John deCamp

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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:23 pm

Chiggerbit wrote:
When did deCamp have time to get his law degree?


Good question. I looked for info about when he graduated from law school and couldn't find any but he ran for the senate when he was still in Vietnam, won, and served from 1971 (he would have been 30) to 1987. Therefore I would think that he went to law school before he went to Nam, in his early 20's.

What I don't get is when he had time to get fluent in six languages. I mean, it's no doubt an exaggeration, but six languages???
Last edited by Free on Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cordelia » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:23 pm

Free:[/quote]I don't think it has to get crazy. It all depends on how it is discussed.

PS. Since the Alice in Wonderland graphic can be triggering, and it's repeated three times, what would you say if we do this- Leave the original one, the first graphic you posted, so there is continuity and a reader can follow what we're talking about, and remove the other two i.e. we edit the second and third times it appears?[/quote]

Thank you Free. I agree--it doesn't have to get crazy and the graphic doesn't need to be repeated.
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Red Flags

Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Paloma wrote:
Given DeCamp's history in Totem Town, his time in Iran, his work with Colby (CIA Director), the circumstances surrounding the discovery of the Franklin Scandal and LaRouche's involvement prior to the discovery, and the contradictions that exist in the persona of DeCamp and Gunderson....it might be wise to rethink DeCamp and consider that what appears to be a "horse" may not be a "horse" at all, but might be a "zebra".

We lose nothing by re-evaluating the landscape, especially since we know DeCamp had a history of working with individuals in the intelligence community.

and
So if we just play around with the notion that DeCamp was in training and that he was an MK Ultra test subject, where does that take us?


These are some of the red flags I see:

*Wildly inappropriate sexual advances towards both women and men

Men and women who were sexually abused as children often exhibit extreme, out-of- control and addictive sexual "acting out" (or they may go to the other extreme and shut down sexually, become a celibate nun or monk, etc). The bisexual "swinging both ways" can be a result of having both male and female "alters" (alternate personalities).

* Being orphaned and in an institution as a child

These are places where perps find victims.

* His CIA history

Self-explanatory


To the non-survivors who are reading this- Most of the survivors you will meet are people who chafed at the bit, struggled for a long time to get away and finally succeeded. Most may have NEVER accepted the yolk that was put on them at birth or at an early age, they just couldn't figure out how to get away without losing their lives.

There are others though, who never rebel and for whatever reason, go along with the cult mind control agenda with little or no protest. My siblings, for example, are not evil and not sociopaths, but out of loyalty to my parents and fear, they've been controlled all their lives and have never tried to get away.

The "cult" wants it's subjects to surrender their will and their lives to the cult and do their bidding for their entire life. Rewards can be materially substantial, or other perverted pay-offs, for those who value such things.

Their brand of security is really slavery, but not everyone sees things the way I do.

At a certain point in a mind-controlled subjects life, perhaps in their early 40's or 50's, maybe earlier and sometimes later, the higher-ups would prefer a conscious surrender of the will, an accepting of one's "fate," a conscious collaboration and partnership, even though a highly dissociative person will most likely retain areas of dissociation.

Therefore, many who were abused join the ranks of the abusers and the cycle continues....

That is, until people like us come along...
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A tidbit on DeCamp

Postby Paloma » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:33 pm

Before we realized that John DeCamp is not who/what he appears to be, we made the mistake of asking him to review a case file to see if he would take an appeal to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis. DeCamp is not "admitted" at the Federal level so he could not argue the case unless another attorney who was "admitted" agreed to allow DeCamp to argue under his accreditation.

When I put my house back together (big construction project) I'll dig out the actual paperwork and use the language on it. Doesn't that seem a bit weird for a "powerful Nebraska and ex-state Senator"?
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Postby Percival » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:59 pm

Ok I took the picture out. I like Alice in Wonderland but I guess I can see where it may be a problem for some.

FWIW my companion is an SRA survivor with many parts, so I have first hand experience how difficult a life that is, it took us many years to work through it and I stuck by her through thick and thin and she was finally able to move forward with her life and it is no longer an issue for her but that took a lot of work, a lot of heartache, a lot of crying and very trying time for the both of us. She taught me a lot about life and helped me understand that things are not always what they seem to be. Because of her I have dedicated my life to studying, writing and teaching about these matters to help other victims overcome and those who dont know about it understand it. I am not expert on it but certainly a student of it.
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Postby Percival » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:10 pm

Free wrote:Percival wrote:
Yea I understand. Didnt mean it like that, I agree these things need to be looked at, for sure, just saying it gets crazy when you start looking.


I don't think it has to get crazy. It all depends on how it is discussed.

PS. Since the Alice in Wonderland graphic can be triggering, and it's repeated three times, what would you say if we do this- Leave the original one, the first graphic you posted, so there is continuity and a reader can follow what we're talking about, and remove the other two i.e. we edit the second and third times it appears?


Well to me it is crazy no matter how it is discussed, it is just mind blowing when you start to peel off the layers and see what lies beneath and how at the end it is ALL connected one way or another, its never what it seems to be, I know that much.
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Postby Project Willow » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:14 pm

Free wrote:maybe earlier and sometimes later, the higher-ups would prefer a conscious surrender of the will, an accepting of one's "fate," a conscious collaboration and partnership, even though a highly dissociative person will most likely retain areas of dissociation.


Would you please explain what you mean by that statement as it is in direct opposition to my experience. Thanks.
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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:46 pm

I wrote:
At a certain point in a mind-controlled subjects life, perhaps in their early 40's or 50's, maybe earlier and sometimes later, the higher-ups would prefer a conscious surrender of the will, an accepting of one's "fate," a conscious collaboration and partnership, even though a highly dissociative person will most likely retain areas of dissociation.


Project Willow asked:
Would you please explain what you mean by that statement as it is in direct opposition to my experience. Thanks.


Hi Willow,

Before I try to address your question, I want to say that I'm not claiming to be some kind of big authority on all aspects of the Cult. What I write is my level of understanding at the present, and I could be wrong on some things. My wish here is to further explore these issues with you and other survivors (and non-survivors) to see if we can come to an even deeper understanding. I'd be very open to hearing your experience, views, or whatever you want to share on this, although it might be better if we start another thread since this one's on John DeCamp.

I base what I'm saying on my own experience, that of other survivors I've met plus the opinions of some advocates and therapists who have had lots of contact with survivors.

I too never had the experience of my family or other Cult perps demanding my conscious allegiance- I got (physically) out of the cult in my late 20's.

But in my healing and deprogramming process I have had to deal with memories of them setting up pseudo-mystical scenarios involving torture where they created double binds anchored at certain dates and a time for total surrender of the will. I needed to deactivate this programming as part of breaking free.

This program felt like a web that was wrapped around me and binding me like a mummy, keeping me misaligned and separate from LIFE, LOVE, other people and my intrinsic self.

This is a big topic, one that baffled me for a long time...and as I said I'm not claiming to be any kind of absolute authority. I'm still exploring and since I got out of the Cult relatively young, I'm relying on a combination of insight gleaned from the memory process, common sense and the testimony of others.

I'm not sure if what I've written here has answered your question but I'm willing to discuss it further either on the board or via pm.
Last edited by Free on Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:07 pm

Percival wrote:
FWIW my companion is an SRA survivor with many parts, so I have first hand experience how difficult a life that is, it took us many years to work through it and I stuck by her through thick and thin and she was finally able to move forward with her life and it is no longer an issue for her but that took a lot of work, a lot of heartache, a lot of crying and very trying time for the both of us. She taught me a lot about life and helped me understand that things are not always what they seem to be. Because of her I have dedicated my life to studying, writing and teaching about these matters to help other victims overcome and those who dont know about it understand it. I am not expert on it but certainly a student of it.


Wow. Thanks for sharing this Percival, I'm touched. That's beautiful, the kind of deep, real love you're describing is so transformative.

It really means a lot to me when non-survivors like yourself, who could just turn their backs and walk away, care enough to stick with it even though looking this type of abuse in the eye is more grueling than most anything else I can think of.

It's great that you've dedicated yourself to studying, writing and teaching about this...and we're all on a learning curve...I'm so glad that Jeff started this blog where we've been able to connect and learn more.

Big hug to you and your companion.
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Postby Free » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:22 pm

Paloma wrote:
Before we realized that John DeCamp is not who/what he appears to be, we made the mistake of asking him to review a case file to see if he would take an appeal to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis. DeCamp is not "admitted" at the Federal level so he could not argue the case unless another attorney who was "admitted" agreed to allow DeCamp to argue under his accreditation.

When I put my house back together (big construction project) I'll dig out the actual paperwork and use the language on it. Doesn't that seem a bit weird for a "powerful Nebraska and ex-state Senator"?



I'm no law expert but it does seem weird.
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Postby chiggerbit » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:28 pm

What I don't get is when he had time to get fluent in six languages. I mean, it's no doubt an exaggeration, but six languages???


Well, I don't know what deCamp's ethnicity is, but it might not be an exaggeration. He could have grown up bi-lingual. And if he was a Crosiers' kid, Latin might be one of the languages he's counting. Then there's Farsi and Vietnamese. In Vietnam, French would be logical. If Spanish was one of his languages, that together with Latin would make Italian and Portuguese pretty easy to learn. Besides, I don't think anyone disputes that he's likely a pretty smart dude.
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DeCamp

Postby sw » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:28 pm

After reading about DeCamp and Colby, I questioned whether they were as close as DeCamp implies. I also had originally thought DeCamp portrays Colby as someone who was just. I read in other places, can't find the places now, but there was the strong opinion that Colby went forward with CIA testimony not because he was ethical or that into justice, but because he had to.

I read this about one week ago and never saved the link.

The article also touched on themes that he was not murdered because he was a just guy going forward but because he was a bad guy who got crossways on other deadly issues.

This reading cleared up my original beliefs that DeCamp equals just guy who was life long buddies with Colby who was also trying to be just guy. Maybe I'm the only one who walked away from the info this way originally.
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DeCamp....a smart dude?

Postby Paloma » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:39 pm

OMG! Chiggerbit. I'm sorry, but after having spent time with DeCamp I have to say that I came away with the impression that he is not smart at all. Just my opinion, but I did not see evidence of anything that indicated that he was even of average intelligence.

He makes a lot of claims but there is nothing substantive to indicate that he was the brains behind anything. What did he do w/Phoenix Project? LaRouchie's "discovered" the Franklin Cover-Up AND made the writing and publishing of the book possible - according to themselves with corroboration from DeCamp and the La Rouchie's. Alisha Owen and Paul Bonacci got no justice.

John DeCamp is not admitted to the Federal Bar, which is why he cannot argue in Federal Court. I imagine this is because he could not pass the test.

A Partner at a law firm in downtown Minneapolis once said, "A lawyer is the only professional who gets his doctorate degree without ever needing to have an original thought."
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Postby lightningBugout » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:49 pm

LaRouchie's "discovered" the Franklin Cover-Up


What does this mean? Thanks.
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Re: A tidbit on DeCamp

Postby JM » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:11 pm

Paloma wrote:Before we realized that John DeCamp is not who/what he appears to be, we made the mistake of asking him to review a case file to see if he would take an appeal to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis. DeCamp is not "admitted" at the Federal level so he could not argue the case unless another attorney who was "admitted" agreed to allow DeCamp to argue under his accreditation.



Back in the day before computers with Google and background checks you could say anything about yourself you wanted.
A fine example is tlg's resume.
Now he says he is an Interpol agent (hahaha) he used to have a DEA badge but it was confiscated during Michael's trial. he threw a fit according to someone I knew who was present. Probably didn't help MR much since he was supposed to be a witness for him
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