Scotland Yard Coverup

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Scotland Yard Coverup

Postby ARV » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:37 pm

From the Guardian Wed. 17 Aug:<br><br>"New claims emerge over Menezes death<br><br>· Brazilian was held before being shot<br>· Police failed to identify him<br>· He made no attempt to run away<br><br>Rosie Cowan, Duncan Campbell and Vikram Dodd<br>Wednesday August 17, 2005<br>The Guardian<br><br>The young Brazilian shot dead by police on a London tube train in mistake for a suicide bomber had already been overpowered by a surveillance officer before he was killed, according to secret documents revealed last night.<br><br>It also emerged in the leaked documents that early allegations that he was running away from police at the time of the shooting were untrue and that he appeared unaware that he was being followed.<br><br>Relatives and the dead man's legal team expressed shock and outrage at the revelations. Scotland Yard has continued to justify a shoot-to-kill policy.<br><br>Jean Charles de Menezes died after being shot on a tube train at Stockwell station in south London on July 22, the morning after the failed bomb attacks in London.<br><br>But the evidence given to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) by police officers and eyewitnesses and leaked to ITV News shows that far from leaping a ticket barrier and fleeing from police, as was initially reported, he was filmed on CCTV calmly entering the station and picking up a free newspaper before boarding the train.<br><br>It has now emerged that Mr de Menezes:<br><br>· was never properly identified because a police officer was relieving himself at the very moment he was leaving his home;<br><br>· was unaware he was being followed;<br><br>· was not wearing a heavy padded jacket or belt as reports at the time suggested;<br><br>· never ran from the police;<br><br>· and did not jump the ticket barrier.<br><br>But the revelation that will prove most uncomfortable for Scotland Yard was that the 27-year-old electrician had already been restrained by a surveillance officer before being shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder."<br><br><br>Well at least Prime Minister Tony Bush can continue to oppress the people of the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if these journalists were tried using anti-terror laws.<br><br>Blair and Bush both Number Twos --- What in fact has been created? An international community. A perfect blueprint for world order. When the sides facing each other suddenly realize that they're looking into a mirror, they'll see that this is the pattern for the future.(The Prisoner) <p></p><i></i>
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I wonder what he saw...

Postby glubglubglub » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:16 am

It's almost certain this guy saw something very incriminating ( of the 'wrong' ) people in this case...he may not even have known that what he saw was significant, but whatever it was would have been sufficently potent once reporters started investigating the background of the 'bombers' that the safest course was to execute him.<br><br>The shooters probably bungled a 'suiciding' and proceeded to panic, and on the assumption they saw themselves as erring on the side of 'caution' probably indicates both a lot of their motive and the seriousness of whatever Mr. Menezes saw.<br><br>Given the prevalence of cctv in London it shouldn't be too hard to find oodles of cameras covering areas Mr. Menezes could have been viewing from his room (although there are other possibilities for where he saw whatever he saw for which this isn't relevant) and if the tapes aren't already seized and hidden away it might be possible to either round up some candidates for whatever he witnessed or, failing that, at least pin down something about the location and timeframe of concern...unless the tapes have been seized en masse.<br><br>My 2cents + suggestions for investigation (any UKers on or in arms' reach of this boad?), at least. <p></p><i></i>
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I wonder what he saw...

Postby Anonymous » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:35 pm

<br>From ITV.com (<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://snipurl.com/h00w):">snipurl.com/h00w):</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>"The report also said a post mortem examination showed Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but three other bullets missed, with the casings left lying in the tube carriage".<br><br>Presupposing there was one shooter and he emptied the gun, perhaps someone can identify, or narrow down the type of weapon used in the incident. One shell in the firing chamber and 10 in the clip. Special Forces weapon? <br><br>Eleven shots sure sounds like a "hit" to me, as in make sure he's dead. Anybody hear anything "funny" about de Menezes background?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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I wonder what he saw...

Postby Anonymous » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:45 pm

Duh.<br>Try this for the ITV link:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html">www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i></i>
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London Shooting: British Police issue weapon prob. used

Postby Starman » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:49 pm

OK: This is what I found; Recall, 2 weapons were reportedly shot, so less than a third of each magazine was used (assuming near-equal shots fired by each). The most probable weapon was the semi-auto Glock 17 in 9 mm (standard-issue, as news reports detailed spent shells, which eliminates use of the other standard-issue weapon, a six-shot S&W revolver). The Glock 17 weighs 21.175 ounces -- the '17' refers to total 'loaded' capability, 16 rounds magazine capacity, one in the chamber (designed-in trigger safety). Standard alternative-issue magazine capacities include 10 and 15 rounds also (mostly for compliance w/various US state laws). The larger Glock 18 in 9 mm can apparently be fitted with an after-market, relatively HUGE 32 round magazine (that sticks-out below the reciever-grip -- extremely unlikely as use by undercover officers).<br><br>Other models of Glock in 9mm or 40 cal. or the updated replacement H&K P2000 in 9mm might also have been issued to 'special' Police Forces, or to paramilitary-type anti-terrorist squads -- which information might be hard to verify.<br><br>from: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.flyinglead.info/bb/viewtopic.php?p=20785&">www.flyinglead.info/bb/vi...p?p=20785&</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.global-defence.com/2003/police_03.htm">www.global-defence.com/20...ice_03.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>--excerpt--<br>Standard UK police weapons are the semi-automatic Glock 17 pistol, the Smith & Wesson .38 Model 10 revolver and the highly effective Heckler & Koch MP5 sub-machine gun. The Model 10, first produced in 1899, has become a standard law enforcement weapon of good standing for very many years and it, along with its predecessors and its many variants, is in use by police forces around the world. A more recent addition to the arsenal is the Austrian Glock 17, an efficient, compact (186mm x 138mm) 9mm pistol that is proven in action. <br><br>This robust and reliable weapon first appeared in 1983 and although it is being improved continually it may soon be replaced in British service. A possible replacement for the Glock 17 is the newly introduced Heckler & Koch P2000, also 9mm and already chosen by several continental police forces. The military variant P8 also has been chosen for use by the German army. <br>*<br>This (below) is a very typical comment among hundreds I skimmed on maybe a dozen or more blogs while researching what kind of weapon the British Police are issued, posted during the week after Menezes was shot, and suddenly drying-up as attention was diverted to another issue; In this light, the longer the British officials didn't correct the initial reports, which we now know were WRONG, the more people tried this issue in their mind and sided with the police. -- Invariably, the story they backed was some variation of -- he jumped the turnstile and ran when challenged, he was wearing an unseasonable bulky coat, he didn't obey police orders to stop. Thus, he brought it on himself. In this context, the failure of officials to correct the record for 3 WEEKS was absolutely reprehensible, and those responsible for not disclosing true facts need to be held accountable for betraying the public trust.<br><br>By Belize:<br>Six armed men yell "Stop! Police!" and his reaction is to jump a turnstile and run toward a subway train? Would he try that in a major Brazilian city, especially one that just days earlier had experienced a major terrorist attack?<br><br>If he truly had no connections with an Islamic terrorist cell--a supposition that is not the final word, by any means--then his death is unfortunate, but brought about by his own actions. I now echo Apollo11's chanting of the Vonage theme. <br>--unquote--<br><br>AND, From the VERY wierd section that I stumbled on:<br><br>Posted by dsquared on 7/22/05 9:00:39 AM Permalink <br><br>I find it strange there aren't many press stories about an incident at Vauxhall. My colleague was on the tube and a rucksack had smoke coming out of it and the station was evacuated, with according to him people fighting each other to get out first. It's on the BBC's 'have your say' feature, but not mentioned anywhere else, except the Sydney Morning Herald, bizarrely. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.stalinism.com/shot-by-both-sides/full_post.asp?pid=1282">www.stalinism.com/shot-by...p?pid=1282</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Starman<br> <p></p><i></i>
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the guns

Postby glubglubglub » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:54 pm

Starman: the sunday times has pegged the guns as a modified H&K G3K and a mostly stock H&K G36C ( article here: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715192,00.html">www.timesonline.co.uk/art...92,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> ).<br><br>They claims are made with recourse to recently released photos as evidence, but the photos aren't linked directly in the article. <p></p><i></i>
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re: the guns

Postby Starman » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:22 am

Thanks for the info-link.<br><br>You know these are assault-rifle type carbines, eh? I know the witness statements have been been pretty contradictory of not just downright misleading or false, especially Mark Witby (sp?) who claimed Mr. Menezes had the look of a cornered rabbit, tripped-and-stumbled when he ran into the coach, to be tackled, pinned-down, and dispatched with 5-shots to the head (or something like that) -- while the latest Guardian article from a leaked report claimed Mr. Menezes entered the car and sat down, then stood and took a step towards a man who identified himself as a police officer, who then tackled Mr. Menezes, pushing him back into his seat and pinning his arms while one or two officers shot him about 11 times, only 8 shots finding their intended target.<br><br>By all accounts, and considering the evidence that Mr. Menezes did NOT vault the turnstile of flee from officers and was NOT wearing a bulky coat with 'wires' trailing from it -- there's clearly a huge cover-up going on. <br><br>Anyway, I doubt either the modified H&K G3K (Kurtz) or the H&K G36C ('C' for 'Commando') subcompact carbines were used to administer the vicious coup d'grace to the innocent Brazilian electrician, or witness statements would probably have featured this detail prominently. For a close-order take-down and controlled head-shots, the Glock 17 as a semi-auto handgun is MUCH more suitable weapon -- IMO, of course. The greater ballistic energy of the carbine's heavier 5.56 mm copper-coated solid-steel bullet compared with the 9mm copper-jacketed lead core also introduces the issue of secondary-penetration -- the 5.56 was designed to pierce 20 layers of ballistic Kevlar and a titanium plate, as well as penetrating an armoured vehicle. In this kind of extremely-close shooting, the rounds would not only have exploded Mr. Menezes head, but likely exited the train itself.<br><br>Interesting additional info:<br>Recent blog report with pictures of body-armoured uniformed Police officers in Nottinghamshire carrying H&K MP5 submachine gun (subcompact assault rifle) and Walther P990 semi-auto pistol (probably in 9mm) -- so these are additional weapons that the British Police officers may be equipped with.<br><br>Check-out these photos:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="https://www4.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2005/08/320811.html">/www4.indymedia.org.uk/en...20811.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Unencrypted web-address: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2005/08/320811.html">www.indymedia.org.uk/en/r...20811.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Also from this site, a sharp-eyed poster suggested the Time photo (Not available online) indicated the semi-auto sidearm issued the Police (in this case anyway) might have been the longer-barreled GL17 (about 1.5 inches longer, reduces kick and recoil and muzzle-flash).<br><br>From photos cited above: Almost looks like an occupation army -- oops, they are!<br>(DuH).<br><br>That would seem to be the plan, to get folks used to living under armed troops.<br><br>"A society where all citizens are relentlessly scrutinized by the ever present eye of a totalitarian surveillance state. Where false beliefs are ruthlessly conditioned, and the media is systematically altered in real-time to conceal the facts. A world where freedom has vanished, and truth is deemed to be morally relative. Engaged in a never ending war, against an invisible enemy from within and without. Where dissidents, thought criminals, and P.O.Ws are routinely killed and tortured, and where orthodoxy means you never question the authority of the all-powerful state." -- George Orwell, 1984<br><br>Sound familiar!? If it doesn't now, it will soon! <br><br>Regrdz;<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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