More evidence that 7/7 London Bombing was a PsyOp

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More evidence that 7/7 London Bombing was a PsyOp

Postby isachar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:37 pm

Yet another smoking gun. Of course one could find an entire arsenal of evidence (like say an ongoing terrorist bombing exercise on the very day in the very stations that were bombed), but that would still not dissuade the MSM and others from dismissing it as 'just a conspiracy theory'.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2242598,00.html">www.timesonline.co.uk/art...98,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <br>It just gets phonier and phonier. It's all soooo phony... <br> <br> <br>The Sunday Times June 25, 2006 <br><br>Police tracking bug found in 7/7 mastermind’s car<br>David Leppard<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br>AN electronic tracking device of the type used by police to monitor suspected terrorists was recovered from a car belonging to the leader of the London suicide bombers in the days following July 7, a senior security official has claimed. <br><br>The device is thought to have been placed inside Mohammad Sidique Khan’s car by Special Branch officers in a surveillance operation aimed at Islamic extremists in West Yorkshire. <br><br>The suggestion that police were monitoring Khan before the 7/7 attacks will fuel claims that the authorities may have missed intelligence that could have foiled the terrorists. <br><br>::MMPU::MI5 has already been criticised by victims’ relatives and opposition MPs for allegedly failing to act on clues about Khan’s activities before the attacks, in which 52 people and the four bombers died. <br><br>With the first anniversary of the bombings next week, the claim has reignited calls for a full public inquiry into what the security services and the police knew about the terrorists before the attacks. <br><br>Yesterday Martin Gilbertson, a computer expert who had worked in an Islamic bookshop with the bombers, claimed that he had tipped off police in Holbeck, West Yorkshire, about “suspicious activities” by Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, another of the July 7 bombers. <br><br>Gilbertson told The Guardian that in October 2003 — almost two years before the attacks — he had posted a package of incriminating material to West Yorkshire police headquarters and asked anti-terrorism officers to contact him. He said it showed that Khan and Tanweer were linked to extremist “holy war” websites. However, Gilbertson said he had received no response. <br><br>After the July 7 attacks, Khan was identified by a credit card and other items found near his body within two days of the blasts. A silver Honda Accord was later removed from his home in Dewsbury, near Leeds. <br><br>Asked yesterday to respond to the claims that a tracking device had been in Khan’s car, a spokesman for West Yorkshire police said it was a matter for the Metropolitan police, which is leading the inquiry into the bombings. <br><br>The Met said yesterday that it had a policy of never commenting on questions about whether there was any intelligence or surveillance on any of the bombers before July 7. <br><br>Yesterday a government official said he was unaware of the police device. He insisted that there had been no attempt to cover up the truth about any potential intelligence failings. <br><br>However, Patrick Mercer, the Tory spokesman on homeland security, said: “If this is true, it is yet another indication that the authorities suspected that Khan was up to his neck in terrorist activity. This underlies why we need an independent inquiry.” <br><br>On Friday, West Yorkshire police said they did not have any records to show whether they had received a tip-off from Gilbertson; whether, if it had been received, it had been discounted, “or whether it was acted upon in some way”. <br><br>Yesterday the force revised its statement, saying: “Whenever we receive information that could potentially be intelligence on crime or terrorism matters, this information is carefully considered and analysed.” <br><br>A report by the parliamentary intelligence and security committee revealed Khan had come to the attention of MI5 in the two years before July 7. <br> <br> Copyright 2006 Times Newspapers Ltd.<br>This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions . Please read our Privacy Policy . To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from The Times, visit the Syndication website . <br><br><br>see also: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4896.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...4896.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=isachar>isachar</A> at: 6/26/06 10:38 am<br></i>
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Re: More evidence that 7/7 London Bombing was a PsyOp

Postby StarmanSkye » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:16 pm

This review of 'The London Bombings' by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, which purports to be an inquiry into the London bombings, traces some of the more noteable and problematic available public record, reports and conjecture, and as such contains some good information --but perhaps more importantly, other than providing the service of an oversight review, it examines the kind of weak evidence, flimsy testimony and contradictory information provided by official and anonymous & unnamed sources that help to confound what CAN be reliably known about the attacks, the police shooting of Menezes, the failed attacks, and sundry speculations -- lending support for a degree of evident psyop involvement.<br><br>One particular fact I didn't know: <br>"... the police have, instead of adapting or abandoning these (Operation Kratos) procedures, actually widened them so that they may now shoot-to-kill in the case of stalking or domestic violence."<br><br>WoW -- That's a helluva crock of seriously foul doo-doo.<br><br>Also, in this regard, the author contends that officers in the field were being manipulated by higher-ups -- towards the 'given' end, a rude display of deadly force by UK police elites? (Reminds me of antiaristo's thesis that this was linked to the Queen's absolute prerogative).<br><br>--quote--<br>" ... the threat-perceptions of officers on the ground were manipulated by senior officials for reasons that so far remain difficult to fathom". Menezes was "a marked man", but we don't know why. This portentous speculation, which substitutes for evidence or even discernible logic, is one of the most irritating aspects of the book." <br><br>Some good stuff here.<br>Starman<br>******<br>Sunday, June 25, 2006 <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://leninology.blogspot.com/">leninology.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br><br>"The London Bombings": an independent review. <br>Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, <br><br><br>--quote--<br>Well. I have been offered to preview books about five times now, and I generally don't respond since I am not in the business of doing publishers' work for them. However, when the book in question is what promises to be an inquiry into the London bombings by reputed author Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, I'll suspend my puritanical disdain. For, whatever else might be said, the case for an independent inquiry into what happened on 7/7 is overwhelming. Ahmed has been positively reviewed by Pilger, Vidal and others, and his new book has been reasonably well received in The Times (albeit tagged as a 'conspiracy theory' and lumped in with some reactionary drivel by Melanie Phillips). The book has a number of themes: inconsistencies and downright falsehoods in various police and government narratives of 7/7; British intelligence involvement with radical Islamist groups; the consequences of this strategy as 'blowback'; the consequences of this relationship for proper investigation into what happened. As the news broke, some people may have remembered as I did the New Statesman article indicating that British intelligence allowed radical Islamist groups to operate in the UK since under such a covenant they wouldn't attack the UK. Fox News made use of this sort of claim to suggest that MI6 was appeasing terrorism. Ahmed may, then, provide a useful counter to this sort of reactionary wheedle. <br><br>'Al Qaeda' or Amateurs? <br><br>Does he? In the first instance, I want to summarise the opening part of his book. He cites various sources (which, upon checking, seem reliable) to suggest that the initial opinion of police, intelligence and bomb experts was that this was an attack using military expertise and explosives, including C4 shipped in from the Balkans. He then charts an apparently very sudden shift to saying that the attacks were really a home-made, amateurish business involving TATP. Problems? Well, TATP isn't a thermochemical explosive - rather it releases sudden, large amounts of gas that should not leave people with internal and external burns or leave charred emains, as details from bombing scenes and eyewitness accounts suggest there were. On the other hand, TATP can be used alongside C4, which is how Richard Reid <br>intended to blow up an aircraft. Part of the reason for asserting that TATP was the substance used was the apparent discovery of the stuff in a bath in Leeds - the person who rented the house was famously arrested in Egypt, but quietly released after three weeks. Ahmed says that the person was not interviewed by Scotland Yard detectives (citing a Daily Mail interview with the man), and he was certainly never identified by police as a suspect. The veracity of the claim that TATP was the substance discovered hasn't been confirmed as yet. Similarly, there has been considerable vagueness in media reports about the alleged discovery of bombs or bomb-making equipment and whether this was found in Lindsay's red Fiat or in Tanweer's hired Nissan Micra. <br><br>Ahmed also details the claims made about the bombers' movements. There are some notorious inaccuracies and discrepancies in various accounts here. Police appear to have released contradictory evidence about the train the men boarded (07:40 or 07:4<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . The official Home Office narrative says the men were on a train that left at 07:40, while CCTV footage appears to show them arriving at Kings Cross at 08:26. Problem is, the 07:40 was cancelled, and the 07:48 left late and arrived at 08:42. Plausibly, they got on the 07:24, which left a minute late and arrived at 08:23. (As Rachel North points out, this is not the only inaccuracy in the narrative). The narrow point is that the information given to us is unreliable and often false, while the wider point is that the movements of the bombers suggests some involvement in 'terrorist networks' connected to 'Al Qaeda'. Ahmed fluffs up a little here by suggesting the the atrocities committed in Spain were by 'Al Qaeda' - in fact, they appear to have been conducted by an autonomous Moroccan group with some connections to Spanish intelligence.<br><br>--snip--<br>(more ... ) <p></p><i></i>
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Re: These guys were drug mules.

Postby slimmouse » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:31 pm

<br><br> I say they were drug mule patsies. MI6 agents as opposed to officers. ( officers are on the payroll, agents arent )<br><br> Only my own best guess.<br> <br> But of course, Im just a conspiracy theorist <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> As for the Bombs....Bruce Lait said it. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bombs were planted under the train. Does Nafeez recite his testimony ?<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide">www.cambridge-news.co.uk/...egion_wide</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf <p></p><i></i>
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Re: More evidence that 7/7 London Bombing was a PsyOp

Postby jc » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:31 pm

re this:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"... the police have, instead of adapting or abandoning these (Operation Kratos) procedures, actually widened them so that they may now shoot-to-kill in the case of stalking or domestic violence."<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>seem to remember anti aristo saying this wld happen. where is he, now, when we need him? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: More evidence that 7/7 London Bombing was a PsyOp

Postby isachar » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:07 am

jc, yes Anti and others in the RI community were onto this very early.<br><br>911, Anthrax attacks, WMD and all that followed were an elaborate psy-ops by the Bush/Cheney Rumsfeld/Feith/Perle/Wolfie/Kissinger neo-con fascist squad aimed against (a) the American people, (b) the MSM, and any free-thinking politicos or generals, (c) the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, (d) the British people, (e) rulers of various muslim countries that sit on top of lots of oil, and , (f) anyone else who gets in their way.<br><br>Anti gave lots of insight into how such an abomination can occur. Let's hope he is well and will return.<br><br>More on the psy-ops nature of this on a new thread. <p></p><i></i>
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debunking conspiracy?

Postby friend catcher » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:26 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/attack...94,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Strange Guardian article on bombings. Skims the surface but doesn't get it's feet wet <p></p><i></i>
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Re: debunking conspiracy?

Postby Byrne » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:08 am

The website that is referred to in the Guardian article is here:<br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://julyseventh.co.uk/index.html" target="top">julyseventh.co.uk/index.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->. There is also an associated blog here <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://j7truth.blogspot.com/" target="top">j7truth.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->.<br><br>A good place to start is at the article <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-the-gaps-part-1.html" target="top">Mind the Gaps - Part 1</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> -Documenting the catalogue of inconsistencies in the story so far.<br><br>A great deal of the inconsistencies and anomalies had been raised and discussed, albeit on 'Internet forums' (where else is there? - the media won't touch such discussions), since July 05. The publishing of the Official Narrative on 11th May 06 did nothing to answer such questions, in fact it raised more inconsitencies.<br><br>Officially we are told that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>4 suicide bombers</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> undertook the bombings on 7th July 2005. Like the passport on 911, ID 'carried by the bombers was 'discovered at the locations, leading the police to quickly identify the '4 suicide bombers'.<br><br>I think I an correct in stating that no other persons have been officially held or charged with the events linked to July 7th explosions. There was a flurry over a University lecturer in Leeds, who, after 7/7, made a trip to Cairo & was arrested there, but later released & not charged in the UK. <br><br><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>7th July 2005</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--><br>'4 suicide bombers' - case closed.<br><br><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>21st July 2005</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--><br>'4 bombs all failed to detonate', <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>43</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> people now detained & held, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>17</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.met.police.uk/vivace/court.htm" target="top">scheduled</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> for trial.<br><br>& of course, the De Menezes affair (22nd July 2005) muddies the waters, providing useful diversions etc.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>& where <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>is</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Anti??</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=byrne@rigorousintuition>Byrne</A> at: 6/27/06 3:10 am<br></i>
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Re: More evidence that 7/7 London Bombing was a PsyOp

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:57 am

Weird how all the initial reports made a 180 degree about face a few days later ...<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1690391,00.html">www.timesonline.co.uk/art...91,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>“The nature of the explosives appears to be military, which is very worrying,” said Superintendent Christophe Chaboud, the chief of the French anti-terrorist police, who was in London to help Scotland Yard.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050713/REPOSITORY/507130364/1037/NEWS04">www.concordmonitor.com/ap...037/NEWS04</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Many questions remained following yesterday's disclosures. Police had originally reported that explosives in backpacks had been placed on the floor near train doors, suggesting that the people who put them there had intended to escape and not commit suicide.<br><br>The police also gave no explanation for where the suspects had obtained the high explosives - 10 pounds in each of the backpacks -that they reportedly used. And they did not explain whether the bombers had used timing devices or set off the explosives by hand.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/07/12/news/london.php">www.iht.com/bin/print_ipu...london.php</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>On Monday, a senior European-based counterterrorism official with access to intelligence reports said the new information on the explosives material indicated that the bombs were "technically advanced."<br><br>The official added: "There seems to be a mastery of the method of doing explosions. This was not rudimentary. It required great organization and was well put together."<br><br>On Saturday, Andy Hayman, who is in charge of Scotland Yard's antiterrorism unit, announced that the four bombs set off in London each contained less than 4.5 kilograms of explosive material. Hayman said investigators had determined by the shape of the twisted metal that the bombs had most likely been placed on the floor of the trains, near doorways. He said it was unclear whether the bomb on the bus was on the floor or on a seat.<br><br>British investigators believe the London bombs were equipped with timers, but they have not determined if the bombs were set off by synchronized alarms on cellphones or some other timing device, officials said.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf">www.cambridge-news.co.uk/...6926f9.lpf</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.officialconfusion.com/Audio/honigbaum7705.mp3">www.officialconfusion.com...um7705.mp3</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>“What seems to have happened is that sometime around 9:30 this morning, passengers in the train travelling from Edgeware road to Paddington had just left Edgeware Road station when suddenly they felt… they had a massive explosion and some passengers described how the tiles… the covers on the floor of the train suddenly flew up... rose up and the next thing they know there was another almighty crash which they now believe was a train travelling in the opposite direction hitting their train, which had been derailed by this explosion.” <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=stickdog99>stickdog99</A> at: 6/27/06 7:09 am<br></i>
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guardian debunk 7/7 conspiracy

Postby jc » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:47 am

on edit: ooops, sorry. someone already linked it.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Seeing isn't believing</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>A year on from 7/7, wild rumours are circulating about who planted the bombs and why. Some people even claim this picture of the four bombers was faked. Mark Honigsbaum, who accidentally triggered at least one of the conspiracy theories, investigates <br><br>Tuesday June 27, 2006<br>The Guardian <br><br>On July 10 last year, Bridget Dunne opened the Sunday newspapers eager for information about the blasts that had brought death and mayhem to London three days earlier. Like many people that weekend, Dunne was confused by the conflicting reports surrounding what had initially been described as a series of "power surges" on the tube. Why were the Metropolitan Police saying that these surges, which were now being attributed to bombs, had occurred simultaneously at 8.50am, when they had originally been described as taking place over the space of 26 minutes?<br><br>Dunne, a 51-year-old foster carer, was also having trouble squaring the Met's statement on July 8 that there was "no evidence to suggest that the attacks were the result of suicide bombings" with the growing speculation that Islamic suicide bombers and al-Qaida were to blame for the blasts that had hit the London underground and a bus in Tavistock Square. The Met Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, had talked himself of "these people who oppose our way of life".<br><br>"I'm not a conspiracy theorist," insists Dunne. "I was just trying to make a cohesive, coherent story from the facts."<br><br>But while the papers that Sunday were full of interviews with people who had survived the bombs, and there was plenty of speculation about Osama bin Laden's involvement, Dunne could find nothing about the times of the tube trains in and out of King's Cross on the morning of July 7.<br><br>When, a few days later, police released the now famous CCTV image of Shehzad Tanweer, Mohammad Sidique Khan, Jermaine Lindsay and Hasib Hussain entering Luton station, her suspicions deepened. How had police identified the bombers so quickly? And how was it that amid the carnage of twisted metal and bloody body parts they had been able to recover credit cards and other ID placing the men at the scene of the crime?<br><br>Suspecting something was not right, Dunne, who lives in Camden, north London, wrote to her local paper. "Do you think we are being told the truth over these bombings?" she asked. "There are so many unanswered questions that just don't make any sense."<br><br>Dunne's letter was immediately picked up by a blogger called Blaugustine and within days she found herself the recipient, via the internet, of other intriguing snippets, such as the claim that on the morning of 7/7 a former Scotland Yard anti-terrorism branch official had been staging a training exercise based on bombs going off simultaneously at precisely the stations that had been targeted. Convinced more than ever that something was not right, Dunne decided to share her thoughts with her new friends on the internet.<br><br>"I have only one reason for starting this blog," she wrote last August. "It is to ascertain the facts behind the events in London on and since the July 7 2005 ... That the times of trains were totally absent from the public domain was one of the factors which led to my suspicions that what we were being told happened was not what actually happened."<br><br>It was a few days after the blasts that I first became aware of the disconnect between what most people believe and accept happened on 7/7 - that four British-born Muslim men decided, of their own volition and for reasons that we may never fully understand, to detonate a series of suicide bombs on the London underground - and what people like Dunne suspect happened.<br><br>Like many Londoners, I never reached my office on the morning of July 7 but arrived at the tube at 9.30am to find it already closed. Dispatched by the Guardian's newsdesk directly to Edgware Road, I arrived just as passengers from the bombed westbound Circle line train were emerging from the temporary triage centre that had been set up in Marks & Spencer by a former firefighter, Paul Dadge.<br><br>As with other major London crime scenes - the Israeli embassy bombing in Kensington, the Paddington rail crash, the Brixton nail bombing - the situation was one of confusion and flux. The police had only just begun to cordon off the station, while the fire brigade was attributing the incident to a power surge, even though it was already obvious to all but the greenest commuter that three simultaneous incidents on the tube made little sense even by London underground's woeful performance standards.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>I asked passengers what they had seen and experienced and was told by two survivors from the bombed train that, at the moment of the blast, the covers on the floor of their carriage had flown up - the phrase they used was "raised up". </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->There was no time to check their statements as moments later the police widened the cordon and I was directed to the opposite pavement, outside the Metropole hotel.<br><br>Moments later, Davinia Turrell, the famous "woman in the mask", emerged from M&S together with other injured passengers and I followed them into the hotel. It was from there that at around 11am I phoned a hurried, and what I now know to be flawed, audio report to the Guardian. In the report, broadcast on our website, I said that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>it "was believed" there had been an explosion "under the carriage of the train". I also said that "some passengers described how the tiles, the covers on the floors of the train, flew up, raised up".<br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>It later became clear from interviewing other passengers who had been closer to the seat of the explosion that the bomb had actually detonated inside the train, not under it, but my comments, disseminated over the internet where they could be replayed ad nauseam, were already taking on a life of their own.<br><br>"Did July 7 bombs explode under trains?" read a posting that referred to my report a few weeks later. "Eyewitness accounts appear to contradict the theory that suicide bombers were responsible for killing 39 [sic] passengers on London's tube network that day."<br><br>Another went even further: "How Black Ops staged the London bombings: Staged terror events - like magic tricks - rely on misdirection to throw people off the track ... The bombs on the underground were not in the tube carriages. They were under the floors of the carriages."<br><br>Soon, internet chatrooms and blog sites were buzzing with even more bizarre theories: the bombers thought they were delivering drugs but were deceived, set up and murdered; or they thought they were carrying dummy "bombs" designed to test London's defences; or the plot was monitored by any number of secret services, from M15 to the CIA to Mossad, who let it happen in order to foment anti-Muslim feeling. Then there are the claims by 9/11 conspiracy theorists that 7/7, like the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, were all part of a cunning scheme to further the pro-Iraq war agenda of the Bush/Blair governments and the "New World Order".<br><br>In the past week we have had two more claims. The first came in a book by US journalist Ron Suskind, alleging that Khan was considered so dangerous by the FBI that in 2003 the US placed him on a "no fly list" - a claim that was promptly rubbished by the FBI as a case of mistaken identity.<br><br>Then, on Saturday, this paper reported that a computer technician who helped to encrypt emails at an Islamic bookshop in Leeds where Khan and Tanweer used to hang out became so alarmed by their calls for jihad that in October 2003 he delivered a dossier to West Yorkshire anti-terrorist police. Martin Gilbertson's claims have not been denied. West Yorkshire police simply admitted it couldn't say whether or not his dossier had "made its way into the intelligence system".<br><br>Given such confusion, the proliferation of 7/7 conspiracy theories is hardly surprising. Ever since the Kennedy assassination, people's faith in the official narratives surrounding seismic political events has been steadily eroding. In their place have come what Don DeLillo, in Libra, his brilliant psychological novel about Kennedy's assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, calls "theories that gleam like jade idols". Such theories are seductive precisely because, as DeLillo puts it, they are "four-faced, graceful". Employing a 20/20 hindsight whose starting point is always cui bono - who benefits? - they masquerade as an interrogation of the facts but are actually a labyrinth of mirrors.<br><br>But whereas in 1988, when Libra was published, it took years for conspiracy theories to come together through the sluggish medium of print and telephone, today such networks can be created instantaneously with a few clicks of a mouse. [this is dangerous, apparently]<br><br>At first sight, Dunne appears as far removed from this paranoid ether-world as you could imagine. Ushering me into her flat, she says she would dearly love to "turn the clock back to before July 7, before I had all these questions" and, for a moment, I believe her.<br><br>"Before my letter was published in the Camden New Journal, I had little idea of how the internet or blogs worked," she tells me. "I was surprised to discover how many people shared my concerns."<br><br>Today, however, Dunne appears extremely internet savvy. She has invited a colleague to our meeting - a blogger with long dark hair who gives his name only as the Antagonist. From Dunne's blog you can link directly to the Antagonist and other bookmarked sites including that of the July 7 Truth Campaign.<br><br>At first glance this appears to be an objective guide to everything that happened on 7/7 and afterwards. But click a little deeper and it soon becomes apparent that the campaign, with its linked people's inquiry forum and petition calling for the release of "all the evidence" about 7/7, considers the official Home Office account, in which the blame is laid squarely on the four suicide bombers pictured entering Luton station, to be just a "story".<br><br>The first "hole" in the narrative is the Home Office's claim that on July 7 the quartet boarded a 7.40am Thameslink train to King's Cross. According to Dunne, when an independent researcher visited Luton and demanded a train schedule from Thameslink, he was told that the 7.40am had never run and that the next available train, the 7.48, had arrived at King's Cross at 8.42 - in other words too late for the bombers to have boarded the three tube trains that exploded, according to the official timings, eight minutes later at Aldgate, Edgware Road and Russell Square.<br><br>The next problem is the CCTV picture. If you look closely at the image, Dunne says, you will see that the railings behind Khan, the man in the white baseball cap, appear to run in front of his left arm while another rail appears to slice through his head. "It's just a theory but some people believe the image was faked in Photoshop," she tells me.<br><br>To Dunne's way of thinking, this theory is bolstered by the fact that police have never released the further CCTV footage showing the four emerging on to the concourse at King's Cross where, according to the home office narrative, they are seen hugging and appear "euphoric". Then there is the "fact" that in the only other CCTV sequence of the bombers taken on June 28 (the day police believe they made a test run to London), only three men - Khan, Tanweer and Lindsay - are seen entering Luton station. Hasib Hussain, who would detonate a rucksack bomb on the top deck of the No 30 bus, providing the only above-ground image of what Sir Ian Blair would later call "the largest criminal inquiry in English history", is nowhere to be seen.<br><br>"I know people who have spoken to Hasib Hussain's family," says Dunne. "He was in the middle of his college career. He was taking driving lessons. I don't have a conspiracy theory, but until I've seen all the evidence and can personally join the dots I can't say that he or any of these men were suicide bombers."<br><br>Dunne and the Antagonist aren't the only ones who would like to see all the evidence. Rachel North, who was travelling in the front carriage of the Piccadilly line train with Lindsay when he detonated his bomb deep beneath Russell Square, and who miraculously escaped with only minor injuries, has also called for an independent public inquiry.<br><br>But unlike Dunne she does not think there is any mystery about what happened. "We all know what happened," she says. "We were there. What we want to know is why it happened."<br><br>She says that conspiracy theorists have repeatedly twisted her words to make out there was no bomb on her train and even that she is a professional M15 disinformation agent. When she challenged these claims, she says she was subjected to vitriolic abuse. As a consequence, she refuses to have anything to do with the July 7 Truth Campaign or related sites, arguing that they risk undermining the legitimacy of survivors' calls for a public inquiry.<br><br>"I have had endless run-ins with these people," she says. "Some of them are fairly well intentioned, if eccentric, others hugely offensive. I worry that they are making all of us look like conspiracy theorists and/or traumatised people who shouldn't be taken seriously."<br><br>She argues that given that inquests have yet to be held, and the ongoing mass-murder inquiry, it is hardly surprising that the police have withheld evidence from the public domain. Quite apart from the distress that the release of CCTV images might cause relatives, North says she has been told there are people in the background of the King's Cross CCTV sequence whom police are still trying to trace.<br><br>Police have also kept back details of what the bombers were wearing in order to be sure that witness statements taken from people who may have seen them on the Thameslink train can be corroborated. "Train timetables rarely bear any relation to real life," says North dismissively. "Where conspiracy theorists go with this is that the train never ran, so the bombers were never on the train, or the bombers were lured to Luton and then taken away and killed and their body parts were placed on the tube later to incriminate Muslims. They just take these small anomalies, which is what you will get in any rolling, multi-sourced news investigation, and make it into evidence of a conspiracy."<br><br>North isn't the only person with first-hand experience of 7/7 whose testimony has been called into question. Paul Dadge, the "hero of Edgware Road" (it was his idea to set up the temporary triage centre in M&S), who was photographed leading Davinia Turrell from M&S to the Metropole hotel, has also been on the receiving end. On internet bulletin boards people have questioned why he is wearing blue surgical gloves in the picture (reproduced on the cover of G2) and wonder why Turrell, who is now 25, appears "so old" and where she got the mask from.<br><br>"Basically, people were saying the picture was made up by the government to forward the campaign against terrorism in Iraq," Dadge tells me when we meet near his office in west London.<br><br>Dadge never reached work on 7/7 but was forced to interrupt his journey at Baker Street. Travelling on a westbound Hammersmith & City line train just behind the bombed Circle line train, he left the station at 8.53am and began walking towards Paddington when he noticed the fire engines heading towards Edgware Road and decided to investigate. To this day, his abiding memory, like my own, is one of confusion and chaos. In his testimony to the London Assembly, Dadge told the inquiry team looking into the failings of the emergency response that he felt he had no choice but to take command of the situation as the police were clearly overstretched and it was "becoming difficult to establish who was passing public, and who was involved in the incident".<br><br>For the record, Dadge who works for the internet provider AOL and whose job there, ironically, involves monitoring discussion threads, says he was not part of any "black ops" but obtained the gloves from a paramedic in M&S. The same paramedics provided Turrell with the mask to protect her burns. Yet although Dadge, like North, has been a target for vitriol - some objected to his being described as a hero - he doesn't seem to mind.<br><br>"I don't read the conspiracy theories and get upset," he says. "I read them and I'm intrigued."<br><br>Indeed, it is natural after an event as cataclysmic and unexpected as 7/7 to want to interrogate what happened. But interrogation is not the same as understanding, and after a certain point you must move on.<br><br>As I leave Dunne's flat, she tells me that she and the Antagonist are in the process of refining the July 7 Truth Campaign site and are still uncovering new "facts". "I can't explain it but something shifted for me that day," she says.<br><br>When I get home, I decide to take a look. Under the heading Some Hypotheses is a list of alternative theories. Number one is "al-Qaida mastermind recruited British Muslims as suicide bombers". Number three is "homegrown and autonomous action by four British Muslims with no mastermind." But it is hypothesis eight that attracts my attention: "The four men were chosen or lured to be patsies in a classic 'false flag operation'."<br><br>Beneath the headline is an extract from a newspaper interview with a passenger on the Aldgate train, reporting that the metal around the hole in the bomb carriage was "pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train". But it is the next entry that I find most alarming. Highlighted in blue is the sentence: "Mark Honingsbaum [sic] also recorded several witnesses speaking of explosions under the floor of the train."<br><br>I click on the link and listen once again to my off-the-cuff recording from the Metropole hotel. Then I press the button and loop the broadcast a second time. In the internet age, it seems, some canards never die.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>that's a lot of words. the calls for a 7/7 investigation must be picking up steam, and vexing someone sorely. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jc@rigorousintuition>jc</A> at: 6/27/06 9:08 am<br></i>
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Re: guardian debunk 7/7 conspiracy

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:54 pm

Honigsbaum's article can be taken which ever way. It looks to me like he's promoting Dunne's theories and making a half assed attempt to debunk. What comes across strongly is lone searcher discovering things unimagined. I'm sure we've all felt a bit like that?<br><br>I haven't heard of Dunne before but the Antagonist is familiar and his research seems genuine.<br><br>I posted the full transcript of the insider's account here.. <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm23.showMessage?topicID=82.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...D=82.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> because I thought it said a lot more than the stories about it.<br><br>But really.. apart from all the details like explosives types and train times.. would four young lads waste their lives to blow up a few commuters when there were better targets in town (netanyahu, guiliani)? They could have left those "bombs" almost anywhere and killed more without killing themselves if killing was all they wanted. And lived to kill again.<br><br>It doesn't make sense<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: guardian debunk 7/7 conspiracy

Postby StarmanSkye » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:14 pm

"They could have left those "bombs" almost anywhere and killed more without killing themselves if killing was all they wanted. And lived to kill again.<br><br>It doesn't make sense"<br><br>***<br>BINGO!<br><br>Thanks for saying that so clearly.<br><br>That's what always weirded me out -- NO ONE (unless they're insane -- and then there wouldn't be 4 guys equally insane together) would explode a suicide bomb if there were OTHER, easily-acheivable ways to explode a bomb without sacrificing themselves. AFAIK, London wasn't under anywhere NEAR the kind of tight-security and crowd-control that Palestinians were. The London bombers could have left their backpacks or shopping-bags or briefcases or flower-bundle-disguised bombs in any of hundreds of locations (tho evading or fooling the city-loaded video cameras might have been a bit of a challenge; but then, they could have used disguises), if killing people were their prime aim.<br><br>But in that that they 'suicided' themselves, while having PLENTY of things going on in their lives, with plenty of opportunities and things they enjoyed and could do, etc, ie, they were FAR from the level of frustration and anxiety and depression and thoughts of revenge that most suicide bombers are highly-motivated by, makes this VERY bizarre. It's what makes me suspect they were patsies who didn't know what they were carrying -- maybe acting as drug couriers, or surreptitously 'helping' MI5 to bomb-test the underground, or ???<br><br>I'd guess, the lack of sufficiently-motivated genuine bombers is why the US and UK (and now Canada, too?) officials are apparently engaged in entrapment of unwitting patsies who are recruited for some idiotic impractical plot (like the Miami bunch) and busted for what essentially constitutes a thought crime (sworn-in by an Al Qaeda pretender???? How DUMB! How are they gonna make THAT stick?)<br><br>The wonder is how apparently dumbed-down people are who can't see thru such silly, amateur trickery. A real tribute to our dumbed-down public 'edjukashun' system alright.<br><br>Thank GOD they didn't kill the love of reading and pursuit of knowledge out of all of us!<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Re: guardian debunk 7/7 conspiracy

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:24 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The wonder is how apparently dumbed-down people are who can't see thru such silly, amateur trickery. A real tribute to our dumbed-down public 'edjukashun' system alright.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I think most of us know but most of us can't admit it. Are we being mosted again? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: guardian debunk 7/7 conspiracy

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:02 pm

It's funny.<br><br>They bought round trip tix. Why?<br><br>They left a bunch more bombs in their car truck. Why? For whom?<br><br>When, at the time, I pointed out that Western-types simply don't knowingly commit to suicide missions, I was directed to this story: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2003/Details+of+April+30-+2003+Tel+Aviv+suicide+bombing.htm">www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Govern...ombing.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> by some diehard OCT supporters.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>On April 30, 2003, a suicide terrorist blew himself up at the entrance to Mike's Place, a pub/cafe on the Tel Aviv promenade. Three civilians were murdered, and over 50 were wounded in the attack.<br><br>The attack was perpetrated by Asif Muhammad Hanif, 22, a British citizen. <br><br>A second British citizen, Omar Khan Sharif, 27, married, a resident of Derby, who was also due to have perpetrated a suicide attack, fled the scene. Khan Sharif attempted to detonate the bomb in his possession but the bomb failed to explode. He fled the scene after discarding the bomb. It cannot be ruled out that he was injured by the explosion of the detonator. During his flight, Khan Sharif struggled with a security guard at the David Intercontinental Hotel as he tried to snatch the latter's ID. Khan Sharif's body was positively identified on May 19, 2003, after having washed ashore on the Tel Aviv beachfront on May 12.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>One guy blows up and what does his friend, the other "suicide bomber" do? He doesn't blow himself up. He doesn't run away. No, the first thing he does is remove the explosive belt he's wearing and toss it as far away as possible. Next thing we know, his body washes ashore.<br><br>Then the Mossad itself connects the 7/7 London bombing with this operation, even while Brit investigators are still talking about C4 plastic explosives being used: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3111121,00.html">www.ynetnews.com/articles...21,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>London, Tel Aviv blasts connected<br><br>German newspaper: Explosive material used by British terrorist who blew himself up on Tel Aviv beachfront in 2003 very likely the same as that used by terrorists who staged London attacks last week, Mossad tells Brits<br><br>TEL AVIV – The terror attack in London last week may be tied to a suicide bombing on Tel Aviv's beachfront in April 2003, German newspaper Bild am Sonntag reported Monday. According to the paper, Mossad officials informed British security authorities that the explosive material used in the Tel Aviv attack on Mike’s Place pub was apparently also utilized to stage the series of bombings in London on Thursday.<br><br>Moreover, the Mossad office in London received advance notice about the attacks, but only six minutes before the first blast, the paper reports. As a result, it was impossible to take any action to prevent the blasts. "They reached us too late for us to do something about it," a Mossad source is quoted as saying.<br><br>According to the German report, the Mossad relayed an analysis of the explosives used in the Mike's Place attack to British security officials. Mossad sources are quoted as saying there is "high likelihood" the explosives used in Tel Aviv were the same ones used in London.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Could this stuff get any more obvious?<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=stickdog99>stickdog99</A> at: 6/27/06 6:33 pm<br></i>
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Re: guardian debunk 7/7 conspiracy

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:09 pm

Can you make plastic explosives in your bathtub?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=356259&in_page_id=1770">www.dailymail.co.uk/pages...ge_id=1770</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Police are today still trying to establish the type of explosives used in the London bombings, which killed at least 56 people.<br><br>Forensic experts are scrutinising the four blast sites to determine the exact make-up of the substance and to see whether it can be linked to the home-made explosives found at a so-called "bomb factory" at a property in Leeds.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Early reports suggested the bombers had used a military plastic explosive during the attacks on the capital's transport network.<br><br>It was later claimed that police had found acetone peroxide - a highly volatile mixture also known as "Mother of Satan" or TATP - in a bath during a raid on a property in Leeds.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>A security source said it appeared that home-made explosives had been found at an address in Leeds - thought to be a flat in Alexandra Grove in the Hyde Park area of the city.<br><br>However, the source said police were still carrying out tests to establish its exact make-up and to see whether there was any link to the substance used by the four London bombers. <p></p><i></i>
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Terror Expert: London Bomber Was Working For MI5

Postby jc » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:26 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2006/270606londonbomber.htm">www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2006/270606londonbomber.htm</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Khan used as informant for security services<br><br>Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | June 27 2006<br><br>A noted terror expert has told the BBC that Mohammed Siddique Khan, the alleged ringleader of the 7/7 London bombings, was working for British intelligence agency MI5 as an informant at the time of the attacks.<br><br>Charles Shoebridge is a 12-year veteran detective of the London Metropolitan Police, a former graduate of the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, and now a broadcaster and writer on terrorism in the UK.<br><br>Shoebridge told the BBC Newshour program that from the evidence little else can be assumed other than that Khan was working for British intelligence.<br><br>"The amount of information coming out and the quality of information coming out. The fact that that has been so consistently overlooked it would appear by the security service MI5, to me suggests really only one of two options."<br><br>"Either, a) we've got a level of incompetence that would be unusual even for the security services. But b) possibly, and this is a possibility, that this man Khan may even have been working as an informant for the security service."<br><br>"It is difficult otherwise to see how it can be that they've so covered his tracks in the interim."<br><br>During our coverage of the London bombings we outlined how the attack was most likely constructed, using the patsies, described as nice guys with families and good jobs, in the capacity of role players testing security on the London Underground.<br><br>This meshes with the inconceivable coincidence of exercises which drilled the same targets being attacked at the same time being conducted by Visor Consultants and eyewitness reports suggesting the accused displayed no behavior conducive with suicide bombers.<br><br>The alleged bombers bought return train tickets, left pay-and-display valid tickets on their cars in Luton, and their movements captured on CCTV gave no indications that they were nervous about their imminent deaths. Even Metropolitan Police investigators now believe that the bombers were dupes set up by somebody else and didn't know they were carrying live explosives.<br><br>7/7 links with British intelligence agencies don't end with Khan. Terror expert John Loftus told Fox News' Dayside show that alleged London bombing mastermind Haroon Rashid Aswat was an MI6 intelligence asset that British security helped protect and hide before the bombings.<br><br>Recent media reports concerning Khan's movements have brought to light evidence that Khan's Honda Accord was bugged by MI5 prior to the bombings. Though denied by the Metropolitan Police, this would again sync with the supposition that Khan was doing the bidding of British intelligence when four bombs ripped apart three trains and a bus on July 7, killing 52 and injuring more than 770.<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://prisonplanet.com/audio/270606khan.mp3">shoebridge beeb interview</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jc@rigorousintuition>jc</A> at: 6/27/06 8:29 pm<br></i>
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