Ted Gunderson

Moderators: DrVolin, Elvis, Jeff

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:23 pm

Maybe we can get her on here to comment?


Beg, if you have to.
chiggerbit
 
Posts: 8594
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 12:23 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:41 pm

JM wrote:he is selling his own copy of the report, illegally I bet his name is all over it. He had taken a rough draft copy from Dr Stickel but never had the finished report.


The last copy I read was posted here, but it has been quite recently deleted. It was a scan of a xerox, and Gunderson's resume took up the entirety of the second page after the cover.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12887
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JM » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:44 pm

Jackie, I really appreciate this response, I wasnt intending to be disrepectful or disbelieving about what happened to your child, it is just very hard these days to believe everything you read on the internet since there are so many people out there muddying the waters for reasons only known to themselves.

Thanks again for an excellent response this goes a long to way to clear some questions that I have had all along.


I would also like to ask if you have read this most recent report that the tunnels may have been remnants of a garbage dump, that was dug by previous owners of the property during a time when there was no city trash pickup, and that the school was built over it?

It is an interesting read and please understand that I am not trying to question your version of the events or put you on the defensive, I am just trying to look at all the angles of this before coming to any certain conclusions. Is there is ANY DOUBT in your mind at all that someone associated with Mcmartian dug those tunnels on purpose and with the sole purpose in mind of using them to abuse children. Are you 100% sold on that story?


Read this and perhaps you can comment for us further, I would love to hear what you havve to say about what this fellow thinks.



What was under the McMartin preschool? A review and behavioral analysis of the "tunnels" find

Behavior and Social Issues , Fall 2002 by Wyatt, W Joseph

ABSTRACT: The McMartin Preschool child abuse case began in 1983 in Manhattan Beach, California, and was one of the most visible cases in history. Although two trials were conducted and no convictions were obtained, some individuals continue to believe that dozens of children were sexually abused at the preschool. In 1990 an archeologist was hired to determine whether tunnels had existed under the school because some of the children had alleged that some of their abuse took place in tunnels under the building. The archeologist's report was issued in 1993. It concluded that evidence of back-filled tunnels had been found. This critical analysis of the archeologist's report concludes otherwise, that what the archeologist found was actually the filled-in remains of a rural family's trash pit that pre-dated construction of the school. Regarding artifacts discovered in soil under the preschool, alternative interpretations to those of the archeologist are given. A theoretical functional analysis of the variables that may have accounted for the archeologist's evident misinterpretation is presented.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... ntent;col1[/quote]



I don't mind at all. I would be skeptical too if I hadn't been in the middle of it. I am a skeptic by nature.

This guy Wyatt was given a copy of my report by the Miner I hired, Jerry Hobbs, a great and very experienced guy. Stickel and I wrote to his University and tried to stop him from delivering his incorrect interpretation of the report. They ignored us and Stickel told me he did not want to fight everyone.
The Buckeys tried to have us thrown off the preschool property while we were searching. The property had been given to their attorney, Danny Davis for payment. A real estate mogul in town owned the lot on the N/W corner that the McMartins leased for their play yard. He had always been very cooperative. He let us have a backhoe there in 1985-where we found a turtle shell, which led to the District Attorney taking over to do their own investigation. They found a bunch of bones. They only dug about 6". They never had access to the lot that the preschool building was on. So the real estate guy bought the preschool property from Davis in 1990 and gave us permission to do what we wanted. He said we should have the opportunity to look if we wanted to. Poor guy was subpoenaed several times by the defense to try to make us leave. He stood his ground and let us stay. The Judge, William Pounder, was curious why they wanted us off so bad.
AS for the defense saying they were trash dumps, Stickel points out that there was an overburdon-archaeological for natural roof. A pit is open. There were artifacts stuffed into the fill dirt (loosly packed while the natural surroundings were hard dirt) part of the way back into the tunnel but "petered out" as the tunnel went further back into the far corner of the building. The artifacts we found were cataloged and stored at a neighbor/friend/supporter's house. ted, with MY van went to their place and took everything with no one's knowledage. ted told me they would not let us have the stuff back so I didn't talk to them for several years.

Anyway, Wyatt and Abby Mann and others who for some reason are very interested in convincing the public that children lie about sexual abuse are repeating the defense argument and the theories invented by the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF).
JM
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JM » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:57 pm

barracuda wrote:
JM wrote:he is selling his own copy of the report, illegally I bet his name is all over it. He had taken a rough draft copy from Dr Stickel but never had the finished report.


The last copy I read was posted here, but it has been quite recently deleted. It was a scan of a xerox, and Gunderson's resume took up the entirety of the second page after the cover.


The report, as I said is not finished.
What Wyatt did bothered me and I wanted to make sure all the Ts are crossed and the Is are dotted.
An activist who has numerous sites about ritual abuse got a copy and asked Stickel if he could post it. I own the report and this is NOT about satanism or mind control so I said no-he had to delete it. it is about young children being sexually abused and hopefully answers some questions about how they got away with it in this case.


Looks like he must have gotten hold of the copy gunderson is selling (I should sue him) hmmm and Wyatt, toto.

I do want it out there. I could use some technical help. I am not allowed by contract (and I wholly agree) to add anything. Others in the past who have offered to help have wanted to do that.


One wanted to put an X FILES type logo---YIKES
JM
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:26 pm

barracuda wrote:
JM wrote:he is selling his own copy of the report, illegally I bet his name is all over it. He had taken a rough draft copy from Dr Stickel but never had the finished report.


The last copy I read was posted here, but it has been quite recently deleted. It was a scan of a xerox, and Gunderson's resume took up the entirety of the second page after the cover.


LOL now that figures doesnt it?
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:28 pm

JM wrote:Jackie, I really appreciate this response, I wasnt intending to be disrepectful or disbelieving about what happened to your child, it is just very hard these days to believe everything you read on the internet since there are so many people out there muddying the waters for reasons only known to themselves.

Thanks again for an excellent response this goes a long to way to clear some questions that I have had all along.


I would also like to ask if you have read this most recent report that the tunnels may have been remnants of a garbage dump, that was dug by previous owners of the property during a time when there was no city trash pickup, and that the school was built over it?

It is an interesting read and please understand that I am not trying to question your version of the events or put you on the defensive, I am just trying to look at all the angles of this before coming to any certain conclusions. Is there is ANY DOUBT in your mind at all that someone associated with Mcmartian dug those tunnels on purpose and with the sole purpose in mind of using them to abuse children. Are you 100% sold on that story?


Read this and perhaps you can comment for us further, I would love to hear what you havve to say about what this fellow thinks.



What was under the McMartin preschool? A review and behavioral analysis of the "tunnels" find

Behavior and Social Issues , Fall 2002 by Wyatt, W Joseph

ABSTRACT: The McMartin Preschool child abuse case began in 1983 in Manhattan Beach, California, and was one of the most visible cases in history. Although two trials were conducted and no convictions were obtained, some individuals continue to believe that dozens of children were sexually abused at the preschool. In 1990 an archeologist was hired to determine whether tunnels had existed under the school because some of the children had alleged that some of their abuse took place in tunnels under the building. The archeologist's report was issued in 1993. It concluded that evidence of back-filled tunnels had been found. This critical analysis of the archeologist's report concludes otherwise, that what the archeologist found was actually the filled-in remains of a rural family's trash pit that pre-dated construction of the school. Regarding artifacts discovered in soil under the preschool, alternative interpretations to those of the archeologist are given. A theoretical functional analysis of the variables that may have accounted for the archeologist's evident misinterpretation is presented.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... ntent;col1




I don't mind at all. I would be skeptical too if I hadn't been in the middle of it. I am a skeptic by nature.

This guy Wyatt was given a copy of my report by the Miner I hired, Jerry Hobbs, a great and very experienced guy. Stickel and I wrote to his University and tried to stop him from delivering his incorrect interpretation of the report. They ignored us and Stickel told me he did not want to fight everyone.
The Buckeys tried to have us thrown off the preschool property while we were searching. The property had been given to their attorney, Danny Davis for payment. A real estate mogul in town owned the lot on the N/W corner that the McMartins leased for their play yard. He had always been very cooperative. He let us have a backhoe there in 1985-where we found a turtle shell, which led to the District Attorney taking over to do their own investigation. They found a bunch of bones. They only dug about 6". They never had access to the lot that the preschool building was on. So the real estate guy bought the preschool property from Davis in 1990 and gave us permission to do what we wanted. He said we should have the opportunity to look if we wanted to. Poor guy was subpoenaed several times by the defense to try to make us leave. He stood his ground and let us stay. The Judge, William Pounder, was curious why they wanted us off so bad.
AS for the defense saying they were trash dumps, Stickel points out that there was an overburdon-archaeological for natural roof. A pit is open. There were artifacts stuffed into the fill dirt (loosly packed while the natural surroundings were hard dirt) part of the way back into the tunnel but "petered out" as the tunnel went further back into the far corner of the building. The artifacts we found were cataloged and stored at a neighbor/friend/supporter's house. ted, with MY van went to their place and took everything with no one's knowledage. ted told me they would not let us have the stuff back so I didn't talk to them for several years.

Anyway, Wyatt and Abby Mann and others who for some reason are very interested in convincing the public that children lie about sexual abuse are repeating the defense argument and the theories invented by the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF).

Good stuff I am glad you addressed this, it is good to hear that you are aware of the article and have read it.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:32 pm

See this is what I mean, why is TG going around taking all the evidence and saying he wont let anyone see/have it. That seems more like the behavior of someone trying to COVER SOMETHING UP rather than EXPOSE THINGS.

This man has no right to do what he did to you and take all the credit for the work and sacrifice that you put in to this trying to find out what happened to your child and prevent other children from suffering the same.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:36 pm

JM wrote:
barracuda wrote:
JM wrote:he is selling his own copy of the report, illegally I bet his name is all over it. He had taken a rough draft copy from Dr Stickel but never had the finished report.


The last copy I read was posted here, but it has been quite recently deleted. It was a scan of a xerox, and Gunderson's resume took up the entirety of the second page after the cover.


The report, as I said is not finished.
What Wyatt did bothered me and I wanted to make sure all the Ts are crossed and the Is are dotted.
An activist who has numerous sites about ritual abuse got a copy and asked Stickel if he could post it. I own the report and this is NOT about satanism or mind control so I said no-he had to delete it. it is about young children being sexually abused and hopefully answers some questions about how they got away with it in this case.


Looks like he must have gotten hold of the copy gunderson is selling (I should sue him) hmmm and Wyatt, toto.

I do want it out there. I could use some technical help. I am not allowed by contract (and I wholly agree) to add anything. Others in the past who have offered to help have wanted to do that.


One wanted to put an X FILES type logo---YIKES


I am actually surprised you havent sued them yet, you come across to me as a very credible person who IS NOT looking for money, fame or attention but just wants the TRUTH, unlike the rest of these clowns who seemingly took advantage of you and turned a child abuse case in to a mind control and satanic panic circus act.

Pathetic. How do these people sleep at night?
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby lightningBugout » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:40 pm

Percival wrote:...unlike the rest of these clowns who seemingly took advantage of you and turned a child abuse case in to a mind control and satanic panic circus act.


Who exactly and specifically are you referring to?
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
User avatar
lightningBugout
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:34 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Percival » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:50 pm

lightningBugout wrote:
Percival wrote:...unlike the rest of these clowns who seemingly took advantage of you and turned a child abuse case in to a mind control and satanic panic circus act.


Who exactly and specifically are you referring to?


The topic of the thread and his cohorts/minions. Everything TG touches turns in to a satanic ritual/cult case and the attention is taken away from the real issue, in the case of Mcmartian, child abuse, and focused on the satanic panic aspect of it. Its a side show and he does it on purpose IMO. And I think thats what JM is confirming here.

I have never had any problem believing the children were abused but when they started talking about using Tunnels to take kids off the property to Churches where they were used in satanic black masses and such, thats a little over the top IMO and that is exactly what happens to a case when TG becomes involved. Its smoke and mirrors.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Project Willow » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:00 pm

I would like to put forth a supposition here and then I have a question for Jackie.

If someone were employing Ted to disrupt cases, they aren't paying or managing him well, at least according to these accounts that have him periodically destitute. I would surmise from this that he is rather a kind of freelancer, trying to play both sides to his own personal advantage, or became one over time.

Jackie, I see you've written a few times now that McMartin was about molestation and not ritual abuse or mind control. I understand that when one's experience has been subjected to a rather successful denialist campaign, one would want to distance oneself from any labeling that assisted the campaign. Is that why you have taken your position wrt to ra/mc, or is it that you don't find credible any of the more ritualistic aspects that came out of the children's testimony? Do you see the ra aspects as defense invention or defense hype? More generally, and putting your case aside, do you believe that ra/mc exist?
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4773
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Postby Percival » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:19 pm

Let me clarify what I am saying. An abducted child or a group of children molested at a preschool, as bad as these things are, and they are BAD make no mistake, those involved in it should rot in hell if there is such a place, but these things are so commonplace in our society that they just dont generate the shock and awe needed to open people's eyes and make them pay close attention.

There is a whole group of people out there that have made a COTTAGE INDUSTRY out of these cases by throwing themselves in to the middle of it and claiming that these events are part of a larger well organized conspiracy involving satanism, mind control etc, they write books about it and make a lot of money lecturing and selling their wares and bring a lot of attention to themselves by suggesting these cases involve using children for satanic black mass rituals, mind control etc.

Now I am not saying these things dont happen but I am saying there are a lot of people out there including therapists, drs, people like TG etc, who are in the business of making money off this crap and the more they can sensationalize it the more money and attention for them. Some of them are doing it strictly for the money and others are doing it because it takes away the attention from the real issue, IE molested children, and diverts it to something much more hyperbolic like satanic ritual abuse, these people may or may not be doing this for money or to actually help cover up the case and protect the perps.

Suffice to say I have met and spent enough time with most of the heavy hitters in the conspiracy community, those who make a living selling books, DVDs and being paid to lecture etc, to know that they are not people that I would trust or do business with and that they do NOT CARE ABOUT THE CHILDREN and are in it mostly for THEMSELVES or to help protect, coverup and divert attention away from PERPS.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JM » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:29 pm

Project Willow wrote:I would like to put forth a supposition here and then I have a question for Jackie.

If someone were employing Ted to disrupt cases, they aren't paying or managing him well, at least according to these accounts that have him periodically destitute. I would surmise from this that he is rather a kind of freelancer, trying to play both sides to his own personal advantage, or became one over time.

Jackie, I see you've written a few times now that McMartin was about molestation and not ritual abuse or mind control. I understand that when one's experience has been subjected to a rather successful denialist campaign, one would want to distance oneself from any labeling that assisted the campaign. Is that why you have taken your position wrt to ra/mc, or is it that you don't find credible any of the more ritualistic aspects that came out of the children's testimony? Do you see the ra aspects as defense invention or defense hype? More generally, and putting your case aside, do you believe that ra/mc exist?



First I want to thank you all for letting me tell my side on this board without becoming, as my mother would say, obstreperous.

My take on the case is that they were using the kids and churches and mortuary for filming what was called back then "prescription child porn" I read that more money could be made in kiddie porn than in selling drugs.
The teachers were not rich from what I could see and there had to be others in town (or further) that were involved to pull it off. Something like 10 other preschools were closed by the Department of Public Social Services in the 80s, but only one other arrest was made. The Sheriff had a field office down on the beach here and they were investigating the "uncharged suspects" around 100 of them.
My own child, when I asked how they took her out of the school said "through the tunnels, Mom" as if I was dumb to even ask. She was told that I knew what they were doing and I was part of it. She was 2 1/2. She was only there 4 months, a long time in a 3 year old's life span.
I have to agree that Ritual Abuse exists, and it may have been what McMartin was about. You are correct when you say I would like to avoid hysterical sounding labels and I can not endorse that from personal experience, but I have met a lot of people who's claims are believable.
JM
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JM » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:41 pm

Percival wrote:Let me clarify what I am saying. An abducted child or a group of children molested at a preschool, as bad as these things are, and they are BAD make no mistake, those involved in it should rot in hell if there is such a place, but these things are so commonplace in our society that they just dont generate the shock and awe needed to open people's eyes and make them pay close attention.

There is a whole group of people out there that have made a COTTAGE INDUSTRY out of these cases by throwing themselves in to the middle of it and claiming that these events are part of a larger well organized conspiracy involving satanism, mind control etc, they write books about it and make a lot of money lecturing and selling their wares and bring a lot of attention to themselves by suggesting these cases involve using children for satanic black mass rituals, mind control etc.

Now I am not saying these things dont happen but I am saying there are a lot of people out there including therapists, drs, people like TG etc, who are in the business of making money off this crap and the more they can sensationalize it the more money and attention for them. Some of them are doing it strictly for the money and others are doing it because it takes away the attention from the real issue, IE molested children, and diverts it to something much more hyperbolic like satanic ritual abuse, these people may or may not be doing this for money or to actually help cover up the case and protect the perps.

Suffice to say I have met and spent enough time with most of the heavy hitters in the conspiracy community, those who make a living selling books, DVDs and being paid to lecture etc, to know that they are not people that I would trust or do business with and that they do NOT CARE ABOUT THE CHILDREN and are in it mostly for THEMSELVES or to help protect, coverup and divert attention away from PERPS.






Right! I agree about htose "professionals" who go public. They distort the truth, yes. Most of them contacted me but I have the same opinion of them that you do.
Those who were victimized by this are staying quiet, trying to cope. Look at the flack MacKenzie Phillips took.
I want to protect the identity of my children but my name got out early and often by the media. I tried to work witht hem but they were more interested in sensationalizing this to make $$.
I don't think any of these conspiracy theorists make a lot of money.
Unspeakable Acts was a best seller and a movie was made starring Jill Clayburgh. She didn't make enough money to buy a new pair of tennis shoes. But she was passionate about the case in Florida where the defendant is still incarcerated.
JM
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JM » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:45 pm

Chris Jones of Bellflower where several of ted's "associates" live, was the web master for tedlgunderson.com

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 553465/pg1

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=41307.40

then I found this:

Chris Jones was arrested for diddling little boys in his neighborhood. He is in PRISON.

Ton Rackauckas, disrict attorney
County of Orange, State of California
P.O. Box 808 Santa Ana, CA
tel, 714834-3600

filed this 19th day 2007

superior court of california, county of orange
No. 07HF1762
consolidated from 05HF1675

the people of the state of california plaintiff
vs
christopher link jones 12/21/67 defendant
c6972092

count 1 section 288a of penal code......John Doe #1...pulling down pants in limousine...christopher link jones did willfully, lewdly and lascivious act upon and with the body of xxx a child under the age of 14...
JM
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to The Franklin Scandal

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest