California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

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California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:21 pm

150 thousand under evacuation

6,000 homes destroyed

Five Confirmed Dead as California Fires Quadruple in Size
A local fire captain says the fire has grown so powerful that firefighters have stopped trying to extinguish the flames and instead are focusing on evacuating residents
Image

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/five-co ... -1.6636921
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:28 am

https://www.chicoer.com/2018/11/09/pge- ... Jz7Qd_H_6s

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PARADISE — Downed PG&E power lines, amid high winds, may have sparked the deadly Camp Fire that has destroyed the town of Paradise and killed at least five people, according to firefighter radio transmissions reviewed by Bay Area News Group.

At about 6:33 a.m. Thursday, firefighters were dispatched to a vegetation fire “under the high tension power lines” across the Feather River from Poe Dam, where Cal Fire officials have pinpointed the fire’s origin on the agency’s incident page, according to hours of radio transmissions reviewed by this news organization. The first fighters arrived there at 6:43 a.m and noted the fire was being buttressed by 35 mph winds.

“We’ve got eyes on the vegetation fire. It’s going to be very difficult to access, Camp Creek Road is nearly inaccessible,” one firefighter told dispatch. “It is on the west side of the river underneath the transmission lines.”

The utility, which has already been criticized and sued in a number of other large and deadly fires across California, had announced beginning Tuesday that it might shut down power to the impacted parts of Butte County amid forecasts of high wind and low humidity. But it never did.

Butte County District Attorney Mike Ramsey said Friday that his office has been in discussions with Cal Fire to preserve the fire scene and any potential evidence for a possible criminal investigation.

Ramsey said he had no information that the Camp Fire was intentionally caused. He also said it was too early to know whether the cause of the fire could have been negligent in nature.

Cal Fire, Ramsey said, will investigate and determine the cause of the fire. Should a criminal case arise from the investigation, the District Attorney’s Office would be the prosecuting agency. The district attorney said it was not unusual for his office to become involved in fire investigations where there is loss of life.

Cal Fire spokesman Scott McLean emphasized the cause is still under investigation, but added that probe would include “electrical equipment.”

PG&E spokesman Jason King said no cause of the fire had been determined.

“We can’t speculate on the cause of the fire, there will be an investigation,” he said.

After the first radio call, an immediate, multi-alarm response was sent to the area by Pulga and Camp Creek roads, near the dam which is popular with kayakers and one of PG&E’s 10 hydroelectric stations along the north fork of the river. Google satellite images show PG&E transmission lines above Pulga and Camp Creek roads.

“The (reporting party) is calling from Poe Dam looking across under the high tension power lines. There’s a possible power line hazard,” a dispatcher alerted responding crews, including six engines and a number of more personnel.

At 6:34 a.m. and about eight miles west, another fire crew was dispatched to a report of a branch taking down residential power lines in the neighboring town of Magalia. During last year’s Sonoma and Napa county fires, within the first 90 minutes of the fires’ origin, Sonoma County dispatchers sent fire crews to at least 10 different locations for downed wires and problems with the electrical system amid high winds.

As firefighters rushed to the Poe Dam fire early Thursday morning, each truck acknowledged over the radio “Copy, power lines down,” as part of safety protocol for firefighters.

The first firefighter at the scene quickly recognized the seriousness of the situation and called for an additional 15 engines, four bulldozers, two water tenders and four strike teams and hand crews.

“This has got the potential for a major incident,” he told dispatch, alerting them to evacuate Pulga, the town immediately southwest, and to find air support.

On Tuesday night, PG&E first tweeted that power might be shut down to certain counties, including Butte County and about 26,500 customers in cities and towns including Berry Creek, Forest Ranch, Magalia and Paradise.

Over the next 48 hours, the utility tweeted out 17 different warnings of an impending Thursday morning shut-off. It even tweeted out a warning at 7:56 a.m. Thursday, more than an hour after the fire was reported under one of its downed power lines, that the shut-off was still an option.

ADVISORY FOR THURSDAY (11/8): Due to evolving weather & potential extreme fire danger, PG&E may proactively shutoff power for safety to some customers in parts of (counties): Lake, Napa, Butte, Plumas, Yuba, Sierra, Placer and Nevada. Learn more: https://t.co/OkH27t2G52

— PG&E (@PGE4Me) November 8, 2018

PG&E released a statement Thursday afternoon, almost nine hours after the Camp Fire first sparked, calling off the shut down “as weather conditions did not warrant this safety measure.”

“We want to thank our customers for their understanding and for their actions in preparation of a possible Public Safety Power Shutoff,” Pat Hogan, PG&E senior vice president of Electric Operations, said in the statement.” We know how much our customers rely on electric service, and we will only consider temporarily turning off power in the interest of safety and as a last resort during extreme weather conditions to reduce the risk of wildfire.”

On Friday, King declined to get into specifics about why PG&E called off the shut down, saying only: “We chose not to implement the public safety power shut off in any location.”

In its warnings, PG&E had warned of sustained winds of 20 to 30 miles per hour, with gusts of 40 to 50 mph forecasted overnight Wednesday into Thursday, lasting until late afternoon.

When implementing a Public Safety Power Shutoff the utility factors in strong winds, very low humidity, critically dry vegetation and on-the-ground observations.

PG&E’s stock plunged Friday by almost $8 a share, a more than 16 percent drop amid the fires blazing across the state. The decline wiped out PG&E’s entire gains for the year and was the biggest one-day decline for the stock since 2002.
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:06 pm

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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:51 pm

Why are all those trees in the photo at the top of the thread unburnt?

Was that from a back burn or was that where the fire travelled when it was out of control?
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Cordelia » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:32 am

Yesterday, NPR reported the number of people missing was reduced to about 100; today’s WAPO reports:

A week after the Camp Fire was sparked in Northern California, the death toll from the state’s deadliest wildfire in its history continues to grow. At least 63 people have died in the fire, officials said, including the remains of seven people discovered Thursday. But search teams continue to sift through an estimated 10,000 destroyed structures for signs of the people who remain unaccounted for, an ever-changing list of names amid the frenzy of new and canceled missing-persons reports. The number of missing people increased dramatically, to 631.

“You have to understand, this is a dynamic list,” Butte County Sheriff Kory L. Honea said. “Some days might be less people, some days might be more people, but my hope at the end of the day, we have accounted for everybody.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... e8b7d5c1c9

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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:01 pm

15,500 residences destroyed

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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Cordelia » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:55 pm

Tent city evacuees told they must move on after Camp fire

Los Angeles Times

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Evacuees from the Camp fire set up a tent city at the Walmart parking lot in Chico. (Marcus Yam / Los Angeles Times)

Debby Barbero of Chico is among the volunteers who have been coordinating donations and helping fire evacuees settle in in a tent city that has sprung up in a Walmart parking lot.

Barbero said there already was a homeless problem in Chico before so many displaced residents arrived, and it will only get worse.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california ... story.html
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Laodicean » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:46 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Why are all those trees in the photo at the top of the thread unburnt?

Was that from a back burn or was that where the fire travelled when it was out of control?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHKIBN2my2Y

This vid was posted back in Feb. 2018. People are commenting on the video now since Paradise lost.

Debra is right on point. We're waking up. I live about 25 miles from Paradise, I was advised to evacuate Thermalito, the 3rd time in 21 years. Agenda 21 wants to push people out of rural areas into large cities. Easier to control and kill large populations.
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Cordelia » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:31 am

Death toll rises to 71 in California wildfires as relatives search for the missing
Officials say more than 1,000 people are unaccounted for, but the true death toll remains unknown.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/


Interview w/mayor of Paradise, 90% residential homes burned; significantly, imo, 50% of business structures (Starbucks included) and most municipal/governmental buildings are still standing. https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510316/1a (scroll down to November 13, 2018 California's Deadliest Fire: The New Abnormal)

Thread started here just a short year ago...
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40721&start=0

"Conspiracy Theory/Theorists" in video repeated ad nauseam...how about 'Observations well deserving further scrutiny'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAqj2mXNPKc
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby American Dream » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:55 am

California Wildfires: A Working Class Issue

BY OAKLANDSOCIALIST ON NOVEMBER 12, 2018

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The wildfire in Butte County, CA.
The most devastating wildfire in California history.



Capitalist Cover Up
In 2012, Donald Trump claimed that the concept of global warming was a “hoax” invented by the Chinese. More recently, he changed his tune a little bit, now saying that he doesn’t think that it’s a hoax, but that it will change back.

Image
Clinton and Trump at presidential debate.
They had a “gentleman’s/ladies’ agreement” not to mention climate disruption.
And the media never called them on it.


More significant than what happens to spill out of the mouth of this lying idiot is the fact that he’s hardly ever been challenged on this issue. During the 2016 presidential elections, if Hillary Clinton mentioned the issue at all anywhere, we don’t know when. And, most significantly, neither she nor any of the questioners ever raised the issue during the “debates”.

It’s the same today with the wildfires, just as it was with the devastating hurricanes like Hurricane Michael: While the capitalist media is happy to give sensational reports, your chances of hearing them explain that these extreme weather/climate events are due to global climate disruption are just about as great as winning the jackpot in the Lottery. This booming silence is what is responsible for the general failure in the public’s mind to see global climate disruption not as something that might affect us in the somewhat distant future, but as the cause of global disasters right now and right here. And the result of this failure is that it’s easy for the capitalist politicians to simply avoid the issue, or as the liberal/“progressive” wing of the Democrats do, to support little minor tweaks that will basically have no effect on the current disasters and won’t prevent the long term global disaster that looms.

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Drought in Eastern Africa.
The lives of millions of people are threatened.
this is a global issue.


The problem is political
And yet, there are things that can be done. As this article in Oaklandsocialist shows, a fundamental change in how we produce food would lead to the soil absorbing huge amounts of the carbon dioxide that we produce. In the coming weeks, we hope to have a follow-up article to this.

But the main step is political. Agribusiness and the related industries, including the chemical industry, have too much profits involved to allow this alternative approach to agriculture to develop on a mass scale. It is the same with the oil industry and renewable energy sources.

Just as with all other issues, from racism, sexism and bigotry in general to poverty, it is being proven that the capitalist class and the system over which they rule – capitalism – are incapable of resolving this looming environmental disaster. Only the working class can resolve it. In order to carry out its historic mission, it has to organize as a class, build its own political party, and move towards seizing power. This is impossible as long as we are linked to one of the two parties of the owners of capital – the Democratic Party. We need a mass, working class party. Such a party could put forward some immediate goals:

Mass funding for the transformation of food production along the lines indicated here.

Mass funding for other steps including building a real mass transit system and a renewable energy system.

A 25 hour work week with no loss in pay, to allow workers more time to travel back and forth to and from work.

Expropriate the oil industry.


These are just a few steps that would be necessary and possible along the road to a socialist society, with production planned and under the democratic control and management of the working class itself.

Image


Image
The wildfire in Butte County, CA.
The most devastating wildfire in California history.


https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/11/12 ... ass-issue/
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:06 pm

The Terrifying Science Behind California’s Massive Camp Fire


It used to be that fires destroyed exurbs or scattered enclaves. Now they plow through cities.
JOSH EDELSON/Getty Images

Editor’s note: This is a developing story about California’s Camp Fire, Hill Fire, and Woolsey Fire. We will update it as more information becomes available.

At 6:30 am on November 8, a wildfire of astounding proportions and speed broke out in Northern California. Dubbed the Camp Fire, at one point it was burning 80 acres a minute.

When it hit the town of Paradise, home to 27,000 people, those buildings became yet more fuel to power the blaze. It has destroyed almost 12,000 structures. For perspective, the previously most destructive wildfire in state history, Tubbs Fire that raged through the city of Santa Rosa last year, destroyed 5,500 total structures.

The death toll so far stands at 71. That makes it by far the deadliest wildfire in California history. Over 1,000 people are still missing. And the blaze is just 40 percent contained, with an estimated full containment date of Nov. 30.

“We're seeing urban conflagrations, and that's the real phase change in recent years,” says Stephen Pyne, a wildfire expert at Arizona State University. It used to be that fires destroyed exurbs or scattered enclaves. “But what's remarkable is the way they're plowing over cities, which we thought was something that had been banished a century ago.”

The Camp Fire horror show, which burned 70,000 acres in 24 hours, and has now reached 140,000 acres, is a confluence of factors. The first is wind—lots of it, blasting in from the east. “We have a weather event, in this case a downslope windstorm, where, as opposed to the normal westerly winds, we get easterly winds that are cascading off the crest of the Sierra Nevada,” says Neil Lareau, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Nevada, Reno.

A windstorm barreling from the east set the stage for this disaster. It’s a normal phenomenon that comes from the jet stream, which this time of year grows stronger. North and south “meanders” in the jet stream, known as troughs and ridges, get amplified. These cold air masses travel through the Great Basin in Nevada and spill over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in eastern California. Big meanders set up very-high-pressure areas that accelerate winds.

“Then they get local accelerations on top of that as they flow down the mountain ranges, kind of like water over a dam,” Lareau says. Some areas in California are particularly prone to downsloping winds. “Unfortunately, right where the Camp Fire is is one of those places.”

“I always like to say nothing good comes from an east wind in California,” Lareau adds.

As the air descends at an accelerating pace, it warms up and drives the relative humidity down. Which brings us to our second factor in the horror show: fuel—lots of it. It may be November, but California is still extremely dry, which means plenty of vegetation that’s primed to go up in flames.

The east winds further dehydrate the vegetation. This is where something called the evaporative demand drought index comes in. “You can think about it as how thirsty the atmosphere is,” Lareau says. “How strongly does the atmosphere want to pull water out of the vegetation and out of the ground?”

Very strongly, in the case of the Camp Fire and those downslope winds. So it isn’t just a matter of things being generally dry for the season in Northern California—ground and vegetation moisture fluctuates day to day, too. Scientists can calculate this in part by going out and cutting vegetation, weighing it, drying it out, and weighing it again.

“This tells us those fuels have been drying out really, really rapidly over the past few days and into this event,” Lareau says. Just take a look at the eerily prescient tweet below from meteorologist Rob Elvington the day before the Camp Fire broke out.


So you’ve got hot, dry gusts of 40 or 50 miles per hour from the northeast pushing the fire, and the fire is itself creating wind, further accelerating the conflagration. As it moves along, embers fly out of the front of the fire. “As the fuels get drier, a smaller and smaller spark can leapfrog the fire through the landscape,” Lareau says. “That's just another way this thing comes up and bites you.”

“It's hot, dry, and windy, are your ingredients,” he adds. “We checked off all three here.”

That’s probably why the city of Paradise has suffered such astonishing losses. Urban areas aren’t supposed to burn, at least they haven’t been supposed to since San Francisco in 1906. They’ve been designed and built with better materials (read: a whole city isn’t made of wood alone anymore) and more defensible spaces. But with a conflagration like the Camp Fire, it can overwhelm an urban area by setting off hundreds or thousands of tiny fires, perhaps miles ahead of the main fire itself. There’s no single line to put up a fight, so firefighters are overwhelmed.

“It looks like it's another case where you've got billions and billions of embers riding with the wind,” Pyne says. “It only takes one ember to take out a house or a hospital. If there's any point of vulnerability, all those embers will find it.”

Shortly after the Camp Fire broke out, the Hill Fire erupted in Southern California near Thousand Oaks. And yet another, the Woolsey Fire, has burned 90,000 acres and destroyed at least 500 structures.

It was no coincidence that these fires landed all at once. “Literally the same air mass is what's causing the beginnings of a strong Santa Ana event ongoing now, as this air mass sags south through California,” Lareau says.

North or south, the state is extremely dry already. But these warm winds ripping through the Sierras are only making matters worse, siphoning what little moisture California’s vegetation has left. While the winds will likely die down a bit over the next few days, they’re due to pick back up again Sunday, which could bring still more fires.

This is what a climate change reckoning looks like. “All of it is embedded in the background trend of things getting warmer,” Lareau says. “The atmosphere as it gets warmer is thirstier.” Like a giant atmospheric mosquito, climate change is sucking California dry.

The consequence is fires of unprecedented, almost unimaginable scale. California cities are no longer safe from fire, and with climate change, things are only bound to get worse from here. Consider that seven of the 20 most destructive fires in state history have burned just in the last year.

“Mass shootings and mass burnings,” Pyne says. “Welcome to the new America.”
https://www.wired.com/story/the-terrify ... camp-fire/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:49 am

Cordelia » 17 Nov 2018 23:31 wrote:
Death toll rises to 71 in California wildfires as relatives search for the missing
Officials say more than 1,000 people are unaccounted for, but the true death toll remains unknown.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/


Interview w/mayor of Paradise, 90% residential homes burned; significantly, imo, 50% of business structures (Starbucks included) and most municipal/governmental buildings are still standing. https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510316/1a (scroll down to November 13, 2018 California's Deadliest Fire: The New Abnormal)

Thread started here just a short year ago...
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 21&start=0

"Conspiracy Theory/Theorists" in video repeated ad nauseam...how about 'Observations well deserving further scrutiny'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAqj2mXNPKc



FWIW I've seen that image at 3.05 at fires before, well that phenomenon. Its basically a small tornado of flame that rises to over ten times the height of the main fire front. Its pretty scary actually. I've been within a few hundred feet of one that was over one hundred feet high.

You don't need direct energy weapons when conditions are like they were around Paradise.

I saw that other thread too.

The reason you get large amounts of house loss and small amounts of tree loss like so many of stickdog's photos is what is called an ember attack. It looks and feels like a rain of fire. Trees cope with this fairly easily cos the ember isn't enough to cause them to ignite but they get trapped in houses -under eaves, in window sills and any number of other places around a house. Once an ember is trapped a house is a lot drier than a tree and often has flammable material in the places where the embers get trapped. Houses burn more easily than trees.

Fire also moves from house to house easier than from tree to tree. Crown fires - the sort of fires that show trees burning and setting each other alight are very, very hot. A cool fire can burn along dry vegetation thats fallen from green trees and ignite every home it touches once an area has been evacuated and there is no one there to put the fires out. That's what i see when I see those photos and also why I made that comment above. Cool fires are fightable and defendable if the organisation and logistics are up to it.

This is what an ember attack is like. Its full on.

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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Cordelia » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:06 am

Thank you for that info Joe...found this short clip by Oregon State University on research into how ember fires spread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X107z6c70eU

But, why would so many homes burn down to the foundation, while many non-residential buildings were untouched, less damaged and left standing?

Image


Image

Image

Image

Image


Meanwhile, Camp Fire's number of missing climbs higher...

On Saturday, Butte County Sheriff Kory Honea said that the list of people unaccounted for was up to 1,276 and that 63 victims have been tentatively identified.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 66875faa33
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:10 pm

But, why would so many homes burn down to the foundation, while many non-residential buildings were untouched, less damaged and left standing?

The residences/home that burned to foundation were built of wood, often with asphalt shingles, while the non-residential buildings have roofs and exteriors of stucco, brick, metal, etc. The residences that burn occur within less non-vegetated open space and more vegetation and other consumables by fire than the public/non-residential.


:lovehearts:
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Re: California Fires 31 Dead 200 Missing

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:32 pm

Cordelia » 18 Nov 2018 23:06 wrote:
But, why would so many homes burn down to the foundation, while many non-residential buildings were untouched, less damaged and left standing?



A big part of it is just luck. Also the surrounding area as PufPuf93 mentioned.

Nearly 10 years ago the Black Saturday fires in Victoria hammered two towns, Kinglake and Marysville.

Here are some images that show just how random this can be. One is a street in kinglake west where everything was wiped out but a few sheds in the middle of the fire. The other was Marysville where some homes survived while the entire street around them burned.

Image

Image

That was the hottest day in Melbourne's history, after a 15 yr drought and the fires were driven by >100km hr winds out of the North West and exacerbated by a SW change that turned a 20km flank into a 20km raging fire front with flame heights in the 100s of metres. yet still some houses survived.
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