Nick Bryant book discussion thread: The Franklin Scandal

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Nick Bryant book discussion thread: The Franklin Scandal

Postby bks » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:12 pm

There are several threads going on about "Franklin". Please limit posts in this thread to discussion/questions coming out of a reading of the book.

I'll say at the outset that my impression of the book is highly favorable. I think it's a great achievement, and the accumulated evidence is quite sufficient to prove the existence of a child prostitution ring of the kind testified to by the five people Bryant got on record (five thus far - I still have 100 pages to go). Still, my interest in this thread is primarily in applying pressure to parts of the case that are most susceptible to questioning, for the purpose of strengthening the case. If others want to discuss the strongest aspects of the case Bryant has assembled, I'm all for that as well.

In case it needs to be said, I'm not a victim of the scandal. I'm interested in full disclosure and justice, and think that every US citizen is entitled to both.

Given the extraordinary amount of information presented and the large number of threads running through it, I'm going to just start with a topic without any structure in mind, and see where it goes. Feel free to suggest your own discussion points, but let's please keep this focused specifically on issues arising from a reading of Bryant's book.

So:

1. pp. 118-119. At a few points in the book, we come across information evidence that, if it ever publicly available, would be a "game-changer". This is one of the places. Bryant reports that Caradori and Ormiston visit one of the charter plane companies that transported kids with L. King, and find itineraries with children's names on them. They strike gold, IOW. They make copies, but are forced to surrender them before leaving, which they do, reluctantly. They leave with nothing. Caradori requests the documents through a contact at the National Credit Union Administration.

In the meantime, while he waits for them, his own records are subpoenaed by the FBI. He turns over to the Omaha FBI in person. While there, he sees a file from the charter company from which he has requested the charter flight records on the agent's desk as he submits his own.

When the charter flight records arrive to Caradori, they have been altered, with the children's names removed.

QUESTIONS/ISSUES: This episode has several aspects to it that might be reasonably considered convenient to a skeptic: first, that Caradori and Ormiston saw the records they claim, only to be forced to turn over the photocopies (they couldn't find a way to keep any of them?); second, that Caradori conveniently happened to see the records he had requested sitting on an Omaha FBI agent's desk (implying that the Omaha FBI had a role in their alteration); and third, that when the records arrived, they were altered.

It's entirely possible this is exactly what happened. Still, it's convenient, because records showing children on the flights would be very hard to explain away. Can anyone answer:

a. Did Caradori and Ormiston try visiting the other charter companies and searching their records? We know he was rebuffed by one (p.118), but given the importance of this lead, and given how dogged he was, would he not have tried the others? Did he? Bryant does not say.

b. Has Ormiston confirmed the outlines of this account? I believe Bryant took this account not from Ormiston, but from Caradori's investigation notes. Perhaps I missed it in the book.

c. Are there any publicly available flight manifests with the children's names on them?
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private airplanes

Postby sw » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:02 pm

Before I started reading about the Omaha ring, I had extensive memories from the Omaha sex ring. FWIW, I was always taken in a private aircraft to places like California for the Bohemian Grove events. The size of the craft full of other children matches my memories exactly.

Not a help to Nick on getting proof, but I am proof as I can say I was on one of those planes. I would have been on the planes around 1970 - 1973 span.

Also of note given my dad's involvement. He worked at TWA for awhile in this time frame. Wonder if TWA had any charter jets. Maybe no connection, but usually there are so many connections.
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Postby Jeff » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:47 pm

King's flights were reminding me of Hopsicker's turning over the rocks in Florida's charter industry, so I asked Nick about his investigation of the carriers involved. He said King used three or four, and that he believes one was very dirty but he couldn't get the goods on it, and that the others were paid very well to keep quiet.
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flight attendants

Postby sw » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:57 pm

I have researched the charter services and hit walls too.

I wonder if they had flight attendants who would talk. We were not allowed to talk on the flights. It was always a flight at night usually. It's not like we were served beverages. But, I do remember each flight had a female person who reminded me of a flight attendant. I was aware of her presence. She did not seem to be part of the perp group. She was part of the assigned crew. She wore flight attendant garb and her hair was done like flight attendants.

We never walked through big airports. They were always little bitty airports. Always dark outside. We were in flight to the Grove and then back usually in the same night.
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another route

Postby sw » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:17 pm

Something that I have been thinking about lately in tracking the political perps is the SS bodyguard involvement.

These guys have to code their time on their time and attendance logs. These logs would give a good picture of where the perps were because the SS would have to file travel vouchers and turn in receipts for the gasoline, car rentals, hotel rentals etc. And, their time would be logged. Night time differential, weekend differential, OT etc.

Maybe the PP's (political perps) were not accountable but their would be logs on the SS bodyguards.

Timecards, Mastercard receipts, phone card activities, vouchers for travel all show a trail. A Trail that might not have been erased.

I'd track them.
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Re: another route

Postby operator kos » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:57 pm

sw wrote:Something that I have been thinking about lately in tracking the political perps is the SS bodyguard involvement.

These guys have to code their time on their time and attendance logs. These logs would give a good picture of where the perps were because the SS would have to file travel vouchers and turn in receipts for the gasoline, car rentals, hotel rentals etc. And, their time would be logged. Night time differential, weekend differential, OT etc.

Maybe the PP's (political perps) were not accountable but their would be logs on the SS bodyguards.

Timecards, Mastercard receipts, phone card activities, vouchers for travel all show a trail. A Trail that might not have been erased.

I'd track them.


sure, but how do you get access to info like that? i tend to doubt you could file a foia for it.
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you're right

Postby sw » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:01 pm

Yes, you are right. It would have to be something the DOJ would have to track.

Or, the OSC or OIG. That already has not happened.

Checks and Balances are a myth.

Grasping in the dark at air....
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:51 pm

@SW:

Your recollection of the events of your trauma is even more chilling given the time you say it took place(the early 1970's)
Many historians and deep politic researchers alike often talk about this being the height of government black ops and such; with "Watergate" as the super limited hangout steamvalve.

While Franklin takes place in the 1980's, a time of Iran Contra/Mena/BCCI,
it's sickening to know how long such occurances were going on.

What's striking to me is how the mainstream view of Bohemian Grove, *once* it was revealed to be a real place where the rich and powerful confab; that it's just that....a place in the woods where political elite go to "unwind" and put on silly theatrical plays.

I wanted to ask you in your opinion, what is it about Omaha NE besides being the base of operations for these unthinkable situations involving kids?

Because you have Offut AFB being where Bush touches down on 9/11(where they are also running the war games from admittedly).
you have Omaha being where that kid went on a shooting rampage two years ago just as Bush was leaving a couple miles away. And I've heard about other odd stuff going on there.


Also, regarding finding info on charter flights and crews:

It's been established that the weapons used on the 9/11 flights were preplanted in the four planes, and that some of the hijackers were seen hanging with people in airport crew outfits at Dulles and Logan.
Yet it's now impossible to delve much into that aspect, given how much time has passed(and those are major carriers)

With these government/politician connected small planes, it may be impossible to look too much into it. Didnt Hopsicker find out a Mccain plane was connected to the airport importing drugs and training Mohamed Atta?
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Postby chiggerbit » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:10 pm

With these government/politician connected small planes


How did you conclude they were government or political? The planes, I mean, not the perps. Weren't they chartered?

Does Bryant get into Offut much?
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the book

Postby sw » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:33 pm

I would say all the jets were chartered jets.

I don't know why Omaha is such a hub. I've wondered that for awhile now.

None of the kids would talk on the planes. It was like zombieville. Tranced out. No one used the bathroom either. I'm guessing that they were told as I was told that the plane bathrooms were dangerous as in if you fell into the toilet, you'd get sucked out of the plane. I fully believed this too. That toilet noise scared the hell out of me even as a result even to adulthood.

I would pray for the plane to crash so we'd die, but that never happened.

The B.Grove was scary too. They'd put us in these very poorly put together wooden boxes that were supposed to look like coffins but they didn't. They put the kids in the "coffins" and then put the "coffins" on this big cart that I think might have been horse drawn. Maybe six or eight coffins per load. They were not double stacked. It was really late at night in the forest and they's cart us to the outer circle of the bon fire which was near the owl. They men were drunk and dancing and smelled of really bad vomit and Body odor. B.O. to this day is a really bad trigger for me.

They would have us kids set back from the bon fire kind of in the dark shadows. The men would pick which service station they wanted based on which kid they wanted to rape. I remember being on my back on what I think was a picnic table being raped. They men were in line waiting. A boy part was made being put in the coffin, a girl part was made during the rape and I think another kid part was made after the rape. It took me awhile to get the whole memory because each part only held a segment. There were all white men, no black men there. Bodyguards who looked like SS were on the very outer perimeter.

At a different event on a different date or year, they were doing a ritual at the owl. That is were I saw what I thought was a little boy being sacrificed by Kissinger who was in a robe doing all the altar stuff like in church. I felt guilty because I was relieved that the kid picked for the owl altar was not me. That kid never moved so my therapist said he was probably drugged and they fake killed him.

One time they took as out to a desert area that I later believe to be the China Lake area. It was really strange. It was hills, desert area. There was this half basketball court. They had driven us out in a van and we were made to play basketball with another group of kids. We only played for about 10 minutes when they stopped the game, took the other team of about six players and put them in another white van. They drove the other team away with all of us just watching. The van drove to a nearby cliff and then pitched the kids off the cliff to their deaths. They told us those kids were killed because they did not follow the rules. We were terrified. As I related this to my therapist, she asked if I ever lost site of the van and I said yes. The van had gone on a turn and then I saw it again on top of the hill. She asked if I saw the kids being thrown off up close and I said well they were wearing the same colored jerseys, it had to be them. She asked me if they were moving or screaming and I said no. I was really getting mad because she was acting like she did not believe me and I was sure they chunked those kids off the cliff. As we went through it , I realized my therapist was right. They must have had another van out there with dummies dressed in those colored jerseys because she was right, there was not movement or screams. So we were tricked into thinking they killed all of those kids.

I always did everything I was told not because I thought they'd kill me so much as they said if I didn't do it, they'd go after my sister and my little brother. That's why I get kind of mad at my family. I did a lot just to protect my siblings and they don't even believe me.
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Postby Percival » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:54 pm

Several people have mentioned the word 'evidence' and just to be clear and have a record of such here in this thread would anyone mind listing what they feel is actual evidence presented in the Bryant book, that proves the existence of the child-sex ring?
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Re: private airplanes

Postby Percival » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:10 pm

sw wrote:Before I started reading about the Omaha ring, I had extensive memories from the Omaha sex ring. FWIW, I was always taken in a private aircraft to places like California for the Bohemian Grove events. The size of the craft full of other children matches my memories exactly.

Not a help to Nick on getting proof, but I am proof as I can say I was on one of those planes. I would have been on the planes around 1970 - 1973 span.

Also of note given my dad's involvement. He worked at TWA for awhile in this time frame. Wonder if TWA had any charter jets. Maybe no connection, but usually there are so many connections.


The Franklin stuff broke in the early 80s and most victim accounts are from that time period also. So you are suggesting that this same organization was in place as early as 1970? I wonder just how far back this all goes. Also, how old were you at the time you were on these flights and are you a male or female, if female, how did they find you and the other females outside of Boys Town?

As I understand it, Boys Town was founded in 1921 so this all could go back that far and perhaps this was the purpose of its founding to begin with?

Good information and thanks for sharing, always a pleasure to read your posts.
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yes

Postby sw » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:32 pm

Yes, it was in place as early as 1970 because that is when I was involved.

But, I never saw any black men when I was there. I don't recognize Larry King. I only saw white men and they were always in suits. No blue collar guys.

I was involved in stuff in Kansas before the stuff in Omaha.
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Postby Percival » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:58 pm

Omaha is likely a hub because its.....Omaha. Just a place that no one really pays much attention to, the perfect place to do what they do without anyone taking any real notice.
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Postby lightningBugout » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:09 pm

xxx
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