Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:36 am

BTW

In that entire comment I haven't said anything about what I think about this pandemic, its origins, the responses to it or the behaviour of some large corporations in response to it.

So have a look at all the assumptions and things you thought while you were reading it and realise they only exist in your head.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:13 am

Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:33 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » 27 Jan 2022 01:19 wrote:
@raggedlines
·
So, Malta is 86% fully vaccinated which is higher than Ireland and they are currently experiencing the highest death spike of the whole pandemic.
Are we...are we even pretending vaccines work anymore or are we just having a laugh at this stage?

Image
Image

Jan 26, 2022

https://twitter.com/raggedlines/status/ ... 61440?s=20


So malta has half a million people in its population.

Even tho that graph looks bad the numbers on the axis are deaths per million.

So less than four people died of COVID when that graph was at its highest point.

Despite the vaccination rates (86%) that leaves 14% unvaccinated. 14% of half a million+ is about 75000 people.

So four deaths in a day in that context is meaningless. That data is meaningless.


No, it's not meaningless. The chart goes back to April of 2020, so it's relative to Malta over a ~20 month period. Regardless of the actual death count, it's clear these shots have NOT LESSENED HARM.

And the Malta example is far from anomalous. Your comment would make some sense if Malta was an outlier.

It's not. And in other countries, the death counts are markedly higher relative to respective populations.

Let's see how these figures look as more time passes, eh?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby alloneword » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:00 am

UK, week 4:

Image

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... week-4.pdf

So that's all ages >18 now showing negative efficacy against 'infection'.

(Note: This is 'persons vaccinated with at least 3 doses (per 100,000)' vs. 'persons not vaccinated (per 100,000)' - persons with 1 or 2 doses for last week (wk 3) are shown here).
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:48 pm

alloneword » 28 Jan 2022 15:00 wrote:UK, week 4:

Image

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... week-4.pdf

So that's all ages >18 now showing negative efficacy against 'infection'.

(Note: This is 'persons vaccinated with at least 3 doses (per 100,000)' vs. 'persons not vaccinated (per 100,000)' - persons with 1 or 2 doses for last week (wk 3) are shown here).


And what about these data, Joe? Are these data meaningless as well?

Here's what's weird to me. These vaccines were sold to us as a means to severely reduce transmission, hospitalization, and death. We we all told that if we just did our part to get the vaccination rate above 60%, 70%, 80%, and then finally 90% that these vaccines would provide herd immunity and thus end COVID-19 pandemic restrictions once and for all.

But that's not what happened anywhere. Most of the most highly vaccinated populations have seen spikes in their case rates well after their vaccination rates exceeded 75%.

In fact, there seems to be no correlation whatsoever between vaccination rates and COVID-19-associated case, hospitalization, and death rates and there even seem to be strong signs of a clear positive correlation between vaccination rates and COVID-19 case rates as well as between vaccination rates and non-COVID-19-associated morbidities, hospitalization, and death rates in many localities.

I don't understand how any of these data (no matter how noisy or confounded) can be called "meaningless" in the face of the mandatory vaccination and booster policies the currently exist (or are currently being proposed) in much of the Western world, even in the face of incontrovertible data that omicron is no more severe to young healthy people than is influenza and that these vaccines can even promote the spread of omicron.

Can some of these data be questioned? Certainly. There are all sorts of noise and confounding factors in these data. Can some of the providers of anti-vaccine mandate propaganda be condemned for their other political stances? Certainly.

But what I don't understand is why. Why after we have seen no clearly discernible benefits from these vaccines, why when case rates are currently the highest they have been in many of the most highly vaccinated country, why are these data questioned rather than those data that purport to demonstrate the safety and efficacy of these vaccines? Why are so many informed people still suffering from so much confirmation bias regarding vaccine mandates?

Nobody here is arguing against anybody getting these vaccines. All we are doing is providing available information and editorial opinions (that may or may not be totally relevant in every case) and saying that people should be allowed to make informed decisions about these vaccines for themselves and their families.

Were authorities to have sold these vaccines to us for what they actually are (experimental gene therapies with uncertain safety profiles that confer temporary protection against severe COVID-19 outcomes), I would not have any problem with them. But they clearly shouldn't even be recommended, much less mandated, for healthy children or healthy young adults. Yet they are.

Why? I mean, the kindest explanation for this is well-meaning ignorance. But my rigorous intuition tells me that it goes way beyond that. How about yours?
Last edited by stickdog99 on Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:06 pm

And here's the other thing that I don't understand.

Even had these vaccines lived up to all of the official government and corporate media promises made on their behalf, I would still consider Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Brother QR-code-based restrictions of human rights to be among the most insidiously evil practices in recent human history.

How about you?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:08 pm

The Man of Mystery speaks. He is an enigma wrapped in a cloud of fragrant smoke inside a cosy rural retreat:

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:36 am wrote:BTW

In that entire comment I haven't said anything about what I think about this pandemic, its origins, the responses to it or the behaviour of some large corporations in response to it.

So have a look at all the assumptions and things you thought while you were reading it and realise they only exist in your head.


We're now on page 340 of Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread; we're a full two years into COUPVID-19: so please, at long last, condescend to share your thoughts "about this pandemic [sic], its origins, the responses to it or the behaviour of some large corporations in response to it", O Bodhidharma.

Because here's me, in my naivety, thinking you'd never ceased sharing your "thoughts", and that those "thoughts" have never been distinguishable from the edicts of governments and the charlatans they employ.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:23 pm

By the way, Australia's entire Northern Territory has half the population of Malta.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:17 pm

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:57 pm

Belligerent Savant » 29 Jan 2022 00:13 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:33 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » 27 Jan 2022 01:19 wrote:
@raggedlines
·
So, Malta is 86% fully vaccinated which is higher than Ireland and they are currently experiencing the highest death spike of the whole pandemic.
Are we...are we even pretending vaccines work anymore or are we just having a laugh at this stage?

Image
Image

Jan 26, 2022

https://twitter.com/raggedlines/status/ ... 61440?s=20


So malta has half a million people in its population.

Even tho that graph looks bad the numbers on the axis are deaths per million.

So less than four people died of COVID when that graph was at its highest point.

Despite the vaccination rates (86%) that leaves 14% unvaccinated. 14% of half a million+ is about 75000 people.

So four deaths in a day in that context is meaningless. That data is meaningless.


No, it's not meaningless. The chart goes back to April of 2020, so it's relative to Malta over a ~20 month period. Regardless of the actual death count, it's clear these shots have NOT LESSENED HARM.

And the Malta example is far from anomalous. Your comment would make some sense if Malta was an outlier.

It's not. And in other countries, the death counts are markedly higher relative to respective populations.

Let's see how these figures look as more time passes, eh?


Re the bolded bit...

I looked up when Malta rolled out their vaccines. It matches pretty much exactly the massive downward slope on the graph that follows the Feb '21 date.

So the graph itself supports the idea that these shots do lessen the actual harm. And you'd know this if you spent 10 minutes sussing the data out and seeing what else happened instead of just assuming some clown on twitter actually did that themselves.

You can't trust anything on twitter. On either side of this argument.

I'm not saying the shots lessened the harm either. I'm saying they correlate to a drop in the death rate going by the data that twitter user provided.

Which is opposite to what you are using to prove it. (Its almost as if people are doing this to discredit people who question the official narrative.)



You said this:

And the Malta example is far from anomalous. Your comment would make some sense if Malta was an outlier.

That Malta data doesn't show anything. You being fooled by the shape of the graph and ignoring the numbers on the axes, especially the one on the vertical line (y-axis) which shows the actual numbers of deaths in Malta are so low that they provide no meaningful information about whether or not vaccines do anything.

Either protective, not protective or worse.

The graph looks spectacular.

But those spectacular rises at the end simply mean this - one more person died every day or every second day from COVID in Malta than the day before.

So how can you claim those deaths (and the graph) say anything else about anything else? The numbers are tiny and the populations you are talking about are tens or hundreds of thousands higher.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:59 pm



Dude he claims a p value of 0.0!!! :fawked:
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:10 pm

stickdog99 » 29 Jan 2022 07:06 wrote:And here's the other thing that I don't understand.

Even had these vaccines lived up to all of the official government and corporate media promises made on their behalf, I would still consider Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Brother QR-code-based restrictions of human rights to be among the most insidiously evil practices in recent human history.

How about you?


Why should I answer that when you obviously haven't listened all the other times I have?

I've never used a QR code in a venue during this entire pandemic. Admittedly I live in the bush and don't get out alot. But still I haven't used it. I went shopping today in a butcher and supermarket in a local town. Didn't wear a mask or use a QR code. The few times earlier on when I was somewhere I had to use one I just pretended to.

But I did check the places I'd been against official transmission venues fairly regularly until NSW stopped doing it in November. I dunno if its back on or not.

I dunno about the most insidiously evil things in recent human history either. There are worse. Facebook for example.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:14 pm

stickdog99 » 29 Jan 2022 07:06 wrote:And here's the other thing that I don't understand.

Even had these vaccines lived up to all of the official government and corporate media promises made on their behalf, I would still consider Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Brother QR-code-based restrictions of human rights to be among the most insidiously evil practices in recent human history.

How about you?


One more point.

Bio'ntech or whatver they are called, who developed the Pfizer vaccine before the Big Pharma company moved in on it never claimed the vaccine would prevent transmission. At least as far as I remember anyway. They always said it would only protect against severe illness and death. Which it did.

Apart from that why should you, I or anyone else listen to the other government or corporate media promises?

I didn't before this so why should I start now?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:38 pm

MacCruiskeen » 29 Jan 2022 07:08 wrote:The Man of Mystery speaks. He is an enigma wrapped in a cloud of fragrant smoke inside a cosy rural retreat:

Joe Hillshoist » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:36 am wrote:BTW

In that entire comment I haven't said anything about what I think about this pandemic, its origins, the responses to it or the behaviour of some large corporations in response to it.

So have a look at all the assumptions and things you thought while you were reading it and realise they only exist in your head.


We're now on page 340 of Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread; we're a full two years into COUPVID-19: so please, at long last, condescend to share your thoughts "about this pandemic [sic], its origins, the responses to it or the behaviour of some large corporations in response to it", O Bodhidharma.

Because here's me, in my naivety, thinking you'd never ceased sharing your "thoughts", and that those "thoughts" have never been distinguishable from the edicts of governments and the charlatans they employ.


I rarely smoke any more. I use a vape. A German one actually. Made by a company called Storz and Bichel. But rural retreat is a fair call. I moved here in the 90s to escape any future pandemics or other SHTF moments. Among other things. We all make decisions. I chose to forgo the joys of city living so when something like this actually happened I'd be in a better position to deal with it. It cracks me up that you're shitty about that. Of all the things you could choose to be miffed by.

Because here's me, in my naivety, thinking you'd never ceased sharing your "thoughts", and that those "thoughts" have never been distinguishable from the edicts of governments and the charlatans they employ.


Mate its not my fault you're an idiot who is incapable of basic comprehension. You're the one to blame for thinking that.

The only official policy I agreed on was lockdowns, altho I pretty much ignored them when I had to do something (so i'm a hypocrite.) As did most people. Not that they stopped us doing something anyway. Here and in most places they weren't as draconian as people make out. Its a beat up. Once, in the very first lockdown in March or April 2020 two motorbike coips tried to follow me down a dirt road as I went to turn on a water pump. That's about it for trying to enforce restrictions. I dunno if they actually followed me or not, they certainly didn't make it to the pump shed.

Certainly Dan Andrews came across as a bit of a fuckwit and I personally wondered about some Victorian lockdowns but at the same time nearly everyone I knew in Victoria was happy to go along with them. There are no lockdowns in Victoria now, during this Omicron outbreak but people are still behaving in the same way they would have during those lock downs. Cos they choose to. The only restriction on activity in Victoria last time I checked was (LOL) a ban on dancing in venues. (And if you can't laugh at that then you're a sad old bastard.)

If you're also referring to the existence of the virus, any other virus, bacteria, the fact vaccines have lowered death and hospitalisation rates (as people keep showing here, even when they think they aren't,) and ... well that's about it ... as the edicts of governments and the charlatans they employ well ... I dunno what to say.

Those things are obviously real and true. And would be independent of any government edicts.

One more thing. I'll never forget you said I support police brutality. Its lucky for you you're on the other side of the world but if I'm ever in Germany I'm try and track you down so we can have a conversation about that.
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Get fucked.

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:00 am

stickdog99 » 29 Jan 2022 06:48 wrote:
alloneword » 28 Jan 2022 15:00 wrote:UK, week 4:

Image

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... week-4.pdf

So that's all ages >18 now showing negative efficacy against 'infection'.

(Note: This is 'persons vaccinated with at least 3 doses (per 100,000)' vs. 'persons not vaccinated (per 100,000)' - persons with 1 or 2 doses for last week (wk 3) are shown here).


And what about these data, Joe? Are these data meaningless as well?

Here's what's weird to me. These vaccines were sold to us as a means to severely reduce transmission, hospitalization, and death. We we all told that if we just did our part to get the vaccination rate above 60%, 70%, 80%, and then finally 90% that these vaccines would provide herd immunity and thus end COVID-19 pandemic restrictions once and for all.

But that's not what happened anywhere. Most of the most highly vaccinated populations have seen spikes in their case rates well after their vaccination rates exceeded 75%.

In fact, there seems to be no correlation whatsoever between vaccination rates and COVID-19-associated case, hospitalization, and death rates and there even seem to be strong signs of a clear positive correlation between vaccination rates and COVID-19 case rates as well as between vaccination rates and non-COVID-19-associated morbidities, hospitalization, and death rates in many localities.

I don't understand how any of these data (no matter how noisy or confounded) can be called "meaningless" in the face of the mandatory vaccination and booster policies the currently exist (or are currently being proposed) in much of the Western world, even in the face of incontrovertible data that omicron is no more severe to young healthy people than is influenza and that these vaccines can even promote the spread of omicron.

Can some of these data be questioned? Certainly. There are all sorts of noise and confounding factors in these data. Can some of the providers of anti-vaccine mandate propaganda be condemned for their other political stances? Certainly.

But what I don't understand is why. Why after we have seen no clearly discernible benefits from these vaccines, why when case rates are currently the highest they have been in many of the most highly vaccinated country, why are these data questioned rather than those data that purport to demonstrate the safety and efficacy of these vaccines? Why are so many informed people still suffering from so much confirmation bias regarding vaccine mandates?

Nobody here is arguing against anybody getting these vaccines. All we are doing is providing available information and editorial opinions (that may or may not be totally relevant in every case) and saying that people should be allowed to make informed decisions about these vaccines for themselves and their families.

Were authorities to have sold these vaccines to us for what they actually are (experimental gene therapies with uncertain safety profiles that confer temporary protection against severe COVID-19 outcomes), I would not have any problem with them. But they clearly shouldn't even be recommended, much less mandated, for healthy children or healthy young adults. Yet they are.

Why? I mean, the kindest explanation for this is well-meaning ignorance. But my rigorous intuition tells me that it goes way beyond that. How about yours?



You fixated on the word meaningless didn't you. Even tho I specifically explained why it was in that particular case. Did you even read why I think that? I get that you're traumatised by this whole thing and that's why you're carrying on like a fuckwit but take a step back and stop taking my criticism of the data you post from other sources as a personal attack on or criticism of you.

Its juvenile.

(BTW That is a personal criticism of you, cos I'm pissed off at you. You said I was the sort oftperson who'd call the cops on you for not wearing a mask at one stage. Thanks for that arsehole. Get fucked.)

Were authorities to have sold these vaccines to us for what they actually are (experimental gene therapies with uncertain safety profiles that confer temporary protection against severe COVID-19 outcomes), I would not have any problem with them.

This happened here. It was pretty clear to me and everyone I know.

But they clearly shouldn't even be recommended, much less mandated, for healthy children or healthy young adults. Yet they are.

Why? I mean, the kindest explanation for this is well-meaning ignorance. But my rigorous intuition tells me that it goes way beyond that. How about yours?


I think its incredibly fucken stupid or (more likely) the result of corruption. My kids aren't getting an mRNA vaccine. BTW - i know you think the opposite about me so get fucked. In case I forgot to mention it earlier.

Finally...

But that's not what happened anywhere. Most of the most highly vaccinated populations have seen spikes in their case rates well after their vaccination rates exceeded 75%.

Until Omicron came along what happened was the opposite of what you described. You're suffering from confirmation bias. Since its come along vaccines and unvaccinated people with prior immunity are not protected.

Because its evolved in the same way every other corona virus that is endemic in humans has.

And honestly, if I'd known Omicron was gonna come along a couple of months later I wouldn't have bothered getting vaccinated.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby conniption » Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:39 am

Michael P Senger
@MichaelPSenger


SNAKE OIL: HOW XI JINPING SHUT DOWN THE WORLD

Through propaganda and fraud, the CCP under Xi Jinping transformed the snake oil of lockdowns into “science,” the greatest crime of the 21st century to date. This is the story of how he did it, and why. 1/

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https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/stat ... 8324380674
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