John deCamp

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Re: copies

Postby Searcher08 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:40 pm

Paloma wrote:
lightningBugout wrote:It would be great to get that converted to a sound file and distribute copies to multiple people for safe-keeping. PM if you are interested in doing so and I can offer some tips on how to get it digitized, if you like.


Thanks, Lightningbug. Copies have been made, and there might be a few transcripts as well. I only had one microcassette with me and that was only out of habit. I didn't expect to record DeCamp or anyone else for that matter. When the tape ran out and I was observing Tyrell I called a friend and let my cell phone run so she could listen in. Jim Rothstein knows DeCamp and so I made contact with him during all of this so I could tell him what I was observing.

I have formed my opinion about the character or John DeCamp & Associates based on their behavior, their conversations in my presence and observations of the physical environment, which do not jive with the image John DeCamp portrays in his book.


Thank you for that Paloma, and for the book you recommended.

I think this is important information, because it is behavioural - what someone saw and heard and recorded.

deCamp sounds like someone who appears to have very different sides - he appeared quite congruent in his videos (although extremely cautious round a couple of subjects). I can imagine a certain amount of 'ambulance humour' to stay sane around the subject, however your description of his behaviour certianly sounded very inappropriate.

Regarding Jim Rothstein, is it true that he and Ted Gunderson were very close friends? I seemed to remember deCamp saying the three of them were good friends.
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Postby Free » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:25 pm

Paloma wrote:
When I met with John DeCamp and he said, in farsi, "Women are for childbirth; boys are for fun," and laughed raucously with his Paralegal before translating for me, he repeatedly solicited sex from me and even suggested that if we close his office door, "No one would ever know." He persisted despite me saying things like, "Perhaps you've spent too much time around this stuff John, and you have become what you hate." And, "Now you're just making an ass out of yourself, can I see the Mahoney files or not?" When shown a picture of a young woman who bears STRIKING resemblance to Jill Cutshall (9 year old abducted, scars in same place, deep cheek creases....) DeCamp had a rare and possibly lucid moment and said, "You'll be lucky if this doesn't get you killed," but he had no interest in the child/woman and did not want to see information about her. (She is schizophrenic with a severe attachment disorder, documented in court files.) I had a recorder in my purse, which captured much of what he had to say, and captured some of the bizarre little ditty's coming out of the mouth of his assistant. Things in the DeCamp "camp" are not what they seem. SW's gut instinct's are good, very good - in my opinion.



Wow. Great Paloma, that you recorded this....and welcome to this forum. I for one am really appreciating your contributions.

Just thinking about tape recorders for a moment, I hope I'm not veering off topic. We women (and men) need to be organized and meticulous about the recording devices we carry (and be sure that they are capable of making good quality recordings).

Patrizia D'Addario had a good recorder with her when she was hired to have sex with Prime Minister Berlusconi and now a judicial investigation is in course and his government is crumbling.

That's effective recording for you!
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Jim Rothstein, DeCamp and Gunderson

Postby Paloma » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:01 pm

Jim Rothstein, according to himself, worked with Ted Gunderson for a number of years. Jim was an organized crime task force detective operating at a very high level, and Gunderson was on the east coast, I believe Philadelphia, for a while.

Jim was another person who received files and information from Jeffrey Steinberg of EIR and was aiding Cheri Seymour before Ted Gunderson showed up, after which point Jim was boxed out of the investigation and things took a turn toward prison for MJR. (Does Steinberg get around or what?) Jim has said that he reviewed the files on the Franklin pedo ring prior to those files being passed on to DeCamp. He didn't come out and say it, but the reason he was asked to look was because he knew who the players were and how Operation Brownstone was run and there was overlap. Jim was asked to fact check and make sure that no innocent parties were accused.

Jim doesn't speak to Gunderson or DeCamp and has no interest in speaking to them. He does not express contempt for them but it is clear that he does not respect them. When I called him from Lincoln to relate what I was witnessing from Tyrell and DeCamp he was not surprised.

Apparently there was a joint radio interview with Gunderson and Rothstein and I don't know what Ted said/did, but Jim severed any ties or communication with him after that.
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Re: copies

Postby Paloma » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:05 pm

Regarding Jim Rothstein, is it true that he and Ted Gunderson were very close friends? I seemed to remember deCamp saying the three of them were good friends.[/quote]


Not what Jim Rothstein says. Kinda makes you wonder about Colby being his bff, Godfather, mentor, sometimes partner and all around supporter of John DeCamp. Sounds like Colby was butt-cover.
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Postby Free » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Project Willow wrote:
I had a thought actually after the questioning about Colby and his personality tests, or rather, his finding DeCamp through a review of soldiers' files of a slightly different angle. DeCamp is roughly my dad's age. For mc subjects of my dad's generation, they didn't get them as kids so much, but as young adults, pulling mostly out of military institutions. Phoenix project involved personnel with overlap in the mc programs. So, many possibilities for DeCamp being a tool, with different handles and his own desires and interests playing into the mix.



Is there any way to find out more about DeCamps' early life- like how he ended up in Totem Town, under what circumstances and how old he was when he went to Iran...etc?

Brainstorming here...just thoughts...

DeCamp was born July 6, 1941, making him 68.

I've met MK type survivors who are now in their early sixties who had very sophisticated programming that began in early childhood. They weren't just being experimented on, the programming resulted in their being used operationally. So in the mid-1940's the technology was already being used to create operatives. Do we really know when our military/gov began grooming and programming abused children that fit a certain profile?

Re: Farsi and foreign languages- Everyone, including spooks, knows that the younger a person is, the easier it is for them to absorb (that's how kids do it) a language.

In MK Ultra, when a child is determined to have a high aptitude for language, there's a good chance that they will be put on an "international spy" track and be sent to study a foreign language and sent as early as possible to live in another country or countries...
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Re: Jim Rothstein, DeCamp and Gunderson

Postby JM » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:31 pm

Paloma wrote:

Apparently there was a joint radio interview with Gunderson and Rothstein and I don't know what Ted said/did, but Jim severed any ties or communication with him after that.


Hahaha tlg's interviews ted to do that to people. he even alienated Geraldo that way. he said there were killing fields (Matamoros, Mexico style) in Washing State. There was a search, but nothing was ever found.

Glad you are here, Paloma. javascript:emoticon(':cheerleader:')

Do you know the dates that LaRouche was working with Cheri and John?
tlg was working with them in 1990-but how much before that?
So it seems tlg knew all about Franklin when he was at my place. He never mentioned it.
And did you ever figure out when tlg met John?
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Postby Paloma » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:23 pm

Is there any way to find out more about DeCamps' early life- like how he ended up in Totem Town, under what circumstances and how old he was when he went to Iran...etc?

Brainstorming here...just thoughts...

DeCamp was born July 6, 1941, making him 68.

I've met MK type survivors who are now in their early sixties who had very sophisticated programming that began in early childhood. They weren't just being experimented on, the programming resulted in their being used operationally. So in the mid-1940's the technology was already being used to create operatives. Do we really know when our military/gov began grooming and programming abused children that fit a certain profile?

Re: Farsi and foreign languages- Everyone, including spooks, knows that the younger a person is, the easier it is for them to absorb (that's how kids do it) a language.

In MK Ultra, when a child is determined to have a high aptitude for language, there's a good chance that they will be put on an "international spy" track and be sent to study a foreign language and sent as early as possible to live in another country or countries...[/quote]


DeCamp said he was orphaned but I don't recall at what age and don't believe he said how his parents died.

The thoughts about sending children as young adults is interesting. I did ask DeCamp how he managed to get to Iran and what he did when he was there. His response was memorable and weird: he rolled his eyes, tipped back in his chair while moving to clasp his hands behind his head. He then tipped back forward, shrugged and impatiently said, "I lived with the Persians and I learned to speak farsi."

So if we just play around with the notion that DeCamp was in training and that he was an MK Ultra test subject, where does that take us?
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Postby Percival » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:55 am

So if we just play around with the notion that DeCamp was in training and that he was an MK Ultra test subject, where does that take us?


Image

:shrug:
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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:46 am

Percival wrote:

So if we just play around with the notion that DeCamp was in training and that he was an MK Ultra test subject, where does that take us?



Edited to remove potentially triggering graphic



I understand your concern, Percival, and hesitated to post what I did because of the conjecture factor.

I do think that discussing a possible military mind control angle can have value though. At the very least, people who are interested in trauma based mind control can learn something more about the mechanics of it.

It's not so easy to understand how the perps operate, even those of us who have been subjects of it can have a hard time, and I've seen from my interactions with concerned friends and researchers that it takes a while for them to get a handle on what's going on.

This thread, obviously, can explore many other facets and go in multiple directions, certainly there are no limits. I agree that conclusions must be evidence-based, but since we're not interacting face-to-face, where we might brainstorm and informally discuss various hypothesis', I propose that we consider this line of inquiry as a thought process i.e. we're following various clues and red flags, seeing where it might lead.

Remaining clear that we're dealing with conjecture, we can try to find more information about DeCamps' past and see if the shoe fits. We could only be sure about it if we stumble on proof or if DeCamp himself breaks down and writes a second expose`, this one about himself and how he was a subject of "Bluebird" or something like that (I'm not holding my breath).

That said, it's not so easy to prove MK Ultra involvement. Perps don't notarize photos and documents about programs involving kids. Secrecy covers up the crimes.

But we can discuss it and learn from each other.


Re: The Alice in Wonderland graphic- Percival, I know you were just trying to illustrate a point you were making, and I don't really want to go deep into this because it's off topic but, the perps use stories, songs and fairy tales, etc in the programming of children, as hypnotic anchors and activation cues. The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland are two of the most widely used.

For this reason, in discussions about mind control in which survivors in various stages of their healing are participating, it's not a good idea to insert illustrations from these stories...
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Postby Paloma » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:57 am

Given DeCamp's history in Totem Town, his time in Iran, his work with Colby (CIA Director), the circumstances surrounding the discovery of the Franklin Scandal and LaRouche's involvement prior to the discovery, and the contradictions that exist in the persona of DeCamp and Gunderson....it might be wise to rethink DeCamp and consider that what appears to be a "horse" may not be a "horse" at all, but might be a "zebra".

We lose nothing by re-evaluating the landscape, especially since we know DeCamp had a history of working with individuals in the intelligence community.
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Postby LilyPatToo » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:23 pm

Paloma wrote:I've met MK type survivors who are now in their early sixties who had very sophisticated programming that began in early childhood. They weren't just being experimented on, the programming resulted in their being used operationally. So in the mid-1940's the technology was already being used to create operatives. Do we really know when our military/gov began grooming and programming abused children that fit a certain profile?

Welcome, Paloma--I'm really glad that you found RI. I'm pretty certain it was in Ross's book Bluebird/The CIA Doctors that an actual memo on that subject (from Dr. Gottlieb) was published. It specifically instructed agents to be on the look-out for (among others) children and psychics. Also, Dr. Estabrooks (if he's to be believed--he was a braggart) claimed to be so far along by WWII that he could create securely partitioned-off alternate personalities in soldiers that could be exploited as couriers.

During the late 40's or the early 50's, while we had an OSS, later CIA, agent in our family, is when I believe I was "volunteered" for a program. I'm in my early 60's now.

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Postby chiggerbit » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:34 pm

When did deCamp have time to get his law degree?
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Postby Percival » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:42 pm

Free wrote:Percival wrote:

So if we just play around with the notion that DeCamp was in training and that he was an MK Ultra test subject, where does that take us?





I understand your concern, Percival, and hesitated to post what I did because of the conjecture factor.

I do think that discussing a possible military mind control angle can have value though. At the very least, people who are interested in trauma based mind control can learn something more about the mechanics of it.

It's not so easy to understand how the perps operate, even those of us who have been subjects of it can have a hard time, and I've seen from my interactions with concerned friends and researchers that it takes a while for them to get a handle on what's going on.

This thread, obviously, can explore many other facets and go in multiple directions, certainly there are no limits. I agree that conclusions must be evidence-based, but since we're not interacting face-to-face, where we might brainstorm and informally discuss various hypothesis', I propose that we consider this line of inquiry as a thought process i.e. we're following various clues and red flags, seeing where it might lead.

Remaining clear that we're dealing with conjecture, we can try to find more information about DeCamps' past and see if the shoe fits. We could only be sure about it if we stumble on proof or if DeCamp himself breaks down and writes a second expose`, this one about himself and how he was a subject of "Bluebird" or something like that (I'm not holding my breath).

That said, it's not so easy to prove MK Ultra involvement. Perps don't notarize photos and documents about programs involving kids. Secrecy covers up the crimes.

But we can discuss it and learn from each other.


Re: The Alice in Wonderland graphic- Percival, I know you were just trying to illustrate a point you were making, and I don't really want to go deep into this because it's off topic but, the perps use stories, songs and fairy tales, etc in the programming of children, as hypnotic anchors and activation cues. The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland are two of the most widely used.

For this reason, in discussions about mind control in which survivors in various stages of their healing are participating, it's not a good idea to insert illustrations from these stories...


Yea I understand. Didnt mean it like that, I agree these things need to be looked at, for sure, just saying it gets crazy when you start looking.

:D
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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:01 pm

Lilipat wrote:
I'm pretty certain it was in Ross's book Bluebird/The CIA Doctors that an actual memo on that subject (from Dr. Gottlieb) was published. It specifically instructed agents to be on the look-out for (among others) children and psychics. Also, Dr. Estabrooks (if he's to be believed--he was a braggart) claimed to be so far along by WWII that he could create securely partitioned-off alternate personalities in soldiers that could be exploited as couriers.

During the late 40's or the early 50's, while we had an OSS, later CIA, agent in our family, is when I believe I was "volunteered" for a program. I'm in my early 60's now.


Thanks for this, Lilipat.

I'm looking at Carol Rutz's excellent book - "A Nation Betrayed". Carol is a survivor who was born in 1947. I'm friends with another who was born in 1946 or 47, grew up on military bases, and was given sophisticated programming. I've met others.

The technology could have been developed even earlier, but we know that there was a group of kids programmed right after the war ended. Someone born in 41 could have feasibly been part of this group.

BTW this quote was from me: It was confusing.
I've met MK type survivors who are now in their early sixties who had very sophisticated programming that began in early childhood. They weren't just being experimented on, the programming resulted in their being used operationally. So in the mid-1940's the technology was already being used to create operatives. Do we really know when our military/gov began grooming and programming abused children that fit a certain profile?


Paloma - To mark a passage as a quote, highlight the passage then click on the quote box above. Above the quote you can write in who's words you're quoting then bold it. You do bold, italics etc in the same way.
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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:09 pm

Percival wrote:
Yea I understand. Didnt mean it like that, I agree these things need to be looked at, for sure, just saying it gets crazy when you start looking.


I don't think it has to get crazy. It all depends on how it is discussed.

PS. Since the Alice in Wonderland graphic can be triggering, and it's repeated three times, what would you say if we do this- Leave the original one, the first graphic you posted, so there is continuity and a reader can follow what we're talking about, and remove the other two i.e. we edit the second and third times it appears?
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