Franklin, Chaitkin, Larouche, Oh My!

by **chiggerbit** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:15 am

Sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread. I suppose, to the victims, it doesn't matter a whole lot whether it is MC or RA. But, what I'm looking for is some sort of "operational definition". For instance, is child sexual abuse the beginning and the end of the goal? What are the objectives and goals of either group? Of course, it would seem logical that there would be some overlap. That is why it would help to know where the MK/MC group gets its victims. Also, is testing one of the keys? What are some of the other criteria for MC that would not apply to RA, or vice versa? I guess I am still wondering if there is more experimentation beyond DID. Is it possible to induce "regular" schitzophrenia or other disorders? Are we only talking about individuals, or could we be talking about "group psychology", mass psychology? For instance, are we talking possibly about pop culture, advertising in which the very young are used in advertizing, the sexualization of the pre-pubscent teens? How far has the experimentation gone? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 3/29/06 10:21 pm

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:44 am

I freaked out a little from the details i included in two earlier posts, although on second thought perhaps I already said, in other times, more than that. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> I guess I am still wondering if there is more experimentation beyond DID. Is it possible to induce "regular" schitzophrenia or other disorders? Are we only talking about individuals, or could we be talking about "group psychology", mass psychology? How far has the experimentation gone?<hr></blockquote> Chigger, from my limited knowledge, namely, Israeli scene and personal take, it is possibel to induce "regular" schizo, certainly other disorders, depression, bi polar depression, (PTSD for sure, by definition). Also, in my case there was "group experimentation" involved, namely,beside my issue, there was a group involved in high school and strangely all members ended up as patients of same psychologist whose husband is CEO of one of Israel known spooki missile corps. It involved drug, sex and group dynamics. members were ALL kids of personel, with highly disfunctional families, also 90% spent long parts of the childhoon in the USA (sabbaticals) and spoke English fluent. Certainly from there you can jump to mass psych. I met only one person, who is a gov perp *psychologist, who gave me a book he wrote (fiction short stories) in the first story he describes a brilliant young psychologist (guess who..? ) from Israel, who is sent by the Israeli gov to NY to work under such a groups for mass psych (the story goes on to his sexual adventures with the daughter of the chief psychiatrist who is running the show). In the story, first interesting part is that he witnesses attempts to use mass psych to influence electoins in some hell hole. This guy WAS indeed in NYC for several years, IS a psychologists, was in secret services, and so...perhaps there is more than a grain of truth in the "fiction". --- As for "how to recognize" MC victim. Can't tell you "it takes on to know one", but I can detect sometimes. I will give you some of what comes off the top of my head as "signs"- Person should be involved in something which makes him be CLOSE to centers of power. person is NOT center of power of course, but kind of hovers around, in terms of job (or in case of women it could be her partner/handler who is close to centers of either military or political power places). -- A "sweet" demeanour, childish opennes/ constant smiling. those I know (including me) look VERY YOUNG to their age, all the time. even at 60 they will look like grown up kids, not many wrinkles etc. (maybe some hormones ?). -- those I saw - would have some history of "giftedness", not necessarily formal "gifted child" groups, but if not, than later would be excelling in something exceptionally. -- Some military/security affiliation of family or entangelement in army, friends from secret service, someone VERY CLOSE will be associatied with security. ------------- sexual problems. (perverse, or abused) VERY disturbed family relations. parents would be neglecting/abusive/estranged OR dead. -- Has some overt trauma in the past. (accident, death in the family, etc.). (in Israel, an additional "sign" - speaks good English, enough to be programmed in English). ---

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:52 am

I think some of the experiments of the 70s were precisely around "how to induce schizo", mainly selective mutism and psychosis, which together appear as schizo even for trained psychiatrists. It appears that this hurdle has been crossed decades ago and now the issue is 'viral schizo' as biological mass warfare. that's just from checking grants at Stanley foundation and seeing how 'sexy' the research on viruses inducing sichizo is these days. there was talk about some cat virus spreading schizo among humans, a while ago. don't know what happened to it, but such research is now very lucrative. -- Since Schizo is not detectible by any objective measured tests (it is a construction build on accumulation of behaviors), it shouldn't be hard to induce a condition that meets the fluid criteria. The purpose would be 1. neutralize a person 2. torture 3. assist dissociation and cooperatoin of "alters" (I use it loosely to denote split consciousness). 4. bio warfare of course (that's mass issues). 5. discreditation

by sw » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:11 am

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:34 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>They did not pick me for my IQ. That's for sure.<hr></blockquote> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> Well, still the issue of self esteem ?? Anyway, I DON"T think that initial IQ is a factor, i think the tests serve another purpose, first to get an overall assessment of perons' capacities, strengths AND WEAKNesses! Also, perhaps, to check "boosted" capacities, like photographic memory.i feel (can't prove) that several MC victims from MY generation, were experimented on with regards to boosting certain intellectual/cognitive capacities, independent from other skills. Say, you are meant to "probe" a place, learn the environment, structure, people, absorb as much info as possible maybe read stuff and remember, than you need a very good "SPECIFIC" memory, and in fact other memory capacities need to be diminshed (emotional social memory, so to speak; namely, if you do not retain social/emotional experiences you don't LEARN anything in that department and can be abused forever). So I am not sure that initial IQ is a major issue in selection. I think accessibility and availability is more significant, then they make do with the kids the collected. -- SW, I have the same sense as you about bloodlines and being traced before birth. I shared some of my thoughts about it on the board as well (although as a Jew I didn't find many useful feedbacks, to say the least). I even felt they are using occult methods for this "breeding", maybe astrology etc. But there could be several layers to our condition, one of them could be perverse occult practices among the MC perp community. (which brings me back to Biao's issue of "distinctions", it becomes murky again to lay down demarcation lines bn SA and MC in terms of cultural and philosophical roots). -- -0

by **Dreams End** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:13 am

Really interesing. And I would guess crucial for survivors still actively in danger....easier for a significant other to understand "pseudo-accessing" through phone tirades than through weird noises or code words. I sure as hell would like to know (though with my wife, I've seen no evidence of any government aspect whatsoever....but hints of RA, for sure.) *********************slight trigger warning here***************** In the last few months, we've had sex...well, quite rarely, and that's not unexpected. And on two occasions, different alters have emerged whose "job" it seems to me to have sex. The first was almost robotic and distant in her reponse (didn't emerge till toward the end, but it is still a great shame to me that I did not stop right away.) That alter did not seem to enjoy anything about the experience. Then another time, a very nice, exciting, almost like old times experience, though her reactions, while definitely showing enjoyment, did seem different. A little later she said, "I wonder who that was during sex?" Well, we sort of figured it was just a fragment who handled sex...yet it was odd because she really did seem different from any time I'd been sexual with her before. However, I was pretty floored to learn that this particular alter was also the one to come out when she was raped many years ago. I won't go into that except to say that until the DID diagnosis, she had just assumed that she had been drugged and that's why she didn't remember much. Now, how is she to process an experience of an alter "enjoying" the rape? I suppose it's possible the alter did not, but sexual enthusiasm seems to be her function. I have curiosity about the whole thing myself. She had fragmentary memories of some violence involved, or threats, anyway, and some real phobias because of them. And yet the guy gave her a ride in the morning and told her he was coming back into town the next week. So I must wonder if this story is as simple as it seems. Tragic, whatever the full story. By the way, I just read most of "Fractured Mind" by Oxnam. I would be interested to have other survivors read it. the triggering stuff, at least in terms of violent images and memories, is confined to a very short section, called "Baby's Terror". So it's easily read without that section. Oxnam is a very prominent guy...just on 60 Minutes. But there's something not quite right about the book. Given his social circles, I had to ask "why him, and why now" but it goes beyond that. What was wrong, primarily, was what was missing and what was denied. For example, when he finally got to describing the abuse as a small boy (which I won't talk about in detail) he was at great pains to say that it was only relatives on his mother's side (rather "low born" in comparison to high society, prototype WASP dad's side.) Secondly, he had a memory of one perp (never identified, but I think we are told through hints it was maternal grandparents) who ran around on a broom saying she was a witch, but in the memory she was "just joking". Whatever her purpose, one of his alters was "the witch", a very nasty sort whose job was internal punishment. Another thing that struck me was that he has this one revelation, an elaborate internally visualized search for a "library" book of memories. When he has it, he remembers (or the alter, "Baby" remembers) the abuse. It all comes out in one session. Then the shrink says no need to revisit that ever again, now we know all we need to know. Well, maybe so... But he then goes about integrating his system in such a businesslike way (actually calling them "mergers")...I don't know, it seemed to me that either the writing was just really missing the mark, or there was too much he didn't want to talk about, or, my favorite interpretation, that there's a bunch more down there that never came out. I also found it odd that he only talked about his business life, with a little comment on his past. (The book is written by various of his parts, one primary narrator but other parts contributing their perspectives.) What was odd is that at one point late in the book he meets a woman and they fall in love and he tells her he's leaving his wife anyway. I'd forgotten he was married. And he has kids. And yet in the book, except for a mention at the very beginning, he never mentions them (well, I'm only 2/3 through, but he's already left his wife.) Pages and pages about how this affected his career...but nothing about his wife. Even if this was by agreement with his ex wife to keep her and the kids out, I would expect some acknowledgment of that, with a nod toward the hell their life seems to have been together. I don't know, the whole thing seemed too pat, somehow. This guy is so prominent. Spent a cruise with Bush Sr. and Barbara, grandfather, a Methodist Bishop who helped found (I think) World Council of Churches. All this business about how it had to be the "low class" relatives on his mom's side. He was President of the Asia society and did much training for the military and, though he doesn't say it, there's simply no way he could have been so hooked into Chinese society through his studies and contacts that the CIA was not talking with him on a regular basis. Nothing sinister in that, exactly, but just gives you an idea about his social circles. So why him? why now? Is this just a personal "limited hangout"? Did he want the story known even though he didn't want to tell all the story? Does he not know he is maybe still missing big pieces of the puzzle? Or is this a way to signal that MPD is only a result of simple (horrifying, but simple) abuse, most likely by lower class relatives? Is the "witch" reference just some kind of coincidence (the abuser was definitely playing a "wicked witch" role.) The thing is, his system is pretty similar to my wife's. And the key in his system was "Eyes", a young part that cannot speak or communicate, but knew where to look for the answers. Debbie has "Sarah", a girl literally without a mouth, who cannot speak. And in a weird coincidence, the evening I was about to read the section about Eyes, Sarah emerged. This had only happened once before. I was reading a story (Pooh again...not Oz) and Wisper, the playful 4-year-old was there but got quiet. Then she had this very very blank look on her face and just pointed across the room. Well, Wisper had told me that it was Sarah who wanted the story, so it wasn't too surprising. She was pointing at an artificial flower hanging from a shelf across the room, so I asked her if she wanted it. She nodded (barely) so I brought it to her. She looked at it as if she'd never seen anything like it before, and stroked it for quite awhile. Then back to the story, and she just listened, but at one point she pointed at a picture of Eeyore doing a handstand (uncharacteristically happy because Pooh had just found his lost tail, a fitting metaphor for that moment, actually.) Clearly she enjoyed the picture and the story, but she didn't smile...her mouth stayed pretty immobile, though I may have detected a hint of a smile at the end. Debbie came back and turns out she was co-conscious with Sarah...first time ever. Like last time Sarah emerged, Debbie was left with much sadness and grief and pain, but no real sense of context to any of it. However, ALL her parts are pretty down right now, and to me this seems like a possible good sign as they seem to be sharing emotions among each other now, even though there's not a lot of direct verbal communication. She's in for a lot more rough patches. I don't know exactly what happened but I'm getting a sense, I think. I won't share my wife's real name, but even her name is...well, clue is not even the word. More like a freaking billboard. You'll have to wait for OUR book to come out to hear about that, though. Too easily identifiable (and don't know that we'll really have a book.) So there was certainly "progamming", in one sense of the word...operant conditioning, intentional induction of altered states, use of fear and trauma to create a subservient victim. And you know, as I've said before, one of the big secrets that disinfo about far too elaborate conspiracies may hide is that hypnotizing and other such techniques may simply be much easier than we realize. So they need to make it seem difficult, only accomplishable by a few highly trained specialists. In fact, to some degree, this goes on in any such abuse. I understand why sexual abuse victims don't tell, but I DON'T understand how abusers are so freaking confident the victim won't tell. However, I realize that the type of programming meant in this discussion is the creation of a set of alters to serve particular functions and most likely to do so with the total ignorance of other parts. So far, everything for Debbie tracks back to some pretty sick parental behaviors. So far, too, there's an internal consistency to the narrative that's emerging. It's horrible, whatever she went through...but I hope that there's not a whole lot more than what she's already expecting to find.

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:06 am

Thanks you DE for sharing this experience, although triggering it is also a good solid anchor to hang onto, attempting to understand our own behavior. Your descriptoin of a split part that "act anjoying" in sex, is familiar to me, i keep wondering how nobody saw through. I am connecting this "enjoying persona" with the general subservient/pleasing hanging on for dear life child, that just had to do it and appear happy, feelingthat otherwise she will die, be killed.Its the same slave, inside, but in a sexual context. Thing is, that it becomes very difficult to let go, and be present in sex. (at least for me, this has never happened, to the best of my recollection. I was always working hard to provide a service that has to appear natural, because the client/owner whatever likes it this way. -- This, to my understanding of myself, is the hardest program to heal from, because the sex circuits are very basic and constitutional, i think it is very hard to untangle them and access the programming in a positive way. Over that sex slave child, there is a whole personality, but this is perhaps the core sore. I am sure, though, that incest or other childhoos sex abuse, can produce identical behavior patterns and self-treatment that consists of internalized projections by the abuser. I felt that while abused I am encouraged or forced to enter the mind of the abuser and "adopt" his perecption of me and of the situation. Namely, something similiar to the silly "Pretender" TV series, I actually beamed my center of consciousness (the I) into the abuser, and so vivid it was, that I was able to see myself, physically as if I am situated in HIS eyes. For a long time I used to find myself, at odd times and places, looking for instance on a certain part of female body (buttocks etc.) in a way that was alien, like something took over me, until I was able to understand that I am watching stuff from my abusers' mind/eyes. It would be brief, but then I would be very confused and scared. -- In fact, this is what I feel is happening to me in the sex slave scene, I am able to osmotically sense the body/mind of the male partner and conduct myself according to his needs/desires. So, In a way I become an extension of his mind, incarnated in a body of a "real person". A perfect, very adaptable/multi tasking sex slave. Now this might be achieved in sexual abuse without MC< but I am not sure. In these issues, I do feel there is a "method" (and its not just overblowing it for disinfo) to excerbate, solidify and fine tune the natural psychological responses to trauma. The added techniques would be repetetive indoctrination, perhaps visual as well, along with drugging and hypnotism and maybe very cruel punishment (that one cannot achieve in a "normal environment")...to create this very rerliable piece of work, like I was. Namely, something that under NO conditions will be able to integrate. -- --- Truth is I am quite skeptical as to my ability to regain or create a mormal sexual persona, or just be in my body/mind (present) during sex, without Beaming myself to the other perons' mind. I have been celibate for years and kinda came to terms with that loss. Of course this pleaser frightened part will be created within any child who is severely and long enough abused. But I think that MC does involve expertise and specialty, to be able to control the mechanism, namely, slip into the shoes of the "master" and be able to manipulate the sbued person to just do whatever this person wants. Whereas, in "real life" the situation is more naturally flowing from the original abuse, namely, nobody can scientifically assume the role of the original adult mollester/abuser...if you know what I mean. So I don't think that the "scientific galore" is disinfo, i think there are specific protoccols and research into that dark area, and of course there is a person whom the perps want to perform very specific missions, not just be a slave of the guys (which is what regular perps want). Someone has to take a lot trouble and hi tech know how to systematize the control, and allow various people to "press the remote control" of the subject. taking my case, again, in order to carry a "mission" there were some series of complex commands, not all of them by same person, because of operationals needs. So how to you create the technology that allows another, new handler, to grab the remote and operate me ? there must be very clear methods that are developed either generally or specifically for that subject/that op. Again, the MC subject (if successfully operated in a context of real life, missions) is a tool, a toy, that has a set of operating manual and commands, and it has to be general enough so that almost every user can get the results from the tool. This is not "very simple". I saw how much money, and infrastructure is mobilized during such op, that's not trivial. But again, the nature of the programming and the subjects' suffering is directly related to the uSAGE and how delicate or important it is for the government.

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:31 am

<a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060327/full/440588b.html">www.nature.com/news/2006/...0588b.html</a> News Nature Published online: 29 March 2006; | doi:10.1038/440588b Scans suggest IQ scores reflect brain structure Research results reignite intelligence controversy. Jim Giles Children who perform differently in IQ tests show different patterns of brain development.© Alamy Researchers say that a remarkable data set on the developing brain adds to the idea that IQ is a meaningful concept in neuroscience. The study, which is published on page 676 of this issue, suggests that performance in IQ tests is associated with changes in the brain during adolescence. Claims that IQ is a valid measure of intelligence tend to attract angry responses, in part because of studies that have attempted to link group differences in IQ with race. In their 1994 book The Bell Curve, political scientist Charles Murray and psychologist Richard Herrnstein argued that the lower-income status of some US ethnic minorities was linked to below-average IQ scores among those groups. These were in turn attributed to mainly genetic factors. Before that, Harvard University entomologist Edward Wilson provoked outrage with work that proposed evolutionary explanations for human behaviour and individual differences in intelligence; critics called the work racist. And this month, the journal Intelligence printed an editorial note defending its policy regarding the publication of controversial papers. The note comes after a study linking IQ and skin colour (D. I. Templer and H. Arikawa Intelligence 34, 121–139; 2006), published online last November, prompted a string of complaints from scientists. Yet researchers studying IQ say the social climate is becoming more receptive to such studies, in part because it is now widely agreed that cognitive abilities are shaped by environmental factors as well as genetic ones. The latest result, from a team led by Philip Shaw at the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland, adds to the debate by linking IQ with changes in the brain over time, rather than fixed attributes such as brain size. "It's not that brainy children have more grey matter," says Shaw. "The story of intelligence is in the trajectory of brain development." Shaw's team tracked a group of more than 300 children as they aged from 6 to 19, running them through a series of cognitive tests — IQ is determined by combining scores from tests of a range of verbal and non-verbal abilities. The team also measured the size of brain structures using magnetic resonance imaging at roughly two-year intervals: more than half the children had at least two scans, and around a third were scanned three or more times. When the researchers split the children into three groups according to their initial IQ scores, they noticed a characteristic pattern of changes in the brains of the group with the highest scores. The thickness of the cortex — the outer layer of the brain that controls high-level functions such as memory — started off thinner than that of the other groups, but rapidly gained depth until it was thicker than normal during the early teens. All three groups converged, with the children having cortexes of roughly equal thickness by age 19. The strongest effect was seen in the prefrontal cortex, which controls planning and reasoning. "My first impression was 'wow, this is amazing," says Jeremy Gray, a psychologist at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. He notes that it is difficult to persuade children and parents to return for scans over a long period of time, so imaging studies are usually limited to tens, rather than hundreds, of subjects. Shaw's study raises questions that could prompt further research. His team did not look at what could be causing the changes in cortical thickness, for example; the group points out that several mechanisms — including the formation and elimination of connections between brain cells — could be responsible. Also unknown is how genetic and environmental factors contribute to the change. The study is likely to prompt discussion of the possible social applications of such results, but these are limited. The trend identified by Shaw was significant when results from all the subjects were combined, but would probably be too small to predict how an individual child is likely to fare in school, for example. ADVERTISEMENT There are also likely to be queries about whether the research should have been conducted in the first place. IQ is a good predictor of performance at school and in the workplace. For some neuroscientists, this makes the physiological factors that contribute to IQ worth studying, in order to probe how intelligence works. "There's good evidence from functional imaging studies that very demanding tasks activate the prefrontal cortex, and that activity correlates with IQ," says Shaw. "We're getting at some common processing resource." Gray also points out thatstroke metrics related to IQ can help predict speed of recovery from stroke , so studying them could lead to new therapies. But for many others, the concept of linking IQ and intellect remains socially dangerous and scientifically dubious. Steven Rose, a neuroscientist at the Open University in Milton Keynes, UK, says performance on cognitive tasks depends on a large range of factors, from emotive state to recall ability, and that the "IQ approach ignores all of these". He adds that even as a predictor of ability in school it has traditionally been put to negative ends — to weed out, rather than help, less able children. "We shouldn't go back to measures developed in the 1900s," he says. Article brought to you by: Nature other interesting links - <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8902-[b">www.newscientist.com/article/dn8902-[b</a>]<a href="http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2006/nimh-29.htm">www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2006/nimh-29.htm</a> <a href="http://info.med.yale.edu/neurobio/goldman-rakic/memoriam.html">info.med.yale.edu/neurobi...oriam.html</a>

by sw » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:37 pm

by **chiggerbit** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:49 pm

Dang, DE, you whet our appetite like that and then slap us down. Do we get to ask if it's her first name that is significant?

by **biaothanatoi** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:52 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I suppose, to the victims, it doesn't matter a whole lot whether it is MC or RA.<hr></blockquote> Well, it matters if you are trying to escape/keep yourself safe. It makes a differnece if (for instance) your perps are a sadistic kiddie porn ring or involved high-level govt corruption. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Is it possible to induce "regular" schitzophrenia or other disorders?<hr></blockquote> The answer is yes - you just need to torture someone until they experience a psychotic break. The diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia is pretty broad and lots of trauma survivors/RA survivors/people with DID get misdiagnosed as schizophrenics.

by **Dreams End** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:22 am

I agree with biao on that. Sorry Chiggerbit. Let's put it like this. Imagine you realized that if you took your wife's first name and middle initial and then added her birth month and year on the end (which is exactly what she did for a screen name she had) and it spelled out DemoN666. It's something like that...and just as obvious. No guesses, please. It's an unusual name, and to make it worse, is actually one mentioned by Anton Lavey. Sorry I can't say more. who knows if this has any bearing at all. It has always been a running joke...I just interpreted it differently in light of recent events.

by **Project Willow** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:20 am

There is a theory, and at one time I had posted some research here that could be foundational for it, that schizophrenia is also the result of trauma. The theory is that some who are born with more limited dissociative abilities develop schizophrenic symptoms. They cannot effectively compartmentalize, so the brain short circuits in distinctive ways in response to overwhelming trauma. trigger warning... Chiggerbit, I wanted to respond to some of your earlier questions too, but there is so much to say. As for the difference between ra and mc... I suppose one analogy could be the difference between amateur and professional. Ra takes place in private settings, and much as Biao described the outcome, although similar, is much less sophisticated. Although I have to say, the group I was involved in knew of the practices of mc docs, and would experiment at home sometimes. Formal mc is conducted in laboratories, or hospital settings. Procedures are deliberate and measured, victims are monitored, and the resulting programmed behavior is fairly predictable, as well as are its effects on brain activity. I would say that at least half of all programming is done to keep the victim under control, that is, to keep the victim unaware that she has been programmed. It's interesting that Baio brought up bonding to the perps as a kind of natural consequence. The mc perps knew of all of these responses and exploited them to their greatest degree. Victims are bonded to their handlers. Perps created parts who know nothing of the handler but "love and affection". Sexuality is an absolutely integral, routine component of programming. Do a good job, and you'll be stimulated, do a bad job and you'll be raped, or shocked. They can monitor arousal rates, force alters to remain in hyper aroused states and then tie that state to a wanted behavior. (Try dismantling those programs!!!) I had a memory recently and I remembered this phrase being used: "behavioral psychosurgery", and it can be very precise. I was tested for IQ at a very young age. I did too well unfortunately, and as a result I was assigned to a certain agency and my family was relocated. A sibling did not test as highly, and was not accepted. As for spotting someone, we are designed to pass for normal. I ditto the outward signs mentioned by others, but I have found survivors in every socio economic level, or status.

by **chiggerbit** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:43 am

There's no law against government-sanctioned MC, is there? That seems "significant" somehow. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 3/31/06 8:44 am

by **havanagilla** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:51 pm

after the mkultra expose, several laws were enacted to make it explicitly illegal to conduct human experimentation for non theraputic purposes and special supervision committee was formed in the senate to oversee sercret services compliance. I think the US has quite advanced legal coverage, but not enforced. There were some lawsuits (especially following Cameron revelatoins) all settled for low damages and the most frequest defense was limitation/special immunities of the secret services from tort actions.

Franklin, Chaitkin, Larouche, Oh My!

Re: biao

Re: biao

Re: the quest for induced schizo

wow....

Re: wow....

Re: biao

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Re: IQ tests, the other usage

DID

Re: DID

Re: biao

Re: biao

Re: biao

Re: biao

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