Bryant's Franklin Book Released

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Israel

Postby sw » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:53 am

Hava: I need to preface this with the fact that I know very little about Israel. I knew many Jewish people growing up so I thought knowing them meant I understood Israel. I've learned now from RI knowing one does not mean I know Israel.

My psychiatrist is Jewish. He retired around 1999. He is the first man who was deeply healing to me. When one of my 16 year old parts had decided to integrate, he asked to be Jewish before he integrated because he saw my doctor as the most honorable man ever born. He wanted to be honorable like him so he asked to be Jewish. I contacted a local temple where I live and the Rabbi agreed to meet with Matthew. He gave Matthew a white Jewish hat (whatever you call those) in the meeting because he said Matthew was pure of spirit. It was really cool. My daughter was around eight at the time and she came too. Matthew gave the Rabbi an amethyst geode that was about the size of a quarter as a thank you gift. Matthew was very happy and integrated the next day. He was totally at peace. He was very upset about leaving behind his Jewish hat and my daughter suggested he eat it. Ha Ha...

He ended up giving it to my doctor to keep for him to remember him by.

I was surprised that this Rabbi would be so understanding of this crazy disorder but later found out he was personal friends with my Jewish doctor who happened to go to the same temple.

But, back to your wonderings about the Israel emails. I wonder that too. I sent them a few saying how totally disappointed I was in them. They were not threatening emails...more just pissed and very disappointed. I said they were not Righteous Among the Nations. I sent the emails to the Mossad apply for a job site.

I sent the same type emails and information to the DOJ agencies that are specifically tasked to track down Nazi's that might have fled to America. I could not even believe that agency would do nothing.

I sent emails to the Office of Professional Responsibility and Office of Ethics in Government. I was on a roll for years.

Long story long...that rabbi was nicer than any priest I ever met. He was so sweet and compassionate. That was at Temple Shalom in Dallas. Rabbi Ken Roseman. Great guy.
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SW biggest hug to you

Postby hava1 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:55 am

i hear you, and i think i remember something to that extent you have written back then. You are doing a great job, with you own healing and the general topic and i send you a big hug wherever you are. Righteous among the NAtions, indeed.

Just to follow up on former post here i made about my police complaint in Israel. well, the accused kicked the bucket early in the preliminary hearings (of his criminal case, re bribe and sexual exploitation for blackmail/bribe)_. COnvenient for the scammers. Anyway, i took inspiration from your attitude (i do my part, the rest is not my responsibility).

have a good year !
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Postby American Dream » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:35 am

LightningBugout wrote:

How interesting indeed to read Sara Scott or Nick Bryant as they write so candidly about their respective entres into the world of RA/MC survivors. Funny. Both note openly their deep initial incredulity and disbelief and relay how they came to believe and respect survivors. What a world of difference from RI and all these folks who've mustered up the bluster to speak about the moral importance of "assess[ing]" real survivors (as if that were possible). In my month and a half or so away from here I acknowledged to myself that RI really is fundamentally not a friendly place for survivors. And fuck you if you don't agree. Because I am a survivor and that is my experience. Seeing sw post what she did and having it met with a sort of judicial request for clarification and a call-out that her citation of Kissinger is really so remarkable is case in point, for me. So with that said 'cuda will surely retort with some sort of attack or another. And let him. I prolly won't respond. Cuz I am tired of RI not standing up to the model set by people like Scott or Bryant or the Noblitts.

I'll probably run away now and hide a bit. But before I go suffice it to say -- Jeff's blog was one of the first places on the whole damn web to grapple with RA/MC in real-time, divorced from David Icke style bullshit. What has happened that so many survivors have been either scared off or faced here with assault masquerading as skepticism? Just think that over in your own head. Because the follow up here is likely to include that triumvirate coterie of three particular regulars who like to smash survivors (rather subtly I might add) all the while masquerading as wonderful libertines. You can imagine, as well as I, what the response to this post will be. Til another day and flame away. Ciao., LBO.


These are very, very powerful words- and they were, and are so needed here.

Thank you so much, LightningBugout.
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Postby chiggerbit » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:20 am

Really, buggy, you're being totally unreasonable in giving Bryant latitude but members here on the board no latitude. As someone once said:

Think about that for a moment, and you may see what a common response it is to information that transgresses our base-beliefs. Sometimes, the consequences of admitting certain realities are thought to be so grave we would rather believe a loved one a lunatic or a liar for testifying to them.
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Postby LilyPatToo » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:42 am

Well, chiggerbit, I don't know how many survivor statements Bryant had read at that point, but anyone who's a longtime poster to this board has most likely read dozens or even hundreds of them. So it seems logical to me that we could expect many (if not most) of our hearers to already have a fairly extensive knowledge base when it comes to RA and mind control.

This is one of the few sites I've found that's not Right-wing fundie but is awake and aware on the subject. If survivors are subtly (and often not so subtly) baited and invalidated here, where the fuck are we supposed to go?

That said, sw's advice about putting information out there and trying hard to disengage from the dismissal/invalidation/bullying that so often follows is excellent. I've been working on that skill for 5 long years now and I can see it's definitely part of my Lifetime Work :wink:

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LBO, picking up the "assessing/validating" caveat

Postby hava1 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:56 am

I would like to add another bit of caveat. THere has been a great deal of spin/asessing process here, so as to mount a "counter fundie" anti MK campaign. I would be wary of that as well,
Last edited by hava1 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby American Dream » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:59 am

I think we have every reason to emphasize rigour, i.e. that we be able to critically evaluate arguments based on evidence and reasoning, but also give weight to intuition. My intutition confirms LBo's sense that something is not quite right here in the climate for survivors...

Just as skepticism, FMSF-style, is not simply skepticism in the highest and best sense of that word, not all of the response to survivors and their stories here seems wholly commendable to me.

Critical thinking is very important, but it seems we are dealing with much, much more than that here...
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Postby blanc » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:19 pm

I'm going through a difficult time now, yet feel infinitely less bothered by scepticism or dismissal on RI than that from professionals in the real world. Maybe its just pessimism surfacing, but I wonder if this book will shake up any amongst the complacent majority - I wish it would.
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blanc

Postby sw » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:46 pm

Sorry you're having a hard time Blanc. By professionals, do you mean your medical doctors do not believe you? You don't have to answer, that was just a hard spot when I went to my dentist or OB/ GYN that they did not believe me.

Disbelief from family members really hurts too. Disbelief from once close friends hurts too.

Disbelief from inner parts was comical if it was not inside me. Now, there were some real big flame wars. Best / Worst quote from Host: So, if I take enough meds to overdose for a child, do you think I could kill most of them by overdosing them to death? ...how's that for working together?!

One part shredding the other parts favorite blanket or whatever they held sacred. Hogging appt time. Telling them that no one loves them and the doctors are only being nice because they are paid to. Everyone is different but I was co-conscious mostly because most of the parts disliked the others so much no one trusted the others not to be there so they were all watching. My psychiatrist said it was a very unusual dyfunctional system going on in there.

I loved children, but not my own inside children...at first. It came with hating myself and they were all myself.

back to topic....
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Re: LBO, picking up the "assessing/validating" cav

Postby hava1 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:46 pm

[quote="hava1"]I would like to add another bit of caveat. THere has been a great deal of spin/asessing process here, so as to mount a "counter fundie" anti MK campaign. I would be wary of that as well
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book lets

Postby sw » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:30 pm

People have a hard time understanding all of this stuff.

I decided to type out some of the chapters from some of the book lets I had given out at victim impact groups. Hope it helps the overall understanding of this topic.

Putting it in the Data Dump.
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Postby nathan28 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:52 pm

Part of my reasons for increasing skepticism are twofold.

First, I go back and forth regarding the extent to which RA / SRA frames child abuse in a discrediting light. That is, at the time of the Presidio affair one in ten Army daycare centers was facing charges of child abuse. But then the flagship case becomes one of SRA. What happened to the other 30+ cases? I don't know, because Presidio jumped to the top and was ultimately inconclusive, and by that I mean, Aquino didn't get locked up.

Second, and more difficult for me to understand--I don't know WTF to make of the RA complex. That is, I don't understand what I'm being asked to believe. There's ritual abuse, satanism, networks of traffickers, mind control, abduction, triggers, keywords, exploitation by the wealthy, sometimes prostitution, etc., etc. IOW, I'm being asked to believe X and Y and Z and W and V and U when all I have to go on is maybe-X. And that doesn't even get to internal inconsistencies or problems, like believing in screen memories, triggering, and recovered memory all at once. It asks me to assume things about hypnosis that are supposedly twilight-world black budget suppressed technology type stories. And so on. Look at the MILAB thread.

But then you come to something like Boys' Town and Larry King, which was simply sex slavery for the wealthy. Or Dutroux, which was sex slavery for the wealthy, murder and child trafficking.
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Postby OP ED » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:57 pm

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Postby Project Willow » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:20 pm

Preface:
I'd hate to see groups erecting barriers between themselves on the board mainly because of mistrust and misunderstanding but I too have very little tolerance left for peace making after all the recent ugliness.

Post:
chiggerbit wrote:Really, buggy, you're being totally unreasonable in giving Bryant latitude but members here on the board no latitude. As someone once said:
Think about that for a moment, and you may see what a common response it is to information that transgresses our base-beliefs. Sometimes, the consequences of admitting certain realities are thought to be so grave we would rather believe a loved one a lunatic or a liar for testifying to them.


I understand that point but I would ask people to remember that the situation is entirely and fundamentally unfair. To miraculously get through years of the unspeakable and to then be required to assuage the fear of the very community that is supposed to be helping you is a burden that is far beyond the capabilities of most people. It is absolutely fucking exhausting to for those of us who are in a place where we can manage it at times.

Isolation is the norm. The couple of people around me who understand my circumstances feel helpless and frustrated because they don't know what to do (and they're scared). The civilian world is completely and utterly outmatched and I am not exaggerating when I say I often feel like a piece of meat floundering in the middle of a very wide gulf between two worlds.

Then I have to squelch an outburst here when I see a survivor being mercilessly and continuously attacked for her, to my mind, quite understandable distrust and questioning. My own attempt to bring forth my differential experience with certain things (however imperfect it may have been) devolves into a barrage of mean adolescent references across several threads. Is torture or the idea of triggers really that funny to some of you? The other side of me, the part that gets up everyday and goes to work in spite of the death threat I got the night before, really would like to kick your asses. And believe me, she fucking could, but then what's the point?

Mostly I just want to scream. There comes a point when you can't take it anymore and you just want to scream. I see I'm not alone in that feeling right now.
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Postby Project Willow » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:24 pm

Op Ed, that is the most evil act I have ever seen on this board, ever.

On edit, ok, I saw that Aquino link thrown in here out of context and without comment, a link to a perpetrator of (which I thought was common knowledge, but apparently isn't) someone whom you have had some contention. I saw it as an attack of the worst sort. I see some context now.
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