Qutb, don't duck this one (London Bombing)

by **slimmouse** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:21 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The people in charge of the operation aren't necessarily going to blow themselves up along with the bombers, though. The commanders, planners and bomb builders have specialized skills and training, and thus presumably have a higher value to their movement than do the ordinary bomb carriers. They'll be under orders to get out alive, and participate in future operations.<hr></blockquote> Sepka, are you truly reading this thread, or are you 'having a laugh here '?

by **Sepka** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:32 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Sepka, are you truly reading this thread, or are you 'having a laugh here '?<hr></blockquote> I'm certainly trying to follow the arguments. What do you think I'm missing? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>MI5 had secret tape recordings of Mohammad Sidique Khan, the gang leader, talking about how to build the device and then leave the country because there would be a lot of police activity. <hr></blockquote> What am I missing in this? He was a leader. He was supposed to get away. That in no way implies that the ordinary bombers weren't on a deliberate suicide mission. -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **slimmouse** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:44 pm

Sepka, Do a search on Haroon Rashid Aswat...........the so called mastermind of the London bombings if you want to go into this into a little more detail. Have a look at his background. Meanwhile, have a look at the CCTV footage of the London bombers, and ask yourself why they werent photographed in their individual carriages as they carried out their "mission". Meanwhile - No public enquiry. Strange huh ?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D"> Where was good old Rudy the Ghoul on the morning of 7/7 ? Dont hold your breath. What is Rudys job these days ? And finally, have a good search on a guy called Bruce Lait. And these days, I mean a GOOD search. Have a look at his testimony, as an eyewitness in one of the carriages that were apparently inhabited by one of the "suicide bombers".

by **Sepka** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:58 pm

I've no doubt at all that MI5 failed in their responsibilities and were probably compromised to boot, and that they'd like to deflect attention from that. Fortunately for the public reputations of those involved, their desire to avoid attention is nicely compatible with the government's desire to avoid publicly discussing exactly what holes are to be found in their security arrangements. Inquiries in wartime aren't going to be as public as those in peacetime, even if they're every bit as thorough (if not more so) behind the scenes. There's nothing that leads me to believe that the decision to shoot to kill was taken in bad faith, whether or not an innocent man was shot. When you know that you're facing a bombing campaign, and that there's a strong possibility that the enemy might use suicide bombers, you treat that seriously. The discussion was (I thought) about the validity of the shoot to kill order. IMHO it's better to chance killing one innocent person than to chance allowing a trainload of them to be blown up. -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **antiaristo** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:59 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The people in charge of the operation aren't necessarily going to blow themselves up along with the bombers, though. The commanders, planners and bomb builders have specialized skills and training, and thus presumably have a higher value to their movement than do the ordinary bomb carriers. They'll be under orders to get out alive, and participate in future operations. -Sepka the Space Weasel<hr></blockquote> Absolutely. You DO know about the "training exercise", I take it? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>What am I missing in this? He was a leader. He was supposed to get away. That in no way implies that the ordinary bombers weren't on a deliberate suicide mission.<hr></blockquote> I'm not sure what you're saying here. That Khan blew himself up by mistake?

by **antiaristo** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:07 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Inquiries in wartime aren't going to be as public as those in peacetime, even if they're every bit as thorough (if not more so) behind the scenes.<hr></blockquote> Huh????? <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Spies ‘hid’ bomber tape from MPs<hr></blockquote> That's the Intelligence and Security Committee. ALL deliberations are in secret. They report not to parliament, but to the prime minister. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The discussion was (I thought) about the validity of the shoot to kill order. IMHO it's better to chance killing one innocent person than to chance allowing a trainload of them to be blown up.<hr></blockquote> And that, of course, is exactly the response the exercise was designed to elicit. Which is why we were told... he was a suicide bomber who acted suspiciously. he was wearing a bulky overcoat, out of season he had wires coming out of his belt he vaulted the turnstile he ran onto the train, he looked like a hunted animal None of which was true. He was an ordinary Joe, on his way to work. He did nothing, NOTHING to raise any reasonable suspicion at all. Apart from being brown. But his card was marked that day. That was the day the precedent was to be set. The SAS boys were down from Hereford for a hunt. And he was the ritual sacrifice. I say all this because the truth leaked out on ITV. Had that not happened, then I suppose we would all have to live with your own analysis of what took place. The official line. We'd have to live with their fait accomplit. The false dichotomy. But it did leak out. And their fait accomplit was fucked.

by **slimmouse** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:16 pm

Sepka ... Its a coincidence that the Ghoul who happened to be in NYC on the morning of 9/11 also happens to be in London on the morning of 7/7 ? Its a coincidence that in the case of OKC, 9/11, and 7/7 , that the "good guys", or the authorities, just happened to be conducting terror response drills ? How exactly do such mathematically impossible coincidences happen, when combined with a system designed to control the 'useless eaters' thru fear ? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> I can only hope that your educated guess is as good as mine.

by **Qutb** » Thu May 18, 2006 6:59 am

"Its a coincidence that the Ghoul who happened to be in NYC on the morning of 9/11 also happens to be in London on the morning of 7/7 ?" It's not exactly a coincidence that he "happened to be" in New York on Septemeber 11 2001, as he was the mayor of the city at the time... as for being in London, do simple coincidences like that never happen in your world? That would be odd indeed, because they happen all the time in mine. I can't for the best of me see anything suspicious in his mere presence in the city, absent any evidence that he was involved in either attack. "Its a coincidence that in the case of OKC, 9/11, and 7/7 , that the "good guys", or the authorities, just happened to be conducting terror response drills ?" "Authorities" weren't conducting terror drills on 7/7. It was a private drill conducted by an investment bank (or some similar enterprise) and it wasn't a "live" drill. The whole thing consisted of a small group of people sitting around a desk! I'm at loss to see how this could possibly have facilitated or enabled the attacks in any way. Curiously, the actual nature of this "terror drill" is rarely mentioned by those who tout it as evidence of a vast MI5-Illuminati conspiracy behind 7/7. I don't know about OKC, never researched it much. On 9/11 there were several (I think biannual) NORAD/Air Force drills going on, which is a lot more interesting in my opinion. Though I don't see how any conclusion can be drawn from that fact alone.

by **slimmouse** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:17 am

It may well be of use for anyone interested to have a look at Rudys company formed in January 2002. Peter power (of visor consultants fame ) wouldnt name the company he was liaising with on the morning of those terror drills. ( BTW - I find it extraordinary that anyone cant see beyond a simple " coincidence" of terror drills taking place at precisely the same 3 - out of 373 - tube stations as the attacks ) Im going to take a wild stab here <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> - <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Being prepared requires constant vigilance and foresight. Preparedness applies not only to the effective execution of operations, but also to the assurance that operations continue smoothly through any type of event. Organizations face an ever-changing series of threats to their future. That is why it is essential to identify existing threats quickly and review the processes and procedures in place to combat those threats. Careful preparation for every event that can be anticipated enhances preparation for the unanticipated. The public and private sectors face a multitude of risks and challenges stemming from terrorism, crime, natural disasters, market performance, and countless other factors that threaten an organization’s ability to survive. Governments are already taking steps to protect civilians and businesses from the effects of a variety of threats. The private sector can do more to prepare to secure its personnel, assets, and future. Relentless preparation develops a culture of responsibility and awareness.<hr></blockquote> This sounds like this division of Guiliani operations; <blockquote>Quote:<hr>March 22, 2005 - New York, NY. Rudolph W. Giuliani, Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of the management consulting firm Giuliani Partners LLC, today announced that Pasquale J. D'Amuro, Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI's New York office will become Chief Executive Officer of Giuliani Security and Safety LLC, effective April 1, 2005. Giuliani Security & Safety is a division of Giuliani Partners dedicated to security consulting.<hr></blockquote> Well, I guess there has to be an 'honest buck' involved in blowing people up too.

by **Sepka** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:51 am

Qutb has already said pretty much what I would have WRT Giuliani and the 'terror drills'. As to what I think actually happened in the case of the subway shooting: The officers were on edge from the bombings, and had shoot to kill orders. De Menezes may have done something that appeared suspicious,or perhaps they were just completely overwrought. Regardless, when De Menezes was tackled, unless he landed in such a way that both hands were visible to the gun officer so that it could be instantly seen that he didn't have a detonator, he was pretty much a dead man. The police aren't going to say that, of course, which is why we have the cover stories. The public has been raised on this expectation that a policeman can always collar his man safely, while giving the suspect every benefit of the doubt. In the real world, when the officers believe that not only their own lives but also those of a train full of innocent bystanders are in imminent peril, that's not how it works. That's a bit too remorseless and unflinching for popular tastes, though, so we hear instead stories about De Menezes fleeing, etc. So far as why Khan got blown up, I haven't a clue. Perhaps the plans changed. Perhaps he was betrayed. Perhaps it was an accident. In the end, doesn't matter. His planning to escape is consistent with his position as leader of the group. It doesn't mean that his subordinates weren't meant to die. The evidence was such as to give at least a strong possibility of suicide bombers, even if it could be explained in another fashion. The police have to react accordingly, and take measures to counteract the worst case scenario, until it can be proven that something less dangerous in happening. -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **antiaristo** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:58 am

slim, You won't gey anywhere by appealing to reason. That's why I chose to focus on the tape. He wasn't a suicide bomber, so they concealed the tape. Because the whole narrative is SUICIDE. And SUICIDE is what justifies Kratos. The other factor is the explosive. Always the explosive. It was military explosive. Sarkozy suggested it came from the Balkans. It bent metal, just like Madrid. It was high velocity. Remember the bus, with the whole back end blown off? Well, they mixed it in the bathtub. They carried it in their rucksacks. It cost a couple of hundred dollars. Which makes me wonder why anybody bothers with nitrate mixes weighing half a ton. And why the security on legitimate explosives is so comprehensive. Indeed it makes me wonder how explosives manufacture can possibly be profitable. When amateurs can do such a good job with a bathtub. After all, only two things matter with explosive. The power of the detonation. And the stability of the material. Eat your heart out, Alfred Nobel.

by **antiaristo** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:19 am

Sepka, You don’t seem to be very knowledgeable about what happened to de Menezes. He was sitting down, waiting for the train to depart. Suddenly the cops appeared. He stood. One cop grabbed him, pushed him back into his seat, and pinned both arms to his side. He did not resist. Another cop appeared. He put his gun next to the first cop’s head, aiming at de Menezes. He fired eleven times at point blank range. Cool, calm and deliberate. One bullet every three seconds. You know. BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three BANG Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three How you get from there to your last post is completely beyond me. Same as how you can dismiss the Khan tape <blockquote>Quote:<hr>In the end, doesn't matter.<hr></blockquote> Really?

by **dbeach** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:46 am

LIL REMINDER of REPOST dbeach Registered Member Posts: 138 (7/16/05 8:27 pm) Reply | Edit 7/7/05 Web of Deceit:Peter Power, Terror Drill,Giulianni,CIA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adolph ghoulianni was knighted by her nibs for his service to his queen elizardbeth after 9/11 I would say he will get another award for same.. The USA is a nazi occupied nation and is owned by euro/american royalty and their corporat controllers prisonplanet.com/Pages/Ju...eceit.html London Bombings - Web of Deceit: Peter Power, The Terror Drill, Giuliani and The CIA Steve Watson | July 16 2005 As we revealed last week, on the very morning of the Bombings, a consultancy agency with government and police connections was running an exercise for an unnamed company that revolved around the London Underground being bombed at the exact same times and locations. On a BBC Radio 5 interview that aired on the evening of the 7th, the host interviewed Peter Power, a former Scotland Yard official, working at one time with the Anti Terrorist Branch, now Managing Director of Visor Consultants, which bills itself as a 'crisis management' advice company. Power was quoted as saying "At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now" Sheirer was intimately involved along with Guiliani in the "crisis management" on 9/11. Giuliani himself was in London on 7th July after traveling down from Yorkshire from a speaking engagement at the Local Government Association conference in Harrogate, where he received a standing ovation for praising Tony Blair and hyping the war on terror. Giuliani was also coincidentally only "yards from Liverpool Street station when the bombs went off." and later that day went on several TV networks saying that the crisis management teams (Peter Power's team, or so he would have us believe) seemed like they were expecting the bombing to take place. Giuliani has met several times with government and police officials in London since 9/11. CIA connections The Establishment have their mits all over this latest staged attrocity, you can carry on probing deeper into the rabbit hole and you always come across the same elite figures and organizations, hiding in every darkened nook and cranny Qutb Registered Member Posts: 78 (7/16/05 8:40 pm) Reply Connection Kiley-Giuliani -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's nothing short of damn interesting. Is that a friggin' coincidence? Three queastions have not been answered: 1. What was Giuliani doing in London? 2. Which company hired Visor Consultants for a terror drill that morning? 3. What's the "wider project" which is "classified", of which the terror drill was a only one part? We should all follow this closely and post what we find about it here... dbeach Registered Member Posts: 139 (7/16/05 9:41 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Connection Kiley-Giuliani -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- adolph ghouliani [check my mispelling] is what I call the after- burner man..not to confused with the set-up man..Adolph is summoned after the crime to fool the masses he also owns the anthrax clean-up company which he purchased after the the Boca Raton death which was the first death from anthrax after 9/11. So if the masters keep to repeat patterns then britain will get some deadly disease or germ like anthrax following the 7/07/05 attacks.?? side issue is the boca raton agency was smut peddlers which could be used for blackmail. blackmail ,extortion,murder, assasinations,drug sales..keep the controllers going and most is NEVER even discovered by the citizens.. binndare Registered Member Posts: 4 (7/17/05 4:31 pm) Reply Re: 7/7/05 Web of Deceit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do we have any independent confirmation that the tube bombs were simultaneous? This is how the original timeline was reported: 8.49am (GMT): An incident on the train line between Liverpool Street and Aldgate is reported to British Transport Police. 9.15am: Media reports emergency services called to London's Liverpool Street station after an explosion. 9.24am: Police say the incident was possibly caused by a collision between two trains, a power cut or a power cable exploding. Police report "walking wounded". 9.33am: Passengers told that all underground train services are being suspended because of a power fault across the network. 9.33am: Reports of another incident at Edgware Road station. 9.40am: Police say power surge incidents have occurred on Aldgate, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Old Street and Russell Square stations. 10.02am: Scotland Yard says it is dealing with a "major incident". 10.09am: Witness Christina Lawrence, who was on a train leaving King's Cross, tells BBC: "There was a loud bang in the tunnel and the train just stopped and all of a sudden it was filled with black, gassy smoke and we couldn't breathe." 10.14am: A witness says that a bus has been ripped apart in an explosion in central London. 10.21am: Scotland Yard reports "multiple explosions". 10.23am: Police confirm an explosion on a bus in Tavistock Place. 10.25am: The BBC's Andrew Marr, with Prime Minister Tony Blair in Scotland, says the PM is "still unsure" whether the explosions are a terrorist attack. 10.53am: Home Secretary Charles Clarke makes a statement outside Downing Street about "dreadful incidents" causing "terrible injuries". He says Mr Blair has been informed and advises the public not to make unnecessary journeys. 11.18am: London's Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair tells the BBC he knows of "about six explosions", one on a bus and the others at train stations. dbeach Registered Member Posts: 163 (7/17/05 4:35 pm) Reply | Edit Re: 7/7/05 Web of Deceit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dunno AJ says the govt story is ever changin kinda like the New England wheather whether ghoulianni is in on the action or just some .... ???

by **Byrne** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:52 am

From <a href="http://cryptome.org/fco-muslims.htm" target="top">cryptome.org/fco-muslims.htm</a>, the following (leaked) document. Also referred to <a href="http://antagonise.blogspot.com/2006/02/islam-intelligence-and-infiltration.html" target="top">here </a>- (excellent article detailing British Security Services infiltration into Muslim 'communitities'): Confidential Letter, "Hearts and Minds and Muslims," from William Ehrman, Director-General (Defence & Intelligence), FCO, to Sir David Omand, Security & Intelligence Co-ordinator and Permanent Secretary, Cabinet Office, 23 April 2004, 2 pages. <a href="http://cryptome.org/fco-ehrman.pdf" target="top">cryptome.org/fco-ehrman.pdf</a> (681KB) Ehrman's letter contains the statement: "...the potential for information operations backfiring on us is even greater than during the Cold War...and greater damage could be done to the overall effort if links back to UK or US sources were revealed." This letter was written just after Operation Crevice (which reportedly <a href="http://www.ladlass.com/intel/archives/cat_nsa.html" target="top">stemmed</a> from an NSA/Fort Meade intercept into a communication from someone in the circle around Abu Musab al-Zarqawi!!!) had detained 7 people (for procuring 600kg of fertiliser), and around the time that (so Sarkozy revealed) Mohammed Siddique Khan was detained (& later released, free to travel to Pakistan, after being <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/25/khan.shtml" target="top">videoed</a>, footage of which must have come in useful later). These 7 have recently been on trial, all pinned under the evidence of shadowy character US Supergrass Mohammed Junaid Babar. I believe that the July 21st 'failed bombings' in London were to round up all those who may have known about the persons/details of the July 7th events & the planning thereof. (There are 13 or so people still detained & yet to face trial, under lock & key who are charged with 'withholding information' or being aware of the movements of the July 21st 'suspects' - VERY little is ever reported on these people). The De Menezes shooting subject (on July 22nd, I believe), just muddied the waters as to any public demand for investigation into the July 7th/21st events, as well as cranking up the fear quotient & serving other means, as Anti points out. They didn't plan for the Sarkozy or the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,1774680,00.html" target="top">ITV News producer Neil Garrett </a> leaks. Oh & Terror Drills & Guilianni being in town? NOT just a coincidence, I believe.

by **Sepka** » Thu May 18, 2006 9:17 am

I'll admit that I completely lost interest in the De Menezes incident, and quit reading news about it a few weeks after it happened. At the time I left off, the story was (even from his supporters) that he'd strolled calmly onto the train, and been tackled to the floor. Reading up on it on Wiki, it now appears that he ran to catch the train, and was in a seat when he was shot. In the end, what actual difference does that make? The police mistook him for a suicide bomber, and killed him. My guess about what actually transpired in detail was incorrect, but that doesn't change the basic dynamics of the situation. A seated suicide bomber is just as dangerous as any. Let's look at it a different way. You seem to feel that it wasn't a mistake, that he was deliberately targetted for assasination. Why? What possible advantage could accrue to the government from killing this man? -Sepka the Space Weasel

Qutb, don't duck this one (London Bombing)

In which case.........

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Sepka ....

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Re: The Purpose

Re: Qutb, don't duck this one (London Bombing)

And the Ghoul ?

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It might be useful for anyone interested......

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Re: It might be useful for anyone interested......

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