Tom Cruise, Scientology and Der Spiegel

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Tom Cruise, Scientology and Der Spiegel

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Fri May 20, 2005 12:37 am

Some fascinating stuff here, with Cruise and Spielberg promoting War of the Worlds, and the Spiegel correspondent hitting hard on Scientology, and taking no shit:<br><br>SPIEGEL: We visited one of your locations near Los Angeles and were amazed to find a fully staffed tent of the Scientology organization right next to the food tents for the journalists and extras.<br><br>Cruise: What were you amazed about?<br><br>SPIEGEL: Why do you go so extremely public about your personal convictions?<br><br>Cruise: I believe in freedom of speech. I felt honored to have volunteer Scientology ministers on the set. They were helping the crew. When I'm working on a movie, I do anything I can to help the people I'm spending time with. I believe in communication.<br><br>SPIEGEL: The tent of a sect at someone's working place still seems somewhat strange to us. Mr. Spielberg, did that tent strike you as unusual?<br><br>Spielberg: I saw it as an information tent. No one was compelled to frequent it, but it was available for anybody who had an open mind and was curious about someone else's belief system.<br><br>Cruise:The volunteer Scientology ministers were there to help the sick and injured. People on the set appreciated that. I have absolutely nothing against talking about my beliefs. But I do so much more. We live in a world where people are on drugs forever. Where even children get drugged. Where crimes against humanity are so extreme that most people turn away in horror and dismay. Those are the things that I care about. I don't care what someone believes. I don't care what nationality they are. But if someone wants to get off drugs, I can help them. If someone wants to learn how to read, I can help them. If someone doesn't want to be a criminal anymore, I can give them tools that can better their life. You have no idea how many people want to know what Scientology is.<br><br>SPIEGEL: Do you see it as your job to recruit new followers for Scientology?<br><br>Cruise: I'm a helper. For instance, I myself have helped hundreds of people get off drugs. In Scientology, we have the only successful drug rehabilitation program in the world. It's called Narconon.<br><br>SPIEGEL: That's not correct. Yours is never mentioned among the recognized detox programs. Independent experts warn against it because it is rooted in pseudo science.<br><br>Cruise: You don't understand what I am saying. It's a statistically proven fact that there is only one successful drug rehabilitation program in the world. Period.<br><br>SPIEGEL: With all due respect, we doubt that. Mr. Cruise, you made studio executives, for example from Paramount, tour Scientology's "Celebrity Center" in Hollywood. Are you trying to extend Scientology's influence in Hollywood?<br><br>Cruise: I just want to help people. I want everyone to do well.<br><br>...<br><br>Spiegel: Mr. Cruise, as you know, Scientology has been under federal surveillance in Germany. Scientology is not considered a religion there, but rather an exploitative cult with totalitarian tendencies. <br><br>Cruise: The surveillance is nothing like as strict anymore. Any you know why? Because the intelligence authorities never found anything. Because there was nothing to find. We've won over 50 court cases in Germany. And it's not true that everyone in Germany supports that line against us. Whenever I go to Germany, I have incredible experiences. I always meet very generous and extraordinary people. A minority wants to hate -- okay.<br><br>SPIEGEL: There is a difference between hate and having a critical perspective.<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,353577,00.html" target="top">service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,353577,00.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Scientology

Postby professorpan » Fri May 20, 2005 1:15 am

I always wonder why journalists avoid asking some really obvious questions, like:<br><br>"<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Mr. Cruise, do you really believe -- as Scientology suggests -- that clusters of 2,500 alien intelligences, or "body thetans," live in each one of us and control us?"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Cruise [laughing nervously]: "I'm not sure what you're talking about..."<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"But surely, Mr. Cruise, you know about the Galactic ruler, Xenu, who brought humans to Earth (known as Teegeeack in those days), froze them, and then nuked them, freeing the thetans. Those thetans then clustered in our human bodies -- including yours, until you became clear."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Cruise: "I'm really sorry, but I have to cut this interview short..." <p></p><i></i>
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Nevertheless ....

Postby maggrwaggr » Fri May 20, 2005 1:42 am

that "journalist" was about a zillion times more hard-hitting (if you can call a celebrity interview hard-hitting) than ANY whoring piece of shit who calls himself a "journalist" in the United States.<br><br>And I know people who have worked with Tom Cruise and they say he's a major asshole. <p></p><i></i>
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Steve Fishman Scientology saga

Postby professorpan » Fri May 20, 2005 2:08 am

Some might not remember the Steve Fishman saga, which is posted here:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.xs4all.nl/~fishman/fable.htm">www.xs4all.nl/~fishman/fable.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>A couple of juicy excerpts:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>At the very center of these "Fishman affidavit" copyright infringement raids is a super secret, (highly disavowed by Scientology) document called OT 8. In the OT 8 document which defectors claim to be authored by Scientology's deceased founder, L Ron Hubbard, the highest initiates of Scientology are instructed by Hubbard that Hubbard really is Lucifer the Antichrist.<br><br>In this document Hubbard goes on to declare to Scientology's highest initiates that Lucifer has really been unfairly maligned by Christian churches and it is really Christ who is the evil and Lucifer who is good. Hubbard then goes on to say that Christ was really a pedophile and child molester and that Hubbard will soon return to human form from the afterlife as a powerful politician to lead the world into a new era. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><br>In Scientology there's a heavy emphasis on confessions. The celebrities get hooked into telling their "crimes" under the guise of obtaining emotional guilt relief. Great efforts are made to get the celebrities to confess all of their sins, all of their crimes, all of their sexual habits. Scientology then records and in some cases, videotapes these confessions.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><br><br>The list of Scientology celebrities is particularly fun to scan. Some standouts (some of whom are joined briefly and then split -- noted by a designation of "out"):<br><br>Beck (I just read this in the NYT a few weeks ago)<br>Charles Manson, out (although the church tried to cover that up)<br>Greta Van Susteren<br>Peggy Lipton (Twin Peaks), out<br>Lamia Khashoggi (wife of Saudi Arms Dealer Adnan Khashoggie)<br>Neil Gaiman<br>Nancy Cartwright, voice of Bart Simpson (say it isn't so!)<br>William S. Burroughs (out)<br>Kirstie Alley<br>Willie B. Wilson (oil-billionaire and a crony of former president George Bush -- ya just KNEW there had to be a Bush connection, didn't ya!)<br><br>And the Charlie connection is chilling:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Scientology literature was also said to be found at the ranch when Manson and his family were captured. There were hints that he later got involved with other OTO groups or may have joined the Process, the sex and Satan group which originally broke away from Scientology.<br><br>It is interesting to note that the OTO is commonly considered the mother cult of Satanism to western society. Scientology was derived in significant part from the OTO. The Process came in significant part from Scientology. Another escapee-group from the Process was the notorious Son of Sam cult.<br><br>The Son of Sam cult had cells that spread all over the USA. Since 1976 about 15-20 cult killings were committed by the sect in the New York-area, especially of young girls. The leaders in New York were among others, David Berkowitz and the brothers John and Michael Cam. They killed "to bring this era to an end." At David's home the police found the telephone number of the Fort Harrison Hotel in Clearwater, Florida, Scientology's main secret level training center.<br><br>David explained to the police, that the Son of Sam cult was an escapee from Scientology, though, there is no proof of David personally being close to Scientology. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Going to add some meaningless perceptions

Postby Project Willow » Fri May 20, 2005 4:56 am

Tom Cruise has always struck me as being a multiple. Not because I see switching or anything, it's just everytime I see him, I feel like he has no Core, he is so disconnected from his self. He reminds me of many people I grew up with who were severely damaged by the cult. It's amazing what he has been able to do, if my perception is correct. <br>One key characteristic, and the reason he wasn't a good choice for the Ann Rice movie, a disconnect from a kind of natural, masculine confidence. (I don't know if that's an accurate enough description of what I mean.)<br>At the very least he comes across to me as deeply wounded and putting on a show. <p>PW</p><i></i>
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Re: Going to add some meaningless perceptions

Postby sunny » Fri May 20, 2005 10:21 am

Willow, you are so right! I used to think that my feelings about Cruise were a result of my "Gaydar" working: you know, that lack of sexual "pull" you get from gay men.But it is much more;as if he were asexual.Frankly, I get the same feeling from GWB.<br>I don't know much about Scientology-the only back-story I ever remember getting was from a conspiracy themed radio program years ago, in which they talked about Scientologists infiltrating the textbook industry and pushing for national standardized testing of students..hmmm..<br>If anyone has a link to a reputable, comprehensive critique of the "religion" I would greatly appreciate it. <p></p><i></i>
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many links here

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Fri May 20, 2005 10:52 am

I know this isn't what you asked for sunny, but you may find this page a good resource for mainstream reporting on Scientology:<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rickross.com/groups/scientology.html" target="top">www.rickross.com/groups/scientology.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Bare-Faced Messiah

Postby wolf pauli » Fri May 20, 2005 1:54 pm

I was fascinated and mortified by Russell Miller's bio of Hubbard, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Bare-Faced Messiah</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. Page after page after page in the life of a deep-dyed, pathological liar. Utterly compelling and sick-making all in one. You can read it on line at<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm">www.clambake.org/archive/...mconte.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Yikes!<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Going to add some meaningless perceptions

Postby Project Willow » Fri May 20, 2005 3:39 pm

Sunny, Now I am remembering when the rumors came about about Cruise, thinking, oh, he's just completely repressed his sexuality because he's gay. Don't know, but sure is the same sort of thing.<br><br>Me too about GWB. Only it feels to me like he is stuck in a juvenile state, rather than completely missing it. <p>PW</p><i></i>
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Re: Going to add some meaningless perceptions

Postby FugitiveInitiate » Fri May 20, 2005 5:37 pm

Willow, I have had the same kind of perception about Cruise... he seems like a "shell" persona, a sort of blankness. Interesting you mentioned that. <p>"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein</p><i></i>
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Re: Going to add some meaningless perceptions

Postby heath7 » Fri May 20, 2005 5:47 pm

Cruise was going to be a priest before he went into acting, no shit. <p></p><i></i>
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Frank T.J. Mackey

Postby tabasco1776 » Fri May 20, 2005 6:52 pm

I have to agree that Tom Cruise has always seemed like a head-dead brainwashed shell to me, on screen and off. But there is one time - and one time only - when the veil of haze seems to momentarily clear from around him, and that's in <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Magnolia</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, where he seems a little TOO gleefully comfortable in the role of extreme misogynist Frank T.J. Mackey. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Frank T.J. Mackey

Postby Project Willow » Fri May 20, 2005 7:09 pm

oh, yeah, he was eerily good in that role. I love that movie, just love it, especially the shot of the painting/drawing near the end focusing on the line (something like) "but it really did happen", and then the final scenes between the cop and the survivor. <p>PW</p><i></i>
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