recipient of this kind of thing?

Reason I ask is because if there is a ring, I would think that other parents would have received similar material.

What is it that makes this case unique in that way?

Maybe other parents have received material we don't know about. Noreen is fairly high profile, what with her book, website and getting a lot of recent exposure over the Gannon flap. Stands to reason anyone with this type of material they wanted to get out would send it to her. Plus, the kidnapping was never about a ransom.

et:

He looks neither scared nor like he's tried to get loose or even made trouble being tied up. In some of the pictures, he doesn't look troubled at all.

Like maybe he knows his captor and doesn't believe he's in real danger.

Or maybe even staged altogether.

Damn, you are really getting deep here. Are you saying Noreen induced some kids to pose like that to bolster her pedo ring theory? That's pretty ugly, but being a cynic I won't rule it out completely. Stil, I would prefer not to believe it and hope that she is sincerely trying to expose these rings.

[sunny]

Sorry I was cross posting with you Pele'sDaughter. Yes, the kids in the photos could very well have been drugged.

[Et in Arcadia ego]

Yes, the kids in the photos could very well have been drugged.

The eyes would be a bit more dilated than they appear in these photos, don't you think? When you're drugged with a sedative or the like, your pupils get very large, and I don't see that in these images. They mostly show normal, undilated red eye to me.

Another thing is the disparity between these images. I mean this one looks old, as you'd imagine a 20 year old photo to look:

http://johnnygosch.com/images/THREEBOYS.jpg

These don't look that old at all:

http://johnnygosch.com/images/000_tied-0019.jpg

http://johnnygosch.com/images/J1new.jpg

What's that about?

I'm not trying to pin this one anyone, and not trying to make Noreen my target, I just think it's a mistake to automatically assume she's not involved.

Not going to push it any further, I just have a strong feeling that things aren't what they appear to be here.

[Crow]

My gut instinct is that Noreen Gosch is getting played, big time. Though I haven't read her book, I doubt that it was really her son that she saw years later. The kids in those horrible photos don't look like her son, either.

I think that someone scary is messing with her mind and has been for a long time.

[mentalgongfu2]

I'm inclined to agree with Crow, although I'm as in the dark as the rest of us as to what goes on in Noreen's mind. I don't think she was involved in his disappearance, but she may well be getting played. As it happens, I am acquainted with Noreen's mother, but we've never discussed the case in any detail. It's not the kind of thing to bring up in polite conversation, I figured, and she's never broached the subject. I did get Noreen's number from her once, but I never called, I guess because I'd rather observe than become part of the strange goings on that surround the disappearance of Johnny Gosch.

[shefner]

[quote="chiggerbit"][quote]But we do know the truth. It is in Paul Bonacci's testimony. I know he won his suit by default, but the judge stated in his opinion that PB was telling the truth.[/quote]

Has anybody ever really dug into to that to verify that that court trial even happened?[/quote]


The transcript of this trial is available online...just google "Paul Bonacci." Its there in its entirety with all the witness testimony....it has the dates, judge's name, and court seal as well.

Bonacci's testimony is verified by many. There is no doubt there was a pedophile ring related to Larry King and the Franklin Credit Union.

Concerning the photos, I guess Noreen must truly believe that no more damage can be done to Johnny than what has already been done. To me, the photos look remarkably like Johnny. While it may not be pleasant to look at, these photos are probably the least violation that happened to these children.

Bonacci admitted that many children were drugged and photographed. Some were tied up in staged photographs that were eventually sold. The fact that Noreen has them shows that they are "out there" somewhere still, after all this time.

[stackdag]

This is probably one of the sickest exchanges on "theories" about the Gosch case that I've ever read.

First of all, on the "Camp Caribou" thing...
Jeff said he INCREASED THE CONTRAST.
To bolster his own twisted argument that it's been tampered with.

If you up the contrast on any jpeg and blow it up to huge pixelation it's
going to look fucked up. I don't even know what the point of pointing this "caribou" thing out is anyway.

You guys probably also believe that NO PLANES hit the World Trade Center buildings on 911 too eh???

Basically what I'm hearing here is that you guys think:

"Noreen killed her own son and is posting tampered photgraphs of him, or even a boy that's not him, in bondage to create a cover story for her actions. And you think that she maintains and updates her web site to further a made up story to cover her wrong doing, or to destroy the Catholic Church."

Are you fucking kidding me???!!!

First of all no one in the mainstream even gives a shit about the Gosch case! The only people that even know or care about it are conspiracy theorists! So why the hell would Noreen want to "create a false story" that only conspiracy theorists would pay attention to????

This discussion is so idiotic and so speculative it makes me sick.

Do not forget that Noreen went on a public crusade in the 80's to CHANGE OUR LAWS TO PROTECT AND HELP CHILDREN FROM BEING KIDNAPPED AND EXPLOITED.


I don't claim to have all the answers on the Gosch case. I'm not sure if posting the alleged pictures of her son in bondage is the right thing to do, but I don't know how I would handle things if I was in her situation, so I'm not going to judge it.

From my estimation she's simply posting them to get officials involved and to reopen and investigate her son's kidnapping case. End of story.

I will admit that I am dissapointed and confused about the Jeff Gannon
thing. When I heard John Decamp say he was "98% sure" Gannon was Gosch on the Alex Jones show and also hearing both Noreen and Rusty Nelson alluding to similar things on "Mysteries of the Mind" I expected something to come of it, which it obviously hasn't.

My assumption now is that Gannon has nothing to do with it, but I'm not about speculate that Noreen murdered her own son, or hoaxed the Gannon story with Gunderson just to sell books.

[shefner]

Excellent post stackdag! I fully believe there is enough corroborating evidence to show that Johnny was indeed kidnapped and became part of a pedophile ring with some very elite participants (or should I say perpertrators). Through the years, Noreen has had to learn and see a lot of sickening things. Some of the things she has explored have not panned out, but I'm sure she felt the need to pursue it anyway. If my child had his life stolen, you better believe I would pursue every idea out there--even the wild ones. I think that's why she often asks for the public's help.

Every well-known case has some crazy attention seekers looking to get on board. I also think that Gunderson and some of these other former FBI and CIA agents have some inside information that sounds so ludicrous to the public that the higher-ups don't need to "off" them, as they know people will discount them as "nutcases."

If we didn't have proof that MKUltra actually existed, would any one believe that wild story? Nah....

[dickdecent]

I have been following the Boys Town/Gosch case for a LONG time.

Stack's sentiments have already been amply represented in this thread, also, IMHO his post makes no real sense for a couple of other reasons...

Firstly, and I'm agreeing now with Shef [and probably any 'normal' poster on this board] We'd all LIKE to believe the 'straightforward view' as propounded by Stack... It's just that the surface view is VERY rarely the truth... [and can often be almost the furthest from the real truth]

No-one has claimed that NG murdered J and is now actively helping the psy-op... It's just that it has to be mooted along with all other scenarios that fit the available facts... especially in the light of some of the strange/monstrous ancilla that dogs this case to the present day. Do not labour under the false impression that any poster who puts ideas like this up for discussion is therefore automatically a spook or an idiot... they are not. It's just people trying to find a way to put this thing to bed, trying to use their own R.I. to somehow intuit a truth from the forest of bull... and that's what this thread is really about.

Secondly, with regard to the laundry bag... even if the picture HASN'T been doctored, [I've worked with comp. graphics since an Atari ST was the best machine you could buy, and like I said previously, IMO at LEAST a 70-80% chance that it HAS] why would it be posted with a comment requesting help with the ID/activities of the mystery camp?

The name of the camp [and the most obvious signs of photo-doctoring] are both clearly visible in the photo AT THE NORMAL RESOLUTION showing in any browser... added to which, [again as I mentioned previously] the webmasters own filename for that [whole sordid] picture is....?

'CAMPCARIBOU.jpg'

Now I'm no disinfo expert but I'm not blind either... I reckon I know [at least SOME of the time] when I'm being led up the garden path and pointed in the WRONG direction... so, at at the risk of boring other posters, I shall repeat myself a third and final time:

Either NG is being duped while totally in their hands, right from webmaster on up...

- or worse.

Deep down I can't bring myself to think of NG as a co-perp after all these years of feeling real empathy for her as a victim, but don't tell me I can't consider the possibility without incurring the pseudo-wrath of a cloyingly self-righteous post like Stack's

The Bonacci trial transcript is still arguably the most informative and useful hard information on the 'true story' to have been recorded. It does NOT take much reading between the lines when you look at the threats on his life and the problems he had even bringing the case, to work out that not only is his testimony VERY, VERY likely to be 100% true but that some VERY, VERY big players had the shit scared out of them enough to make mistakes and leave a discernable trail.

Personally I'd like to abduct Larry King, bind him like the kids in those sick pic's, and stick a [proportionally enlarged] cattle prod up his ass until he spills his guts... see how he likes it, then we could all get well and erase it from our hearts and minds...
but that's not very democratic... [apparently]

[MASONIC PLOT]

I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread, especially the concerns raised by Arcadia Ego and others, but I do think, from my experiences with her, that Jeff has it right, it is not really a matter of her having bad intent.

I am definitely going to relay the concerns that people are expressing about her posting those pictures so liberally on her site, perhaps knowing that others are creeped out by it will wake her up to the reality of what her site has become.

[chiggerbit]

Honestly, I don't think someone can go that far off the edge to be so perverse if they aren't involved to some degree with what happened.

I think if you look at the Staynor family, whose child Steven was kidnapped at age 7 and held for seven years, and whose older brother/son Cary became the Yosemite serial killer as an adult, you can understand how that kind of horrific experience can twist the mind into a knot. Kidnappers don't just victimize the child, they victimize the entire family and everybody who knows the family, and everybody who follows the news of the kidnappings. But frankly, Noreen's doings makes me think that deep down she actually believes Johnny is dead, so what's to lose?

[Avalon]

I think that a partial solution, to this and other relatively contemporary mysteries, is possible, though not terribly probable.

The bad could develop guilty consciences and decide to speak (as could the good but fearful), papers or other physical evidence could turn up, accidents could happen that bring things to light, solving some otherwise unconnected puzzles might yield info that was a missing link in the Gosch case.

Power and money and the most disappointing aspects of human nature work against that. But nothing is set in stone, there still are possibilities. Chance favors the prepared mind.

Gannon's come up here again. I tried to follow the extraordinarily complicated 2005 discussion in Democratic Underground that tried to figure out the possible connections between Johnny Gosch, Jeff Gannon, and James Guckert, not to mention side trips into the deaths of Nick Berg and Hunter Thompson. It consists of about 20 huge threads called the "Gannon Wrinkles," which I'd say are by far the most wide-ranging and complete information gathering I've seen on the subject online. As always, discernment about sources of information and the character of particular posters is important. There's a lot of noise in with the signal. But it's probably worth re-reading every few years to see if any of the information resonates differently with new perspectives. Things like the alleged presence of Hunter S. Thompson at Bohemium Grove, in light of his alleged suicide.

Here's one of the earlier threads, with access to previous threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 95#3218258

In order to see the full set, you may need to work backward from Wrinkle #20, the final thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 04x3269089

Poignant to see the late Andy Stephenson's original posting in Wrinkle 1 asking for information.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Well the bottom line is someone keeps sending these pictures to her and leaving them on her doorstep as she claims on her website.

[Jeff]

I am definitely going to relay the concerns that people are expressing about her posting those pictures so liberally on her site, perhaps knowing that others are creeped out by it will wake her up to the reality of what her site has become.

Thanks MP. Appreciated.