Ted Gunderson

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Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Jim Rothstein, this is from a source that must remain unattributed, so try it on for size, fact-check as you can...

A.D.


Ted Gunderson and Jim Rothstein supposedly worked closely together on many things, including the Johnny Gosch case. Rothstein apparently says he still talks to Noreen Gosch. He was previously an Organized Crime Task Force Detective in New York and he operated at very high levels and interacted with both CIA and high ranking FBI because the focus for Organized Crime was New York City back then.

Jim Rothstein says Gunderson has been doing little more than breaking the law and ripping people off for over 20 years. Jim also said that he saw the intel on the Franklin matter several months before DeCamp was given the info. He says it was handed to Jim by Jeffrey Steinberg of the LaRouche Organization.

Jim also said he was there when Gunderson handed the DA the tapes and transcripts that were used to get Michael Riconosciuto locked up. Rothstein said he was furious with Ted for setting Michael R. up. Jim has done many, many things with Ted, and it's hard to say what team he's really playing on.
Last edited by American Dream on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:18 pm

Can't leave out DeCamp's close relationship with William Colby forged in the Phoenix Program. In the very early days of the scandal, Colby was the Franklin Committee's first choice for Senior Council.
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Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:20 pm

And what was the Phoenix Program but as horrific of a mind control program as any?
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Postby Searcher08 » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:21 pm

lightningBugout wrote:
Percival wrote:Can we really trust Decamp? I am starting to wonder about a lot of shit now. He has his hands in too many things.


I think the real question is how did he get involved in these things? Did he get radicalized towards federal corruption as a result of the Franklin investigation? If that was the case, I can certainly understand how he would've come to be involved in Oklahoma City and the Militias.


My impression was that that was what happened, based on interviews I saw of him in the last few years. He was about to have major spinal surgery as he had (has) vertabra problems. He was so weary of Franklin - he said he almost wished he'd never heard about it - he was pining for an America he had lost.

I think deCamp is a very good person - and that the personal cost he and his family have paid has been huge.
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Postby lightningBugout » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:21 pm

Jeff wrote:Can't leave out DeCamp's close relationship with William Colby forged in the Phoenix Program. In the very early days of the scandal, Colby was the Franklin Committee's first choice for Senior Council.


Or Aquino's apparent fear of DeCamp. I read somewhere (here? Jeff's book?) about Aquino backing out of an RA-debunking radio show when he heard DeCamp, who had known him in Vietnam, was going to appear as well.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
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Postby Percival » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:28 pm

Jeff wrote:Can't leave out DeCamp's close relationship with William Colby forged in the Phoenix Program. In the very early days of the scandal, Colby was the Franklin Committee's first choice for Senior Council.


Jesus Christ, its all so incestuous.
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Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:39 pm

lightningBugout wrote:
I read somewhere (here? Jeff's book?) about Aquino backing out of an RA-debunking radio show when he heard DeCamp, who had known him in Vietnam, was going to appear as well.

Given how notoriously vindictive, and litigious, Aquino is known to be, the fact that DeCamp made very serious criminal allegations agains Aquino and then had Aquino running from him is cause for pause, at minimum.

Shades of Cathy O'Brien...

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Postby American Dream » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:07 pm

These citations may be useful in that they describe some of the larger milieu in which Gunderson, DeCamp, Rothstein, Gritz et al. operate.

Trustworthy champions of truth?

I don't personally think so...


From the Mae Brussell Collection, Virginia McCullough, curator:

Who is LaRouche and What does he Want?

BY MARK EVANS



Buried in the Lyndon LaRouche/U.S. Labor Party file at the Data Center, the off-Broadway media/research outlet on 19th Street in Oakland, is a curious document dated January 16, 1981, in which the late Larry MacDonald, Congressman from Georgia and John Birch Society elder, read some interesting comments regarding LaRouche and his organization into the Congressional Record: "The NCLC," said MacDonald, "is a closed band, but one with its own unique twist that makes it as bizarre among political groupings as a Mobius strip is among geometric figures." This phenomenon of the pot calling the kettle black is typical in the factional fighting among the political cults, not only on the Right, but across the political spectrum. The Right, we should recognize, is not monolithic.

Depending on whom you believe, Larry MacDonald himself is alive (John Judge) or dead (most of the media). The late Mae Brussel, researcher par excellence, in an exposé of MacDonald and his associates published in the February '84 Hustler, made a strong case that Larry MacDonald and KAL 007 were taken out, not by the Russians, but by the CIA because MacDonald, whose neo-Nazi connections had begun to surface, had become a liability to his old friend Ronald Reagan. Be that as it may, mulling over MacDonald's evocation of the image of the Mobius strip regarding LaRouche, I decided that the Mobius strip is an apt geometric metaphor for the whole political spectrum.

Lyndon LaRouche, aka "Lyn Marcus" (1922-), an ex-Trotskyist (and ex-Wall Street economic consultant, who retired in 1964 with a cool million at the age of 42), was the economic theoretician and father confessor to the "National Caucus of Labor Committees" (the NCLC), which originated within the Columbia University chapter of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). The NCLC began as a neo-Marxian sect. Lyn Marcus was teaching an admixture of Gaussian and Riemannian physics grafted onto Marx in a loft in Greenwich Village, beginning in the Summer of 1966, under the auspices of the Free University of New York, an entity similar to the Open Exchange of San Francisco. Because he was witty, and by all accounts, "one of the more entertaining speakers on the Left" at that time, Lyn Marcus attracted a number of fairly bright, economically oriented, Greenwich Village radicals. After a couple of summer-sessions, he sent his newly recruited cadres uptown to Columbia University to join the SDS.

The "Labor Committees" were involved in the student strike at Columbia in the Spring of 1968. They are mentioned in The Strawberry Statement, James Kunan's topical work on the subject. In the fall of '68, the Labor Committees were kicked out of the Columbia University SDS by Mark Rudd and Bernadine Dorhn, who went on to found the Weather Underground, the wild-in-the-streets, cultural radical Maoists. After the big split in SDS at the Chicago convention in the summer of '69, the NCLC went back into SDS to become the inside opposition to the Progressive Labor (PL) faction who retained the mailing lists and the name SDS in the struggle that followed the split. The PL faction, "bow-tie Maoists," followed Milt Rosen, who followed Chairman Mao, while the NCLC followed "Chairman Lyn." Sometime during 1971-72, the NCLC positioned themselves to the left of the PL, essentially by accusing them of being the "running dog lackeys" for Rockefeller and the British Crown, which is another whole story in itself.

Sometime during 1973, "Lyn Marcus" proposed a united front with the Communist Party and the Socialist Workers Party, with himself as the head of a new "revitalized" left. After this proposal was rejected by those formations, the NCLC, under LaRouche, proclaimed themselves to be the true "Revolutionary Vanguard" and proceeded to physically attack members of the CP and the SWP ("Operation Mop-up") during the Spring of 1974. Subsequently, upon finding themselves ostracized out of the Left and the Revolution slipping out of their grasp, the NCLC, during 1975-76, "rediscovered" the American Revolution just in time for the Bicentennial and formed a united front with Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby. The LaRouchies were loosely allied with the Liberty Lobby throughout the late seventies, but broke with them when Willis Carto, in the winter of 1979, embarked on his campaign of "Holocaust Revisionism," denying that six million Jews were murdered by Hitler.

After 1976, LaRouche and his followers graduated from Marxism into being born-again Hamiltonians when they "discovered" that all of Marx's best ideas were supposedly lifted (without so much as an acknowledgment), from Alexander Hamilton. Their version of how they arrived at this collective conclusion was presented in The Civil War and the American System, by the Afro-American LaRouchian historian, Allen Salisbury. Since the early eighties, when they were eager Reagan-boosters, attending American Legion conventions and glad-handing Legionnaires, the LaRouchies have done some fancy footwork and have mellowed into "conservative" JFK-style "Democrats."

The spectacle of this whole process may indicate that the political spectrum is not a line-segment, as is commonly believed. After all, any line segment or strip of paper sufficiently long may be coaxed into a circle. A circle, coming undone, may also be twisted into a Mobius strip. Therefore, the two most appropriate descriptions of the political spectrum seem to be (1) the merry-go-round and (2) the Mobius strip. The whole spectrum resembles a continuum where both sides eventually become the same side or one side eventually becomes both sides, depending on the way you look at it.

LaRouche himself and the NCLC are worth studying as a point of reference, not only because they are prima facie evidence of the twisted nature of the political spectrum, but also because, as a highly sophisticated intelligence front and economic cult, they have held shifting positions over the years on various issues. Evolving into a synthetic political cosmology, they have developed a weltanshauung that addresses almost every subject under the sun. The LaRouchies have identified and embraced some of the genuine high points of Western culture, like Plato, the Golden Renaissance in Florence, and the music of Bach and Beethoven. At the same time, the LaRouchian political analysis represents a species of "modified limited hangout," fulfilling the Buddhist maxim of "hiding in the open" what the ruling class wishes to conceal.

LaRouche seems to have been assigned the role of "Joker" in the political deck. Most of the Left consider him a fascist. The Heritage Foundation, however, in the '80s, stated that the NCLC was a wing of the STASI (East German Military Intelligence). The Media, owned by the very "Oligarchy " that the LaRouchies so articulately "expose," also comes at them screaming. Many of the various programs which the LaRouchies advocate (such as the AIDS Quarantine, the MX Missile, Star Wars/S.D.I. and Nuclear smokestacks as a viable energy-source) are odious to most Liberals, Progressives and Greens. LaRouchian advocacy of these programs also is a strong indication that the group functions as a shill for the Military -Industrial Complex. These bizarre contradictions effectively contain the deep information that is often hung out on the LaRouche clothesline.

Mae Brussel, who for the better part of 17 years (1971-1988) conducted a weekly 60-minute radio program on KAZU in Pacific Grove, California, unraveling the full ramifications of the assassination of JFK, stated off camera that the LaRouche material is about 80% "deeply factual" (comparable to the information found in Covert Action Quarterly ) and about 20% "rat poison." In other words, at the core of the NCLC (as with other political cults) probably 20 members or less actually see the "big picture," while 95% of the group-true-believer types, the "drones"-man tables and phone lines, do research, write stories, and believe they are on the side of the angels "fighting the Oligarchy." Meanwhile, a monkey wrench gang in the editorial department determine the party line and put a spin on the aggregate to make it unpalatable with 90% of the public.

Mae Brussel, who inspired a whole generation of researchers (sometimes known as "Brussel Sprouts") taught her disciples to read everything across the whole political spectrum and to sift and weigh all pieces of information as separate elements of the collective aggregate. She taught us to compare everything with every other thing and to work out the contradictions between the various voices that speak conflicting things because everything means something and nothing is without significance. If we use our heads, we can eventually find the whole truth. Reality is the total synthesis of all the voices, past and present, and in politics (polis being the city or society at large), every political faction contains a certain amount of truth as well as varying degrees of error. This is the main difference between the followers of Mae Brussell and the followers of Chip Berlet. Mae told us to study everything and to learn how to discern what is real from what is not. Chip Berlet, on the other hand, whose sudden prominence and cachet on the progressive political scene portends a dangerous tendency which might aptly be called Neo-Mugwump or left-wing McCarthyism, implies by innuendo that all information hanging out in right wing journals is ipso facto false, at best tainted, and those caught reading it are de facto, polluted. Certain people, it seems-a new class of "experts"-have elected themselves to be the intellectual food-tasters and the watch-dogs for the rest of us. The new shibboleth seems to be, "I am not now, nor have I ever been a reader of politically incorrect literature or a person who talks to politically incorrect people."

Chip Berlet and his sidekick Dennis King, author of Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism, have made careers out of their postgraduate preoccupation of being "LaRouche watchers." To them, Lyndon LaRouche, recently released from prison, is the Great Beast. Berlet and King's own political trajectory, in shades of The Big Chill, led from Chairman Mao to Yippie, to Yuppie writing for the Reader's Digest-a path parallel in its revisionism and no less bizarre than that of the despised object of their fixated animosity, LaRouche himself. Curiously, in the course of their careers and after debriefing presumably dozens of former NCLC members, they have never been able to come up with the scoop of where the LaRouche money comes from.

That's easy-the money comes from Rockefeller-at least $10 million dollars of an original package of seed money did, to expand the NCLC, to buy telexes, computers, and printing presses in the early seventies (probably, circa 1971). The persistent, though unsubstantiated rumor to this effect, which oddly enough, Berlet, King, & Co. have never reported, was confirmed in early 1973 by a high-ranking "Caucusoid" in a candid moment to a professor of Afro-American Studies in Rochester, New York, in the privacy of the professor's home. Robert Veenis, present at this meeting in 1973, told me about it in 1989. I don't think it should be a secret.

Shouldn't we ask ourselves why Berlet and King maintain that "No one knows where the money comes from"? I suggest that the reason for that piece of disinformation is because if the identity of the financial uncle of the LaRouchies was made known, it might give away the whole Game. People might begin wondering who owns Doubleday (the publisher of Dennis King's book), or why Dennis King, in the preface to his book on LaRouche, thanks a member of William F. Buckley's Conservative Party of New York for explaining to him the arcane and near incomprehensible mysteries of the LaRouchian Cosmology. William F. Buckley, veteran CIA operative, is, after all, a longtime comrade of David Rockefeller, as well as a member of the Bohemian Grove. None of which should really surprise anyone. It's all the same cocktail party at the top.

I suggest that LaRouche-phobia is actually something of a red herring. To cast Lyndon LaRouche in the part of Bete-noire and stalking-horse of Fascism, was to construct a straw man-a process in which LaRouche himself may have played a witting role. Berlet and King may perhaps be forgiven if their prescient sense of impending Fascism erred in prematurely identifying LaRouche as the agent of its re-emergence (LaRouche, the former Marxist professor in the loft in Greenwich Village, was too intellectual and too arcane to achieve mass-appeal). However, they were not completely wrong. Sixty years after the publication of Sinclair Lewis's novel It Can't Happen Here, the Bishop Prang and the Buzz Windrip of American Fascism have arrived in the persons of Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich, two people who truly appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Ironically, the LaRouchies have been warning about Gingrich-another Rockefeller man-for years.

RESPONSE TO Mark Evans on LaRouche


Mark Evans in his essay on LaRouche accuses me of covering up Rockefeller funding of LaRouche. Evans quotes a single hearsay source for the Rockefeller connection who in turn received it from a second hearsay source. I had never heard this story before; it I had, I would have checked it out. But I would not have printed it as fact the way Evans does without solid substantiation. I am dubious of the story because (among other things) of the date: Evans says the conversation took place in 1973, but the LaRouche organization never obtained large sums of money to launch an international intelligence operation until 1976 (their spending prior to 1976 can be explained in large part by the fact that wealthy members turned over their trust funds to the organization). Evans fails to note that I was the one who obtained a 1976 CIA document under FOIA in which a top aide to George Bush (then the director) speculated in a memo to Bush on the possibility of making use of the LaRouchians. I did not state this was the source of the sudden influx of money to the LaRouchians, because I could not obtain any proof (speculation in a letter about the possibility of something is not proof). I did however reveal that the LaRouchians were given an expensive Wang computer at the time by Wang Laboratories (an intelligence community contractor), that a computer software company secretly controlled by LaRouche raked in millions for the organization in the late 1970s, that the LaRouchians ran a successful shakedown operation against Resorts International, that they engaged in wire fraud and check kiting fraud in the 1970s, that they obtained money from the Loews Foundation (Tisch family) in 1981 when they were running electoral dirty tricks for NY mayor Ed Koch, that they obtained a large donation from a friend of Jesse Helms after running dirty tricks for Helm's 1984 reelection campaign, and that they raised tens of millions of dollars a year in the mid-1980s through credit card fraud and loan scams targeting senior citizens. The substantiated facts about LaRouche's sources of money are weird enough even without the ghost of Nelson Rockefeller.

--Dennis King

http://www.sonic.net/%7Edoretk/ArchiveA ... ouche.html


***
VM offers up these resources which include information on Lyndon LaRouche, John Trochmann of the Montana Militia, et al:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/199 ... s-clothing

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:tM ... ochmann%22

Is Carolyn trochmann, wife of john trochmann the same carolyn trochmann who is on the board of the larouche organization?
Wait till you see my next one

DE CAMP JOHN W
Spotlight Newspaper 1998-07-20 (12). HOWE CAROL ELIZABETH · Spotlight Newspaper 1997-06-16 (21) ... TROCHMANN JOHN E · Spotlight Newspaper 1995-09-18 (4-5 13) ... ZEPP-LAROUCHE HELGA · Executive Intelligence Review 1999-03-19 (68 ) ...
www.namebase.org/main2/John-W-De-camp.html


NORTHWEST UPDATE
LaRouche are holding regular meetings throughout the region. ... Carolyn Trochmann, Chelan county activist Ron Kurpuis and Attorney Bill Drexler. ...
www.newcomm.org/NWCHD/NorthwestUpdates/ ... e-1995/NU- 12-15-1995.pdf


Encyclopedia of Modern American Extremists and Extremist Groups
12. Together with his brother, David; his nephew, Randy; and his wife, Carolyn, John Trochmann founded the Militia of Montana on January 1, 1994. ...
www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&docId=102137210
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strange

Postby sw » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:30 pm

I found this strange link to Ted Gunderson in an obit from the Dallas Morning News. I found the link first and later the full obit posted somewhere else.

First deal I found:


A bit of obituary weirdness

7:00 AM Mon, Dec 29, 2008 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
Steve Blow E-mail News tips

One of the pleasures of reading paid obituaries is the unexpected things that families choose to include.

Margaret Elizabeth Commons had a nice, meandering obit in Sunday's paper. But this was an unusual addition to the list of survivors:

The family fears for the lives and well being of Marchenka M.L. McCall (Hockaday 1995) and her sons Samuel Rhys Cox and Cyrus I. McCall, of Charlottesville, VA; these are Margaret's granddaughter and great-grandsons. We fear they are being victimized in Albemarle and Buckingham Counties, VA, w/the assistance of Criminal Police; to understand, refer to Ted Gunderson's website.

Unfortunately, Ted Gunderson's website says it has been suspended and we should contact the "billing/support department."

Well, rest in peace, Margaret. And live in peace, Marchenka.


Then, I found the full obit here:

12/28/08 - Commons, Margaret Elizabeth Was born on July 15, 1919, at 2616 Hibernia, Dallas, Texas. She died on Dec. 24, 2008, her body not possessing the resources to recover from surgery in April.

She was born to William Jefferson Davis and Lula Lee (Clardy) Davis. Her mother died when she was three; her brother James Walter (Dudder) was one. Margaret, her brother and father were "adopted" by her namesake Margaret Lucinda Violet Acker Webb, Mr. Webb and three of their adult children, Charles Webb (Uncle Lolly), Pearl Webb Benedict (Aunt Pearl), and Dora Webb Sanders (Aunt Dodie). Margaret's parents boarded with the Webb family in two houses successively owned by Charles Webb. In 1920 the two families moved to 3107 Cole Ave. in Dallas. Margaret and James grew up in this house surrounded by adults who possessed extraordinary charity, wisdom, faith, consideration of others, etc.; these adults were living examples to Margaret and James.

Aunt Pearl earned a Bachelor Degree from S.M.U. and a Master Degree from U.T. Austin, before women earned College Diplomas. She became a beloved teacher. She taught American History at J.L. Long Middle School for 30 years.

Aunt Dodie owned and operated a "country" grocery store at 5527 Maple Ave. for decades. She "delivered" groceries to Highland Park and Greenway Park customers. Her neighbors held her in high esteem because of her charity; they knew it was her who secretly left sacks of groceries on the porches of needy depression era families. Margaret graduated from William B. Travis and from North Dallas High School in 1936, the year of The Centennial of the State Fair of Texas, which ran all year. Her father had died when she was 16. A highlight of her young life was when President Franklin D. Roosevelt waved directly to her from an open car when Margaret attended the Dedication of the Statue in Lee Park near her home. Decades later she would see President and Mrs. Kennedy in route through downtown Dallas.

She was a member of the McKinney Ave. Baptist Church at Routh Street. The church bldg. eventually became The Hard Rock Cafe until it was torn down. The church congregation erected the bldg. on Oak Lawn Ave. at Wycliff and became Highland Baptist Church, for decades at that site. At age 17, Margaret met Nina (now Dumond) at Sunday School; they remained life long friends. From 1936 until 1943, Margaret worked for the Dallas Public Schools where she met Ann Wiesenfeld and Helen E. Carter; they remained life long friends.

Margaret married John W. Commons of McKinney, Texas, in 1943. They lived in S. California for 10 years where their three children were born. They divorced in 1956. Margaret had returned to Dallas in 1954. The Southern Baptist Annuity Board gave a woman alone, with 3 children, a job; unheard of in 1954. Margaret retired from that job 30 years later at age 65. She continued to enjoy several friendships with retired co-workers. She appreciated new friends made during her re-tirement and her good neighbors on Woodcrest Lane.

Margaret is survived by her children Bruce J. Commons, George G. Commons, and Doralyn with husband Barry B. White, all of Dallas; and her grandson Anton A. L. White of Hot Springs, AR. The family fears for the lives and well being of Marchenka M.L. McCall (Hockaday 1995) and her sons Samuel Rhys Cox and Cyrus I. McCall, of Charlottesville, VA; these are Margaret's granddaughter and great-grandsons. We fear they are being victimized in Albemarle and Buckingham Counties, VA, w/the assistance of Criminal Police; to understand, refer to Ted Gunderson's website. Margaret's brother James W. Davis and niece Anastacia Davis of Tijuana, Mexico, predeceased her; Anastacia by one day. Margaret's beloved sister-in-law, Josephina Davis, of Tijuana; her niece Rosalinda with husband Martin Hernandez and their son James Hernandez, of San Diego, CA; and her nephew Rodolfo Iribe, of San Ysidro; survive her. The family wishes to express their heartfelt Thank You to all of the doctors and nurses who assisted Margaret, to everyone at Baylor U.M.C. downtown, and the Skilled Nursing Staffs of C.C. Young, in May, and Presbyterian Village North, in Nov; it meant so much to us to be given added time with her because of your dedication to helping your fellow man. God Bless each one of you for it. Visitation will be from 6 to 8:30PM Monday December 29, 2008 at Restland Funeral Home. Service will be at 12:30PM Tuesday December 30, 2008 at Restland Wildwood Chapel. Interment will be at Grove Hill Cemetery, Dallas, Texas.

God gave us The Best. Thank you Grandma, Mother, Margaret for being exactly who you were in your sojourn here.
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:27 pm

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/conspirac ... onference/

.......Racist Conspiracy Theories and the Militias

Doc Marqui, a self-described former “school teacher and witch,” lectured about the satanic “Illuminati” conspiracy, which he alleged President Bill Clinton was part of, serving as the “anti-Christ.” Marqui assured the audience that this theory is not racist; but the fact is the Illuminati theory is the same one advocated by most members of the American militia movement, and it was utilized by the Nazis in their effort to justify their campaign of genocide against the Jews of Europe (Cohn 1966). The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an anti-Semitic document (based on the Illuminati conspiracy theory) that purports to document plans for Jewish world domination and which first appeared in Russia in 1903 in a newspaper edited by a “noted and militant anti-Semite” (Cohn 1966, p. 65). The book was instituted as mandatory reading in German schools by the Nazis in 1933 (Cohn 1966). Marqui touted the overall validity of the Protocols while replacing the word Jews with the word satanists. The Illuminati conspiracy holds, in part, that large Jewish banking families have been orchestrating various political revolutions and machinations throughout Europe and America since the late eighteenth century, with the ultimate aim of bringing about a satanic New World Order. Members of the militia movement have said they believe that the United Nations has been infiltrated by these “demonic forces” and is poised for a violent overthrow of the American government, after which American rights to own firearms will be removed and American citizens will be enslaved by the introduction of a cashless society, as foretold in the Bible’s book of Revelation (see, e.g., Constantine 1995; Kelly 1995; Springmeier 1995; Stern 1996). Marqui stated that the Illuminati is essentially a shadow government that has controlled the United States since its inception, controls the Masonic order, and commits all manner of occult crime culminating in human sacrifices on eight days of each year. Much of this paranoia was chronicled more than 30 years ago by Richard Hofstadter (1965).

While the Illuminati conspiracy theory is widely endorsed by militia members, it is also embraced by reactionary groups such as: the Lyndon LaRouche organization (political analyst Chip Berlet [1994] stated that in the early 1970s, Lyndon LaRouche “took his followers . . . and guided them into fascist politics”); the John Birch Society (which Berlet [1994] said believes “Insiders” have for years controlled the U.S. and former Soviet Union governments); and the Liberty Lobby. The Liberty Lobby, with its newspaper Spotlight, was created by Willis Carto, who also founded the Institute for Historical Review, which asserts that the Holocaust was a hoax (Berlet 1994).

Author Linda Blood, who spoke later in the day, protested that she was "unhappy to be following someone [Marqui] who is pushing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” which she said was anti-Semitic trash. Blood’s protest deeply angered some and bewildered others, while about four of Blood’s friends clapped in support. Perskin, who moderated the session, announced that although she is Jewish she found nothing offensive in Marqui’s lecture. Marqui appeared to me to be connecting existing racist conspiracy theories with the therapists’ theories about satanic cults.

Marqui was followed by former Federal Bureau of Investigation agent Ted Gunderson, who highly praised Marqui’s lecture. Gunderson is well known for his claims that an archaeological dig under the McMartin preschool showed evidence of tunnels, through which the children were allegedly spirited to other buildings to be prostituted in the community (Summit 1994). The results of this dig have for years gone unpublished while calls for funds to self-publish the results have been issued in newsletters such as the Survivor Activist (1994). Meanwhile, the integrity of the dig has been strongly disputed (Earl 1995). Gunderson presented what he called “new evidence” in the 1984 McMartin preschool sex-abuse case in Manhattan Beach, California. He produced a number of photographs of the foundation of a house in the hills above San Bernadino, California, that had burned down, he claimed, the night the charges were filed in the McMartin case. He alleged that the McMartin children were flown to this house and ritually abused, and that the house was torched to destroy evidence. The sum total of the evidence he presented to support this allegation was the existence of spray-painted satanic graffiti on the foundation stones and on boulders on the property. Apparently, several years had gone by between the time of the alleged fire and the time Gunderson snapped the photos. Yet Gunderson was dismissive of the idea that the house foundation on the lot, with its hillside vista of San Bernadino, had been used by teenagers who might have painted the graffiti after the fire. The therapists were enraptured and later asked if Gunderson was planning to publish his photos or if there was any chance of using this evidence in a new trial. The McMartin preschool case resulted in the longest criminal proceeding in American history and failed to produce any convictions (see e.g., Nathan and Snedecker 1995).

Gunderson then described a conversation he had with a witness, Paul Bonacci, from an alleged satanic-ritual abuse case in Nebraska that was detailed by former Nebraska state Sen. John DeCamp (1992), who was also a speaker at this conference. The grand jury of Lincoln described this case as an attack by DeCamp “for personal political gain and possible revenge” (Dorr 1991, p. 1), a “smear campaign,” and a "carefully crafted hoax” (United Press International, September 18, 1990). The grand jury jailed one and indicted two others (including Bonacci) for perjury, and was so critical of DeCamp that he sued the grand jury for ridicule, though he quickly lost (Dorr 1991). A church in the area, the Nebraska Leadership Conference, responded by publishing a tract (no date) named The Mystery of the Carefully Crafted Hoax, with a foreword by Gunderson, in which he continued the allegations of satanic-ritual crime. At the conference Gunderson related Bonacci’s description of a slave auction in Las Vegas in which 25 to 30 vans pulled up, airplanes landed, and foreign men with turbans bought children and took them away. According to Gunderson: "Nobody knows what happened to those kids. They use them for several things: body parts, they use them for sacrificing, for sex slaves. But this is a big market. Does anybody have any idea what a blue-eyed, blond-haired eleven- or twelve-year girl would sell for? Fifty thousand dollars.”

Gunderson claimed that there are currently 500 satanic cults in New York City alone, each averaging eight sacrificial murders a year, for a total of 4,000 human sacrifices every year. Gunderson did not explain how the cults remove bodies in the asphalt jungle of New York.

Gunderson believes in the threat posed by the New World Order, as do Marqui and militia members. Gunderson has appeared on Dateline NBC, at militia conferences (Witt 1995), on Michigan Militia member Mark Koernke’s shortwave radio program, and on the cover of Spotlight (May 13, 1995), stating that the U.S. government intentionally bombed the Oklahoma City federal building in April 1995, in order to remove our rights through anti-terrorism bills. Gunderson informed the audience that Spotlight “tells it like it is,” and urged audience members to call the subscription number, which he read aloud. On top of this, Gunderson gave an interview to Lyndon LaRouche’s Executive Intelligence Review (May 25, 1990), in which he described FBI special agent Ken Lanning as “probably the most effective and foremost speaker for the satanic movement in this country, today or at any time in the past.” Gunderson and Marqui seem to me to be attempting to introduce therapists to racist conspiracy theories and reactionary propaganda, while at the same time groups such as the LaRouche organization endorse satanic conspiracy theories to draw in new members......
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Postby Percival » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:05 pm

Good work all of you, when I have some time I have a lot of data to dump here also, should have time later tonight or tomorrow I hope, to go through it and organize it, lots of good info like you all have so far.

Keep it comin!
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:53 pm

Well, actually, Percy, that last link I gave was your link.
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Postby lightningBugout » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:59 pm

Worth noting that the paper Chig cited is titled "Conspiracy Theories and Paranoia: Notes from a Mind-Control Conference" and is hosted on the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry website.

No problem seeing Gunderson go down but then in the rest of that paper, many aspects of what RI touches on are also mocked.

Consider this from the paper's conclusion.

Evan Harrington wrote:Conspiracy theories have operated in many societies at many times and may be seen from a social-psychological perspective as serving certain functions within society. Conspiracy theories may of course represent real conspiracies, but they may also act in a manner similar to racist stereotyping in which the targeted group is seen as deviant and deeply immoral (Moscovici 1987). Conspiracy scholarship is on the one hand irrational, while on the other “far more coherent than the real world, since it leaves no room for mistakes, failures, or ambiguities. It is, if not wholly rational, at least intensely rationalistic” (Hofstadter 1965, p. 36). Conspiracy theories offer individuals well-organized enemies against whom the self is defined; this offers them a guiding structure and purpose (Farr 1987).
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
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Postby Percival » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:22 am

chiggerbit wrote:Well, actually, Percy, that last link I gave was your link.


Yea I saw that, it was just one I pulled up quickly from my links list. I have a bunch of files on Larouche and Gunderson on my other computer at home I am still at the office, I will dump some of that stuff in here when I get home.

You got some good stuff so far as well as others, this thread is much needed for those who do not know much about Mr TG.
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Postby Percival » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:24 am

lightningBugout wrote:Worth noting that the paper Chig cited is titled "Conspiracy Theories and Paranoia: Notes from a Mind-Control Conference" and is hosted on the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry website.

No problem seeing Gunderson go down but then in the rest of that paper, many aspects of what RI touches on are also mocked.

Consider this from the paper's conclusion.

Evan Harrington wrote:Conspiracy theories have operated in many societies at many times and may be seen from a social-psychological perspective as serving certain functions within society. Conspiracy theories may of course represent real conspiracies, but they may also act in a manner similar to racist stereotyping in which the targeted group is seen as deviant and deeply immoral (Moscovici 1987). Conspiracy scholarship is on the one hand irrational, while on the other “far more coherent than the real world, since it leaves no room for mistakes, failures, or ambiguities. It is, if not wholly rational, at least intensely rationalistic” (Hofstadter 1965, p. 36). Conspiracy theories offer individuals well-organized enemies against whom the self is defined; this offers them a guiding structure and purpose (Farr 1987).


Yes some stuff on there I dont agree with I only posted it because it did show that TG has worked with Larouche before and that is sort of the connection we are looking for at present.
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