Loftus: London bombing mastermind is MI6 agent

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Loftus: London bombing mastermind is MI6 agent

Postby Qutb » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:38 pm

I posted this on <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4226243" target="top">DU</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->, hope it hasn't been moved to the 9/11 ghetto yet:<br><br>Former Justice Dept. prosecutor John Loftus claims alleged London bombing mastermind Haroon Rashid Aswat is a "double agent" who "works for the MI6". <br><br>For those who don't know who he is, Loftus is the author of "The Secret War Against the Jews", a (highly recommended) book resulting from his research into American corporations' and intelligence agencies' collusion with the Nazis before, during and after WWII, research which he conducted with an above top secret security clearance which gave him access to hitherto secret intelligence archives. He is now usually billed as a "terrorism expert".<br><br>Prosecutors in Seattle wanted to indict Aswat in 1999 for trying to set up a terrorist training camp in Bly, Oregon, but were ordered not to touch him by the highest level in the Justice Department. According to Loftus, the reason was that Aswat was an agent of British intelligence. He claims that "while British police were trying to catch him, the MI6 were trying to hide him". <br><br>Aswat allegedly left London for Pakistan on July 6, one day before the London bombing. He was then arrested in Pakistan, but released within 24 hours. He reportedly travelled to Zimbabwe and then Zambia, where he may have been arrested again (conflicting reports).<br>(http://www.foxnews.com / - click on "video" under "Answering questions", then click "Nabbed - finally".)<br><br>It would appear that someone's got some splainin' to do. Loftus says the CIA and Israeli intelligence have been critical of the MI6 for giving terrorists a free pass to operate in London, and he claims the reason for doing so has been "appeasement" - we leave you alone, you leave us alone. But many have suspected, long before 9/11, that radical Islamists have been used as a tool for Britain's covert foreign policy, notably in Bosnia in the 90s, when it is alleged that the MI6 clandestinely recruited young radicals in Britain's Pakistani community to fight a guerrilla war against the Serbs. <br><br>Former MI5 officer David Shayler has alleged, and French intel sources have corroborated, that the MI6 paid a Libyan al-Qa'ida cell £100,000 in 1995 to assassinate colonel Qaddafi. <br>(see <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/shayler/0,2759,339663,00.html" target="top">this</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> Guardian collection of stories on Shayler)<br><br>And then there's this, reported in the Independent in January this year:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Independent is reporting today that in his testimony before a US military tribunal, Bisher al-Rawi claims that he acted as a "go-between" for MI-5 and Abu Qatada, "the militant Islamic cleric alleged to be al-Qa'ida's "spiritual leader" in Europe." Al-Rawi was seized (kidnapped?) by US intelligence agents in 2002 while on a business trip to Gambia, on the strength of his relationship with Qatada.<br><br>Al-Rawi has named three MI5 agents - "Alex", "Matthew" and "Martin" - and asked that they be called as defence witnesses. The tribunal agreed, but "the British Government refused to allow them to give evidence.<br><br>(...)<br><br>The Independent closes with this:<br><br>His claims follow allegations, by Islamist militants as well as French security sources, that Abu Qatada had contacts with British intelligence, which the Palestinian strongly denies. His legal advisers are adamant that he was only questioned as part of routine attempts by MI5 to gather intelligence about Islamist groups in the UK.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>(http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2 ... i5-asset... - The Independent link appears to have expired)<br><br>Haroom Rashid Aswat, Abu Qatada - which other "al-Qa'ida leaders" are or have been on Her Majesty's payroll, or at least have enjoyed cordial relations with Her security services? Isn't this a question the British media, in particular, ought to be asking? Furthermore, Mr Aswat is not the only "al-Qa'ida member" who appears to have been "untouchable" while in the US - the 19 9/11 hijackers and their associate Zaccharias Moussaoui seem to have been as well. The sabotage by the highest levels in the FBI of Coleen Rowley's desperate attempt to investigate Moussaoui, for instance, is a striking parallel to the "hands-off" order regarding Aswat, and it's far from being the only one. <br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.foxnews.com/video2/images/50_vid_usw_loftus_072905.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Want more confusion?

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:06 pm

This is a report which says that the FBI thought that they believed that Aswat died in the war in Afghanistan<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Aswat, on the other hand, was names as unindicted co-conspirator number three in the Ujaama indictment, according to feder al sources said. Meanwhile, the FBI thought Aswat was killed fighting in the war in Afghanistan. After leaving the Bly ranch, however, Aswat lived in Seattle for a few months in early 2000 in a now-defunct storefront mosque in Central Seattle called Dar-us-Salaam. Later that year, Dar-us-Salaam was damaged in an earthquake and shut down.<br><br>Investigation established that Aswat is perhaps not dead as suspected by the FBI, and had made as many as 20 cell phone calls to two of the bombers in the days leading up to the July 7, 2005 bombings in London , including one just hours before the bombs went off. He was just arrested by Pakistani authorities while carrying a belt packed with explosives, cash and a false ID.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/Propoganda.asp">www.homelandsecurityus.co...oganda.asp</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/aswat.jpg"/>">www.homelandsecurityus.com/aswat.jpg"/></a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The other stories about Aswat:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p097.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=30.topic">p097.ezboard.com/frigorou...D=30.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p097.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=121.topic">p097.ezboard.com/frigorou...=121.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Want more confusion?

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:26 pm

It gets better and better...<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.weblog.ro/blogger/post/print.php?pid=39917">www.weblog.ro/blogger/pos...?pid=39917</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>(...)<br><br>In August 2002, a grand jury in Seattle indicted a man named James Ujaama (of Seattle) for helping organize the camp. He pled guilty to "aiding" the Taliban but got an "extremely light sentence" (just 2 years) for agreeing to testify against Hamza, Aswat and others. By May 2004 a grand jury in New York had indicted Hamza on numerous terrorism charges. <br><br>But what about Aswat? Oddly he was never indicted at all. In fact, he was never even named in the indictment but referred to only as "co-conspirator #2". To this day, Aswat has never been included in the indictment:.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>At the time, however, federal prosecutors chose not to indict Aswat for reasons that are not clear. Asked why Aswat wasn't indicted, a federal official in Seattle replied, "That's a great question." <br><br>There had been some <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>confusion about whether Aswat was alive</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. But three years after the Ujaama indictment, the Justice Department has yet to follow through with the indictment of Aswat sought by its Seattle office. <br><br>(...)<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Yes it indeed a "great question" why one of Hamza's aides would not be indicted when the investigation was so thorough. I might add here that not a single person ever actually participated in the proposed Bly training camp. <br><br>I don't know how long Aswat stayed in the United States but reports indicate he's been living openly in (Batley) Britain for a while. Had the United States indicted him, he could've been arrested and extradited to face trial. And if he had been arrested, he would've been prevented from commiting whatever role he committed in the 7/7/05 bombings. <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>In fact, Hamza was arrested in May 2004 for extradition to the United States precisely because he was indicted. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>So was Aswat ever indicted or not? That seems to me to be something quite easy to prove. So the Seattle Times says they "stand by" their story, then clearly it's up to prosecutors to show the filed and dated paperwork indicting this guy! <br><br>What makes this even more suspicious is the ridiculousness of the camp Ujaama, Hamza and Aswat were trying to set up:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br><br>Looking back, Hamza must have been thrilled at the prospect of a new terror camp in the US. Indeed, he once told ABC News that America's laws make these camps easy to run, "like a picnic." But, alas, the training camp never blossomed as he hoped. In the two weeks that Hamza's trainers occupied Bly not a single recruit showed. The Seattle operators spent their time horseback riding, while Hamza's associates fumed.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4173">www.frontpagemag.com/Arti...sp?ID=4173</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>What's even weirder is a fourth man allegedly involved in setting up the camp, Oussama Abdullah Kassir, says he's <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>never even heard of Aswat</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->! And this is from a guy who publically praises Osama bin Laden. <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Kassir told Expressen that he did not know Aswat, commenting, "Haroon Rashid is a new name to me. When SAPO (Sakerhetspolisen, Sweden's Security Police) arrested me in 2003 I was asked questions about this man. I don't know who he is. I have never met him."<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050725-125508-9970r">www.wpherald.com/storyvie...5508-9970r</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>(...)<br><br>Wait! It gets even weirder: <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>One official noted that Mr. Aswat was raised in Dewsbury, the same area where Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, one of the four bombers, lived.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/007296.php&e=10342">www.jihadwatch.org/archiv...mp;e=10342</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Except this report ( <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx%3Farticleid%3D245990%26area%3D/london_terror/london_news/&e=10342">www.mg.co.za/articlePage....s/&e=10342</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> ) says he was born in Dewsbury but grew up in Batley, which is admittedly a short distance from 3 of the 7/7/05 bombers. <br><br>(...)<br><br>Except if Aswat was a double agent, then why would he be calling the 7/7 bomber(s) and not revealing their plans before they could implement them? <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Or was Aswat a triple agent</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, just pretending to feed information to authorities but still secretly loyal to Al-Qaeda or whomever the 7/7 bombers were aligned with. <br><br>The "double" or "triple" agent theory is a little weak however since hundreds of press reports stated that Aswat was the unnamed co-conspirator. Do international terrorist organizations read mainstream newspapers? <br><br>(...)<br><br>An even weirder angle is this report ( <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=45537&version=1&template_id=43&parent_id=19">www.gulf-times.com/site/t...rent_id=19</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> ) which says that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Aswat left Britain just two weeks ago</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, so yet another person may have been using his cell/mobile phone. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.weblog.ro/blogger/post/print.php?pid=39917">www.weblog.ro/blogger/pos...?pid=39917</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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MI6 Motivation and Purpose

Postby antiaristo » Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:59 pm

Confusion leads to suspicion leads to a search for motivation.<br>Would MI6 bomb London? Look at the timing.<br><br>I was born and bred in London (Battersea).<br>The vibe I’m picking up over the net is that London people believe this was the work of the SAS.<br>I’m inclined to agree – for the ruthlessness.<br>Pumping eight bullets into a prone man’s head is what they call “Butcher and Bolt”. It’s not police. It’s straight out of “Death on the Rock”.<br>So what’s this all about? I’ll give a hypothesis.<br><br>The word is now out about Queen Elizabeth and the Treason Felony Act.<br>She feels herself urgently threatened.<br>Her personal bodyguard is the SAS. The boys from Hereford don’t report to the Ministry of Defence, but straight to “The Palace”.<br><br>What does the SAS want to guarantee Her Majesty’s safety? The right to blow away anybody they deem a threat. A shoot-to-kill policy.<br><br>But how do you introduce such a policy?<br>You create a threat.<br>The ubiquitous “suicide bomber”.<br>You demonstrate the threat – on 7 July.<br>Why 7 July? She’s invested a ton of money and effort into taking the Olympics from the French. Let's get that first, then blow up Commoners.<br><br>Then you create a diversion – on 21 July – which just so happens to reinforce your original message. You put all your media and investigative effort into the second “bombing” (the harmless one).<br><br>Then you test out your shoot-to-kill policy – in the hands of the SAS, and nobody else. They are your Swiss Guard.<br><br>A “brown” man is executed for no reason that we know.<br>The story we are fed is a patchwork of lies.<br>Outrage rightly arises – in the “brown” community.<br><br>The focus is on the discrimination, and not the underlying murder.<br><br>What’s next?<br>Shoot to kill a "white" man?<br>Will everybody be happy then, because it is an equal opportunity shoot-to-kill policy?<br><br>And Her Majesty achieve her purpose?<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: MI6 Motivation and Purpose

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:40 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Ujaama has expressed increasingly radical views -recently echoing Abu Hamza's conspiracy theory that Washington likely had advance knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks but refused to intervene</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=3321">www.frontpagemag.com/Arti...sp?ID=3321</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Antiaristo, did you read the above? You have just expressed a radical view <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Of course MI6 would bomb London. Never trust an intelligence agency. They have killed too many already...<br><br>God Save The Queen (because queens can't be impeached)<br><br>P.S. I'll top convicted terrorist Ujaama with the even more radical view that the U.S. Government did 9/11 and the U.K. Government did 7/7. Damn it: I'm a radical! <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 7/30/05 3:44 pm<br></i>
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MI6 Motivation and Purpose

Postby antiaristo » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:28 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>God Save The Queen (because <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>queens can't be impeac</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->[/b]<br><br>Doc,<br>That's exactly my point.<br>Where change by peaceful means is impossible....<br>She knows the rest.<br>Which is why she feels urgently threatened.<br>And the need for a shoot-to-kill policy.<br>And the need to carry out this operation. <p></p><i></i>
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I know

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:59 pm

But getting rid of royalty is many times harder than getting rid of a President. The only way to get Kings and Queens off the thrown is by non-peaceful revolution and you know the rest. All other options are no solution, because even if one house dies out there is another who wants to take over and all royal families are interrelated... (and related to most presidents and prime ministers as well) <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 7/30/05 5:59 pm<br></i>
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One step at a time

Postby antiaristo » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:13 pm

Doc,<br>It's not going to be easy, but it's worth it.<br>So you agree with the premise. The purpose was always to introduce a shoot-to-kill policy in the Mainland UK. The timing was set by the Olympics award? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: One step at a time

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:25 pm

Not just the Olympics. I'll add G-8, Tony Blair's critisms and of course the Iraq war and the forthcoming pre-emptive nuclear war in Iran in the mix as well. <br><br>I think it is part of the War on Terra. Give up freedom so the government keeps you safe from the government's terror. It is a brilliant strategy played time and time again and it always seems to work.<br><br>I doubt whether they'll go for complete martial law like you imply, but more the Patriot Act variant which Bush passed with the London Bombing as the excuse as well. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Olympics?

Postby ZeroHaven » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:26 pm

HEY, the Olympics! Throughout the history of the sports, each city tends to "clean up" in order to make it more attractive to the world eye.<br>The show <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/21/1332237&mode=thread&tid=25" target="top">Democracy Now</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> recently had Dave Zirin talking about it briefly. He's not kidding, as can be verified through lots of searching (at end).<br><br>I'm wondering if some of the new laws might help with arrests of some shady characters, like the homeless.<br>I'm wondering if there's insurance money that can be used to finance some of the new structures.<br>I'm wondering if newer, fancier trains and buses are needed to transport all those people.<br><br>But sadly I don't know how to find out if any of this is happening. Maybe I'll see it in the news.<br><br>------------------------<br>Some random examples of clean-up:<br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14416209&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=greeks--to-gas-15-000-dogs-before-olympics--name_page.html" target="top">GREEKS 'TO GAS 15,000 DOGS BEFORE OLYMPICS'</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> in 2004<br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2001%20155detnews.htm" target="top">Utah focuses on cleaning up polygamy </a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> in 2002.<br>Atlanta's <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.criticalresistance.org/index.php?name=cratlanta_home" target="top">1990- Sweep of arrests prior to a visit from the International Olympic Committee</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>
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lATEST dEVELOPMENTS

Postby antiaristo » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:53 pm

UK bomb suspect arrested in Zambia<br><br><br>Saturday 30 July 2005, 21:25 Makka Time, 18:25 GMT <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/92671725-2A94-493A-9CC5-37D287479FEF.htm">english.aljazeera.net/NR/...479FEF.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Al Jazeera is on the job. Thank goodness.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Loftus: London bombing mastermind is MI6 agent

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:01 pm

Since someone brought up Nic Berg on that thread I thought I'd post these here<br><br>CBS: Bizarre New Link in Berg Murder (Berg and Moussaoui)<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=553244">www.democraticunderground..._id=553244</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>The victim: More than work drew him to Iraq<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=551848">www.democraticunderground..._id=551848</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Beheaded hostage 'had been warned to leave Iraq'<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=549507">www.democraticunderground..._id=549507</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>FBI Saw Berg Before Beheading<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=550573">www.democraticunderground..._id=550573</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Body found on Baghdad overpass identified as that of American<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=547236">www.democraticunderground..._id=547236</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Berg worked at night on a Abu Ghraib tower<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=550780">www.democraticunderground..._id=550780</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Bush Condemns Execution of Berg in Iraq<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=550095">www.democraticunderground..._id=550095</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Spokesman Says Berg Never Held by Forces<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=549641">www.democraticunderground..._id=549641</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Executioner wore gold ring - forbidden by Islam<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=553663">www.democraticunderground..._id=553663</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Bush: Berg's killers must be found <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=557156">www.democraticunderground..._id=557156</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Filmmaker Moore Says He Has Berg Footage (an interview with Berg)<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=586789">www.democraticunderground..._id=586789</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Jayna Davis Dissects Berg-Moussaoui Links <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=565168">www.democraticunderground..._id=565168</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Berg beheading: No way, say more medical experts<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=571473">www.democraticunderground..._id=571473</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>BERG MET WITH SHADY IRAQI (Berg's business partner was a Chalabi wannabe<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=560487">www.democraticunderground..._id=560487</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Loftus: London bombing mastermind is MI6 agent

Postby dbeach » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:45 pm

funny how the so-called 'doulblew agents' tend to "blow back" against the good ole USA or in tis case the good ole Greta britain<br><br><br><br>The Us hstory of this wold include Ho <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Loftus: London bombing mastermind is MI6 agent

Postby dbeach » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:55 pm

the history of double agents or blow backs could include chariman mao,ho chi mein,idi amin,castro,sadam,noriaga,<br>and of course the most famous blow back in history and the one who has literally changed the world into a prison planet OSAMA beenin London or as I prefer to call him <br>Waldo bin bush..<br><br><br>{you can debate me on some of these and add some more but one does not simply leave these controllers.. its just another assignment is more accurate..}<br><br>WHAT a list of OSS and CIA asets.<br><br>correct me if I am wrong BUT if one joins a gangster organization like the CIA.. one does not suddenly decide to retire or quit or form new organizations without company approval..Ever heard of a former mafia chiefiatan ??<br> NO cuz its a lifetime gig!! <p></p><i></i>
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People v The Crown

Postby antiaristo » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:39 am

From today's Observer<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Anger over 'shoot to kill' policy grows<br><br>Gaby Hinsliff, political editor<br>Sunday July 31, 2005<br><br>Observer<br><br>Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, faced calls yesterday for an urgent review of the 'shoot-to-kill' policy against suicide bombers as MPs demanded the public be consulted.<br>Sir Bill Morris, the former transport union leader who chaired a pioneering inquiry into disciplinary measures in the Metropolitan Police, led the calls for a public debate. He said citizens should be consulted about such a 'gigantic and fundamental' step taken in their name. His call was backed by opposition politicians.<br><br>It emerged yesterday that the Met's guidelines for confronting bombers allow armed police, in some cases, to fire a 'critical headshot' without even challenging the individual to stop, if it is feared an explosion is imminent. Until now, it has been assumed that suspects would be given a chance to surrender.<br><br>Gareth Peirce, solicitor for the family of Jean Charles de Menezes - the innocent man shot dead after being mistaken for a suicide bomber - called for Clarke to disclose all details of the policy rather than wait for the official inquiry into her client's death. 'We need the facts in the case now. It's an emergency situation,' she said.<br><br>The new tactics were actually disclosed a week after the 7 July bombings, but the full implications did not become apparent until de Menezes was shot on 22 July. The Met has still not published the full guidelines.<br><br>Home Office ministers have repeatedly insisted that the 'shoot-to-kill' policy is an operational matter for the police that does not require political approval. However, opposition MPs said it could no longer hide behind operational constraints.<br><br>'The new terrorist threat requires new responses,' said Jeremy Browne, a Liberal Democrat member of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee. 'But an operational policy decision as fundamental as shoot to kill poses wider questions about the power of the state, and should be subject to proper political scrutiny and approval.'<br><br>Morris said while these tactics might be necessary in some exceptional circumstances, the police needed public support. 'If that is being done in our name, then it seems to me that there needs to be a debate, and political ownership of that has got to go to the elected authority,' he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. 'Operational matters spring from policy, and this is clearly a significant change in policy. When we as a nation decided that we wanted to end capital punishment, we didn't have chief police officers meeting and taking the decision.' But the former Home Office Minister John Denham warned there could be more complicated factors involved than just the police guidelines.<br><br>'When I was policing minister, I had the then Police Complaints Authority carry out an assessment of 20 police shootings in which I think the vast majority were of innocent or harmless people, none of which was under the current guidance,' he said.<br><br>'The issues turned out to be around training, the handling of information, assessment of intelligence. It would be quite surprising if the same issues don't arise in this case.'<br><br>He said it was possible the select committee would investigate the approach to suicide bombers, but only once the Independent Police Complaints Commission - which is now investigating the de Menezes shooting - has established the full facts.<br><br>Hazel Blears, the policing minister, told the Today programme it was 'right and proper' that there were new tactics for a new threat, adding: 'These are operational matters for the police service about how these decisions are made.'<br><br>The new guidance for the campaign against suicide bombers, known as Operation Kratos, was produced after consultation with Israeli security experts.<br><br>Officers are advised to shoot at the suspect's head rather than the chest to disable him instantly to avoid detonating explosives strapped to the body.<br><br>West Midlands police used a non-lethal Taser stun gun to subdue one of the bombing suspects captured last week. However Sir Ian Blair, the Met Police Commissioner, has openly criticised such tactics, saying a Taser could actually set off a device.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br><br>A few comments.<br><br>* Bill Morris, apart from being an excellent union leader in the past, is a BLACK MAN.<br><br>* The Official Opposition, the Conservatives, have said NOTHING about all this.<br><br>* The two main parties are adopting the line that this is an operational, rather than policy matter. This is code for keeping it all secret.<br><br>* This is yet more evidence that Her Majesty is behind all this. She does not want Commoners dictating HER security arrangements (see comment above (7/30 2:59 pm). <p></p><i></i>
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